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Thread: whether we can live the life of another person?

  1. #1 whether we can live the life of another person? 
    xma
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    whether we can live the life of another person?


    for any discretization accuracy obtain a finite number of possible variants for the lifetime of civilization / universe.




    for example, there is an upper limit on what we can see on the monitor for a finite interval or record a digital camera or microphone, including if they record what sees and hears people.


    also there are limits to what people can write on your computer (etc. all posts, messages).


    furthermore there is a limit on the number of possible changes in sequences of bits in a computer. or another, all computers in the world.






    so, variants can't be repeated periodically not, within the meaning of that its can't be unique, because their set is bounded, otherwise its will ultimately empty because unique variants reduce to zero the bounded set.




    in another way, for absolute precision, the universe in each moment have certain state which existence proves that it can be in this state at all (periodically), but infinite number of a states can't be periodically exists, that means that number of a states is limited.




    so, this means that our lifes are repeated periodically absolutely.


    but, can we live the life which is absolute (or in some discrete precision) copy of a life another person ?


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  3. #2  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    but, can we live the life which is absolute (or in some discrete precision) copy of a life another person ?
    No because our own way of thinking will always change things around.


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    (or in some discrete precision)
    That leaves it kind of open. I mean that you could set the degree of precision at almost any level you desire. You could decide that not riding in cars and not eating pork was living the life of Moses.
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    (or in some discrete precision)
    That leaves it kind of open. I mean that you could set the degree of precision at almost any level you desire. You could decide that not riding in cars and not eating pork was living the life of Moses.
    I mean in precision starting from precision digital recording from eyes and ears by the best digital cameras and microphones that we have.
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  6. #5  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    You could decide that not riding in cars and not eating pork was living the life of Moses.
    It is not generally known, but Moses had an Aston Martin DB5.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    so, this means that our lifes are repeated periodically absolutely.
    No it doesn't.
    The fact is that even if the number of possibilities is finite, it's an extremely large number.
    The number of human beings, compared to that number, is minuscule.
    Therefore it does not necessarily follow that "our lifes are repeated periodically absolutely".
    The possibilities vastly outweigh the actualities.
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  8. #7  
    xma
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    what's the difference how many people ?

    even if there was one person, for the finite number of possibilities we have the BOUNDED (!!!) set of all possible variants.
    and only (!!!) variants from this set can be exists. because unique variants devastate this bounded set and than no variants are stay in it.

    so, what's possibilities can exceed this limits ? no such possibilities.

    the universe is eternal, so any (!) time limited intervals are achievabled. do you have problems with it ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    so, this means that our lifes are repeated periodically absolutely.
    No it doesn't.
    The fact is that even if the number of possibilities is finite, it's an extremely large number.
    The number of human beings, compared to that number, is minuscule.
    Therefore it does not necessarily follow that "our lifes are repeated periodically absolutely".
    The possibilities vastly outweigh the actualities.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    what's the difference how many people ?
    I have already explained what "the difference" is.
    Your "conclusion" is erroneous.

    the universe is eternal
    So what? That's only "trivially" true.
    Life isn't eternal.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    the universe is eternal
    How do you know that?
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    what's the difference how many people ?
    I have already explained what "the difference" is.
    Your "conclusion" is erroneous.
    for the finite number of possibilities my conclusion are mathematically correct ideally. it will confirm any mathematician.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    the universe is eternal
    So what? That's only "trivially" true.
    Life isn't eternal.
    but we (our essence) are eternal.
    civilization are born and disappear and this processes are eternal.
    or do you think that you disapear at all ? if so, that means that your place in kindergarten.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    but we (our essence) are eternal.
    How do you know that?
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    for the finite number of possibilities my conclusion are mathematically correct ideally. it will confirm any mathematician
    Again: so what?
    Your "conclusion" is, as shown, erroneous.

    but we (our essence) are eternal
    Speculation.
    Unsupported claim.

    civilization are born and disappear and this processes are eternal.
    Speculation.
    Unsupported claim.

    if so, that mean that your place in kindergarten.
    I see. You make claims that you can't be bothered to (or simply can't) support and you decide that I should be in kindergarten.

    Can you provide ANY evidence that "our essence is eternal"?
    (Can you provide any evidence that we have an "essence"?)
    Can you provide ANY evidence that ANY process - especially one involving life - is eternal?
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    the universe is eternal
    How do you know that?
    do you think that we are disappear at all at some time and never at all will write messages to each other ? if so, your place in kindergarten too.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    do you think that we are disappear at all at some time and never at all will write messages to each other ? if so, your place in kindergarten too.
    We die, that's one way we "disappear".
    What "messages" are you talking about?
    Can you, or can you not, support your claim?
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  16. #15  
    xma
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    so, kill yourself if you think that you are never at all will be in the universe. what are the differences for you ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    for the finite number of possibilities my conclusion are mathematically correct ideally. it will confirm any mathematician
    Again: so what?
    Your "conclusion" is, as shown, erroneous.

    but we (our essence) are eternal
    Speculation.
    Unsupported claim.

    civilization are born and disappear and this processes are eternal.
    Speculation.
    Unsupported claim.

    if so, that mean that your place in kindergarten.
    I see. You make claims that you can't be bothered to (or simply can't) support and you decide that I should be in kindergarten.

    Can you provide ANY evidence that "our essence is eternal"?
    (Can you provide any evidence that we have an "essence"?)
    Can you provide ANY evidence that ANY process - especially one involving life - is eternal?
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    the universe is eternal
    How do you know that?
    do you think that we are disappear at all at some time and never at all will write messages to each other ? if so, your place in kindergarten too.
    I am not sure what that means. Could you answer the question.

    And, although it is not really relevant, I think that when you die you cease to exist. That is because there is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Which is why I asked why you believe we are eternal.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  18. #17  
    xma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    do you think that we are disappear at all at some time and never at all will write messages to each other ? if so, your place in kindergarten too.
    What "messages" are you talking about?
    forum messages stupid.
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  19. #18  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    forum messages stupid.
    Do you think people continue to post on the forum after they are dead?
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    forum messages stupid.
    Do you think people continue to post on the forum after they are dead?
    Look in the trash can, some posters (the OP here is a good example) are clearly brain dead.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    so, kill yourself if you think that you are never at all will be in the universe. what are the differences for you ?
    Does this mean you agree that you cannot actually support your (ridiculous) claim that "our essence is eternal"?
    Presumably you find it easier to change subject than to back up your assertions and address the topic that YOU raised.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    forum messages stupid.
    Ah I see.
    You can't be bothered to be precise and yet I'm the stupid one.
    Dead people don't write forum messages.
    People no longer on the forum don't post messages.
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  23. #22  
    xma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Can you, or can you not, support your claim?
    do you really think that I will be to proving somebody that we live in some civilizations periodically in the universe?
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  24. #23  
    xma
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    I think after burn in this civilization or in the one of the next they are write new posts. is this not obviously ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    forum messages stupid.
    Do you think people continue to post on the forum after they are dead?
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    do you really think that I will be to proving somebody that we live in some civilizations periodically in the universe?
    Perhaps you've forgotten what you actually claimed.
    I'll remind you:
    but we (our essence) are eternal
    civilization are born and disappear and this processes are eternal.
    Post #10.

    Neither of these claims appear to have any foundation in fact.
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  26. #25  
    xma
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    I'am not think that is ridiculous because people poured metal throat each other periodically and so on. is it funny for you ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    so, kill yourself if you think that you are never at all will be in the universe. what are the differences for you ?
    Does this mean you agree that you cannot actually support your (ridiculous) claim that "our essence is eternal"?
    Presumably you find it easier to change subject than to back up your assertions and address the topic that YOU raised.
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    I think after burn in this civilization or in the one of the next they are write new posts. is this not obviously ?
    No. Perhaps you could provide some evidence. Which of the posters on the forum currently are already dead?
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    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    I'am not think that is ridiculous because people poured metal throat each other periodically and so on. is it funny for you ?
    Are you using automatic translation software? It is producing some very surreal results.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  29. #28  
    xma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    forum messages stupid.
    Ah I see.
    You can't be bothered to be precise and yet I'm the stupid one.
    Dead people don't write forum messages.
    So, where do I said that DEAD people writing a forum messages ? are you crazy ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    People no longer on the forum don't post messages.
    Only until they were born and grew up .
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    I'am not think that is ridiculous because people poured metal throat each other periodically and so on. is it funny for you ?
    What does this have to do with what's under discussion?
    Or is it an(other) attempt to change the subject and avoid supporting your false claims?
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    So, where do I said that DEAD people writing a forum messages ?
    It is hard to understand what you are saying. What did you mean by this:
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    do you think that we are disappear at all at some time and never at all will write messages to each other ?
    It sounds like you are saying that people will never die and will keep posting forum messages.

    So, do you agree that people die? And that is the end of them?
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    So, where do I said that DEAD people writing a forum messages ? are you crazy ?
    No, but it's becoming apparent that you are.
    You wrote: do you think that we are disappear at all at some time and never at all will write messages to each other ?
    I pointed out that dying is a form of disappearing.
    What did you mean by it?
    How does someone NOT being dead but still posting support your claim that "our essence is eternal"?
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  33. #32  
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    liquid metal is poured into the humans throats for counterfeiting in the Middle Ages.

    So, for addition, there is no guarantee that you will be not born in Africa in your next life and it is not enough places for everyone on the our earth.

    so, Welcome to Africa or maximum in Middle Ages on the other planets. this is real life in real univese, but not your fairy tales .

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    I'am not think that is ridiculous because people poured metal throat each other periodically and so on. is it funny for you ?
    Are you using automatic translation software? It is producing some very surreal results.
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  34. #33  
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    Clueless rambling insanity...
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    liquid metal is poured into the humans throats for counterfeiting in the Middle Ages.
    Nothing to do with the topic. Completely irrelevant.

    So, for addition, there is no guarantee that you will be not born in Africa in your next life
    And another unsupported claim.
    There is no actual evidence that there's such a thing as a "next life".

    so, Welcome to Africa or maximum in Middle Ages on the other planets. this is real life in real univese, but not your fairy tales .
    No, you're just posting nonsense now.
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  36. #35  
    xma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    So, do you agree that people die?
    yes, do you have some doubt about it ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    And that is the end of them?
    no, of course. your essence can't be divided. you can't control hands of another people, only yours.
    end only while not born again.
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    no, of course. your essence can't be divided. you can't control hands of another people, only yours.
    end only while not born again.
    How do you know this "essence" exists? And please provide some evidence rather than more incoherent rambling.

    And how you know you are born again? And please provide some evidence rather than more incoherent rambling.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  38. #37  
    xma
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    same people dieing and burning and write some posts again in the universe. do you see some problems in it ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    So, where do I said that DEAD people writing a forum messages ? are you crazy ?
    No, but it's becoming apparent that you are.
    You wrote: do you think that we are disappear at all at some time and never at all will write messages to each other ?
    I pointed out that dying is a form of disappearing.
    What did you mean by it?
    How does someone NOT being dead but still posting support your claim that "our essence is eternal"?
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  39. #38  
    xma
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    do you feel pain or your body ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    no, of course. your essence can't be divided. you can't control hands of another people, only yours.
    end only while not born again.
    How do you know this "essence" exists? And please provide some evidence rather than more incoherent rambling.

    And how you know you are born again? And please provide some evidence rather than more incoherent rambling.
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  40. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    same people dieing and burning and write some posts again in the universe. do you see some problems in it ?
    Of course I see problems with it.
    Perhaps you haven't noticed that this is a SCIENCE forum: there is no evidence to support your claim.
    Please stop posting nonsense.
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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    do you feel pain or your body ?
    How is that relevant? (And no, although you are making me feel a a pain somewhere else)
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  42. #41  
    xma
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    ok, I got the proof (as upper limit)

    suppose, all the universe consists only of matter and you are part only of it. but if repeated the atomic rearrangements in your body this only be you and nobody else
    in your current body you can another DNA , another face (neoplasty or hormone Therapy), so how many atomic rearrangements can recreate you ?

    so, is this enough to you to agree that we live not once ?

    while if another now recreate your body down to atomic rearrangements you is not there, which may indicate only that you (your essence) is not a material object.
    Last edited by xma; March 12th, 2014 at 01:14 PM.
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  43. #42  
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    No, it's gibberish.
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  44. #43  
    xma
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    No, it's gibberish.
    so , if you said this, may be can you proof that body (or other objects) can't repeated down to atomic rearrangements ?
    or, in another case, your words are just a
    guff.
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  45. #44  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    This sounds like the standard crank "prove me wrong" gambit, but as this post is as incomprehensible as all the others who knows (or cares).
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  46. #45  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    ok, I got the proof (as upper limit)

    suppose, all the universe consists only of matter ...
    Let me stop you right there. No.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  47. #46  
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    forum messages stupid.
    Do you think people continue to post on the forum after they are dead?
    Look in the trash can, some posters (the OP here is a good example) are clearly brain dead.
    all I could find in the trash can was containers, paper towels, and a few stale slices of pizza. But you're right, some people on this forum are just plain stupid.
    "MODERATOR NOTE : We don't entertain trolls here, not even in the trash can. Banned." -Markus Hanke
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  48. #47  
    xma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    ok, I got the proof (as upper limit)

    suppose, all the universe consists only of matter ...
    Let me stop you right there. No.
    meant suppose, that a person has no soul and it consists entirely of existence of the universe.
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  49. #48  
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    a person has no soul and it consists entirely of existence of the universe.
    I don't know what you're saying.

    What I would say is that ...

    a) there is no such thing as the soul, and ...

    b) yes! We are all made of stardust and that is wonderful.
    Strange and LuciDreaming like this.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
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  50. #49  
    xma
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    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    a person has no soul and it consists entirely of existence of the universe.
    I don't know what you're saying.

    What I would say is that ...

    a) there is no such thing as the soul, and ...

    b) yes! We are all made of stardust and that is wonderful.
    you say that you (your essence) consists only from stardust and you have no soul. so, if the atomic rearrangements which is you is meeting again in the universe that be you and only you. so, that mean that you live once not in the universe. but in another case, if duplicate your body down to atomic rearrangements that was not you . this is mean that you consists not only from stardust and you have a soul . what is not correct ?
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  51. #50  
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    This appears to be a variation on the argument that if the universe is infinite, then everything that happens must happen an infinite number of times; i.e. that there must be (now or at at some point in the infinite future) another planet that is identical to this one, with identical people doing identical things, on it.

    Some of the more obvious objections to that are:

    1. There is no evidence that the universe is infinite.

    2. The argument that everything must repeat may not be true (for complex reasons which this margin is too small to hold)

    3. Even if another planet with similar people existed, they would not be "you" because you would not have a shared conciousness - neither would know / remember anything the other had done. They would just be similar looking but different people.

    4. The argument is just stupid, with all the philosophical depth of solipsism.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  52. #51  
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    Quote Originally Posted by xma View Post
    what is not correct ?
    More schoolboy philosophy: Ship of Theseus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The only good use for this argument is: Trigger's Broom - YouTube

    In other words, your "theory" is a joke.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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    you say that you (your essence) consists only from stardust and you have no soul. so, if the atomic rearrangements which is you is meeting again in the universe that be you and only you. so, that mean that you live once not in the universe. but in another case, if duplicate your body down to atomic rearrangements that was not you . this is mean that you consists not only from stardust and you have a soul . what is not correct ?
    Once again I'm pretty sure I don't fully understand you. But ...

    I'm perfectly happy with the normal biological arrangements. When I die I'd be very happy to be composted for the benefit of growing things and feeding other living things. As there are laws about such things, I'll have to settle for being buried under a tree.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
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  54. #53  
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    No one can replicate another's life...circumstances never are the same..
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