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Thread: Rutherford atom Mk2

  1. #1 Rutherford atom Mk2 
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    Consider:
    [1] An hydrogen ion has no electron shell, it is a proton. It has the density of a neutron star yet 'floats' in water?
    [2] When two atoms collide what causes the rebound (Kinetic Theory) positive charge of the nucleouses or reaction between the outer shells. If the latter the elctron(s) will fly off being unable to move the far more massive nucleous. Of course if the electrons are trapped at a Boscovitch null point (please look up) then the electron can react against the nucleous causing the atom to move as a whole. In fact has anyone attempted to marry quantum mechanics of a single atom with Kinetic theory?Dont forget the de Broglie wave length is 'relative' the
    shell shape changes with point of view.
    [3] There is a measured force of attraction in atoms bonding them together. Think about the model of a metal, here positive nucleouses are 'held together' by an electron 'cloud' does that make much physical sense?
    [4] In crystals and molecules the bonds are directional ie they have strength and
    resist shear. Can an orbiting electron do this - never mind permitted solutions of Bessel equations.
    [5] We speak of 4 forces weak,strong ,gravitational (although they may all be aspects of the same force) and electromagnetic yet chemical energy (and by implication chemical force) works in the opposite direction to electrostatic potential and it is a mighty power!


    JWC


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  3. #2 Re: Rutherford atom Mk2 
    Time Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwclancy
    Consider:
    [1] An hydrogen ion has no electron shell, it is a proton. It has the density of a neutron star yet 'floats' in water?

    You do know that water is H2O, right? Any hydrogen atom ion that finds itself in water will very likely attract an electron while it's there, and become a normal hydrogen atom again.


    [2] When two atoms collide what causes the rebound (Kinetic Theory) positive charge of the nucleouses or reaction between the outer shells. If the latter the elctron(s) will fly off being unable to move the far more massive nucleous. Of course if the electrons are trapped at a Boscovitch null point (please look up) then the electron can react against the nucleous causing the atom to move as a whole. In fact has anyone attempted to marry quantum mechanics of a single atom with Kinetic theory?Dont forget the de Broglie wave length is 'relative' the
    shell shape changes with point of view.
    Definitely the repulsion between their nucleas's. The reason it is so hard to create hydrogen fusion is because of the sheer amount of energy it takes to get the nucleus's to push close enough to stop repelling.

    [3] There is a measured force of attraction in atoms bonding them together. Think about the model of a metal, here positive nucleouses are 'held together' by an electron 'cloud' does that make much physical sense?
    Yes it does. Attraction occurs whenever the protons are closer to the electrons than they are to each other. If moving to a new location would cause the first distance (distance between them and an electron) to grow faster than the other (distance between them and each other), then you can bet they won't make that move.


    [4] In crystals and molecules the bonds are directional ie they have strength and
    resist shear. Can an orbiting electron do this - never mind permitted solutions of Bessel equations.
    The electrons just have to spend more time on one side than they do on the other, and it will be like some of them are staying permanently in one location.

    IE. if you have 20 electrons, which each spend 5% of their time in a given location, that is just like having one electron parked in that location permanently, and not moving.


    [5] We speak of 4 forces weak,strong ,gravitational (although they may all be aspects of the same force) and electromagnetic yet chemical energy (and by implication chemical force) works in the opposite direction to electrostatic potential and it is a mighty power!


    JWC
    Why do you think it's working in the opposite direction of electrostatic potential?


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  4. #3 Re: Rutherford atom Mk2 
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Quote Originally Posted by jwclancy
    Consider:
    [1] An hydrogen ion has no electron shell, it is a proton. It has the density of a neutron star yet 'floats' in water?
    You do know that water is H2O, right? Any hydrogen atom ion that finds itself in water will very likely attract an electron while it's there, and become a normal hydrogen atom again.
    Or attach itself to a water molecule to produce a H3O+ ion.

    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Definitely the repulsion between their nucleas's.
    Would both of you learn how to spell/type nucleus and nucleuses correctly please.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwclancy
    [4] In crystals and molecules the bonds are directional ie they have strength and
    resist shear. Can an orbiting electron do this - never mind permitted solutions of Bessel equations.
    The problem here may be that you are picturing an orbiting electron as actually orbiting, rather than being a smudged possibility whose three dimensional probability shape can be biased in a specific direction.
    And why do I get the impression that you may be throwing around terminology that you don't quite understand?

    Can you provide an example, in detail, of how chemical energy acts opposite to electrostatic force, carefully defining all terms and showing the math.
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