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Thread: Frameworks besides spacetime

  1. #1 Frameworks besides spacetime 
    Average Human guymillion's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Maybe this question is a little too philosophical, but is it possible that there are areas that aren't spacetime? Does our current understanding of science allow for something like this? I am mainly thinking of an area that in a sense is processed parallel from our own spacetime universe. For example, in LQG the spin networks aren't positioned in spacetime, they are what makes up spacetime itself. So is there a possibility of a framework like this (in M-theory pherhaps?) that allows for non-spacetime areas? I'm new here, so please tell me if this is too outlandish of a question.


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  3. #2  
    Forum Ph.D.
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    Your question is too vague. There are lots of things that aren't space-time, such as personal computers, home movies, automobiles, etc. You need to be more precise as to what you are driving at.


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  4. #3 Specifics 
    Average Human guymillion's Avatar
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    Sorry for being vague. My understand of spacetime is that it is a place where matter can exist. (I understand it can also be affected by the matter like in general relativity, but that was just a general definition.) My question is whether it's possible that there is a framework that is not spacetime where matter or something else can exist.
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  5. #4  
    Comet Dust Collector Moderator
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    Not in this Universe.
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    If something moves in direction that it dont interact or interact differently, it in other dimension
    Last edited by Water Nosfim; April 30th, 2012 at 07:40 PM.
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  7. #6  
    Average Human guymillion's Avatar
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    The "fabric of spacetime" isn't made of anything. It's nothing. Are there different types of nothing?
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  8. #7  
    Quagma SpeedFreek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guymillion View Post
    My question is whether it's possible that there is a framework that is not spacetime where matter or something else can exist.
    If matter exists in space, for any length of time, it exists in spacetime.
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  9. #8  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guymillion View Post
    Hi,

    Maybe this question is a little too philosophical, but is it possible that there are areas that aren't spacetime? Does our current understanding of science allow for something like this? I am mainly thinking of an area that in a sense is processed parallel from our own spacetime universe. For example, in LQG the spin networks aren't positioned in spacetime, they are what makes up spacetime itself. So is there a possibility of a framework like this (in M-theory pherhaps?) that allows for non-spacetime areas? I'm new here, so please tell me if this is too outlandish of a question.
    An "area that is not space time" is by definition not part of our universe; the question is thus rather academic, as we would never be able to observe or interact with such a "non-spacetime".
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  10. #9  
    Average Human guymillion's Avatar
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    I did some more thinking about this. Spacetime could be thought of as the perfect framework. It is a framework that can have things interact with one another. And, it has distance, so "nothing" has the ability to exist. This is my question: is spacetime real because it is such a perfect and logical framework, or is spacetime real because it is a part of a more fundamental concept? Is spacetime simply how our brains interpret this more fundamental world made purely of information? How does spacetime work with the holographic principle? If a 3d area can be encoded on a 2d surface, can a 2d surface be encoded on a 1d line? And then what happens when you get down to 0d?
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  11. #10  
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    through entanglement, things can interact in non-space-like ways.
    if things only interacted through entanglement then there would be no space at all.
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  12. #11 Frameworks besides spacetime 
    Average Human guymillion's Avatar
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    I had originally posted this in the physics section, but I didn't think it was quite "real" science, so I am deciding to make a new thread here. My question was this:

    Why do we have a spacial idea of reality as opposed to more digital physics? I am questioning whether spacetime is simply the phenomenon our brain invents for how we travel through a vast information matrix, as suggested in digital physics.

    My most recent post elaborates on this thinking:

    Spacetime could be thought of as the perfect framework. It is a framework that can have things interact with one another. And, it has distance, so "nothing" has the ability to exist. This is my question: is spacetime real because it is such a perfect and logical framework, or is spacetime real because it is a part of a more fundamental concept? How does spacetime work with the holographic principle? If a 3d area can be encoded on a 2d surface, can a 2d surface be encoded on a 1d line? And then what happens when you get down to 0d?

    If anyone had any thoughts, I'd love to hear what you think. If you want to see the original thread, here is a link:

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/physi...spacetime.html
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  13. #12  
    Comet Dust Collector Moderator
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    I'll merge the threads here...
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  14. #13  
    Average Human guymillion's Avatar
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    Great! I didn't know moderators could do that!
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  15. #14  
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    I wasn't sure, but it appears I dooded it!
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