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Thread: Possible cure for mental illness.

  1. #1 Possible cure for mental illness. 
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    I believe the human mind is formed and governed primarily by experience and human contact.

    To cure an ill mind one must expose that person to a healthy environment and healthy people.

    If it is possible to decode the human mind on the computer perhaps one could make an artificial brain.

    Using this artificial brain one could cure mental illness by linking the brains of the ill person and the artificial brain together so that they communicate information.

    As information from the healthy artificial brain is transferred into the brain of the unhealthy person perhaps the mental illness will be cured.


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  3. #2 Re: Possible cure for mental illness. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmatt9876
    I believe the human mind is formed and governed primarily by experience and human contact.

    To cure an ill mind one must expose that person to a healthy environment and healthy people.

    If it is possible to decode the human mind on the computer perhaps one could make an artificial brain.

    Using this artificial brain one could cure mental illness by linking the brains of the ill person and the artificial brain together so that they communicate information.

    As information from the healthy artificial brain is transferred into the brain of the unhealthy person perhaps the mental illness will be cured.
    Are you a simulation ?

    A beta test perhaps ?


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  4. #3 Re: Possible cure for mental illness. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket

    Are you a simulation ?

    A beta test perhaps ?
    I am not taking about erasing someones mind and controlling they're thinking just exposing the brain and mind to new experiences and feelings so that thinking is corrected in the long run.
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  5. #4  
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    My goal is not to make a bunch of brain clones just to even out mentally ill people so they think cleaner. As neural activity from the two brains mingle the ill person should even out a bit I think.
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  6. #5  
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    I am really sorry if this sounds like mind control or anything funky like that. That is not what i want.
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  7. #6 your two first sentences are correct, 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmatt9876
    I am really sorry if this sounds like mind control or anything funky like that. That is not what i want.
    Do not worry so much about the ideations of a paranoiac.

    However, in your initial message, your two first sentences are correct, though without real information.
    And the three last are silly.

    Now comes the real questions :
    Why do YOU feel the need of such a theory ?
    What are YOUR needs in autotheory ?
    What will be YOUR criteria for qualifying something or somebody as "ill" or "healthy" ?
    And why these criteria (for YOU) ?
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  8. #7 Re: your two first sentences are correct, 
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau

    However, in your initial message, your two first sentences are correct, though without real information.
    And the three last are silly.

    Now comes the real questions :
    Why do YOU feel the need of such a theory ?
    What are YOUR needs in autotheory ?
    What will be YOUR criteria for qualifying something or somebody as "ill" or "healthy" ?
    And why these criteria (for YOU) ?
    I believe my theory is possible and can help the ill.

    Anybody mentally ill would be applicable.

    A clean mind should be available for anybody ill who cannot think for themselves.
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  9. #8  
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    But the question was 'how will you define mentally ill?'
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    But the question was 'how will you define mentally ill?'
    Somebody who has a mental disease like depression or schizophrenia.
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  11. #10  
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    Altering the data set will not address the problem of a malfunctioning processor.
    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    Altering the data set will not address the problem of a malfunctioning processor.
    In a human brain the neurons can form new connections. The artificial brain does this buy communicating healthy information to the unhealthy brain.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmatt9876
    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    Altering the data set will not address the problem of a malfunctioning processor.
    In a human brain the neurons can form new connections. The artificial brain does this buy communicating healthy information to the unhealthy brain.
    Do you have any professionnal training in this field ?
    Please tell us what is your background.
    And previously I have asked you four questions, and you did not begin answering them.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmatt9876
    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    Altering the data set will not address the problem of a malfunctioning processor.
    In a human brain the neurons can form new connections. The artificial brain does this buy communicating healthy information to the unhealthy brain.
    Well okay, there is long term potentiation. But what about a case where that mechanism has been altered?
    Or the neurophysiology is incapable of properly processing the introduced data set?

    And by what criteria do you establish the difference between a "healthy" and "unhealthy" data set?
    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Quote Originally Posted by mmatt9876
    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    Altering the data set will not address the problem of a malfunctioning processor.
    In a human brain the neurons can form new connections. The artificial brain does this buy communicating healthy information to the unhealthy brain.
    Do you have any professionnal training in this field ?
    Please tell us what is your background.
    And previously I have asked you four questions, and you did not begin answering them.
    I currently have no background or professional training in any science field.
    Here are my answers to your questions:
    1) I feel a need for my theory because mental illness is a life changing condition.
    2) Sorry, I did not understand question 2.
    3) My criteria for qualifying somebody or something ill would be the presence of a mental disorder. My criteria for qualifying somebody healthy would be the presence of no mental disorder.
    4) I chose these criteria because the presence of a mental disorder is the reason for the therapy.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    Quote Originally Posted by mmatt9876
    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    Altering the data set will not address the problem of a malfunctioning processor.
    In a human brain the neurons can form new connections. The artificial brain does this buy communicating healthy information to the unhealthy brain.
    Well okay, there is long term potentiation. But what about a case where that mechanism has been altered?
    Or the neurophysiology is incapable of properly processing the introduced data set?

    And by what criteria do you establish the difference between a "healthy" and "unhealthy" data set?
    In the case the mechanism has been altered there should be a program in place to protect the user. This artificial brain is no longer healthy.
    In the case the brain is unable to process the information the device should not be used. The brain has to be healthy enough to communicate with the artificial brain.
    A healthy data set would be the mind of somebody with no mental disorder.
    An unhealthy data set would be the mind of a mentally ill person.
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  17. #16  
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    Are you forgetting that many mental illnesses come from lack of certain chemicals, parts, birth defects, genes...
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15uliane
    Are you forgetting that many mental illnesses come from lack of certain chemicals, parts, birth defects, genes...
    These kinds of illnesses would not work with my idea. You would have to repair the lost parts and genes with cells and genes harvested and grown from a normal person first.
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  19. #18  
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    So you are talking more of things like PTSD and shock etc. Experience based disorders?
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15uliane
    So you are talking more of things like PTSD and shock etc. Experience based disorders?
    Any disorder where the brain is physically normal. The psychological aspect is what I aim to cure by linking the minds together.
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  21. #20 I wonder where this thread will go, 
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    I wonder where this thread will go, and do not more intervene in it.

    Good luck !
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  22. #21  
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    We mustn't forget that neuroplasticity is responsive to stimuli; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity
    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    We mustn't forget that neuroplasticity is responsive to stimuli; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroplasticity
    I believe the brain is responsive to magnetic stimuli. Perhaps magnets could be used to induce relaxation in an ill person when they are having an attack. Furthermore an artificial brain could be used to to even out thinking and feeling by magnets.

    The process works by recording the thinking of a healthy person at the deepest possible level. Second the recording is played back for the patient in their minds to clean away psychosis and such.

    What I would want is a device that can work at the level of the neuron so that thinking and feeling patterns can be evened out. Perhaps a computer chip would be implanted to form a strong connection. I don't really understand the human brain or computers so I am leaving it all up to you guys. I really hope to help mentally ill patients to deal with their problems. I myself am a schizophrenic.
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  24. #23  
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    Total and complete balony. I dare you to cite one REAL scientific study that supports that.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmatt9876
    I believe the brain is responsive to magnetic stimuli. Perhaps magnets could be used to induce relaxation in an ill person when they are having an attack.
    It is. In much the same way that the brain responds to electric stimuli (like with electroconvulsive therapy), it also responds to magnetic stimuli. If you're interested, you should spend some time exploring work with transcranial magnetic stimulation. Basically, they are able to use a highly specialized and focused magnetic field and direct it towards certain areas of the brain to trigger specific responses. It's pretty neat.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcr...ic_stimulation
    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/tra...lation/MY00185


    If we're able to generate a focused and clear magnetic signal through an implant, I see no reason why what you suggest could not be done. It could calm some areas while stimulating the release of hormones and neurotransmitters related to relaxation. However, to make that happen would require some rather sophisticated technology and really powerful interpretive and predictive programming.


    Have you seen the work being done with paraplegic patients, things like Braingate and the ability to communicate with computers via thought? It's peripherally related, and really very cool (although, it's about thoughts causing action in technology, not technology causing action in thoughts). I think this work was originally funded by the military to allow pilots to control planes without involvement from their muscles. What made me think of it, though, is your suggestion about implants and the way this company has seen such success with the setup their neural interface. It could also be used to analyze seizures in real-time, and potentially even trigger a magnetic or electric impulse elsewhere in the brain to counteract the effect:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrainGate




    Quote Originally Posted by MeteorWayne
    Total and complete balony. I dare you to cite one REAL scientific study that supports that.
    On this one, you may have been a bit too quick on the draw, McGraw. There's a lot of valid science supporting the above possibility. Maybe not yet at the level he's proposing, but also not as far away as you might think.
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  26. #25 Needs in autotheories... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmatt9876
    ... I really hope to help mentally ill patients to deal with their problems. I myself am a schizophrenic.
    Thank you for the main information.

    Now I'll try to explain the word "autotheory".
    Probably Pr Henri Jidouard created this word, as he used it in his teachings. It means that any building of a theory, has for first goals, to fulfill the affective(and social) needs of the theorist, maybe also the needs of the group(s) (s)he belongs to. Generally some unofficial and hidden goals...
    Other goals, the official ones may be mere magic cloaks to hide the real goals, the egocentric and ethnocentric goals.
    Lots of examples, the personal needs of Sigmund Freud and his autotheories to hide embarrassing family problems. The autotheories of Adler, of Moreno...

    A famous battle of autotheories has opposed Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr, too :
    http://deonto-famille.info/index.php?topic=22.0
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  27. #26  
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    I want you to ask your self.
    Define, Healthy. Define Ill?

    If not for the two words, would I be Healthy, would I be Ill?

    For if it were not for these words and everything connected to them this site, possibly this *defined* internet, would not exist.

    A sort of paradox, butterfly effect I the observer of billions of other observers, our conscious kin is prime to wield our defined existence.
    With bravery and recognition that we are harbingers of our destiny and with a paragon of virtue.
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  28. #27 Re: Needs in autotheories... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Now I'll try to explain the word "autotheory".
    When did you first become aware that you were suffering from this phenomenon.
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  29. #28 Re: Needs in autotheories... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Now I'll try to explain the word "autotheory".
    When did you first become aware that you were suffering from this phenomenon.
    May I suggest you to learn to read ?

    A malagasy proverb says :
    "The lie is like the early rice. It comes in time, but will not suffice for the whole year".
    Your faking is like the early rice : it comes in time to save your presence, but will not suffice for any real task.
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  30. #29 Re: Needs in autotheories... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Now I'll try to explain the word "autotheory".
    When did you first become aware that you were suffering from this phenomenon.
    May I suggest you to learn to read ?

    A malagasy proverb says :
    "The lie is like the early rice. It comes in time, but will not suffice for the whole year".
    Your faking is like the early rice : it comes in time to save your presence, but will not suffice for any real task.
    So, then your position is that "autotheory" is valid for everyone but yourself? That would be typical of peddlers of pomo babble.
    "I almost went to bed
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    I put in the button-hole
    of your green sweater

    and how i kissed you then
    and you kissed me
    shy as though I'd
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  31. #30 Re: Needs in autotheories... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Now I'll try to explain the word "autotheory".
    When did you first become aware that you were suffering from this phenomenon.
    May I suggest you to learn to read ?
    I suggest you learn to appreciate blatant sarcasm.
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  32. #31 Re: Needs in autotheories... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Now I'll try to explain the word "autotheory".
    When did you first become aware that you were suffering from this phenomenon.
    May I suggest you to learn to read ?

    A malagasy proverb says :
    "The lie is like the early rice. It comes in time, but will not suffice for the whole year".
    Your faking is like the early rice : it comes in time to save your presence, but will not suffice for any real task.
    So, then your position is ...
    Please remember me when in the hell I could entitle you to express my position as a spokesperson in replacement of myself.
    When I will be dead, of course you will make such impostures without the risk of a denial.
    Up to now, while I am alive, I remain the only writer who writes my position, and above all, my doubts and questions.

    While we are at it, was your mother, your father, or both, who taught you these tricks of cold civil war, this extreme dishonesty ?
    Please tell us what are the consequences in your professionnal life, and in your sentimental life, of such a drill to dishonesty as a way of life ?
    Who can trust you without soon regretting it ?
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  33. #32 Re: Needs in autotheories... 
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Please remember me when in the hell I could entitle you to express my position as a spokesperson in replacement of myself.
    When I will be dead, of course you will make such impostures without the risk of a denial.
    Up to now, while I am alive, I remain the only writer who writes my position, and above all, my doubts and questions.

    While we are at it, was your mother, your father, or both, who taught you these tricks of cold civil war, this extreme dishonesty ?
    Please tell us what are the consequences in your professionnal life, and in your sentimental life, of such a drill to dishonesty as a way of life ?
    Who can trust you without soon regretting it ?
    I wonder if you suffer from issues of reading comprehension. It was phrased as a question, thus obviously it was intended as a critique and to make you defend your position if you think the critique is invalid. Claiming I put words in your mouth then resorting to personal insult hardly justifies your self-righteous posturing.

    Indignation is a poor response to a critique. Ophi's facetious remark was keying in on the fact that this broad overstated "autotheory" would imply that your own ideas are based in ethnocentric biases. Moreover, if we take the idea to its logical extremes then the notion of an autotheory must itself be the product of personal and cultural bias. If we are to take these biases as something that undermines theories, then this concept of autotheory is self-contradictory and paradoxical. Unless, we decide that a so called hypothesis of autotheory is itself exempt from its own critique, which seems a rather weak foundation. Thus, my question to you, why are the theories you consider valid not just a product of your personal biases; subsequently, why should we then trust what you say if what you say about autotheory is valid? Hmm, troubling.

    Edit: And frankly Lavau, I've seen you take on the victim role whenever DrRocket challenges anything you say. The act doesn't impress anyone.
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  34. #33 Re: I wonder where this thread will go, 
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    I wonder where this thread will go, ...
    Now we know where : straight in the wall.

    Reflexivity is not the most shared qualification...
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  35. #34  
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    And in which order of reflexivity does your childish recourse to evasion and insult belong to? I'm going to say first order since you seem to only be interested in the singular goal of annoying everyone.

    Also, it is frankly pointless to post links to your site when only 3 members of this forum, that I know of, can speak French. And that's including you and me.
    "I almost went to bed
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  36. #35  
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    Let's either get this thread back on topic or let it die please guys.
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  37. #36 Why waste time for you ? 
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    @i_feel_tiredsleepy :
    Life is short.
    You do not pay wages nor fees.
    We do not breed children together.
    You behave as a lout, quarrelsome, unsincere, and masked.

    So why should I waste time for a guy like you ?
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  38. #37 The best is to lock the thread. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBiologista
    Let's either get this thread back on topic or let it die please guys.
    The best is to lock the thread.
    I should have done already.

    The first poster has a lot of work to do, and a forum like this one is not a so appropriate frame for that.
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  39. #38  
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    Since an elegant, one line dismantling of Lavau's autotheory argument went right over his head and led to an exchange wherein Sleep's expanded explanation still failed to enable his comprehension, and since I no longer have any idea what the thread was about in the first place, I'd vote for a lockdown.
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  40. #39 Curing of mental illness ? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Since an elegant, one line dismantling of Lavau's autotheory argument went right over his head and led to an exchange wherein Sleep's expanded explanation still failed to enable his comprehension, and since I no longer have any idea what the thread was about in the first place, I'd vote for a lockdown.
    So we can sum up the bulk of the ideas of the pseudo "Ophiolite" about curing of mental illness :
    "Ophiolite" is superior.
    Anybody else is inferior.
    "Ophiolite" is right.
    "Ophiolite" is always right. Especially when he is wrong.
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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Since an elegant, one line dismantling of Lavau's autotheory argument went right over his head and led to an exchange wherein Sleep's expanded explanation still failed to enable his comprehension, and since I no longer have any idea what the thread was about in the first place, I'd vote for a lockdown.
    So we can sum up the bulk of the ideas of the pseudo "Ophiolite" about curing of mental illness :
    "Ophiolite" is superior.
    Anybody else is inferior.
    "Ophiolite" is right. Especially when he is wrong.
    You really should try reading what others have written, rather than pursuing your own, narcassistic, agenda ridden, solopsistic delusions.
    I have expressed no definitive views on curing mental illness. I believe I implicitly queried the value of matt's proposals, but nothing further than that.

    The most recent posts have revolved around the following:
    1. You claim that one or more posters in this thread may be suffering the effects of autotheory, wherein their hypothesis has been erected to support their fundamental beliefs and not for rational, objective reasons.
    2. I questioned how you would know you were not yourself a victim of this.
    3. You promptly misunderstood this.
    4. I explained, rather curtly, that you had misunderstood and I-FeelTired_Sleepy explained to you in some detail this is what was meant.
    5. You continued to misunderstand (or ignore) the point by posting an irrelevancy.

    If you wish this thread to remain active and productive, then please tell me why you would be immune to the bear trap of autotheory, when - as you claim - many of us are not? This is not to do with me being superior or inferior to you. This has to do with you defending an assertion that carries within it a logical weakness. At present your argument is inferior to mine. If you insist on attacking me and not my argument then my argument wins - and incidentally you will come across as something of an asshole, if not actually inferior. Your choice.
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  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    ... may be suffering ... a victim ... you would be immune to the bear trap of autotheory, ...
    Please assume your own surrepticious assertions, quoted above.
    Do not wait any support from me for these.
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  43. #42  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Was that response meant to be intelligibel and relevant? If so it failed on both counts.
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  44. #43 You never were on the topic. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Was that response meant to be intelligibel and relevant? If so it failed on both counts.
    @"Ophiolite" : Maybe you were not so sensible in trying to play with grown-ups, with only the skills from you sandbox.

    You never were on the topic of this thread. You are 100 % driven by your narcissic problematics and your bellicose mood.
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  45. #44 Re: You never were on the topic. 
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    You never were on the topic of this thread.
    My first post in this thread was as follows:
    But the question was 'how will you define mentally ill?'
    This drives to the heart of a potential weakness in matt's proposal: namely that he is assuming mental illness is easily defined and identified. If this is not the case - and their is a body of literature says it is not - then matt's solution could be misapplied and cause serious harm.

    Since this quoted post was fully on topic your claim above is shown to be false. Feel free to apologise at any time.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    You are 100 % driven by your narcissic problematics and your bellicose mood.
    My motivations do not invalidate the substance of my assertions, nor the value of my evidence.
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  46. #45 Re: You never were on the topic. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. Lavau
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Was that response meant to be intelligibel and relevant? If so it failed on both counts.
    @"Ophiolite" : Maybe you were not so sensible in trying to play with grown-ups, with only the skills from you sandbox.

    You never were on the topic of this thread. You are 100 % driven by your narcissic problematics and your bellicose mood.
    Listen Mr. J.C. Lavau .."Those who live in gass houses should not throw stones on others."...........you know qualification on TSF Does mean a lot...... and you mr. have it a lot less than My Grandpa you Know So..........
    "Universe is not as weird as you think it is weirder than you can ever,ever think"- Ophiolite(My Grandpa)
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
    - Prof. Stephen W. Hawking
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  47. #46  
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    To simplify my idea I would use the stimulus of a healthy mind to interact with the unhealthy mind to produce a healthy change in thinking. I have no proof whatsoever that this would work or exactly how it would work. I think magnetism could be used.
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  48. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmatt9876
    I think magnetism could be used.
    You don't think custard and an annual subscription to The Economist would work?
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  49. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by mmatt9876
    I think magnetism could be used.
    You don't think custard and an annual subscription to The Economist would work?
    The repetative food and the uninteresting reading would surely drive anyone insane?
    "The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair." ~ Douglas Adams
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