Thread: Higher Space Time and Time Travel.

If there was a higher space time I think we might be able to travel forwards or backwards in time, if we knew how to. We would not destroy ourselves by going back in time and changing past events, like hooking our parents up with different people, because we would exist as separate entities than we once were by making the journey.

By going back in time, and changing things, we become the cause of a new reality within our lower world, whatever the changes may be, and cannot disappear because of our changes as a result. We are now just matter and energy that has simply broken off from the old reality, from which we once originated, and traveled to another time and place, within the same world. We have created a new reality within the world, as a result of the travel, and have erased the old reality, as a result of the new reality being created. We now simply exist there as if we had been there from the start.

We are no longer connected to the old reality from which we broke because the erasing of the old world by the new one severs our connection to it forever. As a result, we cannot affect ourselves by changing the past of our world because the new reality erases the old reality making the events that follow new events. This solves the controversy concerning time travel backwards because our causes to time cannot bite us in the butt as an effect.

If a higher space time exists then we are on the time of the higher world when we travel back in time. The procession of realities can only exist there in the higher world because they take place there in the space time of the higher world. We would probably be able to make it to the higher world by wormhole or warp drive technology, if it is possible. We could then travel at the speed of light, if possible, relative to our lower world within the space time of the higher one to time travel backwards. Any questions, comments, thoughts?

This new idea could be an explanation for the accelerating expansion of the universe and all the matter we cannot account for today. A new reality may be replacing ours right now! The unknown mass may be a rapidly growing reality, bubbling within our own, as time proceeds, created in the past by something or someone, pressing our current reality through a skiver, sorry for the needed graphic reference, over to feed it with fresh matter and energy.

Matter from our current reality could be being converted, at an increasing rate, into energy, through the pressures exerted by the growing new reality, and normal things like black holes compressing and tearing matter apart into energy, that fizzles out of this reality and travels to the new reality where, perhaps, an alien civilization, eons in the future ahead of us today, technology wise, from another world like ours, perhaps, traveling to our world, to a past time before we could protest, and bringing in matter in the form of habitation, energy, wormhole technology, and the like.

We may one day fizzle out of existence forever into the energy that feed into this new reality, through white holes, or maybe the fizzle of electrons from one reality to the next, which will balance everything out and fill the world into a one whole reality again.

Perhaps the climax of this event, when the new reality reaches a point in it's development, relative to our current reality, both realities could experience a big rip, followed by a big bang, where a final new reality replaces both realities and balances everything out in the world. Think of it as being washed away into oblivion by a huge wave! Don't worry, I am not to try to sound like an angry, evil god or anything, just an idea. Any questions, comments, thoughts?

To sum my first two posts for this topic up, in numerical order:

1) There are two kinds of worlds, higher and lower. Within world lie realities. Realities can be changed by going into the past. The old reality is destroyed in the process, as far as the lower world is concerned. Doing so does not destroy those who have traveled back and did so. They are not destroyed because they have escaped one reality by going into a new one they create by traveling into the past. The higher world has space time like the lower worlds so it keeps track of realities so that one can go back in time, even to different realities. From the higher reality the past becomes a new future and an old future becomes the past when a new reality is created. We can travel to a higher or lower world and vice versa by wormhole, perhaps. We can travel back in time by reaching light speed, perhaps. The black hole is a probably a good place to study for building technology, like wormhole, warp drive, or light speed, that operates at infinite energy.

2) As an explanation for the acceleration of the expansion of space time in our world I suggest a new reality may be taking place. This new reality may be the result of highly advanced aliens looking for space time to steal from us for awhile. This seizure of space time, and the new reality created as a result, will catch up with us, space time wise, one day and tear the space time of the world apart and then big bang it all back into a whole reality, to regain balance for the world. Don't worry, it is just an idea!

I hope this made my idea less confusing for you all!

Originally Posted by mmatt9876

By going back in time, and changing things, we become the cause of a new reality within our lower world, whatever the changes may be, and cannot disappear because of our changes as a result. We are now just matter and energy that has simply broken off from the old reality, from which we once originated, and traveled to another time and place, within the same world. We have created a new reality within the world, as a result of the travel, and have erased the old reality, as a result of the new reality being created. We now simply exist there as if we had been there from the start.

So, what happens if you go back in time and change something, but in a way that has no impact whatsoever on your future self? Suppose you go back in time 10,000 years, and visit Mars, and build a 10 foot tall totem pole (which can't be seen from Earth), and then return to the present.

Would this still cause you to move to a higher order universe, even though no part of human history was impacted by it?

Originally Posted by kojax

So, what happens if you go back in time and change something, but in a way that has no impact whatsoever on your future self? Suppose you go back in time 10,000 years, and visit Mars, and build a 10 foot tall totem pole (which can't be seen from Earth), and then return to the present.

Would this still cause you to move to a higher order universe, even though no part of human history was impacted by it?

What I am trying to say is that when somebody travels back in time, regardless of what they do, to the perception of any intelligence, they fully create a new reality.

The future from which they traveled back becomes a past event to this new reality, in the realm of higher space time, where this event actually happens on the clock.

To say the old reality has been erased is wrong because it has not been erased, as far as higher space time is concerned, just fully replaced in the lower space time of the world.

In the higher world the realities can be seen in their proper procession, if you were able to physically see the time go by and realities being replaced, in the lower world as peoples traveled back into their pasts for whatever reasons.

You can think of it is as being like changing a light from one color, like red, to another, like yellow. The light was once red, in the lower world, and now is yellow there and only those who exist in the higher world can see this.

These changes, if any, might not spell much in terms of significant changes in world events but everything has to change a little by somebody physically going back in time space, at the least you warp space time a little or displace some air by being there.

Right now, I just think of this as a new reality being created over the old, with the old reality being unperceivable to any new peoples in the new reality. This is, in part, because events that have led up to old future events have been changed or altered slightly, not that one could not reason a way back if they had the knowledge to. A new reality physically comes into existence to dissolve the old one, to close the gap between the past and the future of the lower world, so that it would be impossible to go there unless you went all the way back to the previous reality, on higher world time.

The gap between the old past and new future, in between which the old future existed, has disappeared, as far as the new reality of the lower world is concerned. That does not mean you will not end up with the same or similar results in world events, just a whole new reality for it all to fit and grow inside.

I am sorry, I am still working on this for content and volume, and I could probably condense it all down into a few sentences, without much flaw. I will hopefully get there somehow eventually.

So, what would happen if more people went back in time? Would more realities be created, or are the same number of realities always being created regardless? Are there infinity of these realities, or an upward limit?

Originally Posted by kojax

So, what would happen if more people went back in time? Would more realities be created, or are the same number of realities always being created regardless? Are there infinity of these realities, or an upward limit?

As far as realities are concerned somebody can only go back once and that is it for that reality. Time stops for it. So I guess as long as there is a world for the realities to pop up in people will continue to find a way travel back in time and create a new reality over the old. That does not stop that same person from again traveling back in time to create another new reality with their time machine, or whatever it could be. That person could even go back to visit an old reality, through the same higher space time travel, and make it a new reality if they wanted to. Think of it as a library of realities within a world.

Time travel is not possible (physically), beside the difficulty of defining the term. That is not to say that we have no idea of “time’s” properties. Time is independent of its circumstances (information).
The cause (time when it starts) of an event will not determine the outcome of the event. If I understand correctly you assume that every possible outcome is happening but in different or higher space time. If that’s true it still wouldn’t help you because you still wouldn’t know the event location and even if you did and would be able to change it , it wouldn’t change anything because you’re covering all possibilities, so it would automatically happen somewhere else, with or without your input or anybody else’s for that matter. If you understand where I’m going with this, you’d realize the improbability of such scenario.
I have a simpler explanation of why time travel is not possible. Time does not have “memory”. If “time” was an outside observer it wouldn’t know when an event happened. If “it” could slide on a scale back and forth it only could “see” the “present”. If by some miracle an event “changed” it wouldn’t know. Same for the “future”, except that if “it” managed to “see” it would be already the “present”. Let say you went to your friend house the first time (not knowing the house plan) and went to sleep in a room and you start sleepwalking in your dream, knocking over a lamp and use the restroom. Waking up you wouldn’t know that any change took place. It would appear as “now” because you would have no memory of any change. All said, it doesn’t mean that we will not be able to “manipulate” time for our advantage. We already doing it, for example: by videotaping events. As you know, in many cases makes the difference between found guilty or innocent in the court of law. I hope this helps.

Fallowimg the same thought process; altering a picture or videotape (without getting caught) would change the future in present time (we still wouldn't know it) and may not be able to correct it ever or if we did we still couldn't change the past. This is a dangerous weapon with a double edge. I'm pretty sure it has precedent and will not be the last time. So, be careful, what you wish for.

To sum everything up in short I was just trying to say that if time travel was possible maybe it would have to happen inside of another space time world of some sort, otherwise how would you get there, through nothing? In order for something to take place it must exist somewhere so I am guessing that is what higher space time would be. Time travel is mostly all science fiction right now so I have no way of knowing if this idea is correct. I certainly believe time travel backward would be a terribly dangerous thing. I would probably only resort to such a thing to save someone I love from death. In my higher space time idea I imagine it would still be possible to go back to point before you traveled back and changed things and tell yourself then it was the wrong choice and basically change everything back to their intended course. Messy idea, I apologize!

I do not mean to offend you but we live in real space time. Your idea is best suited for Hollywwod if you have a good enough script like "17 again". It will teach you something.
As far as the concept: it has no scientific, philosophical or even religious fundation.
Then again , it's nothing wrong with daydreaming in pursuit of happiness (an other good movie, based on a true story).
Don't give up, keep thinking and posting. You will have a future, where the past will bring good memories back.

Time travel is possible, because do not think that time travel is about time moving backward, even progressive time motion is time travel.

Secondly, moving back to the past and changing the past, if that can happen, what you may get is more than one universe, where in one universe, is the history of what happens and the other universe is the past you changed, and if that can happen, then, there is no contradiction, because what happens happened which you cannot change, just like if what Hitler did to the Jews is true, then, that is true, but what you can change is that you create another universe, where there is a new universe you create based on the history that you changed, while maybe at the same time, there is also another universe that shows what happened in the past before you changed it.

Where there is more than one cosmos, one is the cosmos showing what happened before and the other cosmos is the history that you changed, and if that can happen, then, there is no contradiction.

I like that old paradox of going back in time to murder your own grandfather in order to prevent your own birth, thus preventing you going back in time in the first place to kill your own grandfather. Not sure where that sits with your old and new reality idea.

But to get around that paradox I like the idea that, if going back in time were possible (and time was linear), then it would be impossible to change past events. For instance, you make the decision to go back in time and murder your grandfather but no matter how hard you try to achieve your grisly goal, something will always physically block your final attempt from doing so. Perhaps you’ll trip and fall onto a road and get run over by a lorry or simply change your mind at the very last second.

Trying to manipulate any past event would be as futile as some kid playing with a mirror by trying to move quicker than his own reflection. You’d just get frustrated. Like hitting your head off a

Originally Posted by pineapples

But to get around that paradox I like the idea that, if going back in time were possible (and time was linear), then it would be impossible to change past events. For instance, you make the decision to go back in time and murder your grandfather but no matter how hard you try to achieve your grisly goal, something will always physically block your final attempt from doing so.

Or even, that it is your intervention (a failed attempt kill him) that leads to him meeting your grandmother and ...

Originally Posted by Strange

Originally Posted by pineapples

But to get around that paradox I like the idea that, if going back in time were possible (and time was linear), then it would be impossible to change past events. For instance, you make the decision to go back in time and murder your grandfather but no matter how hard you try to achieve your grisly goal, something will always physically block your final attempt from doing so.

Or even, that it is your intervention (a failed attempt kill him) that leads to him meeting your grandmother and ...

If I didn’t know better I’d say you’ve just gone and deliberately dropped a little paradox spanner in my hazy logic on linear time!

So I guess that’s a bit like a future me appearing in a time machine to inform my past-self that I will be the first person ever to invent a time machine then proceed to give past-self the blue prints for said time machine.
There’s a paradox there, just can’t quite place my finger on it! Or maybe it’s just an incredibly improbable chain of events rather than a impossible one?

Well, as it’s been said many time before, we’ve not been overwhelmed by a constant stream of time travelers popping in and out so it’s all probably impossible.

I am unsure whether or not the universe exists. Because the materialist feels that there is a physical world independent of your thinking, while if a person is a nihilist, then, he may feel that the universe does not exist. Maybe he will argue that what a person sees may not represent what is before his thinking.

But I do feel that there is fact existing independent of your thinking, but I am not sure what the fact is. If there is a material world, then, the fact will be that there is a material world. If there is no physical world, then, the fact will be that there is no material world.

So the question whether or not is there a time, or can time exist if nothing exists, these questions may be important to me, because if there is no time, then, maybe we will be talking about something that is not there.

So I am a factualist, but maybe not a materialist. And I also feel that practical philosophy is important, that a person needs to apply philosophy to his daily life if he is going to be practical.

Please confine philosophical discussions to discussions in that forum.

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Sounds kind of like you would be creating a new universe. Every time you travel back in time, you create a replica of your universe, where your interactions affect only that universe's future.

Originally Posted by pineapples

So I guess that’s a bit like a future me appearing in a time machine to inform my past-self that I will be the first person ever to invent a time machine then proceed to give past-self the blue prints for said time machine.
There’s a paradox there, just can’t quite place my finger on it! Or maybe it’s just an incredibly improbable chain of events rather than a impossible one?

I believe this is called a time loop - something that is received from the future and then passed back to the past, yet is never created.

The biggest problem with all this is that time travel is only possible one way - to the future - and that is what we are all doing, each and every day!

Travelling back in time is impossible in the way it is usually conceived. One cannot travel back to a past that existed as that past no longer exists! Everything in that past has moved on to the present; every sub atomic particle, every bit of energy has moved on.

That is not to say that travelling back in time is impossible, per se. If one could travel back in time there would be nothing there.
Time is ephemeral, reality exists only for the present, only 'now' exists. The past existed, the future will exist, but now is all that exists, is the only reality.

If one could go back and kill ones grandfather, then he would only die when you went back, so you must have existed, so killing him would create a 'new reality', yet it would not, could not, affect the old one! It would be a new one and the old one must continue for all those that didn't travel back in time.

But that still wouldn't solve the problem of the time loop

And what about those plans that are passed to your younger self? Every time the old you passed them to the young you, they would become more aged and eventually they would fall apart - so maybe the loop would fail - and create a new reality.

Happy thinking everyone!

i agree with you in some areas we all are traveling through time by an slit rotation of earth,buh dat dose'nt imply that we cannot travel bacck in time....for example the philadephia experiment....it is believed that an experiment was ran on the ww2 destroyer ship.just to crack its visibility,making it invisible to raders and so.....strong electromagnetic was used....about 42telsa.this created a rip in spacetime.the ship and its crew got lost.....to when we do not know....buh if a similar experiment was carried out with a car or anytinelse in 2012,using same 42telsa,it will tend to create a similar rip in space time so that it will align with that of 1943....and its will appear as a short cut between 2012&1943....the ship should be in 2012,while the car in 2012 should be in 1943....

Originally Posted by merumario

i agree with you in some areas we all are traveling through time by an slit rotation of earth,buh dat dose'nt imply that we cannot travel bacck in time....for example the philadephia experiment....it is believed that an experiment was ran on the ww2 destroyer ship.just to crack its visibility,making it invisible to raders and so...

Hocus Pokus. It never happened.
The Straight Dope: Did the U.S. Navy teleport ships in the Philadelphia Experiment?

Edit to add: Philadelphia Experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Originally Posted by merumario

i agree with you in some areas we all are traveling through time by an slit rotation of earth,buh dat dose'nt imply that we cannot travel bacck in time....for example the philadephia experiment....it is believed that an experiment was ran on the ww2 destroyer ship.just to crack its visibility,making it invisible to raders and so...

Hocus Pokus. It never happened.The Straight Dope: Did the U.S. Navy teleport ships in the Philadelphia Experiment?Edit to add: Philadelphia Experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

come on fly! Thats the fiction part...am just making it suit this thread

Originally Posted by merumario

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Originally Posted by merumario

i agree with you in some areas we all are traveling through time by an slit rotation of earth,buh dat dose'nt imply that we cannot travel bacck in time....for example the philadephia experiment....it is believed that an experiment was ran on the ww2 destroyer ship.just to crack its visibility,making it invisible to raders and so...

Hocus Pokus. It never happened.The Straight Dope: Did the U.S. Navy teleport ships in the Philadelphia Experiment?Edit to add: Philadelphia Experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

come on fly! Thats the fiction part...am just making it suit this thread

Site rules/guidelines:
Section 7 sub B: Responding to other members-
In the event of encountering stupid commentary from Member, "Neverfly"; Procedure is to ignore such commentary so as to reduce shame brought onto the forum.

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Originally Posted by merumario

Originally Posted by Neverfly

Originally Posted by merumario

i agree with you in some areas we all are traveling through time by an slit rotation of earth,buh dat dose'nt imply that we cannot travel bacck in time....for example the philadephia experiment....it is believed that an experiment was ran on the ww2 destroyer ship.just to crack its visibility,making it invisible to raders and so...

Hocus Pokus. It never happened.The Straight Dope: Did the U.S. Navy teleport ships in the Philadelphia Experiment?Edit to add: Philadelphia Experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

come on fly! Thats the fiction part...am just making it suit this thread

Site rules/guidelines:Section 7 sub B: Responding to other members-In the event of encountering stupid commentary from Member, "Neverfly"; Procedure is to ignore such commentary so as to reduce shame brought onto the forum.

you make me remember a question:if there are no stupid questions what kind of questions do stupid ppl ask? Do they get smart enough to ask good questions?........fly the case here is that the whole thread is a fiction.giving it a fic. Post does'nt make it less a science thread...just dont be the latter(stupidity)

Posting questions is never stupid. Rejecting answers due to stupidity is stupid.

Yea...in this case rejectin answers due to stupidity is being stupid.

What if time is a straight line but the size of it is infinite? Like modern day has been created by the future so that us humans can create the present if you so what i'm saying?

You're suffering from a geometry deficiency.
If time is a "straight line" then the future doesn't affect the past/ present.

It could setup the big bang though which creates another universe exactly likes this one in which exactly the same thing happens for the universe to exist in the first place. If you realise that something cannot simply come from nothing as nothing can't be measured or found then you are going to keep zooming in on an atom to find that there's something smaller that it consists of and this is going on and on and on. Try expanding your weak mind with aid from others and i think you'll find that not everyone is looking to just prove that they're better than you on a small website.

Time travel goes against common sense and causality. Confusion arises here because the rate of time varies according to cosmic factors. Time passes slower in outer space than near a body like the earth. Also, our theories about energy and time use basic theories full of holes, like general relativity and quantum mechanics. Space doesn't "curve and bend." Space isn't "empty", there is a conductiung medium which transmits forces via instantaneous resonance between elementary energy units. "Particles" don't get thrown into space and move like a pitcher throws a ball. We need to change a lot of ideas to understand time as well as space and energy.

Originally Posted by Michael Anteski

Space doesn't "curve and bend."

Evidence?

Space isn't "empty", there is a conductiung medium which transmits forces via instantaneous resonance between elementary energy units.

Evidence?

We need to change a lot of ideas to understand time as well as space and energy.

There may be some truth in that. After all science is always moving forward. However, ideas will be changed by evidence and good scientific theories. Not by ignorant drivel.

Strange: Your Post commenting on my preceding Post critically asked for "evidence" regarding my saying that "space is not curved." -I realize that you don't subscribe to my theory about a universal ether which acts basically via elemental energic units, but for the record on my own to clarify what I meant by saying space "isn't curved," I meant that despite observing curvature mechanisms occurring in space, space is not an empty void with a magical curvature itself. -Again, just for the record, my ether model would have it that macrocosmic curvature observations are derived from etheric processes conducted up the size-scale of energic units all the way up to the size scales of the cosmos. -In a sense, general relativity's "curved space" is a reflection of curved processes all the way back to the curvature of the spatial yin-yang oscillational curvature that preceded the first elemental ether energic units. The primal energic process produced a winding electro magnetic moment with a finite width that results in a curving pattern in space. -Again, trying to clarify my theory isn't meant to get approval from anyone but to keep the record clear.

A few minor corrections:

Originally Posted by Michael Anteski

I realize that you don't subscribe to my [wildly speculative hypothesis] about a universal ether which acts basically via elemental magic units, but for the record on my own to clarify what I meant by saying space "isn't curved," I meant that despite observing curvature mechanisms occurring in space, space is not an empty void with a magical curvature itself.

Pant
Gasp
Wheeze

Originally Posted by Michael Anteski

Again, just for the record, my ether model would have it that macrocosmic curvature observations are derived from etheric processes conducted up the size-scale of energic units all the way up to the size scales of the cosmos. -In a sense, general relativity's "curved space" is a reflection of curved processes all the way back to the curvature of the spatial yin-yang oscillational curvature that preceded the first elemental ether energic units. The primal energic process produced a winding electro magnetic moment with a finite width that results in a curving pattern in space. -Again, trying to clarify my theory isn't meant to get approval from anyone but to keep the record clear.

I was going to do this as above but the more I read, the more I laughed so hard I thought I was going to have geriatric coughing fits.
It doesn't need alteration- it's hilarious all by itself.
Maybe you need to create a massive tachyon surge from the Main Deflector Dish and phase it through the Dor'Chach frequencies to somehow invert spacetime in a microbubble that will absorb the warp reactor overload.

Originally Posted by Michael Anteski

Strange: Your Post commenting on my preceding Post critically asked for "evidence" regarding my saying that "space is not curved." -I realize that you don't subscribe to my theory about a universal ether which acts basically via elemental energic units, but for the record on my own to clarify what I meant by saying space "isn't curved," I meant that despite observing curvature mechanisms occurring in space, space is not an empty void with a magical curvature itself. -Again, just for the record, my ether model would have it that macrocosmic curvature observations are derived from etheric processes conducted up the size-scale of energic units all the way up to the size scales of the cosmos. -In a sense, general relativity's "curved space" is a reflection of curved processes all the way back to the curvature of the spatial yin-yang oscillational curvature that preceded the first elemental ether energic units. The primal energic process produced a winding electro magnetic moment with a finite width that results in a curving pattern in space. -Again, trying to clarify my theory isn't meant to get approval from anyone but to keep the record clear.

So no evidence then?

If there is no evidence for your ideas then they have no reality. There is no reason for anyone to take "energic units" or "etheric processes" seriously if you have no evidence.

If you have no evidence then you do not have a theory. All you have is random and meaningless words.

Time Reborn by Lee Smolin

Has anyone looked into what Lee Smolin proposes? Thought it might fit here for the discussion. It's pretty interesting. It's not about time travel, per se...but it talks about a 'rebirth of time,' so to speak. A new way of viewing it. (If you decide to read it, pls read the entire article, as it's hard to capture what Lee Smolin is getting at, if you skim.)

Originally Posted by kojax

So, what would happen if more people went back in time? Would more realities be created, or are the same number of realities always being created regardless? Are there infinity of these realities, or an upward limit?

My question would be:

Would it change history as a whole?

Babe don't tell me you woke this thread again

Originally Posted by merumario

Babe don't tell me you woke this thread again

I am guilty!

Hit me with a wet cucumber slice!

Is this a bad thing?

I thought it would be interesting. Can't prove it, but interesting discussion as to how it could change history by meddling in it.

I mean even with your own family. How could have your life been different?

Not at all babe

So are you a predestination believer?

Upfront, I will state, that I am not.