Thread: Wishes versus Science

POOR OBSERVATIONS It’s not that people observe totally differently, it’s that some people outright neglect what they don’t wish for, not even taking it in—not doing any observing of fact at all, for the lone right brain wants what it wants, turning some of its neural sensations into the bare naked claims of magic. They might, if they want their imaginary notion bad enough—even go against all of evolution’s evidence. To do that, they might even go against all of science. Going further, some might even say that the brain does nothing. Yet, they present nothing but words, saying that, if pressed, that evidence is not even possible or conceivable, all the while pushing against science and facts by the lame and obvious ploy of calling them ‘opinions’ or ‘beliefs’, mostly because they have no real way to push forward with their invisible imaginaries.

They’ll even get mad if one brings this or the invisibleness to their attention, although, as we know, anger has no brains. They think that getting mad shows how right they must be. They are not driven by facts, but just by what they want. They might even do a total reverse, grasping onto some ‘science’ that hints of what they wish for, but this usually turns out to be ‘pseudo science’. Such is the psychology of the human condition though.

Yet, reality cannot made out of wishes. Science, on the other hand, is not just half of one person’s brain (the right), but is the real information and research of people who have found things out that can be repeated and shown, again and again. They don’t use magic power; they use confirmed information, such as that molecule signatures can be recorded on Earth at low temperatures; then, when they observe space through telescopes, they can match the molecules’ signatures, say, then obtain information that there are prebiotic molecules out there that could lead to life. Same with fossils and DNA, which match, by the way.

Then there still always comes along some lone right brain proclaiming magic powers to say that, for example, God is sending me some golden plates with which to extend the Bible; of course then, no one is allowed to see the plates, plus, then they inexplicably get ‘stolen’. Peace is not at hand.

Originally Posted by questor

POOR OBSERVATIONS It’s not that people observe totally differently, it’s that some people outright neglect what they don’t wish for, not even taking it in—not doing any observing of fact at all, for the lone right brain wants what it wants, turning some of its neural sensations into the bare naked claims of magic. They might, if they want their imaginary notion bad enough—even go against all of evolution’s evidence. To do that, they might even go against all of science. Going further, some might even say that the brain does nothing. Yet, they present nothing but words, saying that, if pressed, that evidence is not even possible or conceivable, all the while pushing against science and facts by the lame and obvious ploy of calling them ‘opinions’ or ‘beliefs’, mostly because they have no real way to push forward with their invisible imaginaries.

They’ll even get mad if one brings this or the invisibleness to their attention, although, as we know, anger has no brains. They think that getting mad shows how right they must be. They are not driven by facts, but just by what they want. They might even do a total reverse, grasping onto some ‘science’ that hints of what they wish for, but this usually turns out to be ‘pseudo science’. Such is the psychology of the human condition though.

Yet, reality cannot made out of wishes. Science, on the other hand, is not just half of one person’s brain (the right), but is the real information and research of people who have found things out that can be repeated and shown, again and again. They don’t use magic power; they use confirmed information, such as that molecule signatures can be recorded on Earth at low temperatures; then, when they observe space through telescopes, they can match the molecules’ signatures, say, then obtain information that there are prebiotic molecules out there that could lead to life. Same with fossils and DNA, which match, by the way.

Then there still always comes along some lone right brain proclaiming magic powers to say that, for example, God is sending me some golden plates with which to extend the Bible; of course then, no one is allowed to see the plates, plus, then they inexplicably get ‘stolen’. Peace is not at hand.

You have been posting now for just over 2 weeks, a current total of 268 posts. Is there any chance that you might, sometime, somewhere, perhaps as just a fluke, actually say something ?

Originally Posted by DrRocket

You have been posting now for just over 2 weeks, a current total of 268 posts. Is there any chance that you might, sometime, somewhere, perhaps as just a fluke, actually say something ?

Coincidentally, I ignored him just a few minutes before reading this post.

And I even supported your 'no free will' claim, Ellatha, saying something much more about it than you managed to, so just keep on ignoring, for others don't. These posts are not for you at all who have literally nothing that you can say to the topic at all, even in your own thread on no free will, so, I won't be seeing you around at all. Nice not knowing you.

Feeling ugly inside today, are you? Try some more words on the no free will stuff, as I did, so it doesn't just sit there as a kind of pronouncement on time forward and time past.

Now, go travel somewhere without map-quest and get lost.

Originally Posted by Ellatha

Originally Posted by DrRocket

You have been posting now for just over 2 weeks, a current total of 268 posts. Is there any chance that you might, sometime, somewhere, perhaps as just a fluke, actually say something ?

Coincidentally, I ignored him just a few minutes before reading this post.

It’s not my fault, Rocket, if you can’t muster any kind of response to the wide variety of science topics presented, nor have you even cited anything, making you the worst kind of coward.

Now, Elitaha, go put some more meat and ore into the sketchy and simpleton beginnings of the ‘no free will’ thread before I have to do it even more for you.

And then you both be sure to show us all how anger has no brains, so that we all can view it while enjoying own popcorn at the toxic circus.

Originally Posted by questor

Originally Posted by Ellatha

Originally Posted by DrRocket

You have been posting now for just over 2 weeks, a current total of 268 posts. Is there any chance that you might, sometime, somewhere, perhaps as just a fluke, actually say something ?

Coincidentally, I ignored him just a few minutes before reading this post.

It’s not my fault, Rocket, if you can’t muster any kind of response to the wide variety of science topics presented, nor have you even cited anything, making you the worst kind of coward.

Now, Elitaha, go put some more meat and ore into the sketchy and simpleton beginnings of the ‘no free will’ thread before I have to do it even more for you.

And then you both be sure to show us all how anger has no brains, so that we all can view it while enjoying own popcorn at the toxic circus.

I'll take that as a "no'.

Take it as a 'know.'

Originally Posted by questor

Take it as a 'know.'

That would require your first post with content. I am forced to take it as "know nothing" until contrary evidence is presented.

A quock is not a quote, Doc, nor does your inability and emptiness of pronouncement have any meaning whatsoever, as shown by your present, your history of Rocket crashes and suspensions, and your future, of which you now have none at all.

You are hilarious questor.

I found the opening post a somewhat whimsical statement of truth. Most of wish for many things which wither under the light of reason.

Originally Posted by Ellatha

You are hilarious questor.

Thanks, for I do have a sense of humor that I hope may become somewhat contagious, even for old fixed Dr. Doom, who was never young and unlearned, and who has just entered the launch pad.

(Wait until you see your free will thread, in which I am still for your topic, perhaps strangely to your dismay, which you may have a hard time explaining to all, but that is a problem begun by you, and so there it remains, as your own paradox of nonsense.)

Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox

I found the opening post a somewhat whimsical statement of truth. Most of wish for many things which wither under the light of reason.

All those paragraphs and arrangement of nonsensical words can be summarized by the statement "people are biased." I have yet to see one meaningful post from questor.

Originally Posted by questor

Originally Posted by Ellatha

You are hilarious questor.

Thanks, for I do have a sense of humor that I hope may become somewhat contagious, even for old fixed Dr. Doom, who was never young and unlearned, and who has just entered the launch pad.

(Wait until you see your free will thread, in which I am still for your topic, perhaps strangely to your dismay, which you may have a hard time explaining to all, but that is a problem begun by you, and so there it remains, as your own paradox of nonsense.)

Originally Posted by Ellatha

All those paragraphs and arrangement of nonsensical words can be summarized by the statement "people are biased." I have yet to see one meaningful post from questor.

Yep. questor is clueless.

Originally Posted by Ellatha

All those paragraphs and arrangement of nonsensical words can be summarized by the statement "people are biased." I have yet to see one meaningful post from questor.

Umm. I think it was quite clear.

Speaking of wishful thinking...I quite honestly wish more scientifically minded would use more than the sterile and often dull language of science to explain their positions. Science is loosing the fight to attract young people and the ear of adults because we're collectively failing to compete for their attention. I find Questor's contributions somewhat refreshing and part of a greater artistic movement that's badly needed--even when most of it isn't substantive.

Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox

Speaking of wishful thinking...I quite honestly wish more scientifically minded would use more than the sterile and often dull language of science to explain their positions. Science is loosing the fight to attract young people and the ear of adults because we're collectively failing to compete for their attention. I find Questor's contributions somewhat refreshing and part of a greater artistic movement that's badly needed--even when most of it isn't substantive.

You can see that in many popularizations. Unfortunately some of the big sellers distort the truth rather badly, and that leads to as much disinformation as education. That is one reason that I can recommend only books by the top researchers. The very top.

Scientific language is neither sterile nor dull. It is precise, and precision is necessary. Too often colorful popular language leads to serious distortion. However, what you see in forums such as these is not the rigorous language of hard-core science. Even my stuff is toned down quite a bit.

The language may appear dull to those who don't understand it. But there is no substitute for understanding. The "no hair" theorem or the "hairy ball theorem" are meaningful only if one understands the subject matter in some depth.

I don't think that many truly talented young people are lost. Most with real talent wind up in a technical area. Most of the lawyeers and MBA types wopuld not make first-rate scientists or engineers. I think that some of the comparisons with other countries are distorted and confuse engineers with technicians. Our universities are in fact doing a good job and I doubt that output could be much increased without compromising quality.

What would be really bad would be graduating a bunch of people with science and engineering diplomas, but with only a very superficial understanding of the subject matter. The wackos that make themselves obvious here (but not to themselves) would be dangerous if they had any significant responsibility in the real world.

Believe it or not I know a guy who is educating himself to take up a second career as a secondary school science teacher. He retired from his first career -- as a player in the NBA. The guy is pretty bright. I'll bet that your high school physics teacher did not have an NBA championship ring !

Thanks, Lynx; perhaps they are feeling a bit dated, sterile, and dull.


Poor old fired-out Rocket. That’s all you’ve got, Doc, (for meds), that lame old ploy of a lone generalization? C’mon, get those stagnant brain cells moving and show that you’re at least a worthy adversary. By not supplying any specifics you’ve only demonstrated to all that you don’t have any. Do you think everyone was born yesterday? All can see through that sham instantly. Wake up! It took no time at all for you to be contradicted. Get with it, bud, or retire. At least learn to read something other than math symbols.

Originally Posted by Ellatha

Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox

I found the opening post a somewhat whimsical statement of truth. Most of wish for many things which wither under the light of reason.

All those paragraphs and arrangement of nonsensical words can be summarized by the statement "people are biased." I have yet to see one meaningful post from questor.

Ditto for you, plus you completely and utterly forgot that some (not you) want to know the Why of the human condition. Flunk.

Can you type a post without including a copious number of lame insults and meaningless riddles of which you probably don't even understand?

It is very often the case that scientists, mathematicians, and philosophers will write a paper of substance and near the end provide a clever philosophical idea to accompany it, however all you do is type a lot of non-clever philosophical quotes with no substance at all.

DR. I think your missing my point and I disagree with some of your facts.

Those popularizations are important for the general public.
"Scientific language is neither sterile nor dull. It is precise, and precision is necessary" I would agree if I'm writing for a science journal and I certainly did the same for my publications. On the other hand it needs to be much more if I'm writing or talking to non-scientist, whether they be young people or adults.

In my own field for example there are meteorologist by the leagues who are very precise and work like dogs applying their education and knowledge to protect the public or conduct research but they contribute almost nothing to attracting talent to the field. People like Reed Trimmer, who regularly post YOU TUBE videos of his somewhat crazy tornado chases and animated if not entirely precise explanations of what's happening do far more to attract the talent into the field. He's also a talented researcher with a doctorate from Universality of OK, one of the top fields in Meteorology and well capable of scientific language (though he doesn't publish much research).

"Bill Nye the science guy" is much the same--he's often sloppy, not very precise, but has so much energy and entertainment that he's done more to get kids into science than an army of ivory tower science types.

Been to a NASA road exhibition? I few years ago I took my boy to a few of these. Exhibits of different films used to reflect heat was one station. At this one was a middle aged (about my age now), slightly balding man who went on to give a very professional explanation of it's unique thermal and radiative properties. It was all very precise. It was also extraordinarily dull. Though I don't for a second doubt his technical abilities, he was living and breathing personification of a demotivation poster, a NASA anti-recruiter, and sleep-aid all rolled into one. He was the worse of the exhibits but the rest weren't much better. I stopped taking my kid there. Now if the film exhibit had been led by a perky 30 years old post doc with a skirt two inches above fashionable height and a cool demonstration trying to cook a hot dog or touching the film while a torch heats the opposite side --now that would have interesting even if the language wasn't too precise and had a bit of valley girl, or a reference to Lady Gaga or a prominent quarterback mixed in once in a while!

Once kids get into the college is time enough to teach them about precision, along with the perspiration of solving partial differential equations etc. But we should also teach them about media relations and how to interface with the general public. Things like writing using suspense, entertainment, and even poetry, the basics of TV programming and other media. How to be tell a good teller. In short how to be interesting.

It's a trivial exercise to pull up stories of declining science degree in the US or ones about graduate programs having trouble filling their classes with qualified American applicants. We are loosing, and as scientist we are partly to blame for failure to adapt to and sometimes complete with the realities of modern media age.

Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox

I stopped taking my kid there. Now if the film exhibit had been led by a perky 30 years old post doc with a skirt two inches above fashionable height and a cool demonstration trying to cook a hot dog or touching the film while a torch heats the opposite side --now that would have interesting even if the language wasn't too precise and had a bit of valley girl, or a reference to Lady Gaga or a prominent quarterback mixed in once in a while!

I really do not want to see questor in a skirt two inches too short. His new avatar is quite enough.




And really... what's this crap he's been posting and using to litter the forums?!? :

Originally Posted by inow

And really... what's this crap he's been posting and using to litter the forums?!? :

The fuck is that!?

Questor is an example of the kind of people who lure people to the field to learn how to build teleporters and pop-science bullshit. The people who are lulled into a fancy by his drivel are the same ones who drop out of the field a quarter way in when they realize it was all bullshit. He does much more harm than good. I'm interested in Physics and Mathematics because of the "dull and boring" bits of it. It's the precision and explanation that enticed me. I never buy Michio Kaku or any other fancy scientist's books, because you're practically guaranteed to only get bull that isn't physically possible, and even in the nice publications that are written in layman's terms aren't all that informative. The talent that needs to be brought into the field are those that are enticed by the actual science of the field, the professional bits, not the popular bits. I'm much more vastly interested in the Tesla coil, and it's applications, than the prospect of making a lightsaber.

Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician

The fuck is that!?

More of the same:

http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...hlight=#275708

http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...hlight=#276060

http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...hlight=#276059

http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...hlight=#275696


Good times:
http://www.thescienceforum.com/searc...author=questor

OK, guys, so let's see your explanation of why there has to be conservation of energy, charge, momentum, and more…

What do you guys have as a hypothesis? A great silence? I thought so. Undo mine, then put up yours or shut up, for you have nothing but a resort of acting all perplexed, which you will probably just put a rerun or a repeat of rather than meet the challenge.

Originally Posted by questor

OK, guys, so let's see your explanation of why there has to be conservation of energy, charge, momentum, and more…

What do you guys have as a hypothesis? A great silence? I thought so. Undo mine, then put up yours or shut up, for you have nothing but a resort of acting all perplexed, which you will probably just put a rerun or a repeat of rather than meet the challenge.

The laws of conservation are there for closed systems. It was extended to the scale of the universe because the universe is just a massive closed system.

Now please, shut the fuck up

Originally Posted by questor

OK, guys, so let's see your explanation of why there has to be conservation of energy, charge, momentum, and more….

Let's see your explanation! We have observed these laws to apply. We have confirmed their application in a myriad of instances. In the absence of counter evidence it would be fatuous to reject them. As to why these laws exist, that is another more subtle matter not yet fully elucidated.

Originally Posted by questor

What do you guys have as a hypothesis? A great silence?

When one has nothing to say silence is a sign of wisdom.

Originally Posted by questor

Undo mine, then put up yours or shut up, for you have nothing but a resort of acting all perplexed, which you will probably just put a rerun or a repeat of rather than meet the challenge.

~You don't have an explanation or hypothesis. You have word salad and arm waving and misinterpretation and nonsense and jargon and more nonsense.

Originally Posted by Ophiolite

You don't have an explanation or hypothesis. You have word salad and arm waving and misinterpretation and nonsense and jargon and more nonsense.

And meaningless graphics... Don't forget the meaningless nonsensical graphics with colors reminiscent of a bad LSD trip or like something you'd find in a head shop burning too much patchouli. :|

Originally Posted by Arcane_Mathematician

Originally Posted by questor

OK, guys, so let's see your explanation of why there has to be conservation of energy, charge, momentum, and more…

What do you guys have as a hypothesis? A great silence? I thought so. Undo mine, then put up yours or shut up, for you have nothing but a resort of acting all perplexed, which you will probably just put a rerun or a repeat of rather than meet the challenge.

The laws of conservation are there for closed systems. It was extended to the scale of the universe because the universe is just a massive closed system.

Now please, shut the fuck up

Its just 'there'? Not brilliant, not telling, not anything. You have just shut yourself up.

Back to bearskins for you and those kinds of stupid statements that lead nowhere but to a mod's comment.

Let's hear some more swearing in lieu of anything better, as that must be your limit.

Ophiolite, you undid nothing, showed nothing, and demonstrated nothing, just as I said you couldn't do, and just like the other times, flailing and failing again with nothing but the same repeats and reruns, adding nothing more. Your naked words still just hang in the air, ungrounded. Sometimes you are good, but other times you remind me of the ever crashing dr. rocket. Sad if that were to overwhelm your good points.

Originally Posted by questor

Ophiolite, you undid nothing, showed nothing, and demonstrated nothing,.

I was responding to nothing.

Seriously questor, you seem to think you are saying something of substance and value. It doesn't come across that way. I have zero idea what you are trying to communicate. All I sense is some incohate rage against conventional science. You offer no reason for this rage. You offer no justification for it. You expect your readers to ignore solidly validated concepts, investigated and confirmed by many brilliant minds, and turn instead to vague arm-waving speculations offered by yourself.

Really, would you not question the sanity of someone who favoured the views of an internet crackpot over those of well researched science?

What are you referring to? I am completely for science over wishes, just as the thread opener states. Go look. Are you all there today? Felling blind, and now speechless? Yes, read the opener and reset yourself.

Also, there is 'Gravity Explained' in the 'Exploits' thread, which may be dull and sterile enough for you, but quite interesting if that's really how it works. If you don't like science then you'll just have to suffer through all the science-related ideas over there, but this is here. Where are you? Stuck in toxicity that you now feel a need to maintain?

Grasp for straws now, if you can't read, and try to get as good as you give. The only one falling over here is you. Nor do I suppose that you have anything useful to say about the topic here.

Originally Posted by questor

What are you referring to? .

I am referring to the endless garbage you vomit onto the forum in thread after thread. Incoherent, unsubstantiated nonsense in which the only thing visible is a disdain for conventional science. Your posts lack clarity, relevance, focus and meaning. And those are their good points!

Originally Posted by questor

I am completely for science over wishes, just as the thread opener states. Go look. .

You have less idea of what science is than I have of how to mine selenium or make candy floss. Your opening post is trivial. (Do you know what trivial means in a scientific context?) Your subsequent posts wild, unamanaged, lacking direction or obvious intent. Word salad, semantic vortices, crap!

Originally Posted by questor

Also, there is 'Gravity Explained' in the 'Exploits' thread, which may be dull and sterile enough for you, but quite interesting if that's really how it works.

It would be really interesting if gravity was the consequence of small purple entities sucking in their breath continuosly, but it isn't. Nor is your explanation correct, so it is irrelevant in a science forum.

Originally Posted by questor

If you don't like science then you'll just have to suffer through all the science-related ideas over there, .

None of the science ideas 'over there' come from you. It's just interminable garbage. I really cannot understand what motivates you or has led you to the delusion that you have something pertinent to say. I'd be interested in hearing a cogent explanation, but doubt it will be forthcoming.

Originally Posted by questor

Where are you? Stuck in toxicity that you now feel a need to maintain?

The toxicity is yours. Abyssal depths of nonsense. Don't accuse me of negativity for pointing it out and railing against it.

Finally, buried in the sewage works of your posts there is a rare glimpse of meaning. Not a gem, but at least a piece of shiny glass that ay once have been part of a useful object. Will you frigging pull yourself together and deliver those and only those pieces in future. The world will be grateful.

Originally Posted by Ophiolite

Originally Posted by questor

What are you referring to? .

I am referring to the endless garbage you vomit onto the forum in thread after thread. Incoherent, unsubstantiated nonsense in which the only thing visible is a disdain for conventional science. Your posts lack clarity, relevance, focus and meaning. And those are their good points!

Originally Posted by questor

I am completely for science over wishes, just as the thread opener states. Go look. .

You have less idea of what science is than I have of how to mine selenium or make candy floss. Your opening post is trivial. (Do you know what trivial means in a scientific context?) Your subsequent posts wild, unamanaged, lacking direction or obvious intent. Word salad, semantic vortices, crap!

Originally Posted by questor

Also, there is 'Gravity Explained' in the 'Exploits' thread, which may be dull and sterile enough for you, but quite interesting if that's really how it works.

It would be really interesting if gravity was the consequence of small purple entities sucking in their breath continuosly, but it isn't. Nor is your explanation correct, so it is irrelevant in a science forum.

Originally Posted by questor

If you don't like science then you'll just have to suffer through all the science-related ideas over there, .

None of the science ideas 'over there' come from you. It's just interminable garbage. I really cannot understand what motivates you or has led you to the delusion that you have something pertinent to say. I'd be interested in hearing a cogent explanation, but doubt it will be forthcoming.

Originally Posted by questor

Where are you? Stuck in toxicity that you now feel a need to maintain?

The toxicity is yours. Abyssal depths of nonsense. Don't accuse me of negativity for pointing it out and railing against it.

Finally, buried in the sewage works of your posts there is a rare glimpse of meaning. Not a gem, but at least a piece of shiny glass that ay once have been part of a useful object. Will you frigging pull yourself together and deliver those and only those pieces in future. The world will be grateful.

You are sugar-coating reality !

Do to your rudeness, Ophi, you got off on the wrong foot, then you tripped and fell, perhaps still distracted by your rudeness, and there you still lay and stay. I can see why you have no answer. Here you are misplaced and displaced, so respond in the appropriate thread, where you can’t answer either, but to identify that the thread is about science and scientists, which is just what it is supposed to be about. You have been contradicted several times, by mods, no less, showing, but again, that you rule nothing, which all can now plainly see. You are flailing and failing once again. You were even rude enough to put trash in another thread right after they cleaned it up. Poor showing. Am ready for you next babble.


Rock-Med, you don’t rule anything but your own cuckoo’s nest, as all can see… or are you going to show us all? Let’s see, Rockette. Proceed. Nothing. Zippo results.

This is just trolling now.

Originally Posted by inow

This is just trolling now.

now ?

So long, trolls.

Ophi has never begun a thread, so he trolls mine. Same for your trolling, Rocket, but you can both troll again, for I don't mind You only dig your selves in deeper.