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Thread: why i wanst taught about the minto wheel in thermodinamics

  1. #1 why i wanst taught about the minto wheel in thermodinamics 
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    85% eficiency?
    producing work on 2 gradient
    only published in mother earth journal

    humm






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  3. #2  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    Works, as demonstrated by Mythsbusters !!
    This is not, however, a perpetuum mobile since you have to keep adding energy to maintain a certain water temperature.


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    yeah who cares man if this was widely used there would be no need for petrol

    the only reference is mather nature magazine which told it as a solar wheel

    i dont blame my teachers after all both my folks are teacher i balme the parasitic petrol companies which tentacles reaches what gets taught and what not
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  5. #4  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm View Post
    yeah who cares man if this was widely used there would be no need for petrol

    the only reference is mather nature magazine which told it as a solar wheel

    i dont blame my teachers after all both my folks are teacher i balme the parasitic petrol companies which tentacles reaches what gets taught and what not
    I don't think you understand - it is not possible to operate any kind of vehicle on this. Even if it were, you would still need a source of fuel to keep the water heated, so you really gain nothing. In fact, it stands to reason that a car engine is probably much more energy efficient than this Minto wheel.
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  6. #5  
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    a car engine is 15% eficient minto wheel 85% according his author

    electric cars should work on mintos thermic generators of electricity

    you could use this to ehat the water:

    Last edited by luxtpm; March 4th, 2012 at 01:33 PM.
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  7. #6  
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    Where did you hear the 85% efficiency figure? It is grossly wrong.
    IEEE Xplore - The Thermodynamics Analysis of Thermal Efficiency of the Minto Engine
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    85% was the authors figure, minto

    anyway i dont see so revolutionary its eficiency as its working with just 2 degree gradient
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  9. #8  
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    Then the authors ary idiots or lying
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm View Post
    85% was the authors figure, minto

    anyway i dont see so revolutionary its eficiency as its working with just 2 degree gradient
    Maybe you should be complaining because your teachers are not teaching you critical thinking. Read the IEEE article I referenced above. The Carnot efficiency is 17% operating between 293.15 K and 353.15 K. With a 2 degree gradient, the efficiency would be far worse. Mother Earth News and Mythbusters both tried it and said it was useless. It was invented by the Iske brothers in 1881, reinvented by Minto in 1976, and nobody has found any use for it yet.
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  11. #10  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    nobody has found any use for it yet.
    It seems useful in confusing non-critical thinkers about the principles of themrodynamics.
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  12. #11  
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    well so ill be critical with both education and myself and obtain eficiency myself:

    http://energy.sdsu.edu/testhome/Test/solve/basics/tables/tablesPC/TSatR12.html

    t
    he vapur pressure with a gradient of five degrees its 100 kpa

    this means the wheel can work with 10 m diametrum on a 5 gradient

    how much work is that for kg of r12?

    1*10*10=100 J

    whats the internal energy difference for 5
    around 5 J/kg

    U variation=Q-W
    5=Q-100

    Q=105

    eficiency=w/q=100/105=95% eficiency

    negelcting a ten percent of mechanical lost it gives the 85% figure matching the claimed author eficiency
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  13. #12  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    It was invented by the Iske brothers in 1881
    Which is long before any possible Big Oil Conspiracy in luxtpm's paranoid fantasy.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  14. #13  
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    whats wrong?


    well i saw it:


    whats the internal energy difference for 5
    around 2000 J/kg in the best case

    around 5000 j/kg in the worst case


    U variation=Q-W
    2000=Q-100


    Q=2100


    eficiency=w/q=100/2100=4.7% eficiency
    in the worst case: 100/5100=2%

    maximum eficiency for carnot?


    1-cold focus/hot focus=1.3%
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm View Post
    well so ill be critical with both education and myself and obtain eficiency myself:

    http://energy.sdsu.edu/testhome/Test/solve/basics/tables/tablesPC/TSatR12.html

    t
    he vapur pressure with a gradient of five degrees its 100 kpa

    this means the wheel can work with 10 m diametrum on a 5 gradient

    how much work is that for kg of r12?

    1*10*10=100 J

    whats the internal energy difference for 5
    around 5 J/kg

    U variation=Q-W
    5=Q-100

    Q=105

    eficiency=w/q=100/105=95% eficiency

    negelcting a ten percent of mechanical lost it gives the 85% figure matching the claimed author eficiency
    It doesn't look like you learned any thermodynamics either.
    Look at equation 3 here. Carnot cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Carnot thermodynamic efficiency is 1-Tc/Th
    For a 5 degree difference, assume Tc is 293K and Th is 298K. This gives 1-293/298 = .017. That's 1.7 percent efficiency.
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    i rectified that in my next post check it out

    the eficiency of this cycle is equal to carnots if not bigger
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm View Post
    well so ill be critical with both education and myself and obtain eficiency myself:

    http://energy.sdsu.edu/testhome/Test/solve/basics/tables/tablesPC/TSatR12.html

    t
    he vapur pressure with a gradient of five degrees its 100 kpa

    this means the wheel can work with 10 m diametrum on a 5 gradient

    how much work is that for kg of r12?

    1*10*10=100 J

    whats the internal energy difference for 5
    around 5 J/kg

    U variation=Q-W
    5=Q-100

    Q=105

    eficiency=w/q=100/105=95% eficiency

    negelcting a ten percent of mechanical lost it gives the 85% figure matching the claimed author eficiency
    It doesn't look like you learned any thermodynamics either.
    Look at equation 3 here. Carnot cycle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The Carnot thermodynamic efficiency is 1-Tc/Th
    For a 5 degree difference, assume Tc is 293K and Th is 298K. This gives 1-293/298 = .017. That's 1.7 percent efficiency.
    check out this calculation:

    eficiency=w/q=
    in the worst case: 100/5100=2%

    actually:
    1.96%
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  18. #17  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm View Post
    check out this calculation:

    eficiency=w/q=
    in the worst case: 100/5100=2%

    actually:
    1.96%
    ...which is a far cry from those 85% you initially suggested. In either case, totally insufficient to run a car on, unless of course you are in the Sahara dessert with a water reservoir the size of an olympic swimming pool on your roof !
    I for my part will stick to the good old petrol engine until such time when something better and cheaper comes along for general use. It seems doubtful that this will take the form of a Minto wheel though...
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  19. #18  
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    Now a mentho/coke wheel....that's a different story
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm View Post
    check out this calculation:

    eficiency=w/q=
    in the worst case: 100/5100=2%

    actually:
    1.96%
    ...which is a far cry from those 85% you initially suggested. In either case, totally insufficient to run a car on, unless of course you are in the Sahara dessert with a water reservoir the size of an olympic swimming pool on your roof !
    I for my part will stick to the good old petrol engine until such time when something better and cheaper comes along for general use. It seems doubtful that this will take the form of a Minto wheel though...
    yest i mistook kj by j

    still better eficiency than carnot the maximum SUPPOSED eficiency
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm View Post
    still better eficiency than carnot the maximum SUPPOSED eficiency
    If you think you can build an engine that has better efficiency than the Carnot efficiency, then you ought to go ahead and build it. You'll get a Nobel prize, because that would violate one or two laws of thermodynamics. My money is on Carnot.
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    and what if i build it and they send me to a secret island?

    i was gonna ask my teacher about this but seeing in the worse case eficiency is better than carnot i better shut up

    btw ill build it when all stock markets fall leaders get in jail and all info except weapons gets declasified and people starts living in natural cohoperatives were mnoey is useless

    ill work on the cohoperative building these wheels to have enrgy for internet in the tomato filed

    edit:

    oh my stomcah still itches with the diefinition of funtionable according thermo

    two ingeneers propose two different thermal engines which works and which doesnt:

    A)an engine which works on love with eficiency under 1-(t1/t2)

    B)a minto wheel with eficiency slightly over 1-(t1/t2)

    note due to probability acountant if you get it wrong you get negative score
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  23. #22  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm View Post
    and what if i build it and they send me to a secret island?
    Much as I wish they would, I can see no reason why they would. (And who are "they", anyway?)

    i was gonna ask my teacher about this but seeing in the worse case eficiency is better than carnot i better shut up
    Or maybe your teacher will help you understand where you went wrong in your calculation.

    Or find out you are right and help you publish a paper that leads to you getting a Nobel prize.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luxtpm View Post
    and what if i build it and they send me to a secret island?

    i was gonna ask my teacher about this but seeing in the worse case eficiency is better than carnot i better shut up

    btw ill build it when all stock markets fall leaders get in jail and all info except weapons gets declasified and people starts living in natural cohoperatives were mnoey is useless

    ill work on the cohoperative building these wheels to have enrgy for internet in the tomato filed

    edit:

    oh my stomcah still itches with the diefinition of funtionable according thermo

    two ingeneers propose two different thermal engines which works and which doesnt:

    A)an engine which works on love with eficiency under 1-(t1/t2)

    B)a minto wheel with eficiency slightly over 1-(t1/t2)

    note due to probability acountant if you get it wrong you get negative score
    History shows that what develops from chaos is NOT utopia, see Europe, 1929-1945.
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