# Dark matter or error in observation?

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• November 4th, 2009, 09:15 PM
bill3969
Dark matter or error in observation?
I just watched a show on dark matter on a cable channel. I think the formula they are using to figure out dark matter's existence is flawed. If you add up the mass of our planet, moon, soar system ect.., they say there shouldn't be enough gravity to hold in the outer systems in our galaxy. I think their error lies in that statement. Let's say we have a 5lb. block at our house. That block weighs 5lbs. not only from its mass alone. In reality it has more weight than 5lbs. at rest at the same given gravity. The formula for the mass of that object should take in to account centrifugal force of an object traveling +/-1035mph on a radius of +/-3963 miles. I'm not good at the math part, so I'll leave that to someone smarter than me. You would have to figure out how much force is exerted throughout the entire earth, figure out the displacement of measurable mass, then add that to the mass of earth. This way the true mass of the earth can be calculated at rest. If you take this in to account, I'll bet that the discrepancy disappears.
• November 4th, 2009, 11:19 PM
ParticleHater
Re: Dark matter or error in observation?
Quote:

Originally Posted by bill3969
I just watched a show on dark matter on a cable channel. I think the formula they are using to figure out dark matter's existence is flawed. If you add up the mass of our planet, moon, soar system ect.., they say there shouldn't be enough gravity to hold in the outer systems in our galaxy. I think their error lies in that statement. Let's say we have a 5lb. block at our house. That block weighs 5lbs. not only from its mass alone. In reality it has more weight than 5lbs. at rest at the same given gravity. The formula for the mass of that object should take in to account centrifugal force of an object traveling +/-1035mph on a radius of +/-3963 miles. I'm not good at the math part, so I'll leave that to someone smarter than me. You would have to figure out how much force is exerted throughout the entire earth, figure out the displacement of measurable mass, then add that to the mass of earth. This way the true mass of the earth can be calculated at rest. If you take this in to account, I'll bet that the discrepancy disappears.

Well they have this problem with reaction at a distance. You see if space is empty where is the Space/Time field.

Just wiat. someone will be any moment to bash you for your aparently obvious view of the problem.

They will also tell you how dumb you are for questioning obvious thing like computational issues with currently driven graity thoerys and how they are totally sound despite that fact that after 50 years of searching they still haven't found the Gravity miracle particle.
• November 5th, 2009, 08:33 AM
Janus
Re: Dark matter or error in observation?
Quote:

Originally Posted by bill3969
I just watched a show on dark matter on a cable channel. I think the formula they are using to figure out dark matter's existence is flawed. If you add up the mass of our planet, moon, soar system ect.., they say there shouldn't be enough gravity to hold in the outer systems in our galaxy. I think their error lies in that statement. Let's say we have a 5lb. block at our house. That block weighs 5lbs. not only from its mass alone. In reality it has more weight than 5lbs. at rest at the same given gravity. The formula for the mass of that object should take in to account centrifugal force of an object traveling +/-1035mph on a radius of +/-3963 miles. I'm not good at the math part, so I'll leave that to someone smarter than me. You would have to figure out how much force is exerted throughout the entire earth, figure out the displacement of measurable mass, then add that to the mass of earth. This way the true mass of the earth can be calculated at rest. If you take this in to account, I'll bet that the discrepancy disappears.

taking into account the Earth's spin for your 5 lb block only results in an difference of 0.27 oz. So even if the entire mass of the Earth was confined to a ring girdling the equator, you could only come up with a small fraction of a percent difference.

Dark matter, on the other hand, has to make up many times as much mass as regular matter.

Besides that, do you really think that all the people working on this problem would have missed such an elementary solution?
• November 5th, 2009, 08:46 AM
TheBiologista
Re: Dark matter or error in observation?
Quote:

Originally Posted by ParticleHater
Just wiat. someone will be any moment to bash you for your aparently obvious view of the problem.

They will also tell you how dumb you are for questioning obvious thing like computational issues with currently driven graity thoerys and how they are totally sound despite that fact that after 50 years of searching they still haven't found the Gravity miracle particle.

Who exactly called you dumb? We have rules against that here, so if you could point me to the post(s) in question will certainly take action any users who have personally attacked you.

What you bemoan as "bashing" is in fact appropriate resistence to new ideas. We don't ignore or dismiss, but we do doubt, dismantle and criticise. That is how open mindedness differs from credulousness. And that scepticism is central to good science. If we do not believe you, it is because you have not convinced us. The way to do that is with evidence, not accusations.
• November 5th, 2009, 06:53 PM
bill3969
Thank you for clearing that up. I would have thought there would be a much bigger difference in weight. And yes, I do think this could have been overlooked. Many times we think so hard about something, we miss the simple things.

Particlehater: They called Einstein dumb too, kicked him out of college, and he became one of science's greatest gifts. You shouldn't worry about what others think of you or your ideas if they could be right.
• November 6th, 2009, 12:06 PM
TheBiologista
Quote:

Originally Posted by bill3969
Particlehater: They called Einstein dumb too, kicked him out of college, and he became one of science's greatest gifts.

Einstein was never kicked out of college... he failed an entrance exam once but he hadn't even finished secondary school at that point. Then he went to third level and graduated with a diploma. "They" certainly never called him dumb. There was resistance to his ideas, but that was entirely appropriate because they implied significant changes in our understanding. Should his ideas have been accepted without attack?

It is a fallacy to look at the scepticism leveled at past revolutionaries and then assume that because we are similarly doubted that we must also be correct. We only read the histories of the tiny minority of people who were doubted but right. The majority of people who are doubted are in fact simply wrong. This forum attracts dozens of such would be revolutionaries per week, in all likelihood not one of them is even close to right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill3969
You shouldn't worry about what others think of you or your ideas if they could be right.

On the contrary, scientists like Einstein worried very much what other scientists thought. Without their criticisms, testing and eventual validation of his work, it would have no value. No scientist should be so arrogant as to assume they cannot be mistaken. How would science ever progress if we all took that line and refused to reconsider our positions? Who would have accepted Einstein if they were all so very sure of Newtons universe?
• November 6th, 2009, 01:50 PM
marcusclayman
I feel humbled after reading that, very well said Biologist.