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View Poll Results: do you think zero could equal infinity

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Thread: Can 0=infinity

  1. #1 Can 0=infinity 
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    the definition of infinity in terms of distance is an infinite distance or an infinitely distant part of space. the definition of zero in terms of time is having no measurable quantity of time or a magnitude of time that equals nothing or a void in time. so how can nothing equal infinitely everything. philosophically and theoretically i believe it can in relation to space and time. imagine if you can an infinitly large planet that is no longer growing but we just place its value at static infinity. now imagine a man is on this planet who would obviously be infinitely small but not shrinking any longer. the goal of this man is to walk around the circumference of this planet to quantify the distance of infinity. Lets say this man has the capability of traveling at an infinite speed or we could say light speed.this man travels for an infinitely long time at and infinite speed/ light speed and according to phisycs he will not move at all through time but time will move all around him into the infinite future. after an infinite time has passed he will infinitely approach his origin or where he started. this man is excstatic he has nearly quantified infinity and now he has an infinitely small distance to conquer in order to finish his calculation. as you understand he would never reach his origin or zero distination. their would be an infinitely small void to conquer yet this infinite void is also an infinite distance. but this man is highly advanced and thoughtful he understood this would happen and his secret is he already knows what infinity equals. as a physicist and scientist who understands relativity greatly he has the technology to create wormholes or warpholes. what i didnt tell you is he placed one end of a warphole at his origin. this warphole would then be in the infinite past with relation to where he is now. it would be at the origin and now he is approaching this origin and needs to cross an infinitely small void to quantify infinity. so he creates the other end of the warp hole at an infinitely small time and distance away from the origin. he walks through the warphole and discovers what infinity equals. since this warphole is actually infinitely small with relation to the circumference its limit is 0 so the wormhole equals 0 and he travels to his original time and distance and has not aged at all in this infinite time. in reality he didnt move at all when he walks through this wormhole he already had the knowledge that 0 equals infinity to create an ideal warphole one must be able to travel an infinite distance within a void in time. so can 0 = infinity you decide


     

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  3. #2 Re: Can 0=infinity 
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mag Suit
    the definition of infinity in terms of distance is an infinite distance or an infinitely distant part of space. the definition of zero in terms of time is having no measurable quantity of time or a magnitude of time that equals nothing or a void in time. so how can nothing equal infinitely everything. philosophically and theoretically i believe it can in relation to space and time. imagine if you can an infinitly large planet that is no longer growing but we just place its value at static infinity. now imagine a man is on this planet who would obviously be infinitely small but not shrinking any longer. the goal of this man is to walk around the circumference of this planet to quantify the distance of infinity. Lets say this man has the capability of traveling at an infinite speed or we could say light speed.this man travels for an infinitely long time at and infinite speed/ light speed and according to phisycs he will not move at all through time but time will move all around him into the infinite future. after an infinite time has passed he will infinitely approach his origin or where he started. this man is excstatic he has nearly quantified infinity and now he has an infinitely small distance to conquer in order to finish his calculation. as you understand he would never reach his origin or zero distination. their would be an infinitely small void to conquer yet this infinite void is also an infinite distance. but this man is highly advanced and thoughtful he understood this would happen and his secret is he already knows what infinity equals. as a physicist and scientist who understands relativity greatly he has the technology to create wormholes or warpholes. what i didnt tell you is he placed one end of a warphole at his origin. this warphole would then be in the infinite past with relation to where he is now. it would be at the origin and now he is approaching this origin and needs to cross an infinitely small void to quantify infinity. so he creates the other end of the warp hole at an infinitely small time and distance away from the origin. he walks through the warphole and discovers what infinity equals. since this warphole is actually infinitely small with relation to the circumference its limit is 0 so the wormhole equals 0 and he travels to his original time and distance and has not aged at all in this infinite time. in reality he didnt move at all when he walks through this wormhole he already had the knowledge that 0 equals infinity to create an ideal warphole one must be able to travel an infinite distance within a void in time. so can 0 = infinity you decide
    No. Zero is an element of the set of integers, that is , for . Infinity is not.


     

  4. #3  
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    I voted no. Would be very interested in who voted yes and why?
     

  5. #4  
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    'Zero' and 'infinity' are two distinct concepts and cannot be equated.

    There's a curious link between zero and infinity in vectors.
    A vector is a concept used in both maths and physics.

    A vector has two components: a magnitude and a direction.
    Speed for instance, is a scalar - it just has a magnitude, e.g. 5ms-1.
    Whereas velocity is a vector, it has magnitude and direction, e.g. 5ms-1, due north.

    In vector algebra you need to have a zero vector.
    The zero vector has a magnitude of 0, and its direction is 'all directions', i.e. an infinite number.
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  6. #5  
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    Zero and infinity are independent concepts. Alone they do not directly equate to one another.

    But, take "1" for instance. "1" can be made to equate to infinity by using "1" in an infinite sequence.
    And so "0" can be made to equal infinity by applying "0" to an infinite sequence. But "0" is "0". The only way to make "0" equate to infinity is to employ the use of complex numbers in an infinite sequence. It's possible. Erm, I've seen it done of sorts. It's not hard, it's just using "i" in a certain arrangement in an endless algorithm, ensuring "i" validates, is integral to, "0".
     

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    zero could equal infinity?

    I don't think so .................how Zero nmay be equal to Infinity .

    As we know Number/0=infinity
    and 0=is a definite number who has its own know value .But infinity is not a definte number and as it is known infinity may be ant unknowmn value which has no limits.
    So it's not possible .
     

  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by theQuestIsNotOver View Post
    Zero and infinity are independent concepts. Alone they do not directly equate to one another.

    But, take "1" for instance. "1" can be made to equate to infinity by using "1" in an infinite sequence.
    And so "0" can be made to equal infinity by applying "0" to an infinite sequence. But "0" is "0". The only way to make "0" equate to infinity is to employ the use of complex numbers in an infinite sequence. It's possible. Erm, I've seen it done of sorts. It's not hard, it's just using "i" in a certain arrangement in an endless algorithm, ensuring "i" validates, is integral to, "0".
    Let S1 be an infinite sequence of 1's, i.e {1,1,1,1,..... }
    Let S0 be an infinite sequence of 0's, i.e {0,0,0,0,..... }

    S1 <> S0 (by the Axiom of Extensionality) (by <> I mean 'not equal to')

    #S0 (the 'size', 'cardinality', or 'no. of elements' of S0) = aleph0 (an infinite number)
    #S1 (the 'size', 'cardinality', or 'no. of elements' of S1) = aleph0 (the same infinite number).

    The two sequences have the same (infinite) size, but they are not equal. Just as {a,b,c} <> {0,1,2}.
    Complex numbers will not help.

    The only way to 'make' 0 equal to infinity, in a sequence of transformations, is if one of those transformations is invalid.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by amit28it View Post
    zero could equal infinity?

    I don't think so .................how Zero nmay be equal to Infinity .

    As we know Number/0=infinity
    and 0=is a definite number who has its own know value .But infinity is not a definte number and as it is known infinity may be ant unknowmn value which has no limits.
    So it's not possible .
    Number/0 is not equal to infinity, because it is impossible to divide by 0.

    I was once asked this in a maths class, so I constructed a proof which was understandable to the students.

    Basically I demonstrated that if you could divide by 0, then those students did not exist!
     

  10. #9  
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    The agorithm for "0" using "i" is a little complex. Basically it is i^2 (i-squared) giving a "-1" result that when again multiplied by itself gains "1", thereby being intrinsic to "1".
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by theQuestIsNotOver View Post
    The agorithm for "0" using "i" is a little complex. Basically it is i^2 (i-squared) giving a "-1" result that when again multiplied by itself gains "1", thereby being intrinsic to "1".
    Yes i^4 = 1, or another of way of saying this is that i is one of the (four) fourth roots of 1, in the set of complex numbers.
    Where i = 0 + 1i and 1 = 1 + 0i. Yes 'it is a little complex' - a little complex number.

    But this has nothing to do with zero or infinity, except for the trivial fact that 1 is the successor of 0, in the set of natural numbers.
     

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    The algorithm for "i" is one that can both equate to "0" or "infinity". In other words, the algorithm both equals "0" and "infinity". I don't know if that counts though. It's a particular type of algorithm. But, it really depends on the term of "=". "=" how. "i" if used creatively is like a topographical wormhole. Sure it can join "0" to infinity, as a process of "i", giving the effect of 0 = infinity. But is this the challenge here?
    Last edited by theQuestIsNotOver; November 11th, 2011 at 03:13 PM.
     

  13. #12  
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    i have proved it through a simple math equation but it does not litraly prove o=infinity !!!
    soooo.....
    if 1-1=0
    and if u multiply 1-1 with 0 the answer will still remain the same like this
    0(1-1)=0
    so if u shift the 0 towards the otherside of the equation the it will become
    1-1=0/0
    as 0/0 is infinty so
    1-1=infinity
    if u futher simplfy the equation its becomes
    0=infinity
     

  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by el diablo View Post
    i have proved it through a simple math equation but it does not litraly prove o=infinity !!!
    soooo.....
    if 1-1=0
    and if u multiply 1-1 with 0 the answer will still remain the same like this
    0(1-1)=0
    so if u shift the 0 towards the otherside of the equation the it will become
    1-1=0/0
    as 0/0 is infinty so
    1-1=infinity
    if u futher simplfy the equation its becomes
    0=infinity
    Have you any links with Curtis Jay Davenport?
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    Curtis Jay Davenport??? who he ???
     

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    0 is equal to INFINITY AND THIS IS WHY:
    From the rule that [0!=1], we can say that [0x0=1].
    Now lets divide both sides by '0' and the new equation will be [(0x0)/0)=1/0]. Now the 2 zeros on the left hand side cancel out and we only 0 left on the left hand side. On the right hand side, '1 divided bY 0' is equal to infinity.
    Therefore 0=INFINITY AND IT IS MATHEMATICALLY PROVEN.
     

  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by prajesh22 View Post
    From the rule that [0!=1], we can say that [0x0=1].
    No you can't. If 0 != 1 then 0x0 (or any other representation of 0) != 1. (I am assuming 0x0 is supposed to be hexadecimal notation. But if it is something else, please let us know.)

    Now lets divide both sides by '0' and the new equation will be [(0x0)/0)=1/0].
    Wrong. Division by zero is undefined. You cannot say undefined = undefined.

    On the right hand side, '1 divided bY 0' is equal to infinity.
    No it isn't.

    Therefore 0=INFINITY AND IT IS MATHEMATICALLY PROVEN.
    No it isn't.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
     

  18. #17  
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    I voted yes.
    - The question is "could", so it opens doubt.
    - If nothing is zero, physics show that, in theory everything can come from nothing. Nothing is a probability wave, of nothing and everything (nothing=everything)
    - Both zero and infinity defy measurement.
    - Michio Kaku on wrote on a black board that 1/0 = infinity (I would show you, but the forum doesn't let publish links)

    I think infinity and nothing are different. But hey if you ask me if they COULD be the same... I guess yes, they could be the same... but I dont believe it.
     

  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teralek View Post
    I voted yes.
    - The question is "could", so it opens doubt.
    - If nothing is zero, physics show that, in theory everything can come from nothing. Nothing is a probability wave, of nothing and everything (nothing=everything)
    - Both zero and infinity defy measurement.
    - Michio Kaku on wrote on a black board that 1/0 = infinity (I would show you, but the forum doesn't let publish links)

    I think infinity and nothing are different. But hey if you ask me if they COULD be the same... I guess yes, they could be the same... but I dont believe it.

    I vote no for this reason: you can fit 0 inside of everything else, you can't fit infinity inside of anything, therefore I concluded they couldn't be equal.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
     

  20. #19  
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    Logically what you said makes some sense. But since I learned that something can both be a wave and a particle at the same time, I learned that logic is not that bullet proof.
     

  21. #20  
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    I voted "no".
    Because that's the answer.
    And the OP is unmitigated drivel.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teralek View Post
    Logically what you said makes some sense. But since I learned that something can both be a wave and a particle at the same time, I learned that logic is not that bullet proof.
    Logic never was bullet proof - simple logic can show that logic is faulty.
    Wave/ particle duality is nothing to do with logic - it's reality.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    I voted "no".
    Because that's the answer.
    And the OP is unmitigated drivel.
    Your certainty of things makes Socrates roll on it's tomb!
     

  24. #23  
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    My certainty is only applied to things of which I'm certain.
    Zero and infinity are strictly defined mathematically: they are not the same.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    My certainty is only applied to things of which I'm certain.
    Zero and infinity are strictly defined mathematically: they are not the same.
    Just a point here, I agree with you by the way on this one but, since strictly speaking both zero and infinity are concepts then it would also be possible, philosophically speaking to philosophize a new concept where they are both equal.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
     

  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    then it would also be possible, philosophically speaking to philosophize a new concept where they are both equal.
    It may well be possible.
    But then, since they would have both been redefined, we'd be talking about something other than the accepted zero and infinity being equal.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  27. #26  
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    Yep, definately end up with something weird at the end of it. But that's about the only way I could see them being equal, unless perhaps there is a better way we've missed?
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
     

  28. #27  
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    0 =/= infinity. That is a fact. I have no idea why 30% said it does. Although zero and infinity have a lot of properties in common and lead to bizarre paradoxes, they are not, in fact, numerically equal.
     

  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Just a point here, I agree with you by the way on this one but, since strictly speaking both zero and infinity are concepts then it would also be possible, philosophically speaking to philosophize a new concept where they are both equal.
    Of course. We can redefine "zero" to mean 5. The we redefine "infinity" to mean 5. Ta da! zero = infinity.

    Meanwhile, back in the real world ...
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teralek View Post
    - If nothing is zero
    But is it? It is not immediately obvious they are equivalent.

    physics show that, in theory everything can come from nothing
    Does it? How does it do that?

    Nothing is a probability wave, of nothing and everything (nothing=everything)
    How can nothing be a probability wave? Nothing is well, nothing. The absence of anything.

    Both zero and infinity defy measurement.
    Zero certainly doesn't defy measurement. It is trivially easy. Infinity may not be measurable but it is certainly mathematically well-defined (and not equal to zero).

    Michio Kaku on wrote on a black board that 1/0 = infinity
    Yet more evidence that he is not to be trusted.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
     

  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Just a point here, I agree with you by the way on this one but, since strictly speaking both zero and infinity are concepts then it would also be possible, philosophically speaking to philosophize a new concept where they are both equal.
    Of course. We can redefine "zero" to mean 5. The we redefine "infinity" to mean 5. Ta da! zero = infinity.

    Meanwhile, back in the real world ...
    I was kind of counting on Dywyddyr's next responce to highlight that very fact so as to get the point across in a fun way, but yeah,
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
     

  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Teralek View Post
    - If nothing is zero
    But is it? It is not immediately obvious they are equivalent.
    Thinking about this a bit more ... as the formal definition of the natural numbers starts with the null set, I suppose that it is not unreasonable to equate zero and nothing. Kinda.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
     

  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by anticorncob28 View Post
    I have no idea why 30% said it does.
    Scary, isn't it. But then it is a very small number in absolute terms so maybe not too bad.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
     

  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Teralek View Post
    - If nothing is zero
    But is it? It is not immediately obvious they are equivalent.
    Thinking about this a bit more ... as the formal definition of the natural numbers starts with the null set, I suppose that it is not unreasonable to equate zero and nothing. Kinda.
    I think only if you equate zero and nothing you can hope to equate it with infinity. Otherwise there is no hope for you.

    Here is Michio Kaku on the subject Michio Kaku on blackholes and einstein's equations deep flaw - YouTube

    E
    DIT: Watch 4:30
     

  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    physics show that, in theory everything can come from nothing

    Does it? How does it do that?
    Stephen Hawkins has been talking extensively about that! I don't believe it myself. But hey! It's possible according to him.
     

  36. #35  
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    0 is nothing? On a graph, (2,0) is a very real, defined point. "Nothing" can't be defined. I'm no mathematician, but I don't get the infinity = 0 idea.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
     

  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teralek View Post
    I think only if you equate zero and nothing you can hope to equate it with infinity. Otherwise there is no hope for you.
    If it means equating 0 and infinity, there is no hope for me. I'm doooomed.

    EDIT: Watch 4:30
    No thanks.
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
     

  38. #37  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Teralek View Post
    I think only if you equate zero and nothing you can hope to equate it with infinity. Otherwise there is no hope for you.
    If it means equating 0 and infinity, there is no hope for me. I'm doooomed.
    You're not doomed. It's just impossible that zero = infinite in strict mathematical terms where zero is a defined thing

    良い一日を
     

  39. #38  
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    So you're suggesting that 0 has different definitions based upon its use?
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
     

  40. #39  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teralek View Post
    You're not doomed. It's just impossible that zero = infinite in strict mathematical terms where zero is a defined thing
    That is pretty much the only context the question makes sense in (and the only one I am interested in).

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    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
     

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    Can nothing be defined mathematically?
     

  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teralek View Post
    Can nothing be defined mathematically?
    Sure, {} or
    ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by anticorncob28 View Post
    0 =/= infinity. That is a fact. I have no idea why 30% said it does.
    Many people are inadequately educated. This is not in itself sufficient to account for the result. We have to add the fact that many people are unaware of their limitation.
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    In my humble opinion. 0 is a number......infinity is more of a concept that has no beginning or end.
     

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    this is a very interesting question.
    first of all let me start by saying im no mathematician or physicist but i love both subjects
    think about the sum of all numbers. 1 +(-1) + 2 +(-2) + 3 +(-3)...... = 0
    thinking this way, 0 is the sum of all numbers. it is the largest number and contains all numbers within it. 0 stops meaning a lack of something or nothing and means everything.
    many current theories think that symmetries (space-time, antimatter - matter, electro-magnetic force.... etc) are the underlying structure of the fabric of existence and that our universe came into being as a result in a break of these symmetries (this can be seen clearly in the severe lack on antimatter in our universe)
    think of a space with 0 density, it has perfect spacial and force symmetries. think of a space with infinite density, it has perfect spacial and force symmetries. the two scenarios are equivalent.
    this may be an answer to a question mentioned above about how something can arise from nothing, they could be inherently equivalent.

    dont think this really answered ur question but i hope it provided food for thought.
     

  46. #45  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
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    Consider that neither infinity or zero are found in nature and only exist in our minds.
     

  47. #46  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Good point dan hunter *S*
     

  48. #47  
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    0 is not a number, it is a symbol. infinity is not even a symbol, it is nothing.
     

  49. #48  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASG141 View Post
    0 is not a number
    No.

    infinity is not even a symbol, it is nothing.
    No.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  50. #49  
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    consider me empty.

    now prove to me how 0 is a number and infinity is something tangible.
     

  51. #50  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASG141 View Post
    consider me empty.
    Thanks, but I need neither permission nor a hint to do so.

    now prove to me how 0 is a number and infinity is something tangible.
    You made the initial claim.
    That which is asserted without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
     

  52. #51  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
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    Question....if zero is in your bank account, does it then represent a number?
     

  53. #52  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Moderator Comment: The question has been asked and answered. Zero and infinity, by definition, are not the same. Any suggestion that they are, is evidence of either poor understanding, or deliberate trolling. Consequently, there is no discernible merit in keeping the thread open.

    If you feel there are further matters to discuss on this point please pm a mod or admin and argue your case for reopening.

    Thread locked.
     

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