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Thread: How to prove origin of life on earth with quantum biology

  1. #1 How to prove origin of life on earth with quantum biology 
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    Where is life from? The human souls has been puzzled by it for thousands of years.Through great efforts of bioscience researchers, a giant leap ,has been made in the study field of origin of life over the century .
    But just as what was said by Orgle (1)that“almost everything else about the origin of life remains obscure, Little is known in certain about neither the physical environment in which life evolved nor the detailed steps that led from unconstrained abiotic chemistry to the biochemistry with systematical complexity ”.
    As early as the 50~70 years of the twentieth century Calvin(2) had proved by experiments that the process of nucleotide gathering into nuclear acid and amino acid gathering into poly peptide and protein must undergo dehydration reaction. So we want to interpret correctly the origin of life from fountainhead, we must prove “water is the headstream of life”.
    To interpret that water is one of the physical environment for life’s evolvement, we must prove that water had formed first, and then the organic substance of life came formed on the earth。
    ref.(1) L.E. Orgel, In the beginning Nature 439 , 915 (2006);
    (2) M.Calvin,G.M.Androes,Primary Quantum conversion in Photosynthesis:Low-temperature photoparamagnetism bespeaks electron transfer and migration as the earliest event Science 138,867-873(1962)


    Explain the mystery of origin of life on quantum biology
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  3. #2  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    So, you have no clue how?!


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  4. #3 Re:Re:How to prove origin of life on e 
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    If we want to prove origin of life ,we must prove water is headstream
    Of life ,so we must prove following question :
    1.water is an important composite of life (include any living creature),but the water is not only the important component part to form life, but also it is a vary important medium of the forming of life and life live.;
    2.No water no living creature;
    3.water first formed and after which the other organic of life formed on the earth;
    4.what physical chemistry characteristic of water make prerequisites of generation and evolution of life.
    1. water is an important composite of life:There are lots of research data which demonstrate
    water is an important composite of life (include any living creature),the content of water in any living creature is more than 60%,in some water living organisms it is more than 90%,but the water is not only the important component part to form life, but also it is a vary important medium of the forming of life and life live.;
    2.No water no living creature:when we are going to desert we would find there are water there are an oasis of life ,another example now scientist‘s only standard is that whether or not there is a water when he determine whether or not there is a living creature on some one celestial body .
    Through above mentioned we see “water is headstream of life ”it is the truth in fact,but how to prove it on science ?“The fossils do not matter if the early earth's atmosphere was contributive or prohibitive to the formation of organic molecules”,for the past six years,we take a serial analysis for the origin of life on earth from quantum biology ,the result as following .
    3.water first formed and after which the other organic of life formed on the earth;
    27 kinds of elements are selected from those of 94 existed on the earth which make up organism and support life’s activity, see table 1.
    Since these substance elements have been selected by life, they must have some physical and chemical characteristics which suit to constitute a life. From table 1, it can be known that of all the elements of the composition of organism, carbon(C), hydrogen(H),oxygen(O)and nitrogen(N)occupy more than 96%.On account of energy determine matter structure,so which formed first on the earth, water or life,s organic matter could be identified by analyzing the molecular structure mechanics of“H”,“O”,“C”,“N”in water and other life,s organic matter.
    Table.1 constituent ratio of several main elements for life-form (percentage of dry weight)
    Elements symbol bacterium yeast maize Human’s body
    C 50.00 49.80 43.57 55.99
    H 8.00 12.40 6.24 7.46
    O 20.00 6.70 44.43 14.62
    N 15.00 31.10 1.46 9.33
    P 3.00 _____ 0.20 3.11
    S 1.00 _____ 0.17 0.78
    The substance on the earth can be divided into three major kinds: inorganic , organic and water classically divided into inorganic(include water)and organic. Water standing out as one kind in our opinion is because its great importance for life’s formation and activity, What’s more, the atoms of water combine with each other via covalent bond, and this is the main link for atoms bounding of organic substance and various macrobiomolecules.
    Great quantity of trial data shows the stability of covalent bond stands related to some bond parameters which includes the bond length, bond energy and the electro-negativities .
    The bond length and bond energy of several mainly chemical elements of life are compared in table 2
    Generally speaking, the stronger the electron cloud overlaps and the shorter the bond length is, the stronger the stability of the bond is.
    If analyzing the stability of the mutual-compounded-elements of the three main sorts by the length of bond, it can be found that the bond length of ‘O-H’ is the shortest, ‘C-C’ the longest and ‘C-H’ the middle. By this token, it can come to a conclusion that the compound of hydrogen and
    oxygen is the strongest among those of other elements.
    According to the bond length from short to long we can obtain follow a progressive increase number sequence:

    O-H(96.0)<N-H(103.8)<C-H(105.6) < H-S(135.0) <C-O(143.0)
    < C-N(147.2) < C-C(154.1) < C-S(181.5)

    Analyzing the stability of the mutual-compounded-elements via the bond energy, a decrease progressive number sequence can be as follows:

    O-H(462.8)>C-H(413.0)>N-H(390.8)>C-O(357.0)>H-S(347.4)>
    C-C(345.6)>C-N(304.6)>C-S(272.0)
    table 2 :The comparison of bond length and bond energy of several mainly elements to life

    Sorts of bond Length of bond (pm) Energy of bond (kj/mol)
    C-H 105.6±1.5 413.0
    C-O 143.0±1.0 357.7
    C-C 154.1±3.0 345.6
    C-N 147.2±0.5 304.6
    C-S 181.5±1.0 272.0
    O-H 96.0±5.0 462.8
    N-H 103.8± 390.8
    H-S 135.0± 347.4

    In general, the higher the bond energy is, the firmer the compound between atoms is. From the number sequence above, it can be found that the energy of the compound of ‘O-H’ is highest, ‘C-C’ is lowest and ‘C-H’ is in the middle, thus it can indicate that the compound of hydrogen and oxygen is stronger than that of hydrogen and carbon.
    Electro-negativities is a kind of ability that atom attracts bond electron into covalent bond. According to the average valence electron energy AVEE measured by photoelectron spectroscopy, we can see some statistics show the electro-negativity of the several main elements of life, see table 3
    Table 3, the electro-negativity of several main elements of life
    Elements symbols Electro-negativity
    H 2.30
    C 2.54
    O 3.61
    N 3.07
    S 2.59
    P 2.25
    The electro-negativity of elements in life-form are arranged, we can obtain a number sequence as follows:

    O (3.5) > N (3.0) > C = S(2.5) > H = P(2.2)

    Therefore, it can be inferred that when the hydrogen meets with oxygen and carbon at the same time, hydrogen will combine with oxygen at first, because the electro-negativity of oxygen is bigger than that of carbon obviously.
    Because of energy determine the combination of matter elements mutual and it’s order , for example, when we take a piece of iron into between tow magnet which different in size ,the iron will go to large magnet furthermore the large magnet can draw the iron which had attracted by the small magnet. Through the above analysis, it can be totally testified that the combination of hydrogen and oxygen had precedence over that of hydrogen and carbon on the earth whether from the point of bond length, bond energy, or from the point of electro negativity of elements. Therefore we believe that it is water that formed at first, and later the organic matter of life is formed.,in the remote antiquity period, a lot of material elements of life were colliding with each other, these atoms of elements were in an irregular heat movement because the earth and the space around it are undergoing a very high temperature. In the beginning, water formed in the space of earth is in form of vapor and when the temperature of earth and its space reduced to critical temperature(Tk=647.2k,Pk=217.7), water turns into liquid state,which become pouring rain.,how long had it lasted,for several days or several months still needs further researches. Flood was washing the surface of earth to form river,lake,and sea ,which make up the important physical and chemical environment for the forming of organic of life,macrobiomolecules, and cell life.
    4. what physical chemistry characteristic of water make prerequisites of generation and evolution of life.
    See another post.
    Explain the mystery of origin of life on quantum biology
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  5. #4  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    haven't you started a thread like this before ?

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/Expla...ogy-20454t.php

    it didn't appear to lead anywhere, so why try again ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  6. #5 Re: Re&#65306;Re&#65306;How to prove origin of life  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    If we want to prove origin of life ,we must prove water is headstream
    Of life ,so we must prove following question :
    1.water is an important composite of life (include any living creature),but the water is not only the important component part to form life, but also it is a vary important medium of the forming of life and life live.;
    2.No water no living creature;
    3.water first formed and after which the other organic of life formed on the earth;
    4.what physical chemistry characteristic of water make prerequisites of generation and evolution of life.
    1. water is an important composite of life:There are lots of research data which demonstrate
    water is an important composite of life (include any living creature),the content of water in any living creature is more than 60%,in some water living organisms it is more than 90%,but the water is not only the important component part to form life, but also it is a vary important medium of the forming of life and life live.;
    2.No water no living creature:when we are going to desert we would find there are water there are an oasis of life ,another example now scientist‘s only standard is that whether or not there is a water when he determine whether or not there is a living creature on some one celestial body .
    Through above mentioned we see “water is headstream of life ”it is the truth in fact,but how to prove it on science ?“The fossils do not matter if the early earth's atmosphere was contributive or prohibitive to the formation of organic molecules”,for the past six years,we take a serial analysis for the origin of life on earth from quantum biology ,the result as following .
    3.water first formed and after which the other organic of life formed on the earth;
    27 kinds of elements are selected from those of 94 existed on the earth which make up organism and support life’s activity, see table 1.
    Since these substance elements have been selected by life, they must have some physical and chemical characteristics which suit to constitute a life. From table 1, it can be known that of all the elements of the composition of organism, carbon(C), hydrogen(H),oxygen(O)and nitrogen(N)occupy more than 96%.On account of energy determine matter structure,so which formed first on the earth, water or life,s organic matter could be identified by analyzing the molecular structure mechanics of“H”,“O”,“C”,“N”in water and other life,s organic matter.
    Table.1 constituent ratio of several main elements for life-form (percentage of dry weight)
    Elements symbol bacterium yeast maize Human’s body
    C 50.00 49.80 43.57 55.99
    H 8.00 12.40 6.24 7.46
    O 20.00 6.70 44.43 14.62
    N 15.00 31.10 1.46 9.33
    P 3.00 _____ 0.20 3.11
    S 1.00 _____ 0.17 0.78
    The substance on the earth can be divided into three major kinds: inorganic , organic and water classically divided into inorganic(include water)and organic. Water standing out as one kind in our opinion is because its great importance for life’s formation and activity, What’s more, the atoms of water combine with each other via covalent bond, and this is the main link for atoms bounding of organic substance and various macrobiomolecules.
    Great quantity of trial data shows the stability of covalent bond stands related to some bond parameters which includes the bond length, bond energy and the electro-negativities .
    The bond length and bond energy of several mainly chemical elements of life are compared in table 2
    Generally speaking, the stronger the electron cloud overlaps and the shorter the bond length is, the stronger the stability of the bond is.
    If analyzing the stability of the mutual-compounded-elements of the three main sorts by the length of bond, it can be found that the bond length of ‘O-H’ is the shortest, ‘C-C’ the longest and ‘C-H’ the middle. By this token, it can come to a conclusion that the compound of hydrogen and
    oxygen is the strongest among those of other elements.
    According to the bond length from short to long we can obtain follow a progressive increase number sequence:

    O-H(96.0)<N-H(103.8)<C-H(105.6) < H-S(135.0) <C-O(143.0)
    < C-N(147.2) < C-C(154.1) < C-S(181.5)

    Analyzing the stability of the mutual-compounded-elements via the bond energy, a decrease progressive number sequence can be as follows:

    O-H(462.8)>C-H(413.0)>N-H(390.8)>C-O(357.0)>H-S(347.4)>
    C-C(345.6)>C-N(304.6)>C-S(272.0)
    table 2 :The comparison of bond length and bond energy of several mainly elements to life

    Sorts of bond Length of bond (pm) Energy of bond (kj/mol)
    C-H 105.6±1.5 413.0
    C-O 143.0±1.0 357.7
    C-C 154.1±3.0 345.6
    C-N 147.2±0.5 304.6
    C-S 181.5±1.0 272.0
    O-H 96.0±5.0 462.8
    N-H 103.8± 390.8
    H-S 135.0± 347.4

    In general, the higher the bond energy is, the firmer the compound between atoms is. From the number sequence above, it can be found that the energy of the compound of ‘O-H’ is highest, ‘C-C’ is lowest and ‘C-H’ is in the middle, thus it can indicate that the compound of hydrogen and oxygen is stronger than that of hydrogen and carbon.
    Electro-negativities is a kind of ability that atom attracts bond electron into covalent bond. According to the average valence electron energy AVEE measured by photoelectron spectroscopy, we can see some statistics show the electro-negativity of the several main elements of life, see table 3
    Table 3, the electro-negativity of several main elements of life
    Elements symbols Electro-negativity
    H 2.30
    C 2.54
    O 3.61
    N 3.07
    S 2.59
    P 2.25
    The electro-negativity of elements in life-form are arranged, we can obtain a number sequence as follows:

    O (3.5) > N (3.0) > C = S(2.5) > H = P(2.2)

    Therefore, it can be inferred that when the hydrogen meets with oxygen and carbon at the same time, hydrogen will combine with oxygen at first, because the electro-negativity of oxygen is bigger than that of carbon obviously.
    Because of energy determine the combination of matter elements mutual and it’s order , for example, when we take a piece of iron into between tow magnet which different in size ,the iron will go to large magnet furthermore the large magnet can draw the iron which had attracted by the small magnet. Through the above analysis, it can be totally testified that the combination of hydrogen and oxygen had precedence over that of hydrogen and carbon on the earth whether from the point of bond length, bond energy, or from the point of electro negativity of elements. Therefore we believe that it is water that formed at first, and later the organic matter of life is formed.,in the remote antiquity period, a lot of material elements of life were colliding with each other, these atoms of elements were in an irregular heat movement because the earth and the space around it are undergoing a very high temperature. In the beginning, water formed in the space of earth is in form of vapor and when the temperature of earth and its space reduced to critical temperature(Tk=647.2k,Pk=217.7), water turns into liquid state,which become pouring rain.,how long had it lasted,for several days or several months still needs further researches. Flood was washing the surface of earth to form river,lake,and sea ,which make up the important physical and chemical environment for the forming of organic of life,macrobiomolecules, and cell life.
    4. what physical chemistry characteristic of water make prerequisites of generation and evolution of life.
    See another post.
    what has this got to do with quantum biology?
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  7. #6 Re: Re&#65306;Re&#65306;How to prove origin of life 
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    what has this got to do with quantum biology?
    My question exactly. It seems more connected with stating the bloody obvious.
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  8. #7 Re&#65306;what has this got to do with quantum biology? 
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    Spuriousmonkey,marnixR,ophiolite
    Thanks ,for your view .We through analysis for the quantum parameter(include bond length ,bond energy and electronegativity) of “H”,“O”,“C”,“N”,“P”, we may speculate the early or late sequence of formed Of water,saccharides,amino acid etc during these substance elements collide each other after the earth going to chemical reaction period,through these sequence analysis result shows that water first formed and then other organic of life formed ,so we may speculate the physical environment in which(water first formed) life evolved and the detailed steps that led from unconstrained abiotic chemistry to the biochemistry with systematical complexity ...
    Explain the mystery of origin of life on quantum biology
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  9. #8  
    Forum Freshman Carbon14's Avatar
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    What ever you want to proov you need to be able to demosrtate. IF you really want to proov that life has evolved from (for example) bacterians, then you must produce a method how you create complex life by evolving bacterians to become as you wish them to be.

    That is solid way how to proov the ground for principle.
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  10. #9  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon14
    What ever you want to proov you need to be able to demosrtate. IF you really want to proov that life has evolved from (for example) bacterians, then you must produce a method how you create complex life by evolving bacterians to become as you wish them to be.

    That is solid way how to proov the ground for principle.
    life evolved from bacteria?

    Since when aren't bacteria part of life?
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon14
    What ever you want to proov you need to be able to demosrtate. IF you really want to proov that life has evolved from (for example) bacterians, then you must produce a method how you create complex life by evolving bacterians to become as you wish them to be.

    That is solid way how to proov the ground for principle.
    life evolved from bacteria?

    Since when aren't bacteria part of life?

    They are. Yes they are. Try more to figure out what I might mean, it should not be so hard no.
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  12. #11  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    Try writing down what you meant like:

    Extant bacteria and all other life evolved from a common ancestor which probably resembled more the extant bacteria than most of the other extant life forms.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    Try writing down what you meant like:

    Extant bacteria and all other life evolved from a common ancestor which probably resembled more the extant bacteria than most of the other extant life forms.
    Nooh, no. If you like to proov that all complex life is generated from less complex, then you must be able to demostrade it by showing how. That would be solid proof of principle.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon14
    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    Try writing down what you meant like:

    Extant bacteria and all other life evolved from a common ancestor which probably resembled more the extant bacteria than most of the other extant life forms.
    Nooh, no. If you like to proov that all complex life is generated from less complex, then you must be able to demostrade it by showing how. That would be solid proof of principle.
    Your hypothesis is wrong then.

    1. complexity is a pitfall.

    Drosophila is a highly evolved animal, which has streamlined its genome and has some genetic quirks. Yet you would qualify it as less complex than a monkey.

    It isn't. All extant species have evolved for the same amount of time.

    2. Plenty of species have gone from complex to 'less complex' (where I use complex in a cautious definition). See for instance parasitic species.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon14
    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    Try writing down what you meant like:

    Extant bacteria and all other life evolved from a common ancestor which probably resembled more the extant bacteria than most of the other extant life forms.
    Nooh, no. If you like to proov that all complex life is generated from less complex, then you must be able to demostrade it by showing how. That would be solid proof of principle.
    Your hypothesis is wrong then.

    1. complexity is a pitfall.

    Drosophila is a highly evolved animal, which has streamlined its genome and has some genetic quirks. Yet you would qualify it as less complex than a monkey.

    It isn't. All extant species have evolved for the same amount of time.

    2. Plenty of species have gone from complex to 'less complex' (where I use complex in a cautious definition). See for instance parasitic species.

    I dont have any hypothesis. It was just example to give about the way how person must do if he want proov, meaning he must be able to demostrate the evolution. Then he has prooven his ground totally. Meaning the principle is prooven that from "that" it can evolve to "this". Secondly, Drosophila has absolutely nothing to do whit what I said. Sorry. Also, you totally mistunderstood what I said from the start.

    It does not matter if something goes from complex to less complex. Its just details. If you want to proov that all life has evolved from non living, then you must demostrate how it is done. That proovs the principle. It depends what is your theory what you try to proov, but the demostration will never go away. That is only real, true grounding evidence. That leaves no room for doupt.

    Q.E.D

    quod erat demonstrandum


    How to prove origin of life on earth with quantum biology


    So the topic ask this. The answer to this is that you must proov any theory by demostration. The scientist must do demostration how life can be born out.

    Ok, you understand now?
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  16. #15  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard spuriousmonkey's Avatar
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    If you want to proov that all life has evolved from non living, then you must demostrate how it is done.
    you have the demonstrate feasible scenarios. They might not equal how it exactly went.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    If you want to proov that all life has evolved from non living, then you must demostrate how it is done.
    you have the demonstrate feasible scenarios. They might not equal how it exactly went.
    I agree. It would be kind of magic if the scenario that is to be demostrated is not rue at all. Also, the theory is valued as much as it can be demostrated practically. Anything else is just thougths. Demostration is gold. Only thing that matters.


    So for example, if one claims that person A is evolved from Monkey B, then he should be able to demostrate the evolity of that genome. If he can do that, then there is no room for doupt. Anything goes whit this principle.

    Then he can sign his works whit

    Q.E.D
    quod erat demonstrandum, which literally means "which was to be demonstrated".

    And all people are bounded to believe, or try it to themselves. Pure science.
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  18. #17 Re:Carbon14 
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    Carben14
    thank you for your view ,you say "What ever you want to proov you need to be able to demosrtate. "you are right but I have no enough money and have no experiments equipment,i will look for co-operation ,do you like ?
    the origin of life on earth this means prebiotic process of life form in mine thinking not an evolving ,right?
    Explain the mystery of origin of life on quantum biology
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  19. #18 the physical environment in which life evolved ? 
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    It has been acquiring a great advance in the study field of origin of life in nearly one century ,but just as what was said by Orgle that“almost everything else about the origin of life remains obscure, Little is known in certain about neither the physical environment in which life evolved nor the detailed steps that led from unconstrained abiotic chemistry to the biochemistry with systematical complexity ” in vol. 439 on nature.
    In the <profound mystery of Life>, We have discussed in detail why water is of great importance for life. It is because that water is not only a necessary ingredient of organism, but an important environment for life’s activity as well, in which various elements of life meet and then integrate each other during the forming of life. If without water, all the matter mentioned above could not be realized. So we can say that water is an important physical environment for life’s evolvement。To interpret that water is one of the physical environment for life’s evolvement, we must prove that water had formed first, and then the organic substance of life came formed. on the earth。
    Explain the mystery of origin of life on quantum biology
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  20. #19 Re: the physical environment in which life evolved ? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    It has been acquiring a great advance in the study field of origin of life in nearly one century ,but just as what was said by Orgle that“almost everything else about the origin of life remains obscure, Little is known in certain about neither the physical environment in which life evolved nor the detailed steps that led from unconstrained abiotic chemistry to the biochemistry with systematical complexity ” in vol. 439 on nature.
    In the <profound mystery of Life>, We have discussed in detail why water is of great importance for life. It is because that water is not only a necessary ingredient of organism, but an important environment for life’s activity as well, in which various elements of life meet and then integrate each other during the forming of life. If without water, all the matter mentioned above could not be realized. So we can say that water is an important physical environment for life’s evolvement。To interpret that water is one of the physical environment for life’s evolvement, we must prove that water had formed first, and then the organic substance of life came formed. on the earth。
    Have you bothered to lok into the palaeontological and geological records? There are fossilized raindrops and ripplemarks from well before the first records of life.
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  21. #20 Re: the physical environment in which life evolved ? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Have you bothered to lok into the palaeontological and geological records? There are fossilized raindrops and ripplemarks from well before the first records of life.
    Is this correct? I think the oldest stromatolites are 3.5 billion years old and there are the questionable isotope ratios in the Issua beds in Greenland from 3.8 billion years. Do we have ripple marks of earlier vintage?
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  22. #21 Re: the physical environment in which life evolved ? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Have you bothered to lok into the palaeontological and geological records? There are fossilized raindrops and ripplemarks from well before the first records of life.
    Is this correct? I think the oldest stromatolites are 3.5 billion years old and there are the questionable isotope ratios in the Issua beds in Greenland from 3.8 billion years. Do we have ripple marks of earlier vintage?
    There are the ~4.1 billion year old ripple marks preserved in the Baraboo Range quartzites of Wisconson.
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  23. #22 How does it's formed that are bio-macromolecules? 
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    The fossils do not matter if the early earth's atmosphere was contributive or prohibitive to the formation of organic molecules. We must begin at the beginning, before palaeontologic organism,we must begin from the formation of bio-macromolecules,so we must seek help from Quantum biology
    Explain the mystery of origin of life on quantum biology
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  24. #23 Re: How does it's formed that are bio-macromolecules? 
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    The fossils do not matter if the early earth's atmosphere was contributive or prohibitive to the formation of organic molecules. We must begin at the beginning, before palaeontologic organism,we must begin from the formation of bio-macromolecules,so we must seek help from Quantum biology
    Your opening post was that water was important to life formation but there was no evidence of water, I have provided evidence, why the need for a make believe branch of biology? Especially if we begin "palaeontologic organism"?
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  25. #24 Re: the physical environment in which life evolved ? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    There are the ~4.1 billion year old ripple marks preserved in the Baraboo Range quartzites of Wisconson.
    Can you give me a citation for this please.

    On line references suggest Late Pre-Cambrian, as much as 1.6 billion years ago, later than 1.85 billions years ago, an indirect reference to the quartzite being Huronian (2.1 - 2.4 billion years), but nothing remotely approaching the 4.1 billion years you mention.
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  26. #25 Re: How does it's formed that are bio-macromolecules? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    The fossils do not matter if the early earth's atmosphere was contributive or prohibitive to the formation of organic molecules. We must begin at the beginning, before palaeontologic organism,we must begin from the formation of bio-macromolecules,so we must seek help from Quantum biology
    Your opening post was that water was important to life formation but there was no evidence of water, I have provided evidence, why the need for a make believe branch of biology? Especially if we begin "palaeontologic organism"?
    It is well know that everything on earth is made of elements,organism are n't exception.How formed the bio-molecules which are mainly component part of organism?the question is solved only by means of quatum biologic analysis .
    One organism became advanced another organism is a evolution;the origin of life should be solve focal point are about the physical environment in which life evolved and the detailed steps that led from unconstrained abiotic chemistry to the biochemistry with systematical complexity .What is the quatum biology?
    Explain the mystery of origin of life on quantum biology
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  27. #26 Re: the physical environment in which life evolved ? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    There are the ~4.1 billion year old ripple marks preserved in the Baraboo Range quartzites of Wisconson.
    Can you give me a citation for this please.

    On line references suggest Late Pre-Cambrian, as much as 1.6 billion years ago, later than 1.85 billions years ago, an indirect reference to the quartzite being Huronian (2.1 - 2.4 billion years), but nothing remotely approaching the 4.1 billion years you mention.
    Wow, this shows I should really not post when operating on lack of sleep, sorry! I saw a 4 and a 1 and didnt process that it was forming 1.4 and not 4.1.
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  28. #27 Re: How does it's formed that are bio-macromolecules? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    The fossils do not matter if the early earth's atmosphere was contributive or prohibitive to the formation of organic molecules. We must begin at the beginning, before palaeontologic organism,we must begin from the formation of bio-macromolecules,so we must seek help from Quantum biology
    Your opening post was that water was important to life formation but there was no evidence of water, I have provided evidence, why the need for a make believe branch of biology? Especially if we begin "palaeontologic organism"?
    It is well know that everything on earth is made of elements,organism are n't exception.How formed the bio-molecules which are mainly component part of organism?the question is solved only by means of quatum biologic analysis .
    One organism became advanced another organism is a evolution;the origin of life should be solve focal point are about the physical environment in which life evolved and the detailed steps that led from unconstrained abiotic chemistry to the biochemistry with systematical complexity .What is the quatum biology?
    The quantum biology is new theory about how formed and changed of the bio-
    macromolecule with quantum physics which study mainly the rule of electron exchange during bio-molecules are forming or resolve.Electron was called quantum because it is turn round in the different energe leve pathway of atom.If people understand water'quantum biaology the people understand the origin of life .
    Explain the mystery of origin of life on quantum biology
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  29. #28 Re: How does it's formed that are bio-macromolecules? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum
    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    The fossils do not matter if the early earth's atmosphere was contributive or prohibitive to the formation of organic molecules. We must begin at the beginning, before palaeontologic organism,we must begin from the formation of bio-macromolecules,so we must seek help from Quantum biology
    Your opening post was that water was important to life formation but there was no evidence of water, I have provided evidence, why the need for a make believe branch of biology? Especially if we begin "palaeontologic organism"?
    It is well know that everything on earth is made of elements,organism are n't exception.How formed the bio-molecules which are mainly component part of organism?the question is solved only by means of quatum biologic analysis .
    One organism became advanced another organism is a evolution;the origin of life should be solve focal point are about the physical environment in which life evolved and the detailed steps that led from unconstrained abiotic chemistry to the biochemistry with systematical complexity .What is the quatum biology?
    The quantum biology is new theory about how formed and changed of the bio-
    macromolecule with quantum physics which study mainly the rule of electron exchange during bio-molecules are forming or resolve.Electron was called quantum because it is turn round in the different energe leve pathway of atom.If people understand water'quantum biaology the people understand the origin of life .
    Why do we need to invoke quantum theory? What's wrong with, say, the RNA world hypothesis. What gaps are there in competing hypotheses which are addressed by your idea?
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  30. #29  
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    I'm going to move this to New Hypotheses- this is not the appropriate forum for discussion for new or fringe scientific ideas.
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  31. #30 Were do RNA from ? 
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    The father of RNA world hypothesis, Orgle said that“almost everything else about the origin of life remains obscure, Little is known in certain about neither the physical environment in which life evolved nor the detailed steps that led from unconstrained abiotic chemistry to the biochemistry with systematical complexity ” in vol. 439 on nature(2).
    Where do RNA from ?RNA is consisted of ribose,basic group and Phosphoric acid perssad but RNA is not formed if no water, only through by the medium of
    [H]+ and [OH]—OF water it can be formed .The water is not only important the physical environment in which life evolved but it is a important chemical medium that led from unconstrained abiotic chemistry to the biochemistry with systematical complexity.So we are only through by quantum biology ,we can scientific prove that the water is a origin of life .
    Explain the mystery of origin of life on quantum biology
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  32. #31 Re: Were do RNA from ? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    The father of RNA world hypothesis, Orgle said that“almost everything else about the origin of life remains obscure, Little is known in certain about neither the physical environment in which life evolved nor the detailed steps that led from unconstrained abiotic chemistry to the biochemistry with systematical complexity ” in vol. 439 on nature(2).
    So what? That means we don't know everything that happened yet. Of course we don't, it's an hypothesis not a theory. Gaps in either are not a reason to dismiss them. Contradictory evidence is required.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    Where do RNA from ?RNA is consisted of ribose,basic group and Phosphoric acid perssad but RNA is not formed if no water, only through by the medium of
    [H]+ and [OH]—OF water it can be formed .The water is not only important the physical environment in which life evolved but it is a important chemical medium that led from unconstrained abiotic chemistry to the biochemistry with systematical complexity.So we are only through by quantum biology ,we can scientific prove that the water is a origin of life .
    I'm not questioning the involvement of water- that's considered to be essential to most of our current ideas on abiogenesis. It's the "quantum" part that I see no need for. We can make nucleotides and amino acids in the lab without applying any elements of quantum theory, and we don't even have millions of years to get it right. We can even make self-replicating RNA. We still don't fully know what's going on, but it sure doesn't look to me like we're way off the mark. It doesn't look like we're going to need to introduce anything more exotic than organic chemistry into the model.

    Where do you see the need for such an unlikely addition as you suggest? Following Occam's Razor here, what is the justification in evidence for making the model more complicated rather than less?
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  33. #32 no water in your experiment,no self-replicating RNA. 
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    I don't known if no water in your experiment
    are you can make self-replicating RNA?
    The significance of water quantum biology character during the forming of life:
    Water molecule is composed of one oxygen and two hydrogen by covalent bond,the center of two hydrogen to the center of oxygen formed an obtuse angle about 104.50 ,because of oxygen electro-negativity is bigger(EN=3.61)than hydrogen‘s(EN=2.30),so the electron of hydrogen is not middle between hydrogen core and oxygen core but it is inclined to the center of oxygen ,result in the two proton of hydrogen are nearly uncovered which make water molecule up carried small positive electro- charge (one hydrogen carried δ+0.22positive electro-charge)by hydrogen end,but oxygen end carried small negative electro-charge(δ-0.44),which make water molecule up to a polar molecule.
    So the hydrogen end of water molecule may attract each other with ion or molecule which carried negative electro-charge to form hydrogen bond,but the oxygen end of water molecule may attract each other with ion or molecule which carried negative electro-charge to form hydrogen bond or other sort second bond,therefore water molecules may bind between it and it with a lot of soluble inorganic ion and polar organic molecules ,which make water to become the most mystical solvent。
    Hydrogen bond compared with covalent bond ,which is weakness and its intensity equal 1/20 covalent bond,because in water and other water solution
    Fig.5 sketch map of composition of water molecule and hydrogen bond 。red ball shows oxygen atom ,blue ball shows hydrogen atom。Symbol between oxygen of water molecule and hydrogen of another water molecule shows hydrogen bond。
    hydrogen bond is situated in balance between form,broken and again Form by the influence of other power,generally water present a below form:

    H2 O+ H2 O —— H3O+ + OH—

    [H3O+]ion and [OH—]ion which formed became a quantum biology base for water became the most
    good solvent on the earth and it became a importance chemical medium for forming of organic of life ,passing through form of [H3O+]ion and [OH—]ion water molecule take part into the forming of glucose etc small organic of life,which gave these small organic a character of water origin (carried H+ and OH—ion),this character of water origin make a lot of small organic simple body up into multi-gathering body pass through withdraw water reaction .
    Explain the mystery of origin of life on quantum biology
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  34. #33 Re: no water in your experiment,no self-replicating RNA. 
    Moderator Moderator TheBiologista's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    I don't known if no water in your experiment
    Pretty much every experiment in biology uses water-based media and buffers. I don't know much about the work done by the biochemists who study abiogenesis, but I'd guess that water would be the main medium and solvent they use also. It is typically assumed that abiogenesis required water, so it's a component of most investigations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    are you can make self-replicating RNA?
    I can't, but Gerald Joyce's group at Scripps can:

    Lincoln, T.A. & Joyce, G.F. (2009) Science Vol. 323. no. 5918, pp. 1229

    Quote Originally Posted by Guohou Jiang
    The significance of water quantum biology character during the forming of life:
    Water molecule is composed of one oxygen and two hydrogen by covalent bond,the center of two hydrogen to the center of oxygen formed an obtuse angle about 104.50 ,because of oxygen electro-negativity is bigger(EN=3.61)than hydrogen‘s(EN=2.30),so the electron of hydrogen is not middle between hydrogen core and oxygen core but it is inclined to the center of oxygen ,result in the two proton of hydrogen are nearly uncovered which make water molecule up carried small positive electro- charge (one hydrogen carried δ+0.22positive electro-charge)by hydrogen end,but oxygen end carried small negative electro-charge(δ-0.44),which make water molecule up to a polar molecule.
    So the hydrogen end of water molecule may attract each other with ion or molecule which carried negative electro-charge to form hydrogen bond,but the oxygen end of water molecule may attract each other with ion or molecule which carried negative electro-charge to form hydrogen bond or other sort second bond,therefore water molecules may bind between it and it with a lot of soluble inorganic ion and polar organic molecules ,which make water to become the most mystical solvent。
    Hydrogen bond compared with covalent bond ,which is weakness and its intensity equal 1/20 covalent bond,because in water and other water solution
    Fig.5 sketch map of composition of water molecule and hydrogen bond 。red ball shows oxygen atom ,blue ball shows hydrogen atom。Symbol between oxygen of water molecule and hydrogen of another water molecule shows hydrogen bond。
    hydrogen bond is situated in balance between form,broken and again Form by the influence of other power,generally water present a below form:

    H2 O+ H2 O —— H3O+ + OH—

    [H3O+]ion and [OH—]ion which formed became a quantum biology base for water became the most
    good solvent on the earth and it became a importance chemical medium for forming of organic of life ,passing through form of [H3O+]ion and [OH—]ion water molecule take part into the forming of glucose etc small organic of life,which gave these small organic a character of water origin (carried H+ and OH—ion),this character of water origin make a lot of small organic simple body up into multi-gathering body pass through withdraw water reaction .
    Nobody would dispute that the properties of water and its status as a polar solvent make it very important to life, and that other properties are valuable too- but I'm just not seeing what point you're trying to make regarding quantum theory... None of what you've described above requires quantum theory, and perhaps more importantly, none of it is particularly novel though I suspect you're putting undue focus on water itself. Perhaps I am simply not understanding you.
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  35. #34 How to prove scientific“water is the fountainhead of lif&quo 
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    "Nobody would dispute that the properties of water and its status as a polar solvent make it very important to life, and that other properties are valuable too- but I'm just not seeing what point you're trying to make regarding quantum theory... None of what you've described above requires quantum theory, and perhaps more importantly, none of it is particularly novel though I suspect you're putting undue focus on water itself. Perhaps I am simply not understanding you."
    How to prove scientific“water is the fountainhead of life"
    The present science evidence shows to interpret the origin of life correctly from fountainhead we must prove that that is“water is the fountainhead of life”。 In the quantum biology point of view, we find-out there is an objectivity and necessity that it is water that had formed first, and then the organic substances of life formed on the earth before the life became to evolve on the earth during the colliding of the atom or ion of elements each other in which heat movement,and because the quantum biologic characteristics of water,it had formed first which create a very necessary physical and chemical condition for the formed of life。The discover makes up a substantial bases for explanation proper of the origin of life。
    Explain the mystery of origin of life on quantum biology
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