Thread: why i wanst taught about the minto wheel in thermodinamics

85% eficiency?
producing work on 2º gradient
only published in mother earth journal

humm

Works, as demonstrated by Mythsbusters !!
This is not, however, a perpetuum mobile since you have to keep adding energy to maintain a certain water temperature.

yeah who cares man if this was widely used there would be no need for petrol

the only reference is mather nature magazine which told it as a solar wheel

i dont blame my teachers after all both my folks are teacher i balme the parasitic petrol companies which tentacles reaches what gets taught and what not

Originally Posted by luxtpm

yeah who cares man if this was widely used there would be no need for petrol

the only reference is mather nature magazine which told it as a solar wheel

i dont blame my teachers after all both my folks are teacher i balme the parasitic petrol companies which tentacles reaches what gets taught and what not

I don't think you understand - it is not possible to operate any kind of vehicle on this. Even if it were, you would still need a source of fuel to keep the water heated, so you really gain nothing. In fact, it stands to reason that a car engine is probably much more energy efficient than this Minto wheel.

a car engine is 15% eficient minto wheel 85% according his author

electric cars should work on mintos thermic generators of electricity

you could use this to ehat the water:

Where did you hear the 85% efficiency figure? It is grossly wrong.
IEEE Xplore - The Thermodynamics Analysis of Thermal Efficiency of the Minto Engine

85% was the authors figure, minto

anyway i dont see so revolutionary its eficiency as its working with just 2 degree gradient

Then the authors ary idiots or lying

Originally Posted by luxtpm

85% was the authors figure, minto

anyway i dont see so revolutionary its eficiency as its working with just 2 degree gradient

Maybe you should be complaining because your teachers are not teaching you critical thinking. Read the IEEE article I referenced above. The Carnot efficiency is 17% operating between 293.15 K and 353.15 K. With a 2 degree gradient, the efficiency would be far worse. Mother Earth News and Mythbusters both tried it and said it was useless. It was invented by the Iske brothers in 1881, reinvented by Minto in 1976, and nobody has found any use for it yet.

Originally Posted by Harold14370

nobody has found any use for it yet.

It seems useful in confusing non-critical thinkers about the principles of themrodynamics.

well so ill be critical with both education and myself and obtain eficiency myself:

http://energy.sdsu.edu/testhome/Test/solve/basics/tables/tablesPC/TSatR12.html

the vapur pressure with a gradient of five degrees its 100 kpa

this means the wheel can work with 10 m diametrum on a 5 º gradient

how much work is that for kg of r12?

1*10*10=100 J

whats the internal energy difference for 5 º
around 5 J/kg

U variation=Q-W
5=Q-100

Q=105

eficiency=w/q=100/105=95% eficiency

negelcting a ten percent of mechanical lost it gives the 85% figure matching the claimed author eficiency

Originally Posted by Harold14370

It was invented by the Iske brothers in 1881

Which is long before any possible Big Oil Conspiracy in luxtpm's paranoid fantasy.

whats wrong?


well i saw it:


whats the internal energy difference for 5 º
around 2000 J/kg in the best case

around 5000 j/kg in the worst case


U variation=Q-W
2000=Q-100


Q=2100


eficiency=w/q=100/2100=4.7% eficiency
in the worst case: 100/5100=2%

maximum eficiency for carnot?


1-cold focus/hot focus=1.3%

Originally Posted by luxtpm

well so ill be critical with both education and myself and obtain eficiency myself:

http://energy.sdsu.edu/testhome/Test/solve/basics/tables/tablesPC/TSatR12.html

the vapur pressure with a gradient of five degrees its 100 kpa

this means the wheel can work with 10 m diametrum on a 5 º gradient

how much work is that for kg of r12?

1*10*10=100 J

whats the internal energy difference for 5 º
around 5 J/kg

U variation=Q-W
5=Q-100

Q=105

eficiency=w/q=100/105=95% eficiency

negelcting a ten percent of mechanical lost it gives the 85% figure matching the claimed author eficiency

It doesn't look like you learned any thermodynamics either.
Look at equation 3 here. Carnot cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Carnot thermodynamic efficiency is 1-Tc/Th
For a 5 degree difference, assume Tc is 293K and Th is 298K. This gives 1-293/298 = .017. That's 1.7 percent efficiency.

i rectified that in my next post check it out

the eficiency of this cycle is equal to carnots if not bigger

Originally Posted by Harold14370

Originally Posted by luxtpm

well so ill be critical with both education and myself and obtain eficiency myself:

http://energy.sdsu.edu/testhome/Test/solve/basics/tables/tablesPC/TSatR12.html

the vapur pressure with a gradient of five degrees its 100 kpa

this means the wheel can work with 10 m diametrum on a 5 º gradient

how much work is that for kg of r12?

1*10*10=100 J

whats the internal energy difference for 5 º
around 5 J/kg

U variation=Q-W
5=Q-100

Q=105

eficiency=w/q=100/105=95% eficiency

negelcting a ten percent of mechanical lost it gives the 85% figure matching the claimed author eficiency

It doesn't look like you learned any thermodynamics either.
Look at equation 3 here. Carnot cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Carnot thermodynamic efficiency is 1-Tc/Th
For a 5 degree difference, assume Tc is 293K and Th is 298K. This gives 1-293/298 = .017. That's 1.7 percent efficiency.

check out this calculation:

eficiency=w/q=
in the worst case: 100/5100=2%

actually:
1.96%

Originally Posted by luxtpm

check out this calculation:

eficiency=w/q=
in the worst case: 100/5100=2%

actually:
1.96%

...which is a far cry from those 85% you initially suggested. In either case, totally insufficient to run a car on, unless of course you are in the Sahara dessert with a water reservoir the size of an olympic swimming pool on your roof !
I for my part will stick to the good old petrol engine until such time when something better and cheaper comes along for general use. It seems doubtful that this will take the form of a Minto wheel though...

Now a mentho/coke wheel....that's a different story

Originally Posted by Markus Hanke

Originally Posted by luxtpm

check out this calculation:

eficiency=w/q=
in the worst case: 100/5100=2%

actually:
1.96%

...which is a far cry from those 85% you initially suggested. In either case, totally insufficient to run a car on, unless of course you are in the Sahara dessert with a water reservoir the size of an olympic swimming pool on your roof !
I for my part will stick to the good old petrol engine until such time when something better and cheaper comes along for general use. It seems doubtful that this will take the form of a Minto wheel though...

yest i mistook kj by j

still better eficiency than carnot the maximum SUPPOSED eficiency

Originally Posted by luxtpm

still better eficiency than carnot the maximum SUPPOSED eficiency

If you think you can build an engine that has better efficiency than the Carnot efficiency, then you ought to go ahead and build it. You'll get a Nobel prize, because that would violate one or two laws of thermodynamics. My money is on Carnot.

and what if i build it and they send me to a secret island?

i was gonna ask my teacher about this but seeing in the worse case eficiency is better than carnot i better shut up

btw ill build it when all stock markets fall leaders get in jail and all info except weapons gets declasified and people starts living in natural cohoperatives were mnoey is useless

ill work on the cohoperative building these wheels to have enrgy for internet in the tomato filed

edit:

oh my stomcah still itches with the diefinition of funtionable according thermo

two ingeneers propose two different thermal engines which works and which doesnt:

A)an engine which works on love with eficiency under 1-(t1/t2)

B)a minto wheel with eficiency slightly over 1-(t1/t2)

note due to probability acountant if you get it wrong you get negative score

Originally Posted by luxtpm

and what if i build it and they send me to a secret island?

Much as I wish they would, I can see no reason why they would. (And who are "they", anyway?)

i was gonna ask my teacher about this but seeing in the worse case eficiency is better than carnot i better shut up

Or maybe your teacher will help you understand where you went wrong in your calculation.

Or find out you are right and help you publish a paper that leads to you getting a Nobel prize.

Originally Posted by luxtpm

and what if i build it and they send me to a secret island?

i was gonna ask my teacher about this but seeing in the worse case eficiency is better than carnot i better shut up

btw ill build it when all stock markets fall leaders get in jail and all info except weapons gets declasified and people starts living in natural cohoperatives were mnoey is useless

ill work on the cohoperative building these wheels to have enrgy for internet in the tomato filed

edit:

oh my stomcah still itches with the diefinition of funtionable according thermo

two ingeneers propose two different thermal engines which works and which doesnt:

A)an engine which works on love with eficiency under 1-(t1/t2)

B)a minto wheel with eficiency slightly over 1-(t1/t2)

note due to probability acountant if you get it wrong you get negative score

History shows that what develops from chaos is NOT utopia, see Europe, 1929-1945.