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Thread: 514void's Gravity Idea

  1. #1 514void's Gravity Idea 
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    I have a valid theory:
    gravity is just energy differentials in the static aether caused by matter, making other stuff not go away from it as fast.
    (BTW, there are some physicists that hate the aether for some reason, so pretend it doesn't exist when people ask.)


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  3. #2  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    How is that "valid"?
    The "aether" has not been shown to exist - contrary to your (unsupported) claim that "physicists ... pretend it doesn't exist".
    Or were you using the term "valid theory" as a euphemism for "wild guess"?


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  4. #3  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 514void View Post
    I have a valid theory:
    No you don't, you have an unsupported "idea"

    Quote Originally Posted by 514void View Post
    gravity is just energy differentials in the static aether caused by matter, making other stuff not go away from it as fast.
    Unsupported assertion followed by nonsense

    Quote Originally Posted by 514void View Post
    (BTW, there are some physicists that hate the aether for some reason, so pretend it doesn't exist when people ask.)
    No, they would be physicists who go with experimental evidence rather than made up rubbish, no hate involved just boredom at the persistence of cranks trying to ressurect old discredited ideas that go against the facts.
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  5. #4  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 514void View Post
    I have a valid theory:
    gravity is just energy differentials in the static aether caused by matter, making other stuff not go away from it as fast.
    (BTW, there are some physicists that hate the aether for some reason, so pretend it doesn't exist when people ask.)
    If this theory is "valid" please show the mathematical model and how it makes predictions at least as good as, or better than, existing theory.

    Please also show some evidence that this aether exists.

    And finally, which peer-reviewed journal has this breakthrough been publsihed in?
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  6. #5  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    MODERATOR NOTE : This does not belong into the main section of the forum. Moved to Personal Theories.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    How is that "valid"?
    The "aether" has not been shown to exist - contrary to your (unsupported) claim that "physicists ... pretend it doesn't exist".
    Or were you using the term "valid theory" as a euphemism for "wild guess"?
    umm, yes, i was being sarcastic, sorry for the confusion
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  8. #7  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Given that you are new on the forum few, if any members will have been able to pick up on your personal style and generals beliefs. That makes it all the more difficult to distinguish between sarcasm, irony, humour, brain storming, serious points, confusion, and lunacy. Porbably best to make that clearer for a while, until people get to know you.

    Welcome.
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  9. #8  
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    O dear, my sarcasm actually described some other random physicists idea, I hope that I haven't ruined his idea too.
    Einstein: "Ether and Relativity"
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  10. #9  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Not the Leiden address again :

    It is a definite favourite with ether theory cranks, it's just a shame none of them actually read it...

    Markus put it best here:

    Hypothesis for a consistent Aether theory
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  11. #10  
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    I have read it.

    here is a relevant part:

    There can be no space nor any part of space without gravitational potentials; for these confer upon space its metrical qualities, without which it cannot be imagined at all. The existence of the gravitational field is inseparably bound up with the existence of space.

    and its resolution:

    Recapitulating, we may say that according to the general theory of relativity space is endowed with physical qualities; in this sense, therefore, there exists an ether. According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable; for in such space there not only would be no propagation of light, but also no possibility of existence for standards of space and time (measuring-rods and clocks), nor therefore any space-time intervals in the physical sense. But this ether may not be thought of as endowed with the quality characteristic of ponderable media, as consisting of parts which may be tracked through time. The idea of motion may not be applied to it.

    It is my gravity idea too, albeit, my sarcastic attempt at a crazy explanation.
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  12. #11  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Read Markus' post that I linked to.
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  13. #12  
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    yer, i didn't assign any sort of motion or ponderable media to my ether either
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  14. #13  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    So what is the point of proposing it?
    Last edited by PhDemon; January 23rd, 2014 at 08:29 AM. Reason: typo
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    no point
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 514void View Post
    no point
    Quite...
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  17. #16  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 514void View Post
    It is my gravity idea too, albeit, my sarcastic attempt at a crazy explanation.
    So your exciting new theory is: Einstein was right?

    I'm sure everyone will be very relieved to hear it.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 514void View Post
    I have read it.

    here is a relevant part:

    There can be no space nor any part of space without gravitational potentials; for these confer upon space its metrical qualities, without which it cannot be imagined at all. The existence of the gravitational field is inseparably bound up with the existence of space.

    and its resolution:

    Recapitulating, we may say that according to the general theory of relativity space is endowed with physical qualities; in this sense, therefore, there exists an ether. According to the general theory of relativity space without ether is unthinkable; for in such space there not only would be no propagation of light, but also no possibility of existence for standards of space and time (measuring-rods and clocks), nor therefore any space-time intervals in the physical sense. But this ether may not be thought of as endowed with the quality characteristic of ponderable media, as consisting of parts which may be tracked through time. The idea of motion may not be applied to it.

    It is my gravity idea too, albeit, my sarcastic attempt at a crazy explanation.

    I would conclude that the part in bold does not exclude the possibility for a medium for gravity that differs from the spacetime manifold.
    The rest following that, might also be solved by means of a particle medium, that would be a discrete medium which produces such dynamics that it makes the qualities of the apparently continuous spacetime come into existence.
    It would indeed have to co-rotate with the earth to be stationary locally.

    If such a path of thinking were to be taken, then a discrete medium for gravity no longer has to be regarded
    as 'trying to prove Einstein wrong', but rather as an elaboration on the sources of it.

    Isn't a unifying theory all about that ? About linking the planetary-level continuous, to the subatomic-level discrete model ?
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  19. #18  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Please look up the word "metaphor"
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noa Drake View Post
    I would conclude that the part in bold does not exclude the possibility for a medium for gravity that differs from the spacetime manifold.
    Please bear in mind that this is only a short excerpt from the speech he gave; if you consider the sentence in the wider context of the address as a whole ( and its target audience, which were laypeople ), the meaning is quite clear.
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  21. #20  
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    i read some stuff by vernon brown that looks quite good, he recons that mass is made of photons that sort of go in a circle and since its made of light it does length contraction with absolute space, easy to understand with simple geometry, i'm sort of leaning towards it over relativity since I can't understand tensors
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  22. #21  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 514void View Post
    i'm sort of leaning towards it over relativity since I can't understand tensors
    There is no point choosing the wrong theory just because it is easier to understand. Presumably that is the reason this Vernon Brown made it up, because he wanted a theory he could understand. There are no shortcuts: you have to put in the work to get to grips with it. At some level at least: I know I would never be able to get to grips with the detailed math of GR, but I read enough to get a "feel" for how it works.
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  23. #22  
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    yes, but his theory explains all of the GR effects without having to have relativity maths, sure you can do relativity maths still, but understanding the mechanics of how it all works seems like a good thing to do too.
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  24. #23  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 514void View Post
    yes, but his theory explains all of the GR effects without having to have relativity maths
    I'm pretty sure it doesn't (can't). But I'm not going to waste time looking into it. You may think you are understanding science by doing this but you face the problem that you will be misled by his fairy tales and hence misunderstand how the universe works. Also, if you come to a science forum and ask a question and say "according to Vernon Brown..." then you will be ridiculed.

    Meh. It's your choice: study science or pseudo-science. I know which I would rather do.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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