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Thread: Before Big Bang

  1. #1 Before Big Bang 
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Although author gets Hawking’s gender wrong it’s still interesting. When Penrose talks people likely to listen.

    https://www.ampgoo.com/an-earlier-un...observed-today


    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  3. #2  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Although author gets Hawking’s gender wrong it’s still interesting. When Penrose talks people likely to listen.

    https://www.ampgoo.com/an-earlier-un...observed-today
    Sounds a nice idea ,. I wonder if any consequences might flow if it was shown to be correct.

    seem to remember a BBC 4 documentary where they were looking for patterns or regions in the Cosmic Microwave Background as evidence of a parallel universe colliding with ours. (Some Italian scientist thought she might be seeing something)


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Although author gets Hawking’s gender wrong it’s still interesting. When Penrose talks people likely to listen.

    https://www.ampgoo.com/an-earlier-un...observed-today
    Sounds a nice idea ,. I wonder if any consequences might flow if it was shown to be correct.

    seem to remember a BBC 4 documentary where they were looking for patterns or regions in the Cosmic Microwave Background as evidence of a parallel universe colliding with ours. (Some Italian scientist thought she might be seeing something)
    Penrose is great.... evidence when substantiated is a scientist’s best friend. Would be fantastic if he’s right. Universe would be a lot older I suspect, maybe much older. If it happened once then who’s to say it doesn’t repeat? I’m not qualified to say.

    Is this the gal you’re on about?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Although author gets Hawking’s gender wrong it’s still interesting. When Penrose talks people likely to listen.

    https://www.ampgoo.com/an-earlier-un...observed-today
    Sounds a nice idea ,. I wonder if any consequences might flow if it was shown to be correct.

    seem to remember a BBC 4 documentary where they were looking for patterns or regions in the Cosmic Microwave Background as evidence of a parallel universe colliding with ours. (Some Italian scientist thought she might be seeing something)
    Penrose is great.... evidence when substantiated is a scientist’s best friend. Would be fantastic if he’s right. Universe would be a lot older I suspect, maybe much older. If it happened once then who’s to say it doesn’t repeat? I’m not qualified to say.

    Is this the gal you’re on about?
    Can't track down the exact documentary I saw her in ,but yes it does seem to be her . Not Italian as I thought.

    There are other videos with her in it ,though

    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...rsini-Houghton

    I am taking away from Penrose's idea that there would be no time limit at all to the universe(s) at all worth considering (unless it could be shown that the chain of creation was somehow corrupted from one iteration to the other.)
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  6. #5  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Maybe it isn’t but his idea sounds so simple, more so than some of the other stuff I’ve read. Maybe that’s how relatively easy it really is.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  7. #6  
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    Well I have heard the comment that the singularity in the Black Hole is not the same as the (singularity around the time of) Big Bang.

    But who knows,maybe there is a close relationship.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Well I have heard the comment that the singularity in the Black Hole is not the same as the (singularity around the time of) Big Bang.

    But who knows,maybe there is a close relationship.
    Does it beg the question: What came first, space or matter?

    Now I'm just thinking as a layman, if there are BH's all over the place at some point in time and one pops, it would be obvious that the surviving BH's didn't contain space or at least all of the space since they're still in space..... I assume.. Does that make sense?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Well I have heard the comment that the singularity in the Black Hole is not the same as the (singularity around the time of) Big Bang.

    But who knows,maybe there is a close relationship.
    Does it beg the question: What came first, space or matter?

    Now I'm just thinking as a layman, if there are BH's all over the place at some point in time and one pops, it would be obvious that the surviving BH's didn't contain space or at least all of the space since they're still in space..... I assume.. Does that make sense?
    What do you mean by "pops"?

    I thought they just radiated away at an excruciatingly slow rate

    Is Penrose saying they somehow implode?

    I think it was Einstein who said something to the effect that matter was "spatially extended"

    It made me wonder whether space and matter were two sides of the same coin but I think I may have been told that didn't work.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Well I have heard the comment that the singularity in the Black Hole is not the same as the (singularity around the time of) Big Bang.

    But who knows,maybe there is a close relationship.
    Does it beg the question: What came first, space or matter?

    Now I'm just thinking as a layman, if there are BH's all over the place at some point in time and one pops, it would be obvious that the surviving BH's didn't contain space or at least all of the space since they're still in space..... I assume.. Does that make sense?
    What do you mean by "pops"?

    I thought they just radiated away at an excruciatingly slow rate

    Is Penrose saying they somehow implode?
    I can’t go around here sounding like I know what I’m talking about. If they radiate away where does the matter go, does it change form?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  11. #10  
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    I am not sure what the "contents" of a Black Hole actually is.

    I think the radiation is in the form of Hawking radiation .

    I am not quite clear how that works .... something to do with a pair of particles one of which escapes and the other is recaptured.

    Sorry I can't be more informative.
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  12. #11  
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    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  13. #12  
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    So Penrose says he can see these "Hawking ponts" but the man in the article says they aren't there.

    Seems the crux of the matter.No evidence = no theory.

    Are we waiting for better telescopes?
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  14. #13  
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    Have I got this right?....Penrose says these points are older than the universe itself because it would take aeons for a BH to begin radiating.

    However not all scientists agree Hawking radiation exists? Maybe that’s the crux.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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  15. #14  
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    I thought Hawking radiation was accepted as mainstream science but that to detect these remnants of Black holes ( that would have to be older than the universe) would be evidence that Hawking radiation did in fact exist.

    Penrose claims there is evidence that these pre Universe Black Holes exist based on observations that match what he is looking for.

    The other man in the trending article claims this is incorrect and that they have been telling Penrose this for the past 10 years or more.

    Btw I don't think it is this aspect of Penrose's work that gained him the Nobel Prize
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