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Thread: Time is spherical, not linear

  1. #1 Time is spherical, not linear 
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    This thread is a philosophical/scientific blend so I decided to place it here. Lines blur when discussing the essence of time, space and reality.
    I will not be offended if it is moved.

    I have worked on rendering down my hypothesis of the essence of time. I call it spherical time (opposed to linear time). Hopefully by reducing a many thousands of words document to a few sentences will make it more accessible to the general reader who may not be interested in the incidentals of the larger, and a bit more complex document.

    Time is spherical. Space and time are one and the same. The universe is spherical and is rotating, thus time can be visualized as a "curve" within this temporal universe. Motion of mass equals time. Without motion there would be no time and hence no mass.

    I would wager that in the singularity of a black hole there is no motion. We agree that time stops at the event horizon of a black hole.

    Well, that’s how I see the universe, Gödel was a proponent of a rotating universe, and I agree that we are not yet ready for a paradigm shift of such titanic portions that accepting a Gödel universe as a fact would demand.

    : { >


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    Makes sense to me, at the moment.
    No motion=no time, curved space and time, Yeh, I'm on board, could be a rough ride though, knowing this lot


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  4. #3  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    What is our universe rotating in (or does that not matter)?

    If it changes the rotation direction does time change?

    If any of these questions make no sense it may be because I do not understand yet. I am a bit tired right now.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  5. #4  
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    Could you post a link to the document? I'm sure I'd get around to reading it one of these days, and it sounds intriguing. :-D
    <i8b4uUnderground> d-_-b
    <BonyNoMore> how u make that inverted b?
    <BonyNoMore> wait
    <BonyNoMore> never mind
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  6. #5  
    墨子 DaBOB's Avatar
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    Sorry this is off topic...

    .:Elusive.Neutrino:. are you the same person as Neutrino. If not did you know someone had that name?

    Isn't that vierd.

    -EDIT-

    Answering your answer in a way that does not take up space.

    I was just wondering. Someone else on this forum is named Neutrino so if you didn't know I thought I would let you know.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  7. #6  
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    Elusive Neutrino has been my screen name forever. I apologize to anyone who may feel that I was intruding on the territory of another.
    <i8b4uUnderground> d-_-b
    <BonyNoMore> how u make that inverted b?
    <BonyNoMore> wait
    <BonyNoMore> never mind
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  8. #7  
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    doesnt make any sense, time goes even if you would against all odds manish to put all bodies to stop relative to all other bodies
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by .:Elusive.Neutrino:.
    Elusive Neutrino has been my screen name forever. I apologize to anyone who may feel that I was intruding on the territory of another.
    WOW a Film Star :-D :-D :-D
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by .:Elusive.Neutrino:.
    Elusive Neutrino has been my screen name forever. I apologize to anyone who may feel that I was intruding on the territory of another.
    Doesn't bother me!
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  11. #10  
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    Are you a tau or muon neutrino? (If you are an electron neutrino, then we have problems.)
    <i8b4uUnderground> d-_-b
    <BonyNoMore> how u make that inverted b?
    <BonyNoMore> wait
    <BonyNoMore> never mind
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  12. #11  
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    if you are anyone of them we have problems
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  13. #12 a boundary 
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    what does the universe...
    The easiest way to visualize the expanding rotating universe is first to ensure that you realize that everything is expanding, that of course would include so called space time, even the atoms themselves as well as their constituent’ particles are expanding as they too are in space time, everything is expanding. There is no edge or boundary, to the universe according to science.

    I, however, know that there is a boundary, but that is another thread.

    : { >
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  14. #13 many nuter 
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    Are you a tau or muon neutrino? (If you are an electron neutrino, then we have problems.)
    Yes, I know many scientists that are like neutrinos, no mass or substance to them at all. Or maybe that should be Nuter trin Os?

    ; { >
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  15. #14  
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    no mass? neutrinos have mass
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  16. #15 Re: many nuter 
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    Quote Originally Posted by REV ROSWELL
    Yes, I know many scientists that are like neutrinos, no mass or substance to them at all. Or maybe that should be Nuter trin Os?
    I am offended. I most definitely have mass. 2.2 eV, to be exact.
    <i8b4uUnderground> d-_-b
    <BonyNoMore> how u make that inverted b?
    <BonyNoMore> wait
    <BonyNoMore> never mind
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  17. #16  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    approximently, but he only says that becuase he dont know better
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  18. #17  
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    I am offended. I most definitely have mass. 2.2 eV, to be exact.
    a neutrino has mass



    Oh, ok, heh, I should of said nearly without mass. most neutrinos produced in the sun with a energy of a couple of MeV would take approximately one light year of lead to block half of them.

    Rather more mass than some of above scientists have back bone still ...~~~ Rev is stroking goatee ~~~ getting rather technical on the rev here...

    : } >
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  19. #18  
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    what do you have against scientists? does it bother you they know the world better than you do?
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  20. #19  
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    what do you have against scientists? does it bother you they know the world better than you do?
    I love science, really! I am a serious amateur astronomer, and a devoted naturalist. Maybe some (scientists) know some aspects of science better than I. (I worked as a research scientist for five years). I just hate the idea haters, and nazis that would only have you hear the lies that they believe as truth.

    By the way, knowing science does not allow one to know the world, it only gives them a model on how to visualize the world and universe. If we had true knowledge of the universe we would not be puttering around the local solar system in chemical rockets and pooping on our tiny planet , death and disease wouldn't exist, and we would all know that god DOES exist.

    That my brother (in blood) is the great truth that secular humanistic science doctrine wants to deny you. Hey its has worked as the flawed darwism world veiw is only now being dismantled bit by corroded bit.

    So that I am not misquoted again, I love science its the secular humanist agenda that most science promotes that I loathe.



    ; } >
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  21. #20 the un profound zelos crystal ball ism 
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    what do you have against scientists? does it bother you they know the world better than you do?

    I have already replied to that question. By "know the world better than I" , what crystal ball did you gaze into to come up with that bit of un profound wisdom?

    I corrospond with a few of what I would call "brilliant scientists" , but they are limitied in that while they know thier field of study very well, thier general knowlage is far more shallow than that of most "laypersons".

    : } >
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  22. #21  
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    I love science, really! I am a serious amateur astronomer, and a devoted naturalist. Maybe some (scientists) know some aspects of science better than I. (I worked as a research scientist for five years). I just hate the idea haters, and nazis that would only have you hear the lies that they believe as truth.
    three words, christians in USA

    By the way, knowing science does not allow one to know the world, it only gives them a model on how to visualize the world and universe. If we had true knowledge of the universe we would not be puttering around the local solar system in chemical rockets and pooping on our tiny planet , death and disease wouldn't exist, and we would all know that god DOES exist.
    i agree on everything BUT, we would be ASBOLUTLY sure that god DOES NOT exist becuase we dont need him/it

    Maybe some (scientists) know some aspects of science better than I
    dont you mean maybe 99,9999.....% of them?
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  23. #22  
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    three words, christians in USA

    I am amazed by the (lack of) thought that you put into your replies, the issue here is time not my personal beliefs, please stay on topic.

    we would be ASBOLUTLY sure that god DOES NOT exist becuase we dont need him/it
    We need God , now more than ever, witness (heh) prophesy written thousands of years ago , coming true before our eyes.

    A messenger from God gave us a simple lesson that we haven't implemented yet. When we do , and we will, learn the truth of that simple message, we may live long enough as a species to bloom as a race and reach for, and touch the stars.

    If we dont learn this simple bibical message we will die as a stupid selfish race.

    Yes, I get a bit melodramatic when I think of what god wants for mankind, and then I turn on CNN and get slammed back to our satanic reality.

    The reality of the world is, millions starving in Africa in a world awash with cheap food, war in the middle east , diseases and pain, and the selfish nature of the haves vs the have not's.

    it truly sucks.

    unless you are in denial and most of us are.



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  24. #23  
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    stupid selfish race.
    we have allawys been and allways will be it

    We need God , now more than ever, witness (heh) prophesy written thousands of years ago , coming true before our eyes.
    yet he never do anything for us, if he exists. Its allways we who have to solve our problems, its allways us, never him. He dont even give us a finger point on where to go, its allways we who have to do all the work. he never has, never do, never will help us. Therefor we dont need him

    it truly sucks.
    depends on your attitude, i am a posetive person so i think posetive like "atleast i am not in trouble". But yeah it isnt perfect but what the hell its life.

    God is a evil sadistic homocidal maniac whos biggest enjoyment is the suffering of others. If he isnt he would help people
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  25. #24  
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    There's a lot of flaming on this forum. :?
    <i8b4uUnderground> d-_-b
    <BonyNoMore> how u make that inverted b?
    <BonyNoMore> wait
    <BonyNoMore> never mind
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  26. #25  
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    atleast not direcly on each other
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by .:Elusive.Neutrino:.
    There's a lot of flaming on this forum. :?
    We try to run a fairly loose ship. If people get really nasty they will be stepped on.
    Most posters can give as good as they get, and have the good sense to avoid wholly unacceptable attacks or language.
    If any particular comment upsets you please feel free to pm any moderator, raising the issue with him/her. A lot of the moderation that goes on, goes on behind the scenes with gentle pm's requesting that attacks be toned down and focus on the facts not the personalities. This seems to work well enough, but your thoughts are always welcome.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by REV ROSWELL
    ...knowing science does not allow one to know the world, it only gives them a model on how to visualize the world...
    I'm gonna make a wall paper out of this. So simple yet, so true.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by REV ROSWELL
    The reality of the world is, millions starving in Africa in a world awash with cheap food, war in the middle east , diseases and pain, and the selfish nature of the haves vs the have not's.
    "The world has enough for everyone's need, but not enough for everyone's greed"--Mohandas Gandhi

    Also so simple and yet, so true. I find that most things that could improve our world are in fact simple. Makes me wonder if I really need this computer... wait... I don't have to wonder about that... I know I don't need it. I shall keep it for now. My time has not yet come, but it it will!!
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  30. #29  
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    lol nerd these days =D
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  31. #30 OPEYS CENSORSHIP 
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    I CANNOT RESPOND TO THIS THREAD DUE TO CENSORSHIP FROM A MODERATOR (OPEY).

    I WILL BE ON A SELF-IMPOSED RADICAL SABBITICAL FOR AN INDEFINITE PERIOD OF TIME.

    THANKS FOR THE MEMORYS...HEH

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  32. #31 Re: OPEYS CENSORSHIP 
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    Quote Originally Posted by REV ROSWELL
    I CANNOT RESPOND TO THIS THREAD DUE TO CENSORSHIP FROM A MODERATOR (OPEY).

    I WILL BE ON A SELF-IMPOSED RADICAL SABBITICAL FOR AN INDEFINITE PERIOD OF TIME.

    THANKS FOR THE MEMORYS...HEH

    ; { >
    This is one sure way of making us want to see your posting, come on Opey cut out the swear words by all means,[ but I bet there were not any.] As you have said before we are adults, lets have a look. Please,
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  33. #32  
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    Official Announcement
    The Rev Roswell was asked to reduce the number of personal attacks made in his posts.
    Rather than do so he sent a number of strongly worded pm's in which he made personally offensive remarks, continued his personal attacks, accused (without substantiation) this forum of persecuting Christians, and lambasted us for censorship.

    Regulars on the forum will know that we tolerate (and sometimes indulge in :wink: ) occasional, low key, personal remarks. The majority of you have the good sense to keep these to a minimum, often accompanied by humour. On the few occassions when the boundaries are crossed a gentle comment from a moderator is sufficient to bring things back into line. The Rev Roswell clearly feels these guidelines and methods are not for him.

    Prior to his current outburst I had challenged his contention that the forum persecuted Christians, noting that a) I personally treated Christians with exactly the same contempt I treated atheists! b)disagreeing with a belief system is not the same thing as persecuting it. I asked him to cite examples of where Christians had been persecuted. When he failed to do so I asked again, both within the forum and by pm. He chose not to, or was unable to provide examples.

    The only censorship we have applid to Rev Roswell is to ask that he desist from personal attacks on other members, regardless of who they are.

    Since I have imposed that requirement against personal attacks on Rev Roswell it seems only appropriate I should apply it to myself in this context. This prevents me sharing with you my opinion on the Rev. Is that censorship? 8)

    If any of you feel that your views have been censored, or that your religion has been persecuted, please feel free to contact myself or any other moderator by pm, or within the public pages of the forum.

    Finally, Rev Roswell, as has always been the case, you are free to post whatever you wish as long as it does not constitute a personal attack. Alternatively you may pursue a path of claiming persecution where none exists and declaring censorship, where none exists. The choice is yours.

    Thank you.

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    Ok well ill attempt to get this back on the forum topic. In my opinion I think time is something that does not exist in the real world. Time is only something that us humans have made up to give us a better understanding. The only actual time that exists is present. There is no future or past, because when they existed it was also present. However it does help us solve everyday problems. Its like negative numbers. In this reality there cannot be anything negative. For example if I had 2 apples and i owed my friend 4 apples, that does not meani have -2 apples. It means that i have 0 apples, and when I obtain 2 apples I must give them to my friend. The only thing that does confuse me is time being warped by mass, and time being warped by speed. For example if you go light speed for a long time, and come back you will still be young compared to the people that did not go that speed. Modern science says this with relativity and it boggles my mind. Also the point that the time on satalites will be slightly off from the time on the earth, because of curved time from mass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rudeboyokuma
    Ok well ill attempt to get this back on the forum topic. In my opinion I think time is something that does not exist in the real world. Time is only something that us humans have made up to give us a better understanding. The only actual time that exists is present. There is no future or past, because when they existed it was also present. However it does help us solve everyday problems. Its like negative numbers. In this reality there cannot be anything negative. For example if I had 2 apples and i owed my friend 4 apples, that does not meani have -2 apples. It means that i have 0 apples, and when I obtain 2 apples I must give them to my friend. The only thing that does confuse me is time being warped by mass, and time being warped by speed. For example if you go light speed for a long time, and come back you will still be young compared to the people that did not go that speed. Modern science says this with relativity and it boggles my mind. Also the point that the time on satalites will be slightly off from the time on the earth, because of curved time from mass.
    If time only exists in the present, how come we can produce a regular beat, say on a drum? we MUST be able to experience the [immediate] past and the present, at the same time. The only way I have ever been able to reolve this is to see time as Multidimensional, all going the same way but delayed by various amounts. Space is [generally] regarded as '3D' why not consider time as having mutiple but parallel dimensions? If you like 'layered' then the faster you move, the deeper into the layers you go and the more 'shifted' is the time. If I had another ten years to go away and think about it I might even be able to topple AL.


    Edit:

    I have just looked back at the early posts. It may be a coincidence but I remember a very similar idea being touted around in the 1970's it was published (can't remember where) on April 1st (that I do remember) and indicated that All time, space and matter existed 'spherically' ie as a load of balls. I would like to ask the Rev if he is aware of this, and if so if he could remind of the publication in which it was originally printed.
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rudeboyokuma
    Time is only something that us humans have made up to give us a better understanding. The only actual time that exists is present. There is no future or past, because when they existed it was also present.
    I think my view on topic is the opposite of yours. Not only do I believe that the past and future are "real", but that they are both JUST AS real as the present. If you accept time as a dimension of the universe (which for now, I do) then you have to treat time similiarly as those spatial dimensions. The past, present, and future "just are" in the same way that up, down, left, and right exist. We don't exist at one particular moment in time, our existence stretches along our worldline and our past and future are every bit as important in defining ourselves as the present.
    The passage of time is exprienced by inhabitants within the universe, but to an "outside" observer the universe consists of not only all points in space, but all points in time as well.
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    Quote Originally Posted by rudeboyokuma
    Time is only something that us humans have made up to give us a better understanding. The only actual time that exists is present. There is no future or past, because when they existed it was also present.
    I think my view on topic is the opposite of yours. Not only do I believe that the past and future are "real", but that they are both JUST AS real as the present. If you accept time as a dimension of the universe (which for now, I do) then you have to treat time similiarly as those spatial dimensions. The past, present, and future "just are" in the same way that up, down, left, and right exist. We don't exist at one particular moment in time, our existence stretches along our worldline and our past and future are every bit as important in defining ourselves as the present.
    The passage of time is exprienced by inhabitants within the universe, but to an "outside" observer the universe consists of not only all points in space, but all points in time as well.
    Interesting, if you can perceive someone 'outside' the universe, then to them the universe would be infinitly old! - when it was the size of an orange it's clock would have run much slower than the one for the guy standing outside! - This is why I maintain that Stephen Hawking's Integrated Theory is just that!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    Quote Originally Posted by rudeboyokuma
    Time is only something that us humans have made up to give us a better understanding. The only actual time that exists is present. There is no future or past, because when they existed it was also present.
    I think my view on topic is the opposite of yours. Not only do I believe that the past and future are "real", but that they are both JUST AS real as the present. If you accept time as a dimension of the universe (which for now, I do) then you have to treat time similiarly as those spatial dimensions. The past, present, and future "just are" in the same way that up, down, left, and right exist. We don't exist at one particular moment in time, our existence stretches along our worldline and our past and future are every bit as important in defining ourselves as the present.
    The passage of time is exprienced by inhabitants within the universe, but to an "outside" observer the universe consists of not only all points in space, but all points in time as well.
    I do not think you are gettitng my point. It is impossible to experience the past or future. We can use things that we know from the present or past to predict the future, but we cannot experience the future or past. How do you explain perception of time. To humans, time can seem to slow, or speed up. To other things or species, the life span of a human may seem like a blink of an eye. We percieve that there is a past, and that there will be a future, but in literal terms there is only present. As for the beating drums, we can use what we know from the past or present to predict the future. But we cannot experience the future. You cannot change either the past or future, because the past has already happened, and the future has not happened yet. And defining ourselves has nothing to do with what I am talking about. But i do agree with that point that if we were to define ourselves we would need to include our history.
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  39. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by rudeboyokuma
    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    Quote Originally Posted by rudeboyokuma
    Time is only something that us humans have made up to give us a better understanding. The only actual time that exists is present. There is no future or past, because when they existed it was also present.
    I think my view on topic is the opposite of yours. Not only do I believe that the past and future are "real", but that they are both JUST AS real as the present. If you accept time as a dimension of the universe (which for now, I do) then you have to treat time similiarly as those spatial dimensions. The past, present, and future "just are" in the same way that up, down, left, and right exist. We don't exist at one particular moment in time, our existence stretches along our worldline and our past and future are every bit as important in defining ourselves as the present.
    The passage of time is exprienced by inhabitants within the universe, but to an "outside" observer the universe consists of not only all points in space, but all points in time as well.
    I do not think you are gettitng my point. It is impossible to experience the past or future. We can use things that we know from the present or past to predict the future, but we cannot experience the future or past. How do you explain perception of time. To humans, time can seem to slow, or speed up. To other things or species, the life span of a human may seem like a blink of an eye. We percieve that there is a past, and that there will be a future, but in literal terms there is only present. As for the beating drums, we can use what we know from the past or present to predict the future. But we cannot experience the future. You cannot change either the past or future, because the past has already happened, and the future has not happened yet. And defining ourselves has nothing to do with what I am talking about. But i do agree with that point that if we were to define ourselves we would need to include our history.
    Well it seems that you are the one missing MY point, but it's interesting that so many posts start with that assertion. Where did I say anything about experiencing the past or the future? I said that they are as "real" as the present because they are as much a PART OF OUR UNIVERSE as the present is - but I did not say that we, as inhabitants in this universe, experience the past and the future as we do the present. Quite the contrary, I specified I was talking about an observer of the universe from an "outside" or "universal" perspective, viewing a 4D (or however many you like, as long as time is included) universe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    Quote Originally Posted by rudeboyokuma
    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrino
    Quote Originally Posted by rudeboyokuma
    Time is only something that us humans have made up to give us a better understanding. The only actual time that exists is present. There is no future or past, because when they existed it was also present.
    I think my view on topic is the opposite of yours. Not only do I believe that the past and future are "real", but that they are both JUST AS real as the present. If you accept time as a dimension of the universe (which for now, I do) then you have to treat time similiarly as those spatial dimensions. The past, present, and future "just are" in the same way that up, down, left, and right exist. We don't exist at one particular moment in time, our existence stretches along our worldline and our past and future are every bit as important in defining ourselves as the present.
    The passage of time is exprienced by inhabitants within the universe, but to an "outside" observer the universe consists of not only all points in space, but all points in time as well.
    I do not think you are gettitng my point. It is impossible to experience the past or future. We can use things that we know from the present or past to predict the future, but we cannot experience the future or past. How do you explain perception of time. To humans, time can seem to slow, or speed up. To other things or species, the life span of a human may seem like a blink of an eye. We percieve that there is a past, and that there will be a future, but in literal terms there is only present. As for the beating drums, we can use what we know from the past or present to predict the future. But we cannot experience the future. You cannot change either the past or future, because the past has already happened, and the future has not happened yet. And defining ourselves has nothing to do with what I am talking about. But i do agree with that point that if we were to define ourselves we would need to include our history.
    Well it seems that you are the one missing MY point, but it's interesting that so many posts start with that assertion. Where did I say anything about experiencing the past or the future? I said that they are as "real" as the present because they are as much a PART OF OUR UNIVERSE as the present is - but I did not say that we, as inhabitants in this universe, experience the past and the future as we do the present. Quite the contrary, I specified I was talking about an observer of the universe from an "outside" or "universal" perspective, viewing a 4D (or however many you like, as long as time is included) universe.
    No i get your point exactly, it just dosn't make sense. If you can't experience the past or future, then it can't be real. If we can't experience it, they are but only memories, illusions, and predictions. Time is just merely ideal for our human brains to comprehend something.
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    Yahh!! Billco, nice one, I hate steven hawkings!!! People pity him, or becasue he has a book but all the same, he's a pretentious idiot!! Have you guys read his book. its like his life, He comes up with a theory that has no real basis and assumes everyone will grasp his great wisdom....
    The hate is strong in me recently he said the world is ending..... yes it is steven, well done. *when*.....*don't know*.....*oh, thats nice steven*
    Greatest signature ever coming soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanorman
    Yahh!! Billco, nice one, I hate steven hawkings!!! People pity him, or becasue he has a book but all the same, he's a pretentious idiot!! Have you guys read his book. its like his life, He comes up with a theory that has no real basis and assumes everyone will grasp his great wisdom....
    The hate is strong in me recently he said the world is ending..... yes it is steven, well done. *when*.....*don't know*.....*oh, thats nice steven*
    My personal favourite 'Hawking gem' is the depletion of black holes known as "Hawking Radiation", this will not be seen for about 10^70 years, we think the universe will be dead before it gets to 10^11 years, so in my book hawking radiation is crap, especially if you look at the tweedle-dee tweedle-dum nature of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanorman
    Yahh!! Billco, nice one, I hate steven hawkings!!! People pity him, or becasue he has a book but all the same, he's a pretentious idiot!!
    That is certainly an interesting viewpoint. Perhaps he is not, as many experienced, knowledgeable physicists believe, the greatest living scientist; or the greatest scientist since Newton; or, since Einstein; but he is a considerable distance from being a pretentious idiot.

    Perhaps, you could suggest one or two of the points that are idiotic in his major work:
    Hawking, S. W. & Ellis, G. F. R. (1973). The Large Scale Structure of Space-time. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-09906-4

    I'm looking forward to that. 8)
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    If momentum and energy is preserved, then since mass can become photons that moves in the speed of light and the mass is preserved the normal mass also moves in the speed of light. It is the direction it moves in that we call time. That time seems spherical is because one dimension is the other alike and there is no difference between one dimension and the other. I would call it fourdimensional room or perhaps fourdimensional time, it would make just as much sence as calling it a room with three coordinates and time.
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    rev ros....time is something ive been wondering about lately, there seems to be more to it, if u know what i mean. I am no scientist and my knowledge in science is somewhat limited to igh school theories and a few books here and there but here are my thoughts....

    The easiest way to visualize the expanding rotating universe is first to ensure that you realize that everything is expanding...
    what sticks in my mind is expanding ROTATING universe....i dont know what ur views are on superstring theory but imagine if the universe itself is a mere vibrating rotating string of energy, with matter actually being exceptionally uncertain energy....ok that actually sound more like fiction than fact and off the topic anyway

    time!

    sometimes i like to think of the universe as one instantaneous moment, what is going to happen has all ready happened, the past is the present and the present is instantaneous...the whole entire universe existing as a spontaneous quantum physical partical, its destruction as volatile and uncertain as its creation....

    what also makes sense to me is time being absolute ie: independant of all reference, proceeding at a fixed rate. in other words independant of mechanical clocks...clocks ALWAYS after a period of time (he he...time) lose a second or to. no two clock will ever show the exct time because one is always referenced to another and somewere along the line seconds, minutes are lost. so it appars obvious that time is absolute.....

    slightly contradicting this is the fact that space-time are considered one like u say, space cannot "exist" without time and time cannot "exist" without space forming a space time continuim - or at least this is what i have read...this concept leads me to believe that there is more to time than what meets the eye!

    u say time is sperical which is strange, if u think about it a sphere is never ending. i oce watched an ant walk round and round and round the edge of a potplant, it was just walking round and round and round! for about 10 minutes maybe more! so in a twisted way spheres are "infinite"

    i have also read that -if obeying quantum laws - at exceptionally short time intervals time takes the form of space, actually forming another dimension of space!

    so ja, i dont know quite were i am going with this but i suppose i will conclude that TIME DOES NOT EXIST!!!!
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    heeeeey! reading te posts made me think! heehee! doesnt appen often :wink: tere seems to be somthing wrong with my h key so if a talk funny, u know why.....um ja, imagine we had no memory at all, could not remember the past second and our ability to imagine and percieve were taken away, what would time be to us? what is time to a plant? does time exist as it is if there is no one to percieve it? surely there is more to time than pulses passing eac other tic toc tic toc there! one just passed and another one how do u stop it? there goes more time....its not matter its not energy, surely then it must be space??? and space is not sperical!!!
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  47. #46 actually rev roswell.......... 
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    You are completely wrong on one point !!

    Yes, the universe IS expanding; but no, the consituent parts are NOT expanding with it !!!

    If they WERE then we would not experience the universe to be expanding at all !!!
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

    www.leohopkins.com
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  48. #47  
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    Yes !!!
    Gotta !!!
    Love !!! bad... PUNCTUATION!!!!!!!!!! aNd,,,GRAMMUR!

    to be serious, that is the dumbest thing I've heard. It can easily be explained away as "Some parts are expanding faster than others"

    Note: I have not read through this thread, and just responded to that one statement. I step out of further debate regarding it.
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  49. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    doesnt make any sense, time goes even if you would against all odds manish to put all bodies to stop relative to all other bodies
    You can be wrong, Zelos. Consider that time is only change. If there is no change taking place, how could there be time? All clocks report is the change going on inside them!

    charles, http://humanpurpose.simplenet.com
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