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Thread: understanding time = 1

  1. #1 understanding time = 1 
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    these is completely my imagination, based on basics of physics and biology but i like to share it with you because it has some cool aspects.
    look at earth... it is rotating around her sun. the forces that keep it is the gravitational force and the force that push it away are the centrifugal force. for the earth to stay in its orbit these two forces need to be the same in opposite directions. until here we are fine, we have a gravitational force and a centrifugal force. and the earth keeps and keeps rotating. we as humans live our lives based on our biorhythm. and the time that we need to see a full rotation of earth around the sun is 365 days. (its our counting system). another animal needs the same time but it feels it in a different way. the mouse for example ...365 days for a mouse look longer because the mouse has a faster biorhythm, and the earth will be rotating even slower and the day will be longer, and the second and every moment . that is the biorhythm. now lets think above.... lets think outside the biorhythm and lets remove the ability of animals to experience life...lets think above.
    lets put in an balance the speed that an object with the mass of earth needs to have that an object with the mass of our sun will keep it in its orbit, and another object 1 million smaller than the mass of earth needs to rotate around and object 1 million smaller that the size of sun, and the "mini solar system will still work"
    its the same system, the same universe the same forces.
    by calculating that we will come in the result that earth needs to be rotated extremely fast around the sun so the system works... but we as living creatures experience it slowed down in our biorhythm "time". and earth rotation around the sun is not so slowed as we see it

    another proof for this is the stars, they are all part of of a big spiral that is our universe with the black hole in the center. we see it frozen but they are not frozen, physically they need to move very fast to hold in that formation, and they move for sure, but we see them even more slowed down.


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    centrifugal force
    This makes me very nervous about your understanding of these processes.

    I suggest you read this very carefully after you've looked at my extract below. Centrifugal force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    apparent force that draws a rotating body away from the center of rotation. It is caused by the inertia of the body as the body's path is continually redirected.
    Far too many people seem to think that centrifugal "force" is an independent entity of its own. Read the wiki entry carefully and follow any links that might help you either understand the concept better or use the expression more clearly.


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    we are not here to explain centrifugal force.... anyone who does know that can learn it
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    these reply does not belong on this post
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    these reply does not belong on this post

    You cannot dictate what a member can and cannot post in this thread.
    Every opinion (either in favor of your idea or against your idea) is justified to be posted here if they are relevant and/or do not violate the Forum Guidelines.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    lets put in an balance the speed that an object with the mass of earth needs to have that an object with the mass of our sun will keep it in its orbit, and another object 1 million smaller than the mass of earth needs to rotate around and object 1 million smaller that the size of sun, and the "mini solar system will still work"
    its the same system, the same universe the same forces.
    by calculating that we will come in the result that earth needs to be rotated extremely fast around the sun so the system works.
    Would you care to share with us how you obtained your rescaled solar system? It is true that the solar system (and classical physics in general) can be rescaled in a covariant manner. The question is whether you did it correctly. In other words, if one performs a scale transformation on the metric of spacetime:





    how does this transform other quantities? While I prefer to consider this general relativistically, it can also be done from Newtonian physics. However, you do need to rescale time the same way as rescaling spatial distance (which means that all linear speeds will be unchanged in the rescaled system) to maintain the covariance.
    Last edited by KJW; August 31st, 2013 at 07:37 AM. Reason: Changed sigma to sigma^2 to better represent the scale transformation
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    another proof for this is the stars, they are all part of of a big spiral that is our universe with the black hole in the center. we see it frozen but they are not frozen, physically they need to move very fast to hold in that formation, and they move for sure, but we see them even more slowed down.
    Parallax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?
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    exactly KJW. I agree with you. i think this goes to infinite that the process of scaling is something natural, it exist by itself on nature., they are trying to create theories about what is inside the molecule , inside the atom, and we have these huge planets and solar systems and galaxies above us. so everything big or small needs to have the fundamental laws of working. even if it is strange... earth and its solar system can bee zoomed out and on the speed we live it it does not work... it needs to be faster, like an electron around the center of an atom (for example)
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    exactly KJW. I agree with you. i think this goes to infinite that the process of scaling is something natural, it exist by itself on nature., they are trying to create theories about what is inside the molecule , inside the atom, and we have these huge planets and solar systems and galaxies above us. so everything big or small needs to have the fundamental laws of working. even if it is strange... earth and its solar system can bee zoomed out and on the speed we live it it does not work... it needs to be faster, like an electron around the center of an atom (for example)
    I should point out that I explicitly said "classical physics". Quantum physics imposes a definite scale to physical phenomena. Thus, the microscopic realm is distinctly different to the macroscopic realm. The existence of Planck units is a manifestation of the natural scale of reality, and it could be argued that quantum physics is necessary to complete the laws of physics from a logical perspective by providing a natural scale.
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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    So let's see what happens when we apply the scale transformation:





    If is the three-dimensional volume of any object, then:





    If is the density of any object, then:


    . . . (this is obtained by considering the scaling properties of the Ricci scalar from general relativity)


    Therefore, if is the mass of any object, then:





    Thus, if is , which means that the earth is orbiting at a distance of 150 km with a period of 32 seconds, the mass of the sun would be times smaller, but the density of the sun would be times greater. In case you're wondering if this very large density would be enough to form a blackhole, then no because the original scale sun is not a blackhole.
    Last edited by KJW; August 31st, 2013 at 08:37 AM.
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJW View Post
    the mass of the sun would be times smaller, but the density of the sun would be times greater.
    Specifically, the sun would have a diameter of 1.4 km, a mass of 2 x 1024 kg and an average density of 1.4 x 1015 kg/m3
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    these is completely my imagination, based on basics of physics and biology but i like to share it with you because it has some cool aspects.
    That is possible, but remains to be demonstrated.

    ... lets put in an balance the speed that an object with the mass of earth needs to have that an object with the mass of our sun will keep it in its orbit, and another object 1 million smaller than the mass of earth needs to rotate around and object 1 million smaller that the size of sun, and the "mini solar system will still work"
    its the same system, the same universe the same forces.
    by calculating that we will come in the result that earth needs to be rotated extremely fast around the sun so the system works.....
    As KJW has pointed out, rescaling covariantly is possible, but from your description above, it is not possible to verify whether you've done it correctly.

    another proof for this is the stars, they are all part of of a big spiral that is our universe with the black hole in the center. we see it frozen but they are not frozen, physically they need to move very fast to hold in that formation, and they move for sure, but we see them even more slowed down.
    'Mkay. But again what, precisely, is the specific scaling law that you are assuming?
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    rescaling does not mean rescaling only the size but rescaling in mass too, im not talking about compressing the sun into a black hole. that's not the point. im talking about how our biorhythm feels time. if we would create another system (inside a computer for example) the system needs to bee faster to work. but in our solar system we are created and evolved and we live here. we feel it as very familiar these way even if it does not work re-scaled without speeding up the process.... the point is just to open a little our fantasies not to start a science war :P the idea is how fast is our solar system for an outsider. our system is slowed down, our stars are frozen, a cigarete burns in 2 minutes, the atomic bomb reaction happens in miliseconds... this is the idea i want to share. biorhythm is our counting system, but we have to see out of it
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    if we would create another system (inside a computer for example) the system needs to bee faster to work
    Why?

    biorhythm is our counting system
    No it's not.
    Regardless of the size of the creature a day is a day.
    Dictated by the rotation of the Earth.
    Likewise a year is a year.
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    for you a day is a day, for another animal a day its the whole life and it don't have the chance to see the night. biorythm is what creates instincts for example. thats why a cat has great instincts than humans, becouse for a cat a second last more. and it has time to think it more than you. this is the biorhythm sir
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    a day its always a day and the night is always a night. how long it lasts its the point
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    a day its always a day and the night is always a night. how long it lasts its the point
    Well, generally speaking, a day lasts for a day.
    And sometimes a night lasts all night.
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    sir look. im talking about time.... lasting timee. ok 24h its it all. but 24 hours for you its 24 hours x 60 minutes x 60 seconds x 36 frames per second(how a human eye see) = 3110400 frames. this is a day for you. for another animal with more frames per second is moreeeee, for another creature with lower biorythm its less frames. and our thinking is dictated by the frames .
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    36 frames per second(how a human eye see)
    Wrong.

    and our thinking is dictated by the frames .
    Is it?
    Citation required.
    Since all creatures use a largely similar biology (and mostly a similar skeletal structure etc) wouldn't their "rate of time" be predicated on that?
    Any difference in speed (of movement or reaction) can be explained by bulk and musculature, so it appears that you're positing a "thinking speed" completely out synchrony with any possible use for it: e.g. if a mouse thinks a number of times faster than a human and doesn't move significantly so then why would evolution do that?
    It wouldn't help in any particular way. Likewise an elephant has to live in the world, any significant reduction in thinking speed would reduce its survival chances.
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    look Darwin..... this is how it is.... animals dont even have similar structure at all. life is so different from one to another, lifeforms are created and evolved by the mutation, and survived by the use of these changes. natural selection. anyway the frames per second thing is something you should check carefuly
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    rescaling does not mean rescaling only the size but rescaling in mass too, im not talking about compressing the sun into a black hole. that's not the point.
    But KJW DID rescale the mass as he clearly showed. And if you rescale the Solar System in size and mass, such that the orbit of the Earth has a radius of 150 km, the Sun becomes a black hole!

    If you want to make up thought experiments and analyse their consequences scientifically, then you have to listen to what the laws of physics tell you about those consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    im talking about how our biorhythm feels time. if we would create another system (inside a computer for example) the system needs to bee faster to work. but in our solar system we are created and evolved and we live here. we feel it as very familiar these way even if it does not work re-scaled without speeding up the process.... the point is just to open a little our fantasies not to start a science war :P the idea is how fast is our solar system for an outsider. our system is slowed down, our stars are frozen, a cigarete burns in 2 minutes, the atomic bomb reaction happens in miliseconds... this is the idea i want to share. biorhythm is our counting system, but we have to see out of it
    Our counting system is based on the SI definition of a second - specifically:

    1 Second = the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom.

    That is how atomic clocks work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    look Darwin..... this is how it is.... animals dont even have similar structure at all
    Oh, wrong again.
    Four limbs, rib cage, pelvis, head at the top etc etc.
    Go away and learn something.
    Cat.
    Elephant.
    Human.
    Now, what significant differences are there in structure?

    life is so different from one to another
    And majority of that difference is "cosmetic".

    anyway the frames per second thing is something you should check carefuly
    Oops, I gave a link.
    All you gave was an unsupported assertion.
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    ok. 1 second is ok. but the feel of that friendoo. do you know anything about biology????
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    one second???? brain???? biorythm???? do you understand???? -_-
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    ok. 1 second is ok. but the feel of that friendoo. do you know anything about biology????
    Apparently you don't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    one second???? brain???? biorythm???? do you understand???? -_-
    Not really. Are you referring to our subjective notions of time?

    To some people, the hours drag, whereas to others they pass quickly. If you are in a life threatening situation like a car crash, time seems to slow down. If you are reading an interesting book, time seems to pass quickly. When you are young, a year seems like a long time, but when you are old, the years pass quickly.

    Is that what you mean?
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    im talking about life, trees , animals, bacteria , crabs, octopus... dont know...they are different
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    im talking about life, trees , animals, bacteria , crabs, octopus... dont know...they are different
    Not that different. Same genetic code and, even, largely the same genes. Same cell structures. Same biochemistry. Same origin.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    im talking about life, trees , animals, bacteria , crabs, octopus... dont know...they are different
    Ah ha! That explains why we went to the effort of giving them different names!
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    So did you understand what bioryhhm is? The feel. You feel one second one second. The mouse feels it more. So the idea of the post. Everything lives in a different speed. How fast is earth rotating around the sun? Like not in this system? From outside... Not seeing it as a human from inside? We live maybe as long it takes the earth to make 85 orbits around the sun. How fast is that ?? Not like years. Like object rotation? How fast needs it to move , in a scale we can see a full view and see the forces working , in our hands. On a tiny system??... Well the time its the same. But this is what biorythm is. The ability of living creatures to experience time. This is what i like to share. This idea. That things move faster , or maybe slower but we experience them thanx to our biorythm
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    So did you understand what bioryhhm is? The feel.

    Biorhythm (ˈbī-ō-ˌri-thəm):
    "a natural, repeated pattern of changes that occur in the body and that affect the way a person feels"
    (Merriam-Webster)

    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    You feel one second one second. The mouse feels it more. So the idea of the post. Everything lives in a different speed.

    [citation needed]

    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    How fast is earth rotating around the sun?

    An orbit around the Sun takes, in theory, 86400 SI seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    Like not in this system? From outside... Not seeing it as a human from inside?

    This statement cannot be addressed due to its vagueness.

    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    We live maybe as long it takes the earth to make 85 orbits around the sun.

    Not exactly. The average global life expectancy in 2010 was estimated to be 67,2 years. Not 85.

    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    How fast is that ??

    I am not sure how I am to suppose the calculate the velocity if I do not have a distance given.

    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    How fast needs it to move , in a scale we can see a full view and see the forces working , in our hands.

    Seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    But this is what biorythm is. The ability of living creatures to experience time.

    Not according to the definition I provided at the top of this reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    This is what i like to share. This idea. That things move faster , or maybe slower but we experience them thanx to our biorythm

    The velocity of an object might change but we experience time due to our biorhythm.
    This idea does not seem to follow from your premises, does it?
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

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    biorythm its from the words. bio- whitch means creature, life, biology..... and rythm- speed . so the biorythm its the speed that we live and experience life. put that in mind . captain ego
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    biorythm its from the words. bio- whitch means creature, life, biology..... and rythm- speed . so the biorythm its the speed that we live and experience life. put that in mind . captain ego

    Not even close.

    Bio- (from the Greek word βίος (víos)):
    1. Life
    2. Lifespan
    3. Quality of life
    4. Biography, life story

    Rhythm (ˈri-thəm):
    "a regularly recurrent quantitative change in a variable biological process"
    (Merriam-Webster)

    Speed is not synonymous for rhythm, nor is it related to the term.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

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    Etymological arguments are usually as incorrect as they are spurious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci View Post
    jelous
    Yet another failure to present anything other than rhetoric.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci
    jelous
    Quote Originally Posted by sokol-ballaci
    put that in mind . captain ego

    There is no need to resort to (poorly written) insults.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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