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Thread: Dark matter or doesn't matter?

  1. #1 Dark matter or doesn't matter? 
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    We are told that there is six times as much dark matter as there is light matter. This is "dark matter" and not unseen conventional matter of any kind like dust.

    People so casually accept such statements without the slightest evidence. Scientists don't have a clue as to what it is or even where it is but they know it's there.

    I look at a picture of an average spiral galaxy:

    http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/0808/ngc1232_vlt.jpg

    and it looks like you would expect it to look if it were light matter only. Yet we are expected to believe that there is six times as much dark matter as light matter hidden in this photo.

    So where is it? Some say the halo, but if so the light matter would go where the gravity is so we'd have ring doughnut galaxies instead of spiral galaxies.

    Or that the light matter is over laid on a dark matter "frame". DM has had a number of properties, that it cannot form small structures, only large structures, that it is several thousand degrees centigrade (which would be an awfully hot galaxy, and a CMB well above 2.7K). Also that it moves continuously at 9,000.C, etc. Ophiolite on another thread said I like old information. I do. I remember all those embarrassing old ideas, all taken as infallibly true at the time that science would now like to forget.

    DM is said to only react gravitationally. So if the light matter is laid on a DM frame, that means that DM is endemic to a galaxy, and is susceptible to gravity which means that every star, planet and moon has DM in it's make up. Strangely we have found no evidence of this so far. But there is more. Galaxies are full of black holes of all sizes. The central SMBH does not move much but with rotation of the galaxy, most do.

    Imagine a large enclosed stadium full of diffuse gas. You put a small vacuum hose into it. It is going to start sucking in the gas, and so to speak, as an area of gas is cleared, another area moves in to replace it only to be sucked in too, etc. That is what would go on with black holes and DM. They would be continually sucking in all DM in their vicinity, even as the sun would, and possibly even planets and moons. Given not many billions of years, all that "free" DM would vanish and be locked into black holes and the like.

    Why do we have something as unlikely as DM? Because they say stars in a galaxy rotate too fast for the galaxy to stay together. But if you allowed that there was a gravitational component to the redshift of a star caused by the photon travelling through space then that star could be travelling sufficiently slower that it would not escape the galaxy, so no DM needed.

    I do know about the Bullet Cluster. Do you really need an explanation because you cannot see the obvious?


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  3. #2 Re: Dark matter or doesn't matter? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Why do we have something as unlikely as DM? Because they say stars in a galaxy rotate too fast for the galaxy to stay together.
    Yep. A problem is recognized and no solution is apparent.So, while researchers try to find a suitable solution it is given a name -- dark matter.

    In the mean time evidence mounts for some exotic form of matter -- gravitational lensing for instance.

    But dark matter is far from confirmed, so attacks are directed at only a working hypothesis, not established physics. Adding to the absurdity are fanciful statements regarding properties attributed to dark matter -- a classic straw man argument.




    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    But if you allowed that there was a gravitational component to the redshift of a star caused by the photon travelling through space then that star could be travelling sufficiently slower that it would not escape the galaxy, so no DM needed.

    I do know about the Bullet Cluster. Do you really need an explanation because you cannot see the obvious?
    utter nonsense . As usual.


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  4. #3 Re: Dark matter or doesn't matter? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    But dark matter is far from confirmed, so attacks are directed at only a working hypothesis, not established physics. Adding to the absurdity are fanciful statements regarding properties attributed to dark matter -- a classic straw man argument.
    I didn't make up the properties of DM. People who believe in it did. It is spoken of as though it were true (like dark energy for instance).

    The inanity "straw man" is usually used by people without answers, as proved here.




    utter nonsense . As usual.
    Another non answer. Amazing how few questions you answer once I remove all the hand waving.
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  5. #4  
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    I can see you're really passionate, but Dr. Rocket pointed out that it's not established physics, just a really popular hypothesis, so there's no need to be upset about it.

    I don't personally buy into it either, but I can't say for sure that it won't turn out to be a true theory, and it's far from being the most ridiculous thing physics has ever believed ( by which I mean there have been some much more ridiculous hypothesis in the past.)

    If I were betting person, I would bet that it's going to turn out like the Aether. It will fail some test or another that disproves its existence, and then some people like Lorentz and Einstein will come along and show us that the universe is weirder than we ever wanted it to be.
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  6. #5 Re: Dark matter or doesn't matter? 
    . DrRocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Another non answer. Amazing how few questions you answer once I remove all the hand waving.
    Wrong moron.

    Your so-called questions are hand-waving -- word salad juxtaposing meaningless phrases.

    What does blue sound like ?

    You need to learn enough physics to pose an intelligent question.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    If I were betting person, I would bet that it's going to turn out like the Aether. It will fail some test or another that disproves its existence, and then some people like Lorentz and Einstein will come along and show us that the universe is weirder than we ever wanted it to be.
    Oh not this again. For the nth time, the Ether didn't "fail" any test and its existence has never been disproven. However, you are right about one thing: someone will indeed come along and convince everyone once again that the universe is more complicated than it really is.
    "Doubt is the origin of Wisdom" - Rene Descartes
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    If I were betting person, I would bet that it's going to turn out like the Aether. It will fail some test or another that disproves its existence, and then some people like Lorentz and Einstein will come along and show us that the universe is weirder than we ever wanted it to be.
    The big bang has already failed a number of tests but each time they just come up with some new nonsense to explain it away.
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  9. #8 Re: Dark matter or doesn't matter? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Wrong moron.

    Your so-called questions are hand-waving -- word salad juxtaposing meaningless phrases.

    What does blue sound like ?

    You need to learn enough physics to pose an intelligent question.
    Another non answer. I see you have adopted my talk of hand waving. Still can't think of anything original I see.

    As to blue, we can hear what parts of the EM spectrum we want to, even the blue part of visible light. Your point is?
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  10. #9  
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    Waveman28. The aether is coming back into popularity again in a new form to explain how space bends, etc.

    Bending space is easy. You start off with a group of gullible people....
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