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Thread: Black holes vs Dark stars

  1. #1 Black holes vs Dark stars 
    gc
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    This is an idea I came up with, although I don't think I'm the first to come up with this idea.

    Black holes don't exist. Instead what we call black holes are actually dark stars.
    What is the difference between a black hole and a dark star? Nothing can escape from a black hole because the escape velocity is greater than the speed of light. The escape velocity from a dark star is very close to (but not quite) the speed of light, so light can in principle still escape.
    Why don't black holes form? Time runs slower in a stronger gravitational field compared to a weaker gravitational field. In a black hole, time would stand still. Therefore, as the star collapses, time runs slower and slower until the star is just slightly larger than the Schwarzschild radius at which point time is nearly at a standstill. The closer you get to a black hole, the longer it takes, so it never quite reaches a black hole.
    Conventional wisdom would argue that from the frame of the black hole, everything runs normally. I believe this is wrong. For a black hole to form, an infinite amount of time would have to pass outside of the black hole (such as here on earth), but since an infinite amount of time has not and can not ever pass, a black hole can never form. This would solve the problem of information loss in a black hole.
    P.S. Einstein, the brains behind general relativity that predicts black holes, never believed in black holes.


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  3. #2 Re: Black holes vs Dark stars 
    Reptile Dysfunction drowsy turtle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gc
    Why don't black holes form? Time runs slower in a stronger gravitational field compared to a weaker gravitational field. In a black hole, time would stand still.
    No, it wouldn't. Time may seem to approach stationary when observed from far away, but will never quite stop, however great the gravitational field.

    Quote Originally Posted by gc
    Conventional wisdom would argue that from the frame of the black hole, everything runs normally. I believe this is wrong. For a black hole to form, an infinite amount of time would have to pass outside of the black hole (such as here on earth), but since an infinite amount of time has not and can not ever pass, a black hole can never form.
    Only if the black hole has infinite mass, which it does not.


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  4. #3 Re: Black holes vs Dark stars 
    gc
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    Quote Originally Posted by drowsy turtle
    No, it wouldn't. Time may seem to approach stationary when observed from far away, but will never quite stop, however great the gravitational field.
    If my math is correct (link) when the radius is less than the Schwarzschild radius, time would stand still. Where am I going wrong?
    Only if the black hole has infinite mass, which it does not.
    Could you elaborate on this?
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  5. #4  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    If my math is correct (link) when the radius is less than the Schwarzschild radius, time would stand still. Where am I going wrong?
    I think you are doing the calculations (assuming they are correct of course, which I wouldn't be able to judge) from an outside perspective, i.e. from an external vantage point. From this perspective it would indeed seem as if an object would never quite reach an event horizon. But from the perspective of the matter involved you would cross the event horizon without any fuss. Time measurement is always relative to something else, but you own time would pass by normally from your own perspective. Therefore nothing would impede you from going towards a black hole or for a star to stop contracting before contracting below the Schwarzschild radius. AFAIK
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  6. #5  
    gc
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    I think you are doing the calculations (assuming they are correct of course, which I wouldn't be able to judge) from an outside perspective, i.e. from an external vantage point. From this perspective it would indeed seem as if an object would never quite reach an event horizon. But from the perspective of the matter involved you would cross the event horizon without any fuss. Time measurement is always relative to something else, but you own time would pass by normally from your own perspective. Therefore nothing would impede you from going towards a black hole or for a star to stop contracting before contracting below the Schwarzschild radius. AFAIK
    I know that this is the conventional wisdom, however my whole argument is that this way of thinking about it is wrong.
    Picture yourself inside a black hole looking back at earth, and imagine one second passing by. By the time one second passes inside the black hole, you would have to see an infinite amount of time pass here on earth. But we know that an infinite amount of time has not and can not ever pass. Therefore, one second can not pass inside a black hole. In fact, if my argument is correct a black hole could not even form in the first place.
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  7. #6  
    gc
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    One more thing...

    If black holes are actually just dark stars, that would explain how they could still emit gravitons (gravitons could escape from a dark star, but not from a black hole). I've heard some explanations as to why gravitons wouldn't need to escape from a black hole, but none of them sound convincing.
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  8. #7  
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    What if the opposite is happening? What if time is being accelerated, and the gravitons are really light particles traveling faster than we can perceive them?
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  9. #8  
    gc
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    Quote Originally Posted by bill3969
    What if the opposite is happening? What if time is being accelerated, and the gravitons are really light particles traveling faster than we can perceive them?
    That time slows down in a gravitational field (relative to an outside observer) has been confirmed by experiment.
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