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Thread: Atoms and humans.

  1. #1 Atoms and humans. 
    pljames
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    Since humans are made up of atoms, could there be a relation between the two? Like where does knowledge come from, other from each other? Could the atom/matter somehow input knowledge into our cells then into out mind? pljames


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    The short answer is no.
    For a longer answer try to answer the question HOW would "the atom/matter somehow input knowledge into our cells then into out mind"?

    Of course, if you want to delve into epistemology the answer could be "of course it does, sort of" - but I think that's not what you mean.


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    If atoms could give us knowledge, we'd be a whole lot smarter...
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    Dywyddyr,
    Excellent point. Thought, could matter/atoms be spiritual? Paul


    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    The short answer is no.
    For a longer answer try to answer the question HOW would "the atom/matter somehow input knowledge into our cells then into out mind"?

    Of course, if you want to delve into epistemology the answer could be "of course it does, sort of" - but I think that's not what you mean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    Excellent point.

    I'm not sure you've grasped my point.

    Thought, could matter/atoms be spiritual?
    What, specifically, do you mean by "spiritual"?
    At first glance the answer is "Hell no!".
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  7. #6  
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    Dywyddyr,
    I am trying to deduct that does atoms,matter have spiritual,God properties? If we are made up of matter can we also be made of spirit/God as well. Does matter have intelligence and consciousness? Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    Dywyddyr,
    I am trying to deduct that does atoms,matter have spiritual,God properties?
    Lacking definitions of god then your enquiry isn't going to get far.

    If we are made up of matter can we also be made of spirit/God as well
    Define spirit. Define god.

    Does matter have intelligence and consciousness? Paul
    We are matter. We have intelligence and consciousness.
    If you mean individual atoms then the answer would appear to be an emphatic "not ever possible".
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  9. #8  
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    God to me is invisible like matter/atoms. Knowledge and intelligence and consciousness is a human state, but is their more to man than just matter? Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    God to me is invisible like matter/atoms.
    If that's all you've got as a definition for god then the wind is god.
    And radio waves.
    But not planets, cats, chicken sandwiches or trees.

    Knowledge and intelligence and consciousness is a human state, but is their more to man than just matter? Paul
    Energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    God to me is invisible like matter/atoms.
    If your god is like atoms, then I suppose that answers your question: atoms are like (your) god.

    Weird god, though...

    Knowledge and intelligence and consciousness is a human state
    Correct. Atoms do not have those things.

    but is their more to man than just matter?
    Doesn't seem to be.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    God to me is invisible like matter/atoms.
    If that's all you've got as a definition for god then the wind is god.
    And radio waves.
    But not planets, cats, chicken sandwiches or trees.

    Knowledge and intelligence and consciousness is a human state, but is their more to man than just matter? Paul
    Energy.
    Agreed, but does energy have consciousness and knowledge? Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    [Agreed, but does energy have consciousness and knowledge?
    Of course not.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    Agreed, but does energy have consciousness and knowledge? Paul
    That would be a "Hell no!" too.
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    Does energy have consciousness and knowledge? The only test is to be able to measure it but Paul, are you speaking of death? I'm lost on what is not said
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    If atoms could give us knowledge, we'd be a whole lot smarter...
    Yea, about 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times smarter on the average.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill alsept View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    If atoms could give us knowledge, we'd be a whole lot smarter...
    Yea, about 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times smarter on the average.
    Unless atoms just aren't very bright.
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bill alsept View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    If atoms could give us knowledge, we'd be a whole lot smarter...
    Yea, about 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times smarter on the average.
    Unless atoms just aren't very bright.
    Well, they're certainly no photons.

    *rimshot*
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    Quote Originally Posted by pleaseletmebeanon View Post
    Does energy have consciousness and knowledge? The only test is to be able to measure it but Paul, are you speaking of death? I'm lost on what is not said
    Are you a linguists? Death can be measured by no activity in the body. My whole point was, does matter/atoms and neurons in the brain have consciousness. It was studied that neurons do have some spiritual qualities. Can matter/atoms have spiritual qualities as well? Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    It was studied that neurons do have some spiritual qualities.
    The deep end. You just jumped in.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    My whole point was, does matter/atoms and neurons in the brain have consciousness.
    No.

    It was studied that neurons do have some spiritual qualities.
    I very much doubt it.

    Can matter/atoms have spiritual qualities as well? Paul
    Until we know what you mean by "spiritual qualities" we can't say.
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    It was studied that neurons do have some spiritual qualities.
    The deep end. You just jumped in.
    The deep end of what? I am having a interpretating problem. I say yes they say no. How deep is the pool? Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    I say yes they say no.
    Okay, WHY do you say "yes"?
    On what basis?
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    Can matter/atoms have spiritual qualities as well? Paul
    No.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    It was studied that neurons do have some spiritual qualities.
    The deep end. You just jumped in.
    The deep end of what? I am having a interpretating problem. I say yes they say no. How deep is the pool? Paul
    I could maybe understand if you thought a living cell in some way was spiritual. And With the DNA I could understand the knowledge part. But atoms would be no different than solar systems and galaxies or even rocks.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill al sept View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    It was studied that neurons do have some spiritual qualities.
    The deep end. You just jumped in.
    The deep end of what? I am having an interpreting problem. I say yes they say no. How deep is the pool? Paul
    I could maybe understand if you thought a living cell in some way was spiritual. And With the DNA I could understand the knowledge part. But atoms would be no different than solar systems and galaxies or even rocks.
    "I could maybe understand if you thought a living cell in some way was spiritual. And With the DNA I could understand the knowledge part".
    Exactly. There was a study about that neuron part and that was their conclusion asa well. It was a hypothesis about atoms tho. Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    Exactly. There was a study about that neuron part and that was their conclusion asa well.
    Source please.
    I doubt they said what you think they said.
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    "Originally Posted by Neverfly
    If atoms could give us knowledge, we'd be a whole lot smarter..."

    "Originally Posted by bill alsept
    Yea, about 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times smarter on the average."

    No, I am not a linguist but calculating how smarter we would be ignores other possibilities –the first that comes to mind is if we know to look for a language?
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    Exactly. There was a study about that neuron part and that was their conclusion asa well.
    Source please.
    I doubt they said what you think they said.
    Will find it and send it to you. Paul
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    It was studied that neurons do have some spiritual qualities.
    The deep end. You just jumped in.
    The deep end of what? I am having a interpretating problem. I say yes they say no. How deep is the pool? Paul
    Applying real science (a proposed neurological study) with pseudoscience/religion (spiritual properties). It's a quick ticket to the Pseudo sub at best, the Trash Can if you don't even manage to find the study to which you're referring.

    I'm 99% sure there is no REAL peer-reviewed scientific study conducted by real neurologists that so much as mentions the word "spiritual" in the report.
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by pleaseletmebeanon View Post
    Now I see. They are using the study of neurons to explain "spiritual experiences" (which they grouped next to mental disorders, so Neverfly should be happy about that )

    I think the statement that neurons have spiritual properties is still misleading.
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    Exactly - the function of some neurons may be what leads to feelings/ thoughts that are labelled spirituality.
    It does not claim, nor even imply, that there is a "spiritual component TO neurons".
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    Since humans are made up of atoms, could there be a relation between the two? Like where does knowledge come from, other from each other? Could the atom/matter somehow input knowledge into our cells then into out mind? pljames

    Where doe's knowledge come from, now in my version and not fact or any other forms of theory or hypothesize , total supposition and presumption, and in no way the truth, I consider it as an easy assumption that we are and store knowledge the exact same way and principle as a hard disk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    we are and store knowledge the exact same way and principle as a hard disk.
    That would explain much about your posts.
    At some point you got far too close to a magnet.
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  36. #35  
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    pleaseletmebeanon,
    Yes. Hypothetically if the mind,which is esoteric, invisible within the brain, then one could theorize, the brain could have spiritual qualities within itself ,hypothetically? Thoughts? Paul




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    You STILL haven't defined "spiritual".
    There is NO EVIDENCE to support this view.
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  38. #37  
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    Dywyddyr,
    If there is no evidence to support this view, then all I have is what (I) believe. Why try to prove something to another when they say there is (no proof)? ​It would be futile? Paul


    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    You STILL haven't defined "spiritual".
    There is NO EVIDENCE to support this view.
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  39. #38 Proof of the hypothetical word called spiritual? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    You STILL haven't defined "spiritual".
    There is NO EVIDENCE to support this view.
    If you belief there is no proof, then why should I try to prove something you said, "There is NO EVIDENCE to support this view". But how about the mind, invisible not material, could that be esoteric or spiritual? Paul
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    Quote Originally Posted by pljames View Post
    If there is no evidence to support this view, then all I have is what (I) believe.

    Then why are you posting on a science board?
    Why try to prove something to another when they say there is (no proof)? ​It would be futile? Paul
    So what you're saying is "I believe X".
    How is that any basis for discussion?
    Why ask the question if you already believe in something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    If you belief there is no proof, then why should I try to prove something you said, "There is NO EVIDENCE to support this view".
    Proof != evidence.

    But how about the mind, invisible not material, could that be esoteric or spiritual? Paul
    Why ask me (or anyone)?
    You already have your belief.
    I'm done here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by theorist View Post
    I consider it as an easy assumption that we are and store knowledge the exact same way and principle as a hard disk.
    But because you have already acknowledged that your knowledge is very limited, why do you trollishly insert your baseless speculations in this (or any) thread? Don't you have enough of your own threads running (and endlessly, it would seem)?

    For the record, as Dywyddyr humorously pointed out, we do not store memory that way. Your ears aren't microphones, your eyes aren't video cameras, and your brain isn't a gigantic hard drive.
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    I know science can manipulate the brain to have "spiritual" experiences and this Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life study lends to that argument but still, how can anyone give a definitive answer? Truthfully, dare I say it? I don't think science can explain everything
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    Quote Originally Posted by pleaseletmebeanon View Post
    I know science can manipulate the brain to have "spiritual" experiences and this Religious Factors and Hippocampal Atrophy in Late Life study lends to that argument but still, how can anyone give a definitive answer? Truthfully, dare I say it? I don't think science can explain everything
    Science never claims that it can explain everything, but without question it has shown to be the best way to understand things. Too many times someone presents the facile argument "well, science can't explain everything...so I'll believe what I want." In short, they invent a rationale for why they can go back to the magical thinking that kept the human race in darkness for almost the entirety of its existence. I guess not everyone likes the light as much as scientists do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tk421 View Post
    Science never claims that it can explain everything, but without question it has shown to be the best way to understand things. Too many times someone presents the facile argument "well, science can't explain everything...so I'll believe what I want." In short, they invent a rationale for why they can go back to the magical thinking that kept the human race in darkness for almost the entirety of its existence. I guess not everyone likes the light as much as scientists do.
    Exactly.

    But I disagree.

    I say that science can explain everything. We just haven't gotten it all explained, yet.
    The entitlement attitude of instant gratification is not satisfied with the notion of progressive learning, so they weasel out of the problem by saying things like "science cannot explain gnomes, so I believe in gnomes."
    Well, go on and believe in your gnomes, then. But don't badmouth the rest of the people that aren't so given to delusion to make yourself feel better about your own.
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    I wrote my science remark with respect to the definitive "no" to Paul's question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Exactly.

    But I disagree.

    I say that science can explain everything. We just haven't gotten it all explained, yet.
    That may very well be true (and I share your optimism), but I acknowledge that there is no formal proof that it is true, so I don't feel justified in declaring it to be true.

    The entitlement attitude of instant gratification is not satisfied with the notion of progressive learning, so they weasel out of the problem by saying things like "science cannot explain gnomes, so I believe in gnomes."
    Well, go on and believe in your gnomes, then. But don't badmouth the rest of the people that aren't so given to delusion to make yourself feel better about your own.
    I share your sentiments. "Science is hard, so I'll go with gnomes" describes the essential features of too many people's thought processes.
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    Science can ( or will eventually be able to ) explain everything? Hmmm. Apart from the very sensible comment that there is no formal proof in existence that this is true, I think 'everything' is a probably going too far. Unless that is you choose to define science as 'that which explains everything' ...
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    Science can't explain everything indeed. It can explain the nature. If we talk about God , we can't prove there is one or not. And another example, if we take Bible for example, how would you scientifically explain how Moses spread the water or turned it into blood? And yet there are facts that this has happened (there are things underwater at the place it happened,that proves it.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by robis97 View Post
    And another example, if we take Bible for example, how would you scientifically explain how Moses spread the water or turned it into blood? And yet there are facts that this has happened (there are things underwater at the place it happened,that proves it.)
    There are things underwater that prove Moses turned it into blood?
    How does that work?
    I think you're confused.
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    Atoms make up humans.

    God did not make humans for, to me, there is no God so therefore that is impossible.

    Evolution rearranges atoms to make things change, for whatever reason, and we are a product of that evolutionary process which makes us who and what we are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by robis97 View Post
    And another example, if we take Bible for example, how would you scientifically explain how Moses spread the water or turned it into blood? And yet there are facts that this has happened (there are things underwater at the place it happened,that proves it.)
    There are things underwater that prove Moses turned it into blood?
    How does that work?
    I think you're confused.
    Sorry i didn't form a sentence that makes sense ... I meant there are a prove that Moses spread the water . There are coaches(or whatever they are called) on which the people chasing Moses and his people was driving. They have found those coaches underwater at the place it happened.

    There sure isn't a prove that he turned water in blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Atoms make up humans.

    God did not make humans for, to me, there is no God so therefore that is impossible.

    Evolution rearranges atoms to make things change, for whatever reason, and we are a product of that evolutionary process which makes us who and what we are.
    I don't want to throw my opinion at You nor make you think that I'm right. But have you ever thought ,how a beautiful and so perfect universe can exists by just an accident ? There should be something more to that. And I don't say that Big bang is not right , maybe God used big bang method to make everything , but controlled everything so it doesn't go out of control. Again I don't want to make you think that my opinion is right.
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  52. #51  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robis97 View Post
    There sure isn't a prove that he turned water in blood.
    Okay.

    I meant there are a prove that Moses spread the water . There are coaches(or whatever they are called) on which the people chasing Moses and his people was driving. They have found those coaches underwater at the place it happened.
    Oh right.
    Chariots (or the remains of) found underwater.
    And you think, somehow, that that proves the waters were "spread" as per the bible.
    There's no other possible way it could have happened that parts of chariots ended up underwater, is there?

    Let's take a look at what was actually reported.
    I believe I actually sat in an ancient chariot cab
    others who have been to the same location are not so sure what is being viewed underwater are the remnants of the great chase and urge extreme caution regarding the unsubstantiated claims
    All kinds of people are finding coral and calling it chariot parts

    Need any more?

    Have you considered taking up rationality at any point in your life?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    Oh my, another 'collectable'... I really don't know where you get the patience from, dealing with cranks in the calm and rational manner that you do. God maybe? ( Just a joke).
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  54. #53  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Oh my, another 'collectable'... I really don't know where you get the patience from, dealing with cranks in the calm and rational manner that you do. God maybe?
    No. he's just an android, newer model.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
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