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View Poll Results: What should happen to ISIS?

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  • Wipe out ISIS

    5 50.00%
  • Contain ISIS

    1 10.00%
  • It's their problem not ours.

    2 20.00%
  • Negotiate a political settlement.

    3 30.00%
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Thread: Are there any ISIS supporters on the forum?

  1. #1 Are there any ISIS supporters on the forum? 
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    Would it be better to have a political solution to the ISIS situation rather than trying to wipe them out?


     

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  3. #2  
    Forum Masters Degree MrMojo1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Would it be better to have a political solution to the ISIS situation rather than trying to wipe them out?
    No. When a group takes the position of either join us or be beheaded, then the you have no choice but to wipe them out. This excludes those who are pacifists. A true pacifists accepts that it is only a matter of time before the thug kills him/her.


     

  4. #3  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Short sighted and ultimately doomed to failure. Focus the attack on the causes of IS, not IS.
     

  5. #4  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
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    "You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea."
    If you want to win with bullets then you will probably need to kill all of them - including their wives and children.
    If you want to win without bullets, then you need to subvert the idea.

    p.s.
    I don't like any of the poll options.
    I would choose something more like: "Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries."
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I would choose something more like: "Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries."
    Nice idea, I spent two tours in Afghanistan, it will never happen. The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
     

  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Would it be better to have a political solution to the ISIS situation rather than trying to wipe them out?
    There isn't a "political solution" when you deal with barbarians bent on wiping out everybody that does not submit to their ideology. The only solution is to wipe out the barbarians.
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Wipe out the cause of the problem, which is religion, then you'll have a chance of settling the personal differences between people. If this isn't done conflicts will never stop until the end of time.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
     

  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Wipe out the cause of the problem, which is religion, then you'll have a chance of settling the personal differences between people. If this isn't done conflicts will never stop until the end of time.
    I would agree if I didn't know first hand that you can't wipe out islam. People moved away from Christianity, Judaism, Budhism by the millions. Not so with islam. The islam will not rest until they subjugate all others, atheists included. This is what their "holy book" orders them to do.
     

  10. #9  
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    This is going to sound silly, but all roads lead to Freud anyway

    I once worked with an Iranian couple that immigrated to Canada. Nice people. His wife eventually left him, however, and from what I could gather, it was cause the guy couldn't stop watching porn on the internet. ISIS can be subverted by unblocked internet access.
     

  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer w/Straw View Post
    This is going to sound silly, but all roads lead to Freud anyway

    I once worked with an Iranian couple that immigrated to Canada. Nice people. His wife eventually left him, however, and from what I could gather, it was cause the guy couldn't stop watching porn on the internet. ISIS can be subverted by unblocked internet access.
    They already do watch porn, a LOT of it. It isn't helping.
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Education is the only way to let people understand what the truth is about anything if they are educated correctly.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Education is the only way to let people understand what the truth is about anything if they are educated correctly.
    I agree with you, so why isn't education working ? We went into Afghanistan, we pushed taliban out, as soon as we left, taliban was right back in. Nothing changed.
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Were children allowed to go to school or were they kept at home? The government must be the ones to enforce compliance to the educational needs and ensure safety to the children as well. If they don't do that then there's nothing going to change.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
     

  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Were children allowed to go to school or were they kept at home? The government must be the ones to enforce compliance to the educational needs and ensure safety to the children as well. If they don't do that then there's nothing going to change.
    The children were allowed to go to school. The parents kept the girls home. Nothing changed , with or without the taliban.
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    It is to bad that the Afghanistan government can't even protect their own citizens and persuade them to let all children attend school providing military help in doing so. If the citizens won't allow that then there isn't much that will ever change there. America spent billions to help Afghanistan and lost many good military personnel over the past 10 years and , as I stated over 10 years ago, nothing will change and everything will return to the way it was before America stepped in and tried to be of help.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
     

  17. #16  
    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    I disagree, and I do so quite categorically. You are in fact falling into the trap that these extremists have set for us by thinking the above.

    I lived and worked as an expat in Malaysia for two years; while officially a rather strict Islamic country, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians and adherents of various forms of traditional spirituality and animalism all live together peacefully there. Of course there are occasional arguments and disagreements, but these never escalate into anything remotely like what ISIS does. During Ramadan, all non-Muslims refrain from eating in public during daylight hours; at Christmas, Christian traditions are respected by everyone; everyone celebrates Diwali, just as they celebrate Visakah Puja, and Gawai Dayak. People each have their beliefs, but they respect and tolerate all other beliefs too.

    Movements like ISIS, the Taliban, Boko Haram, al Shabaab etc etc are fundamentally cultural and political in nature - they misuse the name of Islam to push their very own political and militaristic agendas. They use religion as a shield to hide behind, as a means to control their subordinates, and above all as a way to morally justify actions which cannot otherwise be justified in any way, shape or form. It is ultimately all about power, with religion being a thinly veiled attempt at justifying their actions. We have seen this throughout history, and across all major religions, it is not a new phenomenon.

    There is of course no doubt in my mind that many in these groups genuinely believe that what they are doing is the will of Allah, that they are serving and protecting their god in the best way they can - in that they are no different than extremists of any other religion. It is how they are brought up, what they are told by their leaders, be they Imams or otherwise. However, generalising this and saying that all Muslims live only to wipe out the Western world and kill all infidels is like saying that the Christian armies of the crusades ( and the atrocities they committed in the name of Christ ) are what Christianity is all about; or that Bhikku Wirathu and his 969 Movement is what Buddhism is about; it is simply not true. I have many friends, co-workers and even family members who are Muslims, and never once has any of them advocated or supported any act of violence that is being perpetrated in the name of Islam. A true Muslim is just as disgusted by people being beheaded in front of camera in the name of Allah, as a true Christian is disgusted by unmarried Irish "fallen girls" being locked away in "Mother and Baby Homes" and forcibly separated from their children in the name of "Christian morality" ( to give just these two examples ). Too often do people push their political and cultural agendas in the name of religion.

    I think it is crucially important to be able to see through movements like ISIS, and understand their true agendas, rather than make sweeping generalisations that achieve nothing but further aggravate the situation. The war is with ISIS, the Taliban, al-Shabaab, Boko Haram etc etc, and not Islam or the hundreds of millions of Muslims who just want to live their lives in peace and relative comfort - they are not the same thing, even though that is what the leaders of those groups would like us to believe. If we fall for this and develop a hatred for Islam as opposed to for ISIS, then we are only playing into their hands.

    Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries.
    Precisely.
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Freshman jjmckane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post

    They already do watch porn, a LOT of it. It isn't helping.
    In Iraq, the local enforcers of religious dogma were reported to wacking the soles of the porn viewer's feet. So was in a major magazine a few years ago, with lots of 'offenders'. And the 9/11 bombers celebrated their last night by going out and seeing strippers at a night club. in 'Stolen Lives', it was reported (by the imprisoned former charge of the royal family) that her brother, as all wealthy young men do, play around in their young teens with prostitutes. Maybe all of this has something the 57 varieties of virgins they are contracted to get. Ok, it is 72, but Heinz 57 sounds so much better with all the blood being spilled in becoming a martyr/satyr. And it is not specified if they are of which sex or species, so getting a pre-deceased affidavit from the imam clarifying it would be wise via your religious lawyer, paid with buddhist hell banknotes no doubt.

    So all you ISIS supporters in this forum who are marking time debating irreligious multitudes of posters (to get their back up before a terrorist jihad martyrdom, it is supposed), watch the dotted line on your policy deed with god.

    For those multitudes of irreligious wanting to know something of Iran or to a degree any muslim group, read and look at the pictures of the well done novel comic "Persepolis". Really a coming of age book, it deals with the issue of sex in an Islamic society at the level of the average western Joe/Jane. My son, who had no knowledge of the cultures, loved it. As far as I can tell, enough Muslims are normally orgasmic at dying and being surrounded by supposed to be nubile virgins that there has always been a wide assortment willing to off a heretic or infidel. The only thing that works is when infighting is so strong that they grumble and are usually weary of involvement like that after their own kind wears down the spirits. This happened circa 1900, also about 900 (the so called 'green grocers' trashed Mecca Qarmatians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ),as well as other low periods. As Napoleon said of China, "A slumbering dragon. Let them sleep".

    Persepolis (comics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     

  19. #18  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I would choose something more like: "Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries."
    Nice idea, I spent two tours in Afghanistan, it will never happen. The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    There are 1.6 billion muslims.
    I don't see the military strength which that number of people would produce.

    But sure, we can kill the 1,600,000,000 muslims - that should pretty much guarantee that we kill the 100,000 ISIS members.
    And it wouldn't be the most foul and disgusting genocide since WWII. Honest.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

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    Forum Freshman precious siraj's Avatar
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    I am from Pakistan, and Muslim. Our biggest problem at this time is TTP (Tahreek talibaan i Pakistan). They will be soon contained by our army. Todays news (Pakistani Taliban declare allegiance to IS militants).
    As a normal muslim I am really worried. Is CIA behind all this to gain dirty political gains like Al Qaida and Osama?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by precious siraj View Post
    I am from Pakistan, and Muslim. Our biggest problem at this time is TTP (Tahreek talibaan i Pakistan). They will be soon contained by our army. Todays news (Pakistani Taliban declare allegiance to IS militants).
    As a normal muslim I am really worried. Is CIA behind all this to gain dirty political gains like Al Qaida and Osama?
    The paranoia of the Muslim world to the USA astounds me. ISIS will line you all up and shoot you and yet someone will still work out it was done by the CIA. What is wrong with you guys? I believe it is because you all partly support ISIS for they call themselves "Muslims". I heard two guys (at work) who are absolute atheists say they'd join ISIS just to save their lives. That makes them potential murderers doesn't it. They are hardly religious.
     

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    I was looking for a quote that went something like this 'The internet is only used for two things; Looking at porn and complaining about stuff.

    More seriously, I do think the internet itself can subvert ideologies can and change change cultures.

    A B. F. Skinner quote "(If you're old) don't try to change yourself, change your environment" That is exactly what the Iranian couple did. They moved from Iran to Canada. I guess if you can't change your environment, bringing the World Wide Web to you doorstep could be the next best thing.
     

  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I would choose something more like: "Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries."
    Nice idea, I spent two tours in Afghanistan, it will never happen. The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    There are 1.6 billion muslims.
    I don't see the military strength which that number of people would produce.

    But sure, we can kill the 1,600,000,000 muslims - that should pretty much guarantee that we kill the 100,000 ISIS members.
    And it wouldn't be the most foul and disgusting genocide since WWII. Honest.
    So you are in favour of a political solution?? Do they talk politics?? There was those that back them financially, money talks.
    What I find so scary about the current situation is all the crossed over allegiances. One country won't help for this reason but would for another. Turkey is a problem in my view. If it helps in the war it will want to dominate the Kurds, the only people brave enough to stand up to ISIS.
    I want the Kurds to have a country of their own, so I am rooting for them. So in some way I like the idea Iraq has split up into 3 sections but ISIS isn't going to stop at the borders.
     

  24. #23  
    Samurai of Logic Falconer360's Avatar
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    I feel like some of the people on this thread think that Afghanistan and other Islamic countries have always been warring and in the backwards situation that they are today. But most of them were a lot more civilized until the 1990s.

    A decent article with pictures of different times in Afghanistan:
    It didn’t always suck to be a woman in Afghanistan | Dangerous Minds
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
    - Yagyu Munenori

    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    I disagree, and I do so quite categorically. You are in fact falling into the trap that these extremists have set for us by thinking the above.

    I lived and worked as an expat in Malaysia for two years; while officially a rather strict Islamic country, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians and adherents of various forms of traditional spirituality and animalism all live together peacefully there. Of course there are occasional arguments and disagreements, but these never escalate into anything remotely like what ISIS does. During Ramadan, all non-Muslims refrain from eating in public during daylight hours; at Christmas, Christian traditions are respected by everyone; everyone celebrates Diwali, just as they celebrate Visakah Puja, and Gawai Dayak. People each have their beliefs, but they respect and tolerate all other beliefs too.
    Great,

    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    Last edited by Howard Roark; October 4th, 2014 at 04:50 PM.
     

  26. #25  
    Forum Professor scoobydoo1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    I lived and worked as an expat in Malaysia for two years; while officially a rather strict Islamic country, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians and adherents of various forms of traditional spirituality and animalism all live together peacefully there. Of course there are occasional arguments and disagreements, but these never escalate into anything remotely like what ISIS does. During Ramadan, all non-Muslims refrain from eating in public during daylight hours; at Christmas, Christian traditions are respected by everyone; everyone celebrates Diwali, just as they celebrate Visakah Puja, and Gawai Dayak. People each have their beliefs, but they respect and tolerate all other beliefs too.
    I have similar experience having lived in Singapore and have travelled to more than a handful of countries within the region that have a substantial muslim population for over forty years - having far more exposure than many here can say to possess.
     

  27. #26  
    Samurai of Logic Falconer360's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    I disagree, and I do so quite categorically. You are in fact falling into the trap that these extremists have set for us by thinking the above.

    I lived and worked as an expat in Malaysia for two years; while officially a rather strict Islamic country, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians and adherents of various forms of traditional spirituality and animalism all live together peacefully there. Of course there are occasional arguments and disagreements, but these never escalate into anything remotely like what ISIS does. During Ramadan, all non-Muslims refrain from eating in public during daylight hours; at Christmas, Christian traditions are respected by everyone; everyone celebrates Diwali, just as they celebrate Visakah Puja, and Gawai Dayak. People each have their beliefs, but they respect and tolerate all other beliefs too.
    Great,

    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    I'm sorry that you have experienced such horrific events in your life. However, saying that all Muslims are the same as their extremists is the same as saying that all Christians are like the KKK or the Westboro Baptist Church. Yes I know that virtually every Christian sect has denounced them, however, they still consider themselves Christians. So my point is valid.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
    - Yagyu Munenori

    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
     

  28. #27  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    A policeman was shot in the UK by a "peaceful" teenager that the policeman was protecting from criminals.
    Obviously, they will be arresting anyone who is British.

    Ok - you hate them. We get that.
    But don't expect your limited experience of muslims (and yes, your experience is very limited) to convince us that most/all muslims are killers-in-waiting.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
     

  29. #28  
    1 Ugly MoFo warthog213's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious siraj View Post
    I am from Pakistan, and Muslim. Our biggest problem at this time is TTP (Tahreek talibaan i Pakistan). They will be soon contained by our army. Todays news (Pakistani Taliban declare allegiance to IS militants).
    As a normal muslim I am really worried. Is CIA behind all this to gain dirty political gains like Al Qaida and Osama?

    If it is let me assure you it's not my peoples doing, but rather the doings of rich person seeking something for their own gain.... You can read for yourself in the news that rich literally get away with murder here both directly and indirectly.... The legal system here is like getting lost in the ocean with no boat, paddles or life vest.... Afghanistan, poppy is widely used here in the medical field.... Iraq, oil is used world wide and is a highly valued commodity.... Our media here "which is owned by the rich" hardly ever reports on daily events which happen in these places, which I feel is a media blackout "meaning they don't want us to see the things which we have in common and keep us at war with these peoples which in turn says they are guilty of something....
    I could have been very rich long ago had the taste of dishonesty felt good in my mouth....
    Here is the truth about what people are thinking here because of the actions of Isis and the taliban and so fourth.... They portray Islam as the religion of peace then flash all the violence these radical factions are creating all while knowing that christianity is no better which has been proven over the centuries....
    A Muslim man which I met said that 93% of muslims do not have these radical beliefs in the Quran like those radicals believe, and knowing that humans have some sense about them I am more to believe his claim over others....
    The facts are that more people have died due to different beliefs in religion than any other know disease or disaster.... Which most had nothing to do with religion but had more to do with money and power.... Here and everywhere else among the christian world they let have our little weekly paychecks and vote which gives us a taste of that money and power that have in masses which in turn blinds us as we deal with our daily lives....
    Personally I have no problems with anyone anywhere in the world who's hands aren't stained by blood....
    (warthog) an ugly little animal in Africa that is hunted, killed and eaten by lions.

    Sorry i'm no scientist so don't expect me to use those terms which scientist use
    to explain things.... I am only an observer of things....

    Every dream i've dreamed isn't the life I live in....
     

  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    A policeman was shot in the UK by a "peaceful" teenager that the policeman was protecting from criminals.
    Obviously, they will be arresting anyone who is British.
    Well, you are starting to experience it as well, the British muslims are the most vicious ISIS "fighters". (more like abject cowards).

    Ok - you hate them. We get that.
    But don't expect your limited experience of muslims (and yes, your experience is very limited) to convince us that most/all muslims are killers-in-waiting.
    Three years in Afghanistan is not "limited experience". It is more experience than any of you have, baring the muslims posting. And, please don't tell me that what I experienced was an "isolated incident". I lived it every day, for 3 years. It is easy to be open minded from thousands of miles away.
    Last edited by Howard Roark; October 4th, 2014 at 06:25 PM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    A policeman was shot in the UK by a "peaceful" teenager that the policeman was protecting from criminals.
    Obviously, they will be arresting anyone who is British.
    Well, you are starting to experience it as well, the British muslims are the most vicious ISIS "fighters". (more like abject cowards).
    Erm...no.
    What made you think the teenager was muslim?
    He was a white christian*.

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Ok - you hate them. We get that.
    But don't expect your limited experience of muslims (and yes, your experience is very limited) to convince us that most/all muslims are killers-in-waiting.
    Three years in Afghanistan is not "limited experience". It is more experience than any of you have, baring the muslims posting. And, please don't tell me that what I experienced was an "isolated incident". I lived it every day, for 3 years. It is easy to be open minded from thousands of miles away.
    Three years in Afghanistan is a minute amount of experience of muslims.
    It is so tiny as to be insignificant.
    Take the tiniest thing you can imagine and then cut it in half: that's how much experience of muslims you have.

    But, if you like, you can do the maths yourself.
    Take the number of muslims you have encountered and divide it by 1.6 billion.
    What is the number you get?

    * Probably CofE - not a serious religion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    A policeman was shot in the UK by a "peaceful" teenager that the policeman was protecting from criminals.
    Obviously, they will be arresting anyone who is British.
    Well, you are starting to experience it as well, the British muslims are the most vicious ISIS "fighters". (more like abject cowards).

    Ok - you hate them. We get that.
    But don't expect your limited experience of muslims (and yes, your experience is very limited) to convince us that most/all muslims are killers-in-waiting.
    Three years in Afghanistan is not "limited experience". It is more experience than any of you have, baring the muslims posting. And, please don't tell me that what I experienced was an "isolated incident". I lived it every day, for 3 years. It is easy to be open minded from thousands of miles away.
    You cannot judge an entire group by one sect. Making generalizations just makes an ass out of the person making them. Assuming that all Muslims are bloodthirsty murderers is like assuming that all Republicans are gun loving bible thumping Rednecks or that every liberal is a tree hugging bleeding heart. You are generalizing 1.6 billion Muslims. That is an incredibly large generalization. You are making a generalization that includes approximately 22% of the worlds population.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    A policeman was shot in the UK by a "peaceful" teenager that the policeman was protecting from criminals.
    Obviously, they will be arresting anyone who is British.
    Well, you are starting to experience it as well, the British muslims are the most vicious ISIS "fighters". (more like abject cowards).
    Erm...no.
    What made you think the teenager was muslim?
    He was a white christian*.

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Ok - you hate them. We get that.
    But don't expect your limited experience of muslims (and yes, your experience is very limited) to convince us that most/all muslims are killers-in-waiting.
    Three years in Afghanistan is not "limited experience". It is more experience than any of you have, baring the muslims posting. And, please don't tell me that what I experienced was an "isolated incident". I lived it every day, for 3 years. It is easy to be open minded from thousands of miles away.
    Three years in Afghanistan is a minute amount of experience of muslims.
    It is so tiny as to be insignificant.
    Take the tiniest thing you can imagine and then cut it in half: that's how much experience of muslims you have.
    How much do you have?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    A policeman was shot in the UK by a "peaceful" teenager that the policeman was protecting from criminals.
    Obviously, they will be arresting anyone who is British.
    Well, you are starting to experience it as well, the British muslims are the most vicious ISIS "fighters". (more like abject cowards).

    Ok - you hate them. We get that.
    But don't expect your limited experience of muslims (and yes, your experience is very limited) to convince us that most/all muslims are killers-in-waiting.
    Three years in Afghanistan is not "limited experience". It is more experience than any of you have, baring the muslims posting. And, please don't tell me that what I experienced was an "isolated incident". I lived it every day, for 3 years. It is easy to be open minded from thousands of miles away.
    You cannot judge an entire group by one sect.
    I judge them by their actions.
     

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    Has anyone voted?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda
    What is the percentage of muslims that you have encountered:
    ( muslims you've met / 1,600,000,000 ) x 100
    I know - I'll work it out for you.

    I'll be really generous and say that you met 100,000* muslims in Afghanistan.

    ( 100,000 / 1,600,000,000 ) x 100 = 0.00625%

    So - you have only experienced 0.00625% of the muslim population, which is commonly referred to as f*** all.

    * Which is actually more people than we meet in our whole lifetime.
    Last edited by RedPanda; October 4th, 2014 at 07:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    A policeman was shot in the UK by a "peaceful" teenager that the policeman was protecting from criminals.
    Obviously, they will be arresting anyone who is British.
    Well, you are starting to experience it as well, the British muslims are the most vicious ISIS "fighters". (more like abject cowards).

    Ok - you hate them. We get that.
    But don't expect your limited experience of muslims (and yes, your experience is very limited) to convince us that most/all muslims are killers-in-waiting.
    Three years in Afghanistan is not "limited experience". It is more experience than any of you have, baring the muslims posting. And, please don't tell me that what I experienced was an "isolated incident". I lived it every day, for 3 years. It is easy to be open minded from thousands of miles away.
    You cannot judge an entire group by one sect.
    I judge them by their actions.
    Wow, Howard... Just wow. Way to ignore 90% of what I said. I was trying to be polite about this whole subject. You cannot logically judge 22% of the worlds population by the actions of a small fraction of them. Saying that all Americans are lazy sacks of shit is generalizing less people.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
    - Yagyu Munenori

    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for.
    In 2011, Anders Breivik, a right wing extremist, managed to get his hands on a Glock 17, a Ruger mini-14 and an assortment of ANFO bombs. He set off a bomb in Oslo, killing 8. Then he got on a ferry masquerading as a cop, went to an island where a summer youth camp was in progress, and proceeded to systematically slaughter 69 children. He was a "good Christian" who said he had attended a Martyr's Mass before he went on his rampage, which was intended to try to rid the country of the menace of Muslim immigration. In his writings he encouraged other people to become martyrs in a similar manner.

    As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20.
    Thank God you didn't have to explain to 69 families of children, instead of 1 family of a soldier.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for.
    In 2011, Anders Breivik, a right wing extremist, managed to get his hands on a Glock 17, a Ruger mini-14 and an assortment of ANFO bombs. He set off a bomb in Oslo, killing 8. Then he got on a ferry masquerading as a cop, went to an island where a summer youth camp was in progress, and proceeded to systematically slaughter 69 children. He was a "good Christian" who said he had attended a Martyr's Mass before he went on his rampage, which was intended to try to rid the country of the menace of Muslim immigration. In his writings he encouraged other people to become martyrs in a similar manner.

    As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20.
    Thank God you didn't have to explain to 69 families of children, instead of 1 family of a soldier.
    You guys continue along these lines and you will have the experience of the family of my soldier and the families of the recently decapitated civilians from both US and UK. Don't worry, the "religion of peace" will come knocking at your doors. In the meanwhile, keep whitewashing it, it may curry you some favor.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    A policeman was shot in the UK by a "peaceful" teenager that the policeman was protecting from criminals.
    Obviously, they will be arresting anyone who is British.
    Well, you are starting to experience it as well, the British muslims are the most vicious ISIS "fighters". (more like abject cowards).

    Ok - you hate them. We get that.
    But don't expect your limited experience of muslims (and yes, your experience is very limited) to convince us that most/all muslims are killers-in-waiting.
    Three years in Afghanistan is not "limited experience". It is more experience than any of you have, baring the muslims posting. And, please don't tell me that what I experienced was an "isolated incident". I lived it every day, for 3 years. It is easy to be open minded from thousands of miles away.
    You cannot judge an entire group by one sect.
    I judge them by their actions.
    Wow, Howard... Just wow. Way to ignore 90% of what I said. I was trying to be polite about this whole subject. You cannot logically judge 22% of the worlds population by the actions of a small fraction of them. Saying that all Americans are lazy sacks of shit is generalizing less people.
    That's the point, it is not a "small fraction". But keep whitewashing it, might curry you some favors when they come knocking at your door. Carry on, boys.
    Last edited by Howard Roark; October 4th, 2014 at 07:23 PM.
     

  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for.
    In 2011, Anders Breivik, a right wing extremist, managed to get his hands on a Glock 17, a Ruger mini-14 and an assortment of ANFO bombs. He set off a bomb in Oslo, killing 8. Then he got on a ferry masquerading as a cop, went to an island where a summer youth camp was in progress, and proceeded to systematically slaughter 69 children. He was a "good Christian" who said he had attended a Martyr's Mass before he went on his rampage, which was intended to try to rid the country of the menace of Muslim immigration. In his writings he encouraged other people to become martyrs in a similar manner.

    As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20.
    Thank God you didn't have to explain to 69 families of children, instead of 1 family of a soldier.
    You guys continue along these lines and you will have the experience of the family of my soldier and the families of the recently decapitated civilians from both US and UK. Don't worry, the "religion of peace" will come knocking at your doors. In the meanwhile, keep whitewashing it, it may curry you some favor.
    You seem to be having reading comprehension difficulty today. billvon was clearly illustrating that Christianity has just as much blood on it as Islam. I don't believe anyone here would deny that Islam has bloody history, but so does Christianity and pretty much every religion. To me all religions are undesirable.

    That's the point, it is not a "small fraction". But keep whitewashing it, might curry you some favors when they come knocking at your door.
    Not whitewashing it. If you had reading comprehension skills you would see that I'm just pointing out flaws in your argument.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    You guys continue along these lines and you will have the experience of the family of my soldier and the families of the recently decapitated civilians from both US and UK. Don't worry, the "religion of peace" will come knocking at your doors. In the meanwhile, keep whitewashing it, it may curry you some favor.
    Let's see....
    Hasty generalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Appeal to fear - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Appeal to accomplishment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Appeal to emotion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    You guys continue along these lines and you will have the experience of the family of my soldier and the families of the recently decapitated civilians from both US and UK. Don't worry, the "religion of peace" will come knocking at your doors. In the meanwhile, keep whitewashing it, it may curry you some favor.
    Let's see....
    Hasty generalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Appeal to fear - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Appeal to accomplishment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Appeal to emotion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    ^Like
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
    - Yagyu Munenori

    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Would it be better to have a political solution to the ISIS situation rather than trying to wipe them out?
    Perhaps realistically we need to do try to do both. On the one hand we need to find a workable political situation for the region that would allow us to stabilize Iraq & Syria, yet prevents IS, ISIS or ISIL, whatever you wish to call them, from having any sort of power base.

    Whilst there doesn't seem any appetite to send in Western troops to fight another war in the Middle East we just cannot sit back and ignore what these nut jobs are doing. The appalling scenes of beheading hostages and terrorising & driving out whole groups from their homes must surely not go unanswered. We need to send a message that we can't and won't tolerate such treatment of hostages, we also have to bare our share of responsibility for the situation and thus act responsibly to tackle the IS situation.

    Whilst certainly airstrikes won't ultimately be the key for a solution to the IS problem, they will at least in the short term degrade their military capacity and show them that we mean business. The long term solution to this problem though will surely require far more engagement with the real players in the region such as Syria, Turkey and Iran. We need to demonstrate that IS poses a real threat to them, it's their borders being encroached upon and that they need to be tackling this menace head on. It's their battle to fight and not ours, their troops on the ground not ours, because ultimately whilst the maps are being redrawn they are the ones in the region that will have to live with it.

    So yes we need to get some diplomacy going and start giving some real military assistance to the rest of the countries of the region to eliminate IS, we're already working to support Iraq and that's a start but we need to do more and regional diplomatic engagement is the logical way forward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post

    You guys continue along these lines and you will have the experience of the family of my soldier and the families of the recently decapitated civilians from both US and UK. Don't worry, the "religion of peace" will come knocking at your doors. In the meanwhile, keep whitewashing it, it may curry you some favor.
    ISIS have killed more Muslims than non-Muslims, by the thousands and thousands. They have killed a small handful of Westerners, but their predominant angst is against Shi'ite Muslims and other sects of Islam, such as the Kurds. To carry on as if they are at war with the West and want to subjugate 'us' is downright ridiculous.

    The way you are carrying on, with your clear bias, bigotry and labeling the whole billion or so people by the actions of a couple of thousand, is obscene and very offensive. Extremism exists in all religions and even amongst the non-religious. Rwanda, World War II, Cambodia, etc, should have taught you that lesson.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post

    You guys continue along these lines and you will have the experience of the family of my soldier and the families of the recently decapitated civilians from both US and UK. Don't worry, the "religion of peace" will come knocking at your doors. In the meanwhile, keep whitewashing it, it may curry you some favor.
    ISIS have killed more Muslims than non-Muslims, by the thousands and thousands. They have killed a small handful of Westerners, but their predominant angst is against Shi'ite Muslims and other sects of Islam, such as the Kurds. To carry on as if they are at war with the West and want to subjugate 'us' is downright ridiculous.

    The way you are carrying on, with your clear bias, bigotry and labeling the whole billion or so people by the actions of a couple of thousand, is obscene and very offensive. Extremism exists in all religions and even amongst the non-religious. Rwanda, World War II, Cambodia, etc, should have taught you that lesson.
    Of course, part of why they killed mostly Muslims is that there are mostly Muslims in their country. It is clear that they despise other sects of Islam and believe that Christians, Jews, etc. have absolutely no place in their region of the world. They kill anyone they disagree with. Who the hell would support them that wasn't insane?

    Regardless, I disagree that we need to destroy Islam. Shoot, my first adult girlfriend was a Muslim from the UAE and she's more liberal than I am. (I'm fairly liberal, too.) I've known a handful of Muslims. Mostly good people. My exes dad was a little crazy from what I hear, (he never knew that his daughter was dating a Jew. He probably would have blown a gasket.) But then again I dated a charismatic Christian once and her dad was crazy and hated me, too.

    It comes down to the individual, like anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    That's the point, it is not a "small fraction". But keep whitewashing it, might curry you some favors when they come knocking at your door. Carry on, boys.


    I appreciate your experiences, and I'm very sorry about what happened to that soldier under your command, but I've heard mixed messages. I was a JROTC kid for four years and all kinds of my friends joined the military. The worst things I've heard were about were in rural and isolated Afghanistan. What I've heard about the average citizen in city-dwelling Iraq isn't nearly so extreme. And if I told you some of the things that happened in rural Alaska, or rural West Virginia? Both places I've lived? It would make most people's skin crawl. People do crazy crap when there's no law.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I would choose something more like: "Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries."
    Nice idea, I spent two tours in Afghanistan, it will never happen. The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    There are 1.6 billion muslims.
    I don't see the military strength which that number of people would produce.

    But sure, we can kill the 1,600,000,000 muslims - that should pretty much guarantee that we kill the 100,000 ISIS members.
    And it wouldn't be the most foul and disgusting genocide since WWII. Honest.
    I did not say "kill 1.6 billion muslims" , I said "wipe out ISIS". That was exactly my vote. The majority of people has voted the same way but I am the only one who stands up against the apologists, It seems that you are the one who has the comprehension problems. Same observation goes for the rest of the people who have the same comprehension issue.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I would choose something more like: "Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries."
    Nice idea, I spent two tours in Afghanistan, it will never happen. The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    There are 1.6 billion muslims.
    I don't see the military strength which that number of people would produce.

    But sure, we can kill the 1,600,000,000 muslims - that should pretty much guarantee that we kill the 100,000 ISIS members.
    And it wouldn't be the most foul and disgusting genocide since WWII. Honest.
    I did not say "kill 1.6 billion muslims" , I said "wipe out ISIS". That was exactly my vote. The majority of people has voted the same way but I am the only one who stands up against the apologists, It seems that you are the one who has the comprehension problems.
    If it could be done surgically, quickly, and efficiently I would have no sympathy for ISIS being destroyed.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I would choose something more like: "Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries."
    Nice idea, I spent two tours in Afghanistan, it will never happen. The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    There are 1.6 billion muslims.
    I don't see the military strength which that number of people would produce.

    But sure, we can kill the 1,600,000,000 muslims - that should pretty much guarantee that we kill the 100,000 ISIS members.
    And it wouldn't be the most foul and disgusting genocide since WWII. Honest.
    I did not say "kill 1.6 billion muslims" , I said "wipe out ISIS". That was exactly my vote. The majority of people has voted the same way but I am the only one who stands up against the apologists, It seems that you are the one who has the comprehension problems.
    If it could be done surgically, quickly, and efficiently I would have no sympathy for ISIS being destroyed.
    Correction: it NEEDS to be done. This is what I did to the talibans in Afghanistan. And I would have no hesitation to leave my professorship and go do it to the ISIS. I still have my M-16 and I am still as sharp of marksman as I was.
    Last edited by Howard Roark; October 4th, 2014 at 09:59 PM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I would choose something more like: "Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries."
    Nice idea, I spent two tours in Afghanistan, it will never happen. The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    There are 1.6 billion muslims.
    I don't see the military strength which that number of people would produce.

    But sure, we can kill the 1,600,000,000 muslims - that should pretty much guarantee that we kill the 100,000 ISIS members.
    And it wouldn't be the most foul and disgusting genocide since WWII. Honest.
    I did not say "kill 1.6 billion muslims" , I said "wipe out ISIS". That was exactly my vote. The majority of people has voted the same way but I am the only one who stands up against the apologists, It seems that you are the one who has the comprehension problems.
    If it could be done surgically, quickly, and efficiently I would have no sympathy for ISIS being destroyed.
    Correction: it NEEDS to be done. This is what I did to the talibans in Afghanistan.
    I wouldn't want to commit the time and money this time around, though. We don't have it to spare. Afghanistan sort of demanded a response. We were attacked on our soil. But if we attack ISIS, I'd want a plan to get in and get out quickly, and to be shown how stability will be re achieved in the region.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post

    You guys continue along these lines and you will have the experience of the family of my soldier and the families of the recently decapitated civilians from both US and UK. Don't worry, the "religion of peace" will come knocking at your doors. In the meanwhile, keep whitewashing it, it may curry you some favor.
    ISIS have killed more Muslims than non-Muslims, by the thousands and thousands. They have killed a small handful of Westerners, but their predominant angst is against Shi'ite Muslims and other sects of Islam, such as the Kurds. To carry on as if they are at war with the West and want to subjugate 'us' is downright ridiculous.
    I bet your parents/grandparents said the same exact thing about the nazis. "It is a German problem, they are just getting rid of the German Jews/communists/socialists/Catholics/Gipsies". And they proceeded to bury their heads in the sand. And guess what, the nazis came after whatever country you are from: France/UK/US/etc. So, today, in hindsight, everybody agrees that the nazis should have dealt with. But the Chamberlains/FDRs/Daladiers/Stalins of the time (and your parents/grandparents) did not see it that way. Apologism is a disease, the people who do not know history are bound to repeat the mistakes.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I would choose something more like: "Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries."
    Nice idea, I spent two tours in Afghanistan, it will never happen. The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    There are 1.6 billion muslims.
    I don't see the military strength which that number of people would produce.

    But sure, we can kill the 1,600,000,000 muslims - that should pretty much guarantee that we kill the 100,000 ISIS members.
    And it wouldn't be the most foul and disgusting genocide since WWII. Honest.
    I did not say "kill 1.6 billion muslims" , I said "wipe out ISIS". That was exactly my vote. The majority of people has voted the same way but I am the only one who stands up against the apologists, It seems that you are the one who has the comprehension problems.
    If it could be done surgically, quickly, and efficiently I would have no sympathy for ISIS being destroyed.
    Correction: it NEEDS to be done. This is what I did to the talibans in Afghanistan.
    I wouldn't want to commit the time and money this time around, though. We don't have it to spare. Afghanistan sort of demanded a response. We were attacked on our soil. But if we attack ISIS, I'd want a plan to get in and get out quickly, and to be shown how stability will be re achieved in the region.
    Yeah, we said the same thing about the nazis...and their allies...
     

  53. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I would choose something more like: "Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries."
    Nice idea, I spent two tours in Afghanistan, it will never happen. The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    There are 1.6 billion muslims.
    I don't see the military strength which that number of people would produce.

    But sure, we can kill the 1,600,000,000 muslims - that should pretty much guarantee that we kill the 100,000 ISIS members.
    And it wouldn't be the most foul and disgusting genocide since WWII. Honest.
    I did not say "kill 1.6 billion muslims" , I said "wipe out ISIS".
    No. You said (and it's even in what you quoted):
    "The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran."

    You accuse me of having comprehension problems, when you can't even read what you wrote.
    (I assume that your cognitive dissonance is starting to kick in.)


    So - are you now retracting all your wild claims?
    "That's the point, it is not a 'small fraction'."
    "British muslims are the most vicious ISIS 'fighters'."
    "Don't worry, the "religion of peace" will come knocking at your doors."
    "The islam will not rest until they subjugate all others, atheists included. This is what their 'holy book' orders them to do."
    Because so far, all you have is a minuscule amount of experience of muslims (and some back-peddling).
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I bet your parents/grandparents said the same exact thing about the nazis.
    Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I accept your capitulation.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post

    You guys continue along these lines and you will have the experience of the family of my soldier and the families of the recently decapitated civilians from both US and UK. Don't worry, the "religion of peace" will come knocking at your doors. In the meanwhile, keep whitewashing it, it may curry you some favor.
    ISIS have killed more Muslims than non-Muslims, by the thousands and thousands. They have killed a small handful of Westerners, but their predominant angst is against Shi'ite Muslims and other sects of Islam, such as the Kurds. To carry on as if they are at war with the West and want to subjugate 'us' is downright ridiculous.
    I bet your parents/grandparents said the same exact thing about the nazis. "It is a German problem, they are just getting rid of the German Jews/communists/socialists/Catholics/Gipsies". And they proceeded to bury their heads in the sand. And guess what, the nazis came after whatever country you are from: France/UK/US/etc. So, today, in hindsight, everybody agrees that the nazis should have dealt with. But the Chamberlains/FDRs/Daladiers/Stalins of the time (and your parents/grandparents) did not see it that way. Apologism is a disease, the people who do not know history are bound to repeat the mistakes.
    I'm not actually sure, I never talked to my relatives who lived that old, but as German Jewish immigrant it's actually pretty likely that they supported involvement in the war. I'm not sure how many Whitstines were still in Germany during the holocaust, but we didn't all leave. But I understand your point.

    Regardless, my point is reasonable. I expect a plan to restore stability, a plan to get in and out quickly, and a plan not to spend trillions of dollars. These are not unreasonable requests. Anything less is highly irrational. We've seen the results of jumping into a war half cocked multiple times. We waste money and lives that could have been prevented with a better formulated strategy. I could re-state what you said about repeating past mistakes.

    Also, I wouldn't accept starting a war because of a war on Islam. I would never support any such war. If I had to lean towards fighting too many wars, or not fighting enough, I'll definitely lean towards the latter.

    Further, no country has entered a war for altruistic reasons. It's always self interest.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    I would choose something more like: "Subvert ISIS' ideology by becoming a positive force in Islamic countries."
    Nice idea, I spent two tours in Afghanistan, it will never happen. The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    There are 1.6 billion muslims.
    I don't see the military strength which that number of people would produce.

    But sure, we can kill the 1,600,000,000 muslims - that should pretty much guarantee that we kill the 100,000 ISIS members.
    And it wouldn't be the most foul and disgusting genocide since WWII. Honest.
    I did not say "kill 1.6 billion muslims" , I said "wipe out ISIS".
    No. You said (and it's even in what you quoted):
    "The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran."

    You accuse me of having comprehension problems, when you can't even read what you wrote.
    (I assume that your cognitive dissonance is starting to kick in.)
    That doesn't mean I was promoting the "wiping out of islam". I was explaining what the q'uran advocates, not what I advocate. Is English your second language?

    So - are you now retracting all your wild claims?
    I know that you are very weak on physics/science, now you prove that your logic is not all that.


    Because so far, all you have is a minuscule amount of experience of muslims (and some back-peddling).
    Back "peddling"? English is definitely your second language.
    Last edited by Howard Roark; October 4th, 2014 at 10:32 PM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post

    You guys continue along these lines and you will have the experience of the family of my soldier and the families of the recently decapitated civilians from both US and UK. Don't worry, the "religion of peace" will come knocking at your doors. In the meanwhile, keep whitewashing it, it may curry you some favor.
    ISIS have killed more Muslims than non-Muslims, by the thousands and thousands. They have killed a small handful of Westerners, but their predominant angst is against Shi'ite Muslims and other sects of Islam, such as the Kurds. To carry on as if they are at war with the West and want to subjugate 'us' is downright ridiculous.
    I bet your parents/grandparents said the same exact thing about the nazis. "It is a German problem, they are just getting rid of the German Jews/communists/socialists/Catholics/Gipsies". And they proceeded to bury their heads in the sand. And guess what, the nazis came after whatever country you are from: France/UK/US/etc. So, today, in hindsight, everybody agrees that the nazis should have dealt with. But the Chamberlains/FDRs/Daladiers/Stalins of the time (and your parents/grandparents) did not see it that way. Apologism is a disease, the people who do not know history are bound to repeat the mistakes.
    I'm not actually sure, I never talked to my relatives who lived that old, but as German Jewish immigrant it's actually pretty likely that they supported involvement in the war.
    did they? why don't you ask?


    I'm not sure how many Whitstines were still in Germany during the holocaust, but we didn't all leave. But I understand your point.
    good.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I bet your parents/grandparents said the same exact thing about the nazis.
    Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    But the parallel between the ISIS / Al Quaida apologists and the nazi apologists is dead on. The same people, the same avoidance , head in the sand "solution".
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    No. You said (and it's even in what you quoted):
    "The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran."

    You accuse me of having comprehension problems, when you can't even read what you wrote.
    (I assume that your cognitive dissonance is starting to kick in.)
    That doesn't mean I was promoting the "wiping out of islam".
    But you were though, weren't you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I was explaining what the q'uran advocates, not what I advocate.
    "The war waged by islam" is not just "explaining what the q'uran advocates". It is saying that all muslims are at war with "the rest of the civilized world".

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Is English your second language?
    I know that you are very weak on physics/science, now you prove that your logic is not all that.
    English is definitely your second language.
    It is not unusual for someone, when losing an argument, to resort to insults.
    (Especially common are insults related to spelling mistakes.)
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I bet your parents/grandparents said the same exact thing about the nazis.
    Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    But the parallel between the ISIS / Al Quaida apologists and the nazi apologists is dead on. The same people, the same avoidance , head in the sand "solution".
    I'm not saying action should not be taken against ISIS, what I've been advocating since the beginning is that you were judging an entire religion that totals 1.6 billion people or 22% of the worlds population by the small portion of them that you encountered in Afghanistan. You are advocating that they are all murderous bastards that will kill anyone that disagrees with them. The population of Afghanistan is approx 30.5 million, if everyone of them were Muslim, and you miraculously encountered every single fucking one of them, you would have met 1.9% of the worlds's Muslim population. So what you experienced is nowhere near enough to give you a good representation of Muslims as a whole. Also you keep calling Islam "the religion of peace," trying to get across your opinion that it is an ironic title, while I have never referred to it as the religion of peace. In fact I have said that Islam is a bloodstained religion just like Christianity is.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
    - Yagyu Munenori

    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    No. You said (and it's even in what you quoted):
    "The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran."

    You accuse me of having comprehension problems, when you can't even read what you wrote.
    (I assume that your cognitive dissonance is starting to kick in.)
    That doesn't mean I was promoting the "wiping out of islam".
    But you were though, weren't you.
    You'll have to prove it or you will need to retract.
     

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    backpedaling -
    1. To move the pedals of a bicycle or similar vehicle backward, especially to apply a brake.2. To move backward by taking short quick steps, as in boxing or football.
    3. To retreat or withdraw from a position or attitude

    back·ped·al
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I bet your parents/grandparents said the same exact thing about the nazis.
    Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    But the parallel between the ISIS / Al Quaida apologists and the nazi apologists is dead on. The same people, the same avoidance , head in the sand "solution".
    I'm not saying action should not be taken against ISIS,
    This is precisely what I am saying as well.

    what I've been advocating since the beginning is that you were judging an entire religion that totals 1.6 billion people or 22% of the worlds population by the small portion of them that you encountered in Afghanistan. You are advocating that they are all murderous bastards that will kill anyone that disagrees with them.
    This is what they have been doing, this is what their "holy book" is telling them to do. Submit or be killed.


    The population of Afghanistan is approx 30.5 million, if everyone of them were Muslim, and you miraculously encountered every single fucking one of them, you would have met 1.9% of the worlds's Muslim population. So what you experienced is nowhere near enough to give you a good representation of Muslims as a whole. Also you keep calling Islam "the religion of peace," trying to get across your opinion that it is an ironic title, while I have never referred to it as the religion of peace. In fact I have said that Islam is a bloodstained religion just like Christianity is.
    This is precisely what your forefathers were saying about the nazis. "They are not so bad, they are dealing with an internal problem, they will never come after us, not all are the same". Today, all nazis are bad. In hindsight, you are have 20/20.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I bet your parents/grandparents said the same exact thing about the nazis.
    Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    But the parallel between the ISIS / Al Quaida apologists and the nazi apologists is dead on. The same people, the same avoidance , head in the sand "solution".
    I'm not saying action should not be taken against ISIS, what I've been advocating since the beginning is that you were judging an entire religion that totals 1.6 billion people or 22% of the worlds population by the small portion of them that you encountered in Afghanistan. You are advocating that they are all murderous bastards that will kill anyone that disagrees with them. The population of Afghanistan is approx 30.5 million, if everyone of them were Muslim, and you miraculously encountered every single fucking one of them, you would have met 1.9% of the worlds's Muslim population. So what you experienced is nowhere near enough to give you a good representation of Muslims as a whole. Also you keep calling Islam "the religion of peace," trying to get across your opinion that it is an ironic title, while I have never referred to it as the religion of peace. In fact I have said that Islam is a bloodstained religion just like Christianity is.

    This is precisely what your forefathers were saying about the nazis.
    "They are not so bad, they are dealing with an internal problem, they will never come after us, not all are the same". Today, all nazis are bad. In hindsight, you are have 20/20.
    *Bolded parts were made bold by me.*


    So you are saying that all Muslims are the same as Nazis? Nice Howard, real nice. And in your own words all Nazis are bad, thus all Muslims are bad. If Muslims are all bad and evil, then all Christians must be as well. You know since the KKK are Christians and they're bad people.

    Do you see the obvious reasons why generalizations are wrong yet? Or do I have to spell it out one syllable at a time?
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
    - Yagyu Munenori

    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I bet your parents/grandparents said the same exact thing about the nazis.
    Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
    But the parallel between the ISIS / Al Quaida apologists and the nazi apologists is dead on. The same people, the same avoidance , head in the sand "solution".
    I'm not saying action should not be taken against ISIS, what I've been advocating since the beginning is that you were judging an entire religion that totals 1.6 billion people or 22% of the worlds population by the small portion of them that you encountered in Afghanistan. You are advocating that they are all murderous bastards that will kill anyone that disagrees with them. The population of Afghanistan is approx 30.5 million, if everyone of them were Muslim, and you miraculously encountered every single fucking one of them, you would have met 1.9% of the worlds's Muslim population. So what you experienced is nowhere near enough to give you a good representation of Muslims as a whole. Also you keep calling Islam "the religion of peace," trying to get across your opinion that it is an ironic title, while I have never referred to it as the religion of peace. In fact I have said that Islam is a bloodstained religion just like Christianity is.

    This is precisely what your forefathers were saying about the nazis.
    "They are not so bad, they are dealing with an internal problem, they will never come after us, not all are the same". Today, all nazis are bad. In hindsight, you are have 20/20.
    *Bolded parts were made bold by me.*


    So you are saying that all Muslims are the same as Nazis?
    We are talking ISIS, do you have difficulties in following your own line of argument. Here is my EXACT sentence:

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark
    But the parallel between the ISIS / Al Quaida apologists and the nazi apologists is dead on
    and here is your answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by Falconeer
    I'm not saying action should not be taken against ISIS,
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconeer
    If Muslims are all bad and evil, then all Christians must be as well. You know since the KKK are Christians and they're bad people.

    Do you see the obvious reasons why generalizations are wrong yet? Or do I have to spell it out one syllable at a time?
    Don't pin your no-sequiturs on me. Own them.
     

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    Howard here is our conversation from farther up: I've underlined the key parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    A policeman was shot in the UK by a "peaceful" teenager that the policeman was protecting from criminals.
    Obviously, they will be arresting anyone who is British.
    Well, you are starting to experience it as well, the British muslims are the most vicious ISIS "fighters". (more like abject cowards).

    Ok - you hate them. We get that.
    But don't expect your limited experience of muslims (and yes, your experience is very limited) to convince us that most/all muslims are killers-in-waiting.
    Three years in Afghanistan is not "limited experience". It is more experience than any of you have, baring the muslims posting. And, please don't tell me that what I experienced was an "isolated incident". I lived it every day, for 3 years. It is easy to be open minded from thousands of miles away.
    You cannot judge an entire group by one sect.
    I judge them by their actions.
    Wow, Howard... Just wow. Way to ignore 90% of what I said. I was trying to be polite about this whole subject. You cannot logically judge 22% of the worlds population by the actions of a small fraction of them. Saying that all Americans are lazy sacks of shit is generalizing less people.
    That's the point, it is not a "small fraction". But keep whitewashing it, might curry you some favors when they come knocking at your door. Carry on, boys.
    The first underlined and bolded part was a bit of one of my posts where you ignored 90% of what I said and only responded to one sentence.

    The second part is where I point that it is ridiculous to judge every Muslim in the world by the actions of groups like the Taliban or ISIS which only represent a fraction of the total Muslim population.

    The third part is where you state that it is not a "small fraction" that is evil. The conversation goes on more, but either you misunderstood me and thought I meant that ISIS wasn't evil or you are now withdrawing what appears to be your claim earlier that all Muslims are murderers. In your post where you claim I cannot follow the line of my own argument if you, look in the part that you replied to by saying "this is precisely what your forefathers said about the Nazis..." you will see that I clearly stated the murderous members you encountered are not representative of Islam as a whole. So your reply about that's what my forefathers thought of the Nazis appears to be directed at all of Islam.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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    HR's mindset has been poisoned by his experiences. His assertion that Obama is a muslim is typical of the mindlessness of this poison. We may regret that as a society we put him through those experiences. That does not justify such thoughtless hatred. Hatred breeds hatred.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    HR's mindset has been poisoned by his experiences. His assertion that Obama is a muslim is typical of the mindlessness of this poison. That does not justify such thoughtless hatred.
    The way things are going in the world, the odds are quite high that one of these days, soon, one or more of you appeasers will have an experience similar to mine. I would like to hear from you then, when you receive your child in pieces, in a box. It may be an explosion on the "tube", it may be a bus, it may be a beheading in front of the workplace like in the US, a rocket aimed at a kindergarten. See how you plan to negotiate a "political settlement" with ISIS, Hamas, Hezzbolah, Al-Quaida, Bokum al Haram, Al Shahab, and the list goes on. I don't know the name of the cells in Scotland, England, Germany, France, Sweden, US but I am willing to bet that there are quite a few. You will not understand until you live my experience. And I am willing to bet that some , not all, of you , will continue with the policy of appeasment.

    Hatred breeds hatred.
    Riiiight, the victims are responsible.

    We may regret that as a society we put him through those experiences.
    Do you regret? Honestly? Do you blame the "society" for putting me in the hunt for the murderers of 3000 civilians at the towers? So, the victims are to blame for the hatred. Interesting logic.
    Let me tell you one thing: it wasn't hatred or vengeance what took me to Afghanistan. It was the fact that I wanted the masterminds to be wiped off, such that they couldn't do their monstrous acts again. No, I did not get osama but I did get a lot of his lieutenants. And I have no apology for that, if needs be, I will do it again. Nor do I have hatred, I have contempt.
    Last edited by Howard Roark; October 5th, 2014 at 02:25 AM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post

    The way things are going in the world, the odds are quite high that one of these days, soon, one or more of you appeasers will have an experience similar to mine. I would like to hear from you then, when you receive your child in pieces, in a box. It may be ann explosion on the "tube", it may be a bus, it may be a beheading in front of the workplace like in the US. See how you plan to negotiate a "political settlement" with ISIS, Hamas, Hezzbolah, Al-Quaida, Bokum al Haram, Al Shahab, and the list goes on. I don't know the name of the cells in Scotland, England, Germany, France, Sweden, US but I am willing to bet that there are quite a few. You will not understand until you live my experience. And I am willing to bet that some , not all, of you , will continue with the policy of appeasment.
    Just as you completely fail to understand the experience of Muslims who are at risk of ISIS when you make blanket statements about a religion and talk of wiping all who follow that religion out:

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran.
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    There isn't a "political solution" when you deal with barbarians bent on wiping out everybody that does not submit to their ideology. The only solution is to wipe out the barbarians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I would agree if I didn't know first hand that you can't wipe out islam. People moved away from Christianity, Judaism, Budhism by the millions. Not so with islam. The islam will not rest until they subjugate all others, atheists included. This is what their "holy book" orders them to do.
    By this point, I fail to see the difference between you and "them". You go further, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I served two tours of duty in Afghanistan. On the second tour I had a young soldier under my command fall for a young local from the tribe we were protecting from taliban. One day, the young soldier was nowhere to be found. After a protracted search we found his dismembered body, he was dismembered by the very "peaceful muslims" that we were protecting from the taliban, the family of the young woman he fell for, there was no taliban within 100 miles radius. I ordered an investigation only to be ordered to discontinue the investigation by my superiors who had received an order straight from the muslim in the White House. We never found the head, so we had to send the body parts in a coffin. As CO, it befell on me to explain to his family what happened to their son. He was just 20. Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    From the Muslim in the White House?

    Could you be more of a racist and bigot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Three years in Afghanistan is not "limited experience". It is more experience than any of you have, baring the muslims posting. And, please don't tell me that what I experienced was an "isolated incident". I lived it every day, for 3 years. It is easy to be open minded from thousands of miles away.
    What you experienced is far from the norm and frankly, your views are very racist and bigoted. Perhaps your views of Muslims probably made your experience there even worse.

    And your argument now is no different to what those who support ISIS argue. The complete destruction of the other, which in my opinion, makes you no different to them.

    I judge them by their actions.
    And we can only judge you by your words. Thus far, in this thread at least, you are not coming across in a very positive light.

    That's the point, it is not a "small fraction". But keep whitewashing it, might curry you some favors when they come knocking at your door. Carry on, boys.
    So your solution is to simply destroy them all as you noted earlier? It is because of offensive comments like this that makes you come across like a raving bigot.

    Perhaps it's time you started digging that bunker in the backyard and stockpile food for when they start comin' fer ye women and gold.

    I bet your parents/grandparents said the same exact thing about the nazis. "It is a German problem, they are just getting rid of the German Jews/communists/socialists/Catholics/Gipsies". And they proceeded to bury their heads in the sand. And guess what, the nazis came after whatever country you are from: France/UK/US/etc. So, today, in hindsight, everybody agrees that the nazis should have dealt with. But the Chamberlains/FDRs/Daladiers/Stalins of the time (and your parents/grandparents) did not see it that way. Apologism is a disease, the people who do not know history are bound to repeat the mistakes.
    My Grandfather fought in the war. And nearly died in the process. He was one of the 'coloured' folks that the white Europeans forced into the trenches without their consent. I've dealt with hatred like yours my whole life and I have seen what it does to people my whole life. Your attitude towards Muslims is no different to the attitudes the likes of ISIS have towards others who are not like them.

    I did not say "kill 1.6 billion muslims" , I said "wipe out ISIS". That was exactly my vote. The majority of people has voted the same way but I am the only one who stands up against the apologists, It seems that you are the one who has the comprehension problems. Same observation goes for the rest of the people who have the same comprehension issue.
    Refer to above. You advocated destroying the whole.

    The way things are going in the world, the odds are quite high that one of these days, soon, one or more of you appeasers will have an experience similar to mine. I would like to hear from you then, when you receive your child in pieces, in a box. It may be ann explosion on the "tube", it may be a bus, it may be a beheading in front of the workplace like in the US. See how you plan to negotiate a "political settlement" with ISIS, Hamas, Hezzbolah, Al-Quaida, Bokum al Haram, Al Shahab, and the list goes on. I don't know the name of the cells in Scotland, England, Germany, France, Sweden, US but I am willing to bet that there are quite a few. You will not understand until you live my experience. And I am willing to bet that some , not all, of you , will continue with the policy of appeasment.
    My ex husband nearly killed me with a knife while our small children looked on. If I were to take your argument at face value, all white Christian males are dangerous and violent and should be destroyed. But you can't know this because your experience is completely different to mine, so by your attitude, I could very well follow that type of reasoning. However, I am not full of hatred. So thankfully, I am not like you.

    Frankly, it is attitudes such as yours that drive the hatred from the other side, and vice versa. You feed off each other and you both label the whole by the actions of the few. You are exactly like them. Your hatred, attitude, views of the other. It is exactly the same. I find you to be horrendously offensive. I hate to even consider what the many Muslim posters and members of this site will think of this and you. Thankfully the ignore function is very good for dealing with the likes of you.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post

    Frankly, it is attitudes such as yours that drive the hatred from the other side, and vice versa.
    Riiight, it is the western world "hatred" that drives the Hamas,Hezbollah, ISIS. Al-Quaida, Al Shahab, Bokum al Haram, etc, etc. Poor things, what else can they do, the whole world hates them.

    So your solution is to simply destroy them all as you noted earlier? It is because of offensive comments like this that makes you come across like a raving bigot.
    ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. need to be destroyed in order for humankind to survive. Iran nuclear plans need to be stopped. I am sorry if this appears to you to be bigoted and racist, you have a distorted view of what the terms really mean.

    My Grandfather fought in the war. And nearly died in the process. He was one of the 'coloured' folks that the white Europeans forced into the trenches without their consent.
    My great-grandfather was a sniper in WWI against the germans. My grandfather was a sniper in WWII against the germans, my father was a sniper against the japanese. I am a sniper against the talibs. I am proud of our record.

    My ex husband nearly killed me with a knife while our small children looked on. If I were to take your argument at face value, all white Christian males are dangerous and violent and should be destroyed.
    I am sorry to hear that but your logic escapes me. You seem to put your personal incident on the same plane as the murder of the 3000+ civilians at the towers.

    But you can't know this because your experience is completely different to mine, so by your attitude, I could very well follow that type of reasoning. However, I am not full of hatred. So thankfully, I am not like you.
    If you read my post, I am not full of hatred. I am full of contempt. You will understand that the day you receive one of your children, in pieces, in a box. Not that I wish that on you. I also feel pride that I put quite a few of the bad guys away. While the likes of you were sitting home finding reasons to apologize for their actions.

    Frankly, it is attitudes such as yours that drive the hatred from the other side, and vice versa.
    No, the hatred for the western world is what drives the killings. You need to stop blaming the victims of terrorism for what the terrorists are doing. It wasn't the hatred for islam of the 3000+ that died at the towers that caused them to be murdered in cold blood by muslim terrorists.
    Last edited by Howard Roark; October 5th, 2014 at 03:57 AM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post

    Riiight, it is the western world "hatred" that drives the Hamas,Hezbollah, ISIS. Al-Quaida, Al Shahab, Bokum al Haram, etc, etc. Poor things, what else can they do, the whole world hates them.
    Remember that at one time you , USA, supported their causes. Like when USSR was in Afghanistan you supported Osama to fight with his Mujhaideen to expel USSR out of Afghanistan. Now they are pain in your collective asses. Sorry for language.


    You will understand that the day you receive one of your children, in pieces, in a box.
    And what do think about innocent children , families, bread earners, being killed by drones? And why fucking USA is not helping Palestine? You are reaping what you have sown.
    I request mods , please dont allow him to spread hatred against Muslims. Thank you
    We as Muslim Ummah, condemn all acts of violence / terrorism by ISIS, TTP, KKK, USA, NATO , etc.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by precious siraj View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post

    Riiight, it is the western world "hatred" that drives the Hamas,Hezbollah, ISIS. Al-Quaida, Al Shahab, Bokum al Haram, etc, etc. Poor things, what else can they do, the whole world hates them.
    Remember that at one time you , USA, supported their causes. Like when USSR was in Afghanistan you supported Osama to fight with his Mujhaideen to expel USSR out of Afghanistan. Now they are pain in your collective asses. Sorry for language.
    I am fully aware of that. Doesn't justify what they do in any form.

    You will understand that the day you receive one of your children, in pieces, in a box.
    And what do think about innocent children , families, bread earners, being killed by drones?
    Collateral damage, they associate with terrorists, they suffer the consequences, such is war. The drones target the talibs. You know that first hand, they reside in Pakistan, this is where they originated in first place.

    And why fucking USA is not helping Palestine? You are reaping what you have sown.
    You mean the billions that US and EU send to the palestinians?


    We as Muslim Ummah, condemn all acts of violence / terrorism by ISIS, TTP, KKK, USA, NATO , etc.
    The silence in condemning ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Shahab, Bokum al Haram, etc. is deafening. The condemnation of the iranian nuclear weapon program is also deafening.
    You are indeed very vocal in condemning US and its allies, NATO, Israel (for defending itself), India (for the same reason), Russia (for dealing with the Chechen terrorism).
    Last edited by Howard Roark; October 5th, 2014 at 03:45 AM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post

    Riiight, it is the western world "hatred" that drives the Hamas,Hezbollah, ISIS. Al-Quaida, Al Shahab, Bokum al Haram, etc, etc. Poor things, what else can they do, the whole world hates them.
    Actually what drives those groups is their hatred of their fellow Muslims. I understand that part clearly escapes you. But those groups have killed more Muslims than they have anyone else.

    ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. need to be destroyed in order for humankind to survive. Iran nuclear plans need to be stopped. I am sorry if this appears to you to be bigoted and racist, you have a distorted view of what the terms really mean.
    They are the counterbalance for the threat that those like you are to society in general. They exist because those like you and your beliefs exist and vice versa. It is a vicious and ugly circle.

    Iran's nuclear plans? I would be more concerned with other countries having nuclear weapons. Iran is nothing on the likes of North Korea and Russia. Both of whom have directly threatened others with war and nuclear weapons, one of which has supplied its mercenary forces with weapons to shoot down a passenger jet full of innocent men, women and children, many of whom were Muslims in fact.

    You are so obsessed with Islam and Muslim, your hatred for them is so focused down to a pin-point, that you have failed to notice all that is going on around you.

    I am sorry to hear that but your logic escapes me. You seem to put your personal incident on the same plane as the murder of the 3000+ civilians at the towers.
    If I were to use your logic, I would. But I am not.

    The actions of the very very few do not convey the attitudes or beliefs of the many. Unless of course you are going to suggest that the likes of Breivik, for example, is indicative of the beliefs and attitudes of all Westerners?

    3000+ civilians died on 9/11? The US and her allies have killed thousands of civilians and called it collateral damage.


    If you read my post, I am not full of hatred. I am full of contempt. You will understand that the day you receive one of your children, in pieces, in a box. Not that I wish that on you. I also feel pride that I put quite a few of the bad guys away. While the likes of you were sitting home finding reasons to apologize for their actions.
    You keep repeating this phrase about putting pieces of children in boxes. Obsessively, if I might add. While you may not wish it on others, your repeated use of the phrase is as if you are wishing it on others, as though you are saying that you want that to happen to others so that they can see your point of view.

    Muslims have been warning the world about ISIS since the first moment they made their appearance. The world ignored them and did not listen.

    Collateral damage, they associate with terrorists, they suffer the consequences.
    Bombing innocent civilians and dismissing it as collateral damage is part of the problem.

    You can't even view them as human beings deserving of rights. Just collateral damage because of where they happen to live or their religion.

    The silence in condemning ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Shahab, Bokum al Haram, etc. is deafening.
    You are clearly not listening. Then again, you don't want to listen because it does not fit into the view you have of Muslims. Muslims have committed more lives, weapons and money in trying to combat ISIS than anyone else has, from the moment they first appeared. The West and the world are only now just waking up to it.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    I am sorry if you feel I was lecturing you, for that was not my intention; I merely expressed my opinion that Islam is not in any way different from all other religions. Any religion or philosophical system can be abused as an excuse for pushing a personal/political/cultural/philosophical agenda by some, which is precisely what groups such as ISIS do. It is not hard to find examples of this in all major belief systems. But using that as a justification to paint all Muslims with the same brush is simply wrong.

    Having said all of this, I realize that much of our opinions on matters of religion and politics are formed by our experiences - had I done a tour of Afghanistan, I may or may not be thinking differently about this. As it stands though my experiences with the Muslim world were - and continue to be - by and large of a positive or neutral nature, so to me extremists like ISIS do not represent the majority of Muslims any more than ( e.g. ) the Army of God represents Christianity. On the contrary, they stand for everything religion in general is never meant to be - and making people understand this is ultimately the best way of defeating them.
     

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    @HR, Collateral damage! are you serious.

    I think you are paid to make apologists on your side and work to create atmosphere where pentagon will be able to attack another Muslim Country on the basis of fake "fear of terrorism".

    UK elections are nearby, so they need to remind their citizens how dangerous Muslims are. And only we can save you from their wrath. They are using fear of their citizens.

    Their is industry named "War on terrorism". Dont you see how much budget is used for your army? And you are an army man. why should we believe you? It is your business? Did you not say there are chemical weapons in Iraq? You need a cause to keep alive your industry named "War on terrorism"

    Remember, ISIS is a monster, nobody from Muslim countries support its cause (International Muslim caliphate).
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    No. You said (and it's even in what you quoted):
    "The war waged by islam on the rest of the civilized world will go on until one wipes out the other. This is the ideology of q'uran."

    You accuse me of having comprehension problems, when you can't even read what you wrote.
    (I assume that your cognitive dissonance is starting to kick in.)
    That doesn't mean I was promoting the "wiping out of islam".
    But you were though, weren't you.
    You'll have to prove it or you will need to retract.
    The simple fact that you can't bring yourself to deny it, is proof enough.

    The army trained you to hate muslims.
    You are simply being the obedient dog they brainwashed you into.
    It's not really your fault - dehumanisation of the enemy is normal practice when going to war.
    But it has left you holding irrational and unfounded beliefs and a hatred/fear of all muslims.
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    Yikes, is there any way we can yank down the Damoclean Sword to cut this here Gordian knot?

    HR, I honor your service, being a 6 year vet myself. Nor did you ever say kill all Muslims, as some suggest.

    (Never have I been under fire except once in a comic communist terrorist incident in Lisbon. Yours was a very deeply different type of harsh service, for both good and triage. Like POW's 2nd or 3rd deepest sacrifice, they are both lucid in understanding of certain points of society and usually tainted with brittle ideals. The WWII PoWs often had children turn against them in the 1960's. Speaking of such, just PTSD of Rod Sterling's memory of seeing his best buddy get offed from a falling supply parachute drop is believed to be the source of his fascination of the E.A. Poe type of macabre, giving us Twilight Zone and the Night Gallery. )

    But the boy's love for the girl was out of bounds in such a society as most parts of Afghanistan at such a time. Muslims _are_ a circle of violence. So were we until not so long ago, the murder rate of the middle ages being much higher than nowadays. Theirs will be a longer trip, if ever, and several writers mention this a century back, iirc, because of the insistence in the Koran. It makes the Old Testament look like Bambi and Thumper at play, as far as I can tell. Buddhists are even milder, but still prone to occasional Aum Shinrikyo spasms. Like claiming South Vietnam would be a true democracy was a mistake (John H. Richardson), so is doing the same to Iraq or Syria a poor strategy. You as soldiers have to respect the locals traditions, be they opium poppies or killing children who change religions. They have to work these things out by themselves.

    As far as the rest of this discussion goes, I get weary. Here is some on the opposite side. As said, my solution is largely to give the Muslim countries space, and ultimately let them have options so to better choose their own path. ISIS/etc oppose that and propose with inventive means ways to force Muslims to extremes. Most Muslims want no part of it, yet have poor methods of preventing it. Like our European Allies, Muslim countries have a great tendency to fudge the problem. And many/most ordinary Muslims _are_ in favor of keeping or going back to Sharia and other extremes. Sooner or later let them go off in the deeper sorts of extremes, especially in non strategic areas and with local cultures that are unlikely to gleefully harbor international terrorists. That is the worst for the outside world, those countries tend to let in the goofy types who want to spread it overseas into non Muslim areas, especially in Afghanistan where giving refuge is especially a cultural tradition.

    Bringing the World under Its Domination? | Liberty.me

    An ultimate solution is to grow (via algae) or find very cheap sources (methane clatherates?) of oil/gas, if not invent some other complete replacement, and then let Muslims decide for themselves what they want to be. Enough Muslims in power of education and position want to avoid anarchy of the most religious and violent kinds and in the end it should sort itself out, hopefully without any kind of Richard Maybury's Chaostan.


    There are no easy solutions, just well managed decisions. A conglomerate of the above poll is in order, as the situation is seen fit, excepting genocide. All feel free to comment on my or other posts of the thread, but I leave the field to yourselves now.
    Last edited by jjmckane; October 5th, 2014 at 10:10 AM. Reason: Sooner or later let them ...
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmckane View Post
    Yikes, is there any way we can yank down the Damoclean Sword to cut this here Gordian knot?

    HR, I honor your service, being a 6 year vet myself. Nor did you ever say kill all Muslims, as some suggest.

    (Never have I been under fire except once in a comic communist terrorist incident in Lisbon. Yours was a very deeply different type of harsh service, for both good and triage. Like POW's 2nd or 3rd deepest sacrifice, they are both lucid in understanding of certain points of society and usually tainted with brittle ideals. The WWII PoWs often had children turn against them in the 1960's. Speaking of such, just PTSD of Rod Sterling's memory of seeing his best buddy get offed from a falling supply parachute drop is believed to be the source of his fascination of the E.A. Poe type of macabre, giving us Twilight Zone and the Night Gallery. )

    But the boy's love for the girl was out of bounds in such a society as most parts of Afghanistan at such a time. Muslims _are_ a circle of violence. So were we until not so long ago, the murder rate of the middle ages being much higher than nowadays. Theirs will be a longer trip, if ever, and several writers mention this a century back, iirc, because of the insistence in the Koran. It makes the Old Testament look like Bambi and Thumper at play, as far as I can tell. Buddhists are even milder, but still prone to occasional Aum Shinrikyo spasms. Like claiming South Vietnam would be a true democracy was a mistake (John H. Richardson), so is doing the same to Iraq or Syria a poor strategy. You as soldiers have to respect the locals traditions, be they opium poppies or killing children who change religions. They have to work these things out by themselves.

    As far as the rest of this discussion goes, I get weary. Here is some on the opposite side. As said, my solution is largely to give the Muslim countries space, and ultimately let them have options so to better choose their own path. ISIS/etc oppose that and propose with inventive means ways to force Muslims to extremes. Most Muslims want no part of it, yet have poor methods of preventing it. Like our European Allies, Muslim countries have a great tendency to fudge the problem. And many/most ordinary Muslims _are_ in favor of keeping or going back to Sharia and other extremes. Sooner or later let them go off in the deeper sorts of extremes, especially in non strategic areas and with local cultures that are unlikely to gleefully harbor international terrorists. That is the worst for the outside world, those countries tend to let in the goofy types who want to spread it overseas into non Muslim areas, especially in Afghanistan where giving refuge is especially a cultural tradition.

    Bringing the World under Its Domination? | Liberty.me

    An ultimate solution is to grow (via algae) or find very cheap sources (methane clatherates?) of oil/gas, if not invent some other complete replacement, and then let Muslims decide for themselves what they want to be. Enough Muslims in power of education and position want to avoid anarchy of the most religious and violent kinds and in the end it should sort itself out, hopefully without any kind of Richard Maybury's Chaostan.


    There are no easy solutions, just well managed decisions. A conglomerate of the above poll is in order, as the situation is seen fit, excepting genocide. All feel free to comment on my or other posts of the thread, but I leave the field to yourselves now.
    I fully agree with you, brother. Every single point. I couldn't have said it any better.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Please refrain from giving me lessons about the "religion of peace", you are a good scientist, you know nothing about the "religion of peace".
    I am sorry if you feel I was lecturing you, for that was not my intention; I merely expressed my opinion that Islam is not in any way different from all other religions. Any religion or philosophical system can be abused as an excuse for pushing a personal/political/cultural/philosophical agenda by some, which is precisely what groups such as ISIS do. It is not hard to find examples of this in all major belief systems. But using that as a justification to paint all Muslims with the same brush is simply wrong.

    Having said all of this, I realize that much of our opinions on matters of religion and politics are formed by our experiences - had I done a tour of Afghanistan, I may or may not be thinking differently about this. As it stands though my experiences with the Muslim world were - and continue to be - by and large of a positive or neutral nature, so to me extremists like ISIS do not represent the majority of Muslims any more than ( e.g. ) the Army of God represents Christianity. On the contrary, they stand for everything religion in general is never meant to be - and making people understand this is ultimately the best way of defeating them.
    Markus,

    Thank you for your measured, rational answer. I have only one question for you, when you lived in Malaysia, was Mahathir prime minister?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Any religion or philosophical system can be abused as an excuse for pushing a personal/political/cultural/philosophical agenda by some, which is precisely what groups such as ISIS do. It is not hard to find examples of this in all major belief systems. But using that as a justification to paint all Muslims with the same brush is simply wrong.

    . .As it stands though my experiences with the Muslim world were - and continue to be - by and large of a positive or neutral nature, so to me extremists like ISIS do not represent the majority of Muslims any more than ( e.g. ) the Army of God represents Christianity. On the contrary, they stand for everything religion in general is never meant to be - and making people understand this is ultimately the best way of defeating them.
    Great summary. Religion can be perverted for any number of political goals. Pope Urban II used religion to begin a series of holy wars that killed millions. The Salem witch trials, the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, the Mujahideen, Bin Laden and Breivik - they all perverted religion to justify their violence. Both the Bible and Koran can be read in a way to justify nearly anything - and unfortunately some people excel at doing just that.
     

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    Howard, we seem to have gone around in circles with both of us possibly misunderstanding the other. Do you have contempt for all Muslims? Because this is what a lot of your posts seemed to convey. This is especially true of posts #24, #38, and #39. Since I first started posting in this thread, all I have been saying is that not all Muslims are like the extremists in their group, and never once did you agree with me. Were you actually reading what I was writing or were you only skimming, or getting flustered and replying half-cocked without fully reading what was said? No one here has came out in support of ISIS or the Taliban. The only Muslims that we have defended are the non-extremist ones.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Howard, we seem to have gone around in circles with both of us possibly misunderstanding the other. Do you have contempt for all Muslims?
    Only for the ones that are terrorists. I never said that all muslims are terrorists. Yet a large percentage of today's terror comes from muslims. An overwhelming number of terror groups are muslim. These are facts.

    No one here has came out in support of ISIS or the Taliban. The only Muslims that we have defended are the non-extremist ones.
    No one attacked the non-extremist muslims. I am curious, I voted for "Wipe out ISIS". How did you vote? Care to share?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Howard, we seem to have gone around in circles with both of us possibly misunderstanding the other. Do you have contempt for all Muslims?
    Only for the ones that are terrorists. I never said that all muslims are terrorists. Yet a large percentage of today's terror comes from muslims. An overwhelming number of terror groups are muslim. These are facts.

    No one here has came out in support of ISIS or the Taliban. The only Muslims that we have defended are the non-extremist ones.
    No one attacked the non-extremist muslims. I am curious, I voted for "Wipe out ISIS". How did you vote? Care to share?
    Thank you Howard for answering me. I didn't vote in Robitty's poll because I feel that the matter is not that simple. Yes, wiping ISIS out is good starting point. However, fighting terrorist groups is like fighting gangs in ways. When you take out the dominate group, one of the smaller groups rises to take its place. So say we wipe out ISIS, then another group looking to make a name for themselves will start making noise. It's like fighting the mythological hydra, all we keep doing is cutting off heads. So we need to find a way to deter the mere idea of becoming a terrorist group.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    So say we wipe out ISIS, then another group looking to make a name for themselves will start making noise. It's like fighting the mythological hydra, all we keep doing is cutting off heads. So we need to find a way to deter the mere idea of becoming a terrorist group.
    So, how do we solve the terror groups? according to repeated claims in this thread, the terrorists are just a small fraction of the 1.6 billion strong moderate muslims. They moderates should be able to defeat the terrorists who give them a bad name, why is not happening? Why is that even more terror groups are sprouting? Why isn't the moderate overwhelming majority cleaning up house?
    Last edited by Howard Roark; October 5th, 2014 at 01:51 PM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjmckane View Post
    Yikes, is there any way we can yank down the Damoclean Sword to cut this here Gordian knot?

    HR, I honor your service, being a 6 year vet myself. Nor did you ever say kill all Muslims, as some suggest.

    (Never have I been under fire except once in a comic communist terrorist incident in Lisbon. Yours was a very deeply different type of harsh service, for both good and triage. Like POW's 2nd or 3rd deepest sacrifice, they are both lucid in understanding of certain points of society and usually tainted with brittle ideals. The WWII PoWs often had children turn against them in the 1960's. Speaking of such, just PTSD of Rod Sterling's memory of seeing his best buddy get offed from a falling supply parachute drop is believed to be the source of his fascination of the E.A. Poe type of macabre, giving us Twilight Zone and the Night Gallery. )

    But the boy's love for the girl was out of bounds in such a society as most parts of Afghanistan at such a time. Muslims _are_ a circle of violence. So were we until not so long ago, the murder rate of the middle ages being much higher than nowadays. Theirs will be a longer trip, if ever, and several writers mention this a century back, iirc, because of the insistence in the Koran. It makes the Old Testament look like Bambi and Thumper at play, as far as I can tell. Buddhists are even milder, but still prone to occasional Aum Shinrikyo spasms. Like claiming South Vietnam would be a true democracy was a mistake (John H. Richardson), so is doing the same to Iraq or Syria a poor strategy. You as soldiers have to respect the locals traditions, be they opium poppies or killing children who change religions. They have to work these things out by themselves.

    As far as the rest of this discussion goes, I get weary. Here is some on the opposite side. As said, my solution is largely to give the Muslim countries space, and ultimately let them have options so to better choose their own path. ISIS/etc oppose that and propose with inventive means ways to force Muslims to extremes. Most Muslims want no part of it, yet have poor methods of preventing it. Like our European Allies, Muslim countries have a great tendency to fudge the problem. And many/most ordinary Muslims _are_ in favor of keeping or going back to Sharia and other extremes. Sooner or later let them go off in the deeper sorts of extremes, especially in non strategic areas and with local cultures that are unlikely to gleefully harbor international terrorists. That is the worst for the outside world, those countries tend to let in the goofy types who want to spread it overseas into non Muslim areas, especially in Afghanistan where giving refuge is especially a cultural tradition.

    Bringing the World under Its Domination? | Liberty.me

    An ultimate solution is to grow (via algae) or find very cheap sources (methane clatherates?) of oil/gas, if not invent some other complete replacement, and then let Muslims decide for themselves what they want to be. Enough Muslims in power of education and position want to avoid anarchy of the most religious and violent kinds and in the end it should sort itself out, hopefully without any kind of Richard Maybury's Chaostan.


    There are no easy solutions, just well managed decisions. A conglomerate of the above poll is in order, as the situation is seen fit, excepting genocide. All feel free to comment on my or other posts of the thread, but I leave the field to yourselves now.
    There is a sense of superiority in your this post. How do you possess authority to make decisions like "let Muslims decide for themselves".
    Should Muslims thank you for your invaluable decision. STOP interfering in Muslim countries, and I hope that all those terror groups will die immediately. But this is your business , how can you stop!
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    So say we wipe out ISIS, then another group looking to make a name for themselves will start making noise. It's like fighting the mythological hydra, all we keep doing is cutting off heads. So we need to find a way to deter the mere idea of becoming a terrorist group.
    So, how do we solve the terror groups? according to repeated claims in this thread, the terrorists are just a small fraction of the 1.6 billion strong moderate muslims. They moderates should be able to defeat the terrorists who give them a bad name, why is not happening? Why is that even more terror groups are sprouting? Why isn't the moderate overwhelming majority cleaning up house?
    -Dont support dictators in Muslim countries.
    -Train Muslim intelligence officers by/through CIA
    -Provide necessary weapons and scientific gadgets
    -Dont aid , just do business.
    -Stop Israel.
    -Respect their sovereignty.
    -Consider them as human beings!? And love can be miraculous to solve problems.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    So say we wipe out ISIS, then another group looking to make a name for themselves will start making noise. It's like fighting the mythological hydra, all we keep doing is cutting off heads. So we need to find a way to deter the mere idea of becoming a terrorist group.
    So, how do we solve the terror groups? according to repeated claims in this thread, the terrorists are just a small fraction of the 1.6 billion strong moderate muslims. They moderates should be able to defeat the terrorists who give them a bad name, why is not happening? Why is that even more terror groups are sprouting? Why isn't the moderate overwhelming majority cleaning up house?
    I've never claimed to have the answer to that question. I just know that if we keep getting involved every time a terror group pops up, we will be constantly at war. The war on terrorism is not a war that can be won like traditional wars.
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

    "It is easy to kill someone with a slash of a sword. It is hard to be impossible for others to cut down"
    - Yagyu Munenori

    "Only a warrior chooses pacifism; others are condemned to it."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by precious siraj View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    So say we wipe out ISIS, then another group looking to make a name for themselves will start making noise. It's like fighting the mythological hydra, all we keep doing is cutting off heads. So we need to find a way to deter the mere idea of becoming a terrorist group.
    So, how do we solve the terror groups? according to repeated claims in this thread, the terrorists are just a small fraction of the 1.6 billion strong moderate muslims. They moderates should be able to defeat the terrorists who give them a bad name, why is not happening? Why is that even more terror groups are sprouting? Why isn't the moderate overwhelming majority cleaning up house?
    -Dont support dictators in Muslim countries.
    -Train Muslim intelligence officers by/through CIA
    -Provide necessary weapons and scientific gadgets
    Isn't that what have been done in Pakistan? How did is stop the rise and florishment of taliban, the Pakistani invention? How did it stop osama living in Pakistan for so many years. Where did the moderate muslims fight to get rid of the terrorists?


    -Stop Israel.
    What is your obsession with Israel? We are talking muslim moderates fighting eradicate muslim terrorists. Try to stay on topic.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    So say we wipe out ISIS, then another group looking to make a name for themselves will start making noise. It's like fighting the mythological hydra, all we keep doing is cutting off heads. So we need to find a way to deter the mere idea of becoming a terrorist group.
    So, how do we solve the terror groups? according to repeated claims in this thread, the terrorists are just a small fraction of the 1.6 billion strong moderate muslims. They moderates should be able to defeat the terrorists who give them a bad name, why is not happening? Why is that even more terror groups are sprouting? Why isn't the moderate overwhelming majority cleaning up house?
    I've never claimed to have the answer to that question. I just know that if we keep getting involved every time a terror group pops up, we will be constantly at war. The war on terrorism is not a war that can be won like traditional wars.
    I am asking the members of these group why doesn't the overwhelming majority of "moderate" muslims take over in the war against the "tiny" minority of terrorists that gives them a bad name. After all, at 1.6 billion strong, they shouldn't have any problem cleaning their own house.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    So say we wipe out ISIS, then another group looking to make a name for themselves will start making noise. It's like fighting the mythological hydra, all we keep doing is cutting off heads. So we need to find a way to deter the mere idea of becoming a terrorist group.
    So, how do we solve the terror groups? according to repeated claims in this thread, the terrorists are just a small fraction of the 1.6 billion strong moderate muslims. They moderates should be able to defeat the terrorists who give them a bad name, why is not happening? Why is that even more terror groups are sprouting? Why isn't the moderate overwhelming majority cleaning up house?
    I've never claimed to have the answer to that question. I just know that if we keep getting involved every time a terror group pops up, we will be constantly at war. The war on terrorism is not a war that can be won like traditional wars.
    I am asking the members of these group why doesn't the overwhelming majority of "moderate" muslims take over in the war against the "tiny" minority of terrorists that gives them a bad name. After all, at 1.6 billion strong, they shouldn't have any problem cleaning their own house.

    It's not like all 1.6 billion of them live in the Levant region. You make it sound like all the other Muslims are in positions where they can just surround IS/ISIS/ISIL and take them down. Also how you worded the part I put in bold makes it sound like you suspect that every Muslim may either be a member of IS or a sympathizer.

    While we're thinking along these lines, why doesn't the African continent just dispose of the warlords there?
    "For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled." Hunter S Thompson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    So say we wipe out ISIS, then another group looking to make a name for themselves will start making noise. It's like fighting the mythological hydra, all we keep doing is cutting off heads. So we need to find a way to deter the mere idea of becoming a terrorist group.
    So, how do we solve the terror groups? according to repeated claims in this thread, the terrorists are just a small fraction of the 1.6 billion strong moderate muslims. They moderates should be able to defeat the terrorists who give them a bad name, why is not happening? Why is that even more terror groups are sprouting? Why isn't the moderate overwhelming majority cleaning up house?
    I've never claimed to have the answer to that question. I just know that if we keep getting involved every time a terror group pops up, we will be constantly at war. The war on terrorism is not a war that can be won like traditional wars.
    I am asking the members of these group why doesn't the overwhelming majority of "moderate" muslims take over in the war against the "tiny" minority of terrorists that gives them a bad name. After all, at 1.6 billion strong, they shouldn't have any problem cleaning their own house.

    It's not like all 1.6 billion of them live in the Levant region.
    Not a valid argument, pick any other region.

    You make it sound like all the other Muslims are in positions where they can just surround IS/ISIS/ISIL and take them down.
    The claim is that only one small fraction of muslims are terrorists. Why doesn't the majority take down the "minuscule" minority?


    Also how you worded the part I put in bold makes it sound like you suspect that every Muslim may either be a member of IS or a sympathizer.
    I am simply asking a question. The silence is deafening.


    While we're thinking along these lines, why doesn't the African continent just dispose of the warlords there?
    Stay on topic, we are talking the small minority of muslim terrorists. You want to talk African warlords, open a different thread, please.
    Last edited by Howard Roark; October 5th, 2014 at 07:55 PM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Also how you worded the part I put in bold makes it sound like you suspect that every Muslim may either be a member of IS or a sympathizer.
    I am simply asking a question.
    Have you stopped abusing children?
    I am simply asking a question.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    So say we wipe out ISIS, then another group looking to make a name for themselves will start making noise. It's like fighting the mythological hydra, all we keep doing is cutting off heads. So we need to find a way to deter the mere idea of becoming a terrorist group.
    So, how do we solve the terror groups? according to repeated claims in this thread, the terrorists are just a small fraction of the 1.6 billion strong moderate muslims. They moderates should be able to defeat the terrorists who give them a bad name, why is not happening? Why is that even more terror groups are sprouting? Why isn't the moderate overwhelming majority cleaning up house?
    I've never claimed to have the answer to that question. I just know that if we keep getting involved every time a terror group pops up, we will be constantly at war. The war on terrorism is not a war that can be won like traditional wars.
    I am asking the members of these group why doesn't the overwhelming majority of "moderate" muslims take over in the war against the "tiny" minority of terrorists that gives them a bad name. After all, at 1.6 billion strong, they shouldn't have any problem cleaning their own house.

    It's not like all 1.6 billion of them live in the Levant region.
    Not a valid argument, pick any other region.

    You make it sound like all the other Muslims are in positions where they can just surround IS/ISIS/ISIL and take them down.
    The claim is that only one small fraction of muslims are terrorists. Why doesn't the majority take down the "minuscule" minority?


    Also how you worded the part I put in bold makes it sound like you suspect that every Muslim may either be a member of IS or a sympathizer.
    I am simply asking a question. The silence is deafening.


    While we're thinking along these lines, why doesn't the African continent just dispose of the warlords there?
    Stay on topic, we are talking the small minority of muslim terrorists.
    Why don't most Christians do something about Christian countries that imprison and frequently kill gay people? Or assault various groups, (gays, racial groups, Jews,) within their own countries? There's plenty of neo-nazi or white supremacist groups in America. Most are Christian. Other Christians don't eliminate them. Even in times when these groups were more active then they are now, murdering prominent Jewish figures and black advocates, most Christians did nothing about them.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Falconer360 View Post
    So say we wipe out ISIS, then another group looking to make a name for themselves will start making noise. It's like fighting the mythological hydra, all we keep doing is cutting off heads. So we need to find a way to deter the mere idea of becoming a terrorist group.
    So, how do we solve the terror groups? according to repeated claims in this thread, the terrorists are just a small fraction of the 1.6 billion strong moderate muslims. They moderates should be able to defeat the terrorists who give them a bad name, why is not happening? Why is that even more terror groups are sprouting? Why isn't the moderate overwhelming majority cleaning up house?
    I've never claimed to have the answer to that question. I just know that if we keep getting involved every time a terror group pops up, we will be constantly at war. The war on terrorism is not a war that can be won like traditional wars.
    I am asking the members of these group why doesn't the overwhelming majority of "moderate" muslims take over in the war against the "tiny" minority of terrorists that gives them a bad name. After all, at 1.6 billion strong, they shouldn't have any problem cleaning their own house.

    It's not like all 1.6 billion of them live in the Levant region.
    Not a valid argument, pick any other region.

    You make it sound like all the other Muslims are in positions where they can just surround IS/ISIS/ISIL and take them down.
    The claim is that only one small fraction of muslims are terrorists. Why doesn't the majority take down the "minuscule" minority?


    Also how you worded the part I put in bold makes it sound like you suspect that every Muslim may either be a member of IS or a sympathizer.
    I am simply asking a question. The silence is deafening.


    While we're thinking along these lines, why doesn't the African continent just dispose of the warlords there?
    Stay on topic, we are talking the small minority of muslim terrorists.
    Why don't most Christians do something about Christian countries that imprison and frequently kill gay people?
    Err, last I checked being gay was punishable by deat (or long prison terms) in quite a fe muslim countries, not so much in Christian countries. Please do not change the goalposts, take your grievances against Christianity in another thread, this thread is about muslim terrorism.

    Or assault various groups, (gays, racial groups, Jews,) within their own countries? There's plenty of neo-nazi or white supremacist groups in America. Most are Christian. Other Christians don't eliminate them. Even in times when these groups were more active then they are now, murdering prominent Jewish figures and black advocates, most Christians did nothing about them.
    Please stay on topic, the question is about the muslim majority taking action against the "minuscule" minority of muslim terrorists. Please do not try to change the discussion.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I am asking the members of these group why doesn't the overwhelming majority of "moderate" muslims take over in the war against the "tiny" minority of terrorists that gives them a bad name. After all, at 1.6 billion strong, they shouldn't have any problem cleaning their own house.

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark
    Please stay on topic, the question is about the muslim majority taking action against the "minuscule" minority of muslim terrorists. Please do not try to change the discussion.
    Like you are asking why don't they volunteer to be boots on the ground against ISIS? That's what I'd like to see too.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Also how you worded the part I put in bold makes it sound like you suspect that every Muslim may either be a member of IS or a sympathizer.
    I am simply asking a question.
    Have you stopped abusing children?
    I am simply asking a question.

    Loaded question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    So, what is the answer? Why isn't the muslim overwhelming majority doing away with the terrorist "minority"?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I am asking the members of these group why doesn't the overwhelming majority of "moderate" muslims take over in the war against the "tiny" minority of terrorists that gives them a bad name. After all, at 1.6 billion strong, they shouldn't have any problem cleaning their own house.

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark
    Please stay on topic, the question is about the muslim majority taking action against the "minuscule" minority of muslim terrorists. Please do not try to change the discussion.
    Like you are asking why don't they volunteer to be boots on the ground against ISIS? That's what I'd like to see too.
    Wonder why.....
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Please stay on topic, the question is about the muslim majority taking action against the "minuscule" minority of muslim terrorists. Please do not try to change the discussion.
    Have you not been following the whole Uganda debacle? It's been everywhere.

    Further, it is completely relevant. You are asking why Muslims don't get rid of the extremist branch. Other religions, including Christianity, are equally bad at policing their own extremists. So withdraw the point, accept that it's the same when Christians do it, or explain why its different. Why are Muslims expected to police their own but Christians aren't? This is one hundred percent on topic. If I said, "Islam the worst religion because it asks its followers to give up portions of their hard earned wages," saying, "Many religions do this." it would be a relevant point. How is not policing their extremists a Muslim problem, not a problem of all ideologies?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by SowZ37 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Please stay on topic, the question is about the muslim majority taking action against the "minuscule" minority of muslim terrorists. Please do not try to change the discussion.
    Have you not been following the whole Uganda debacle? It's been everywhere.
    Please stay on topic, stop trying to divert the thread.
     

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