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Thread: Relativity fails with Magnetic Force

  1. #1 Relativity fails with Magnetic Force 
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    Here is presented a problem with the Magnetic Force where Relativity Theory fails:
    http://www.geocities.com/anewlightin...etic_Force.htm
    A possible experiment is pointed out but the theoretical inconsistence is enough.


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  3. #2  
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    With thanks to "przyk" at SCI Forums I have realized that I was wrong in one point: actually the relativistic prediction do agree with the classical prediction. The relativistic electrodynamics with lenght and charge contraction with Lorentz Transform actually predict changing Electric and Magnetic Fields so that the the Force obtained is the same as in Classical Physics.
    But the inconsistence rises then from the other point of view: Relativity states there are no privileged frames of reference and so in the presented problem there's a change in the real movement of the electron just because a change in the frame of observation (the observer)!
    This is unsustainable...
    What do Relativity defenders would argue now?


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  4. #3  
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    The problem have been re-written in the site.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    I will copy here what I have posted at SCI Forums what I think clarifies the thing better:

    The point is that a change in the reference frame (the observer) cannot alter the behavior of the system ot phenomenon being analyzed. In other words the reality of the system/phenomenon cannot be changed and that is what is happening in the presented problem. By reality I mean all the characteristics and properties of the system/phenomenon itself.
    If you change the reference frame you would get different expressions for many things as velocity, acceleration, the Force, etc but for example, as in our case, the relatrive movement between the electron and the beam of must be the same, but if you observe carefully the relativistic transformation of the frames you will find that they determine two different movements, two different phenomenons. This cannot happen.

    In other words, in the problem the relativistic prediction is the same as the classical prediction, fine, but the classical prediction is that the isolated electron will behave differently in the two presented cases of the problem. Now, Classical Physics determines two different behaviors because it considers that if a new absolute velocity is given to the isolated electron and the beam then this actually is a new phenomenon, a new system whith justified different behavior.
    Now how Relativity consider and justify the two cases? The relative initial velocity of the two cases is the same so they would represent the same phenomenon, the same system for Relativity, then, how two different behaviors (to match with the classical prediction) are justified? Remember that just a change in the freference frame have been done. Then how?
    I don't understand. I see a big problem here.
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  6. #5  
    Time Lord
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    You're right. The point is that the observer sees a different thing happening, not that a different thing actually is happening.

    Since the observer sees both a different distance, and a different passage of time, both, they might observe the electrons to be moving at different speeds relative to each other, because they observe them to be crossing different distances at the same rate. (Or the same distance, at different rates, if their perception of time is different) ((Or both))
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  7. #6  
    Forum Bachelors Degree martillo's Avatar
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    You're right. The point is that the observer sees a different thing happening, not that a different thing actually is happening.
    Well, then in Relativity Theory an observer sees things that don't happen.
    Then Relativity Theory is a wrong Theory for the Physics of the Universe.
    In a right Physics Theory an observer must see what really happens.
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