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Thread: U.S. sends B-2 bombers to South Korea

  1. #1 U.S. sends B-2 bombers to South Korea 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    SEOUL (AP) — In a show of force following weeks of North Korean bluster, the U.S. on Thursday took the unprecedented step of announcing that two of its nuclear-capable B-2 bombers dropped munitions on a South Korean island as part of joint military drills.
    The announcement is likely to further enrage Pyongyang, which has already issued a flood of ominous statements to highlight displeasure over the drills and United Nations sanctions over its nuclear test last month. But there were signs Thursday that it is willing to go only so far.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=sending%20b-2%20bombers%20to%20south%20korea&source=web&cd=1&c ad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww. usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Fworld%2F2013%2F03%2F 28%2Fus-b-2-bombers-south-korea%2F2027607%2F&ei=ZF5UUfXsGI3o8gT2qoGwCw&usg=A FQjCNEHZ1CUB30C_fDUlGVt9AyeEVMhew



    So instead of just using more words of war our president spends more money sending stealth bombers to South Korea, that's not going to do much when all North Korea is doing is using words to get everyone upset.

    Instead the president should just say to North Korea...BRING IT ON! That way it would put the burden of the North's rhetoric on public display for non actionable phrases it is always spewing forth so that the media enjoys spreading this nonsense everywhere they can. The media should also just stop spreading the North Korean war mongering but then it wouldn't have any sensational remarks to publish so readers get all upset.


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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Instead the president should just say to North Korea...BRING IT ON! That way it would put the burden of the North's rhetoric on public display for non actionable phrases it is always spewing forth so that the media enjoys spreading this nonsense everywhere they can. The media should also just stop spreading the North Korean war mongering but then it wouldn't have any sensational remarks to publish so readers get all upset.
    Wouldn't "bring it on" push them into a potentially untenable position?
    Lose face or start a war...
    Never a good idea to force a crazed rat into a corner.
    Sending B2s is cheaper (and less politically damaging) than any war would be and doesn't put the US into a "use it or lose it" situation.


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  4. #3  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    But America should back him down because everyone knows he does like his dad, rattle the swords of war , to attract attention. By stating bring it on,America would do the exact same thing that North Korea is doing, using words to get attention. America already has an entire carrier fleet over there plus missile batteries and anti missile batteries and the South has a very well trained and armed military too. That isn't getting the message across so by adding a few bombers to that mix won't really back him down.

    Either put up or shut up is what the President should say and mean it.
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    Chest puffing vs Posturing.

    Still, I'd take a couple B-2s over a 1970s computer and a bunch of artillery aimed into the ocean.

    My hope is that China realizes they don't want a war on their porch and tells NK to knock it off.
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    The US hangers some B-2 Bombers at Andersen Force Base in Guam, so it a relatively short trip to Korea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    But America should back him down because everyone knows he does like his dad, rattle the swords of war , to attract attention. By stating bring it on,America would do the exact same thing that North Korea is doing, using words to get attention. America already has an entire carrier fleet over there plus missile batteries and anti missile batteries and the South has a very well trained and armed military too. That isn't getting the message across so by adding a few bombers to that mix won't really back him down.

    Either put up or shut up is what the President should say and mean it.
    So American...

    Why not just ignore him?
    The way one ignores a noisy attention-seeking child?
    Getting into a shouting match with an idiot is not really a pastime one wants to be involved in - especially on the world stage.
    Besides "Put up or shut up" is an ultimatum - that would make the US the "bad guy".

    The US and realpolitik don't exactly see eye to eye.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Then don't send anything and say nothing would be better. Let them only think that it was sent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    But America should back him down because everyone knows he does like his dad, rattle the swords of war , to attract attention. By stating bring it on,America would do the exact same thing that North Korea is doing, using words to get attention. America already has an entire carrier fleet over there plus missile batteries and anti missile batteries and the South has a very well trained and armed military too. That isn't getting the message across so by adding a few bombers to that mix won't really back him down.

    Either put up or shut up is what the President should say and mean it.
    So American...

    Why not just ignore him?
    The way one ignores a noisy attention-seeking child?
    Getting into a shouting match with an idiot is not really a pastime one wants to be involved in - especially on the world stage.
    Besides "Put up or shut up" is an ultimatum - that would make the US the "bad guy".

    The US and realpolitik don't exactly see eye to eye.

    Exchanging empty threats and posturing and puffing never gets anyone anywhere. This is seen regularly on this forum. the 911 conspiracy threads for instance. When people have an agenda they never put up or shut up.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post

    So American...

    Why not just ignore him?
    The way one ignores a noisy attention-seeking child?
    Getting into a shouting match with an idiot is not really a pastime one wants to be involved in - especially on the world stage.
    Besides "Put up or shut up" is an ultimatum - that would make the US the "bad guy".

    The US and realpolitik don't exactly see eye to eye.
    Most of us aren't taking Un seriously here. He's put out a lot of propaganda about how Americans all live in trash cans and drink coffee made of snow and stuff like that. He's a joke here. I imagine he's a joke universally except to South Korea.
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    From the article linked in the O.P.:
    North Korea sank the South Korean naval corvette Cheonan south of the maritime boundary, killing 46 sailors. That year it also attacked Yeonpyeong Island with artillery, killing four South Koreans and destroying 70 homes and buildings.
    Why did they do that?
    North Korea in recent weeks cut other phone and fax hotlines with South Korea's Red Cross and with the American-led U.N. Command at the border
    It's like a child.

    The most I have gotten out of this thread is British attitudes against U.S. attitudes (Mind referring to U.S. citizens as "Americans," by the way, the Americas covers two continents and a hell of a lot of non U.S. countries.) and a general air that the U.S. president somehow is at fault for showing might rather than boasting about it.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    and a general air that the U.S. president somehow is at fault for showing might rather than boasting about it.
    Like North Korea is always doing but they do both. That's why I said what I did, use words like North Korea does. it seems that's all they do anyway and have done for over 50 years now. Seems the more they boast the more attention is paid to them so call their bluff and see them back off.
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    America should just do the world a favour and get rid of the North Korean leadership, the people there are treated like crap, the country is being run by a dynasty of nutters who are just jeopardizing world security. North Korea is a complete menace and needs to be delt with before they really do develop nuclear weapons that can actually pose a serious threat. Even if China is unhappy if NK gets delt with I can't see them doing a lot about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    and a general air that the U.S. president somehow is at fault for showing might rather than boasting about it.
    Like North Korea is always doing but they do both. That's why I said what I did, use words like North Korea does. it seems that's all they do anyway and have done for over 50 years now. Seems the more they boast the more attention is paid to them so call their bluff and see them back off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    and a general air that the U.S. president somehow is at fault for showing might rather than boasting about it.
    Nah, deeds not words.
    That's what's effective.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    and a general air that the U.S. president somehow is at fault for showing might rather than boasting about it.
    Nah, deeds not words.
    That's what's effective.
    As I have stated there's more military muscle in South Korea with both American and South Korea having a very large contingency of much more in military but do not show it off. So if the North shows its might and so does the South just how can that shut him up, that's why they should just call his bluff or he will continue to take up the medias attention forever. He also will get more aid, remember when America sent him billions in aid to cease the building of the reactors and sent food that his father gave to his troops and not to the general public who are still not doing so good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post

    So American...

    Why not just ignore him?
    The way one ignores a noisy attention-seeking child?
    Getting into a shouting match with an idiot is not really a pastime one wants to be involved in - especially on the world stage.
    Besides "Put up or shut up" is an ultimatum - that would make the US the "bad guy".

    The US and realpolitik don't exactly see eye to eye.
    Most of us aren't taking Un seriously here. He's put out a lot of propaganda about how Americans all live in trash cans and drink coffee made of snow and stuff like that. He's a joke here. I imagine he's a joke universally except to South Korea.
    according to the south koreans i know, he's a joke there too.
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    Now now now, maybe they're just doing airshows in $2 billion stealth bombers......
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    So they only said they sent a B-2 there and back to make a bombing run, that's enough and much better than actually stationing any of our top secret stuff near the North. Look at the new leader, seems like he is following in his dad's footsteps for whenever his dad needed money he would always throw a temper tantrum as now his son is doing. I wonder how the North earns any income for they don't sell anything but only bully others to give them money then they keep getting money saying the same threats over and over.

    It is time to call his bluff and stop this nonsense about starting a war because he knows he can't win but will be given aid if he yells loud enough.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    America should just do the world a favour and get rid of the North Korean leadership, the people there are treated like crap, the country is being run by a dynasty of nutters who are just jeopardizing world security. North Korea is a complete menace and needs to be delt with before they really do develop nuclear weapons that can actually pose a serious threat. Even if China is unhappy if NK gets delt with I can't see them doing a lot about it.
    We're not the world police. We can't afford to be, nor should we assume that role. If Un does something stupid, he will most definitely have actions taken against him. I don't think he's that stupid. He cares more about being a little man in charge of his backwards little nation than he does about fighting some righteous war against the US.

    His biggest worry should be China getting upset with his antics. Right now, I don't think they're all that interested in getting involved, but if he manages to drag US warships and troops to their borders, they will not hesitate to take action. The last thing they want is a valid reason for a US presence on their doorstep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    America should just do the world a favour and get rid of the North Korean leadership, the people there are treated like crap, the country is being run by a dynasty of nutters who are just jeopardizing world security. North Korea is a complete menace and needs to be delt with before they really do develop nuclear weapons that can actually pose a serious threat. Even if China is unhappy if NK gets delt with I can't see them doing a lot about it.
    We're not the world police. We can't afford to be, nor should we assume that role. If Un does something stupid, he will most definitely have actions taken against him. I don't think he's that stupid. He cares more about being a little man in charge of his backwards little nation than he does about fighting some righteous war against the US.

    His biggest worry should be China getting upset with his antics. Right now, I don't think they're all that interested in getting involved, but if he manages to drag US warships and troops to their borders, they will not hesitate to take action. The last thing they want is a valid reason for a US presence on their doorstep.

    Hey you were talking out of actual sense and a correct sensible approach, I was just talking out of annoyance and frustration with North Korea and their poxy family of dictators who have no respect for their own people, keep threatening everyone else and are developing nuclear weapons.
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    Don't get me wrong, if they had the military capability, I'd love to see Japan roll up on NK and put an end to this. Un's people deserve better and I don't think that nation is so unstable as to be susceptible to warlords taking over like you get in the middle east.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Don't get me wrong, if they had the military capability, I'd love to see Japan roll up on NK and put an end to this. Un's people deserve better and I don't think that nation is so unstable as to be susceptible to warlords taking over like you get in the middle east.
    South Korea is very capable of holding its own today with the aid of American weapons that they have. South Korea is very strong weapon wise just lacks the manpower is all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    South Korea is very capable of holding its own today with the aid of American weapons that they have. South Korea is very strong weapon wise just lacks the manpower is all.
    Not even remotely. I've seen North Koreas facilities.
    I'm sure other members on the board who served have been to Korea as well, including weapon facility inspections and liaison missions.
    The majority of their equipment is old. It is serviceable, but outdated. "American" weapons? Hand me downs that were sold off to recover a fraction of cost.

    If Korea decided to wage war on most any nation, it would be in for major losses.

    Now, I'm not saying they are weak.

    I am saying they are not powerful winners, either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    South Korea is very capable of holding its own today with the aid of American weapons that they have. South Korea is very strong weapon wise just lacks the manpower is all.
    Not even remotely. I've seen North Koreas facilities.
    I'm sure other members on the board who served have been to Korea as well, including weapon facility inspections and liaison missions.
    The majority of their equipment is old. It is serviceable, but outdated. "American" weapons? Hand me downs that were sold off to recover a fraction of cost.

    If Korea decided to wage war on most any nation, it would be in for major losses.

    Now, I'm not saying they are weak.

    I am saying they are not powerful winners, either.
    But the South has access to American support if anything ever does happen, that's my point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Don't get me wrong, if they had the military capability, I'd love to see Japan roll up on NK and put an end to this. Un's people deserve better and I don't think that nation is so unstable as to be susceptible to warlords taking over like you get in the middle east.
    South Korea is very capable of holding its own today with the aid of American weapons that they have. South Korea is very strong weapon wise just lacks the manpower is all.
    I agree. In fact there's a well supported belief among both American and ROK military officers that after the initial destructive several days it would be no contest with SK achieving rapid victory against its badly antiquated and poorly trained NK forces. The Americans for decades have been just as much a deterrent for SK moving North as for an NK attack for decades. The big unknown is whether China would intervene as they did in the 1950's phase of this war.
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    [QUOTE=Lynx_Fox;407474]
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Don't get me wrong, if they had the military capability, I'd love to see Japan roll up on NK and put an end to this. Un's people deserve better and I don't think that nation is so unstable as to be susceptible to warlords taking over like you get in the middle east.
    South Korea is very capable of holding its own today with the aid of American weapons that they have. South Korea is very strong weapon wise just lacks the manpower is all.
    The big unknown is whether China would intervene as they did in the 1950's phase of this war.
    China won't get that involved because it hasn't been on that great of terms with the North for awhile now. Even Russia won't get very upset because the North owes them a great deal of back pay for goods they were sold but didn't get everything they were asking for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    But the South has access to American support if anything ever does happen, that's my point.
    I'm sorry, Cosmo, I am a complete freaking idiot.
    Somehow, my brain injected "North" where you had said, "South."

    My only redeeming virtue is that I know my left from my right...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    But the South has access to American support if anything ever does happen, that's my point.
    I'm sorry, Cosmo, I am a complete freaking idiot.
    Somehow, my brain injected "North" where you had said, "South."

    My only redeeming virtue is that I know my left from my right...
    You'll be just fine , just lie down and rest for awhile. To much time on this internet can do strange things to ones mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post

    So American...

    Why not just ignore him?
    The way one ignores a noisy attention-seeking child?
    Getting into a shouting match with an idiot is not really a pastime one wants to be involved in - especially on the world stage.
    Besides "Put up or shut up" is an ultimatum - that would make the US the "bad guy".

    The US and realpolitik don't exactly see eye to eye.
    Most of us aren't taking Un seriously here. He's put out a lot of propaganda about how Americans all live in trash cans and drink coffee made of snow and stuff like that. He's a joke here. I imagine he's a joke universally except to South Korea.
    I never thought about making coffee flavored snow cones. Thanks for the idea.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Another day that as I suspected , nothing happened. No missile launches, no armed invasion. This guy is really showing the world what he is really made up of, all bullshit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    America should just do the world a favour and get rid of the North Korean leadership, the people there are treated like crap, the country is being run by a dynasty of nutters who are just jeopardizing world security. North Korea is a complete menace and needs to be delt with before they really do develop nuclear weapons that can actually pose a serious threat. Even if China is unhappy if NK gets delt with I can't see them doing a lot about it.
    Honestly, I think America has taken the responsibility to depose crappy leaders many times more often than they should. Many people demand that America get rid of the bad guys but then bitch constantly how we go about doing it and then criticize us for not being nice enough in how we rid the world of yet another annoying bastard with control issues. Then to put a cherry on top, we get called a bully by the very people who demanded we take action on behalf of the world and the poor victimized citizens of the country we just freed.

    Americans got their freedom because a relative few had the guts and gusto to take action against all odds. Sure we had help eventually but only because we impressed other nations with our tenacity. I seriously doubt that France would have wasted their resources to help us in our fight if they didn't see that we had the vigor to push on til the end or die fighting. They would not have wasted their resources to help people that weren't absolutely certain they were willing to pay the price for freedom.

    And yet here we are bailing out people who don't even care enough to be free to help themselves. They don't want us to just free them, they want us to hand over everything they need to live in the paradise they THINK we live in. They don't seem to understand that becoming free means hitting rock bottom before you can start to rebuild and that pride is made of blood, sweat and tears. We can not give them pride in who they are. Only they can do that. THEY must free themselves. THEY must be willing to do whatever it takes to become free. THEY must be willing to forsake everything for freedom's sake. THEY must be willing to stand in the middle of the rubble and say, "NOW, LET US rebuild this nation and make it what WE desire for ourselves. And let no one EVER force us to live in a manner against our wills again.

    Only when they have paid for their freedom with their own blood, forsaking all that they own and know, will they appreciate and protect that freedom. If we free them, and then build it for them and give them a government, then they are simply trading one unwanted lifestyle for another that they had no say in creating. Why should they want that?
    Last edited by seagypsy; March 30th, 2013 at 08:03 PM.
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    [QUOTE=cosmictraveler;407475]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Don't get me wrong, if they had the military capability, I'd love to see Japan roll up on NK and put an end to this. Un's people deserve better and I don't think that nation is so unstable as to be susceptible to warlords taking over like you get in the middle east.
    South Korea is very capable of holding its own today with the aid of American weapons that they have. South Korea is very strong weapon wise just lacks the manpower is all.
    The big unknown is whether China would intervene as they did in the 1950's phase of this war.
    China won't get that involved because it hasn't been on that great of terms with the North for awhile now. Even Russia won't get very upset because the North owes them a great deal of back pay for goods they were sold but didn't get everything they were asking for.
    Yeah, I doubt Russia would even consider intervening on N. Korea's behalf... But China? I worked with some Chinese immigrants for a while, one of them was only in these parts for about year. As he put it, the Chinese can't be bothered to even think about N. Korea - but the government? They more-or-less seem to feel obligated. I think the Chinese would step up to bat for N. Korea, regardless of whether or not they actually wanted to, and regardless of whether or not it's self-interest. Then again, that's just what I was told.
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    North Korea is testing China’s patience

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...HnHEN2LnCTJ7nw
    Last edited by cosmictraveler; April 1st, 2013 at 05:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j View Post
    I think the Chinese would step up to bat for N. Korea, regardless of whether or not they actually wanted to, and regardless of whether or not it's self-interest. Then again, that's just what I was told.
    I think that's not likely, especially not if the US was to get involved in the conflict. China knows better than to jeopardize access to one of its biggest foreign markets for exports. The choice for them will be between its relations to on outdated regime, and billions worth of annual exports to the US. There is little to no political and economic benefit for China in having the DPRK at its doorstep, especially not if it behaves as it currently does.

    Seriously, I think the actual risk of the DPRK starting an armed conflict is pretty low. They have a huge army in terms of manpower, but their equipment and hardware in general is desparately outdated and inefficient. Kim is not as stupid so as to forget that he stands no chance in a real war. A rekindled conflict on the Korean peninsula would mean the end of the DPRK, even though they could potentially do serious damage to parts of South Korea in the process. Kim's only agenda in all this is to establish himself as a 'strong man' in the eyes of his own people. He has much to prove in order to consolidate his power domestically, but he will not risk the destruction of his own regime.
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    Again another day passes and we still see nothing happened. This guy isn't much of a "leader" more of a windbag!
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    Off topic

    Several people have bunged up their quotes of other posts. Can everyone skim over their own posts and correct the quotes so that the comments are attributed to the right people and for readability sake. the thread is becoming a bit of a mess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stander-j View Post
    I think the Chinese would step up to bat for N. Korea, regardless of whether or not they actually wanted to, and regardless of whether or not it's self-interest. Then again, that's just what I was told.
    I think that's not likely, especially not if the US was to get involved in the conflict. China knows better than to jeopardize access to one of its biggest foreign markets for exports. The choice for them will be between its relations to on outdated regime, and billions worth of annual exports to the US. There is little to no political and economic benefit for China in having the DPRK at its doorstep, especially not if it behaves as it currently does.

    Seriously, I think the actual risk of the DPRK starting an armed conflict is pretty low. They have a huge army in terms of manpower, but their equipment and hardware in general is desparately outdated and inefficient. Kim is not as stupid so as to forget that he stands no chance in a real war. A rekindled conflict on the Korean peninsula would mean the end of the DPRK, even though they could potentially do serious damage to parts of South Korea in the process. Kim's only agenda in all this is to establish himself as a 'strong man' in the eyes of his own people. He has much to prove in order to consolidate his power domestically, but he will not risk the destruction of his own regime.
    I too would not suspect North Korea of ever actually trying anything. Cosmic gave a pretty stellar link about the grievances between China and NK, I never knew there was a growing hostility between them. What I tend to wonder how often it stops being about backing a country, and start's being about making a statement. Just as an example, if we assumed China would back North Korea - and North Korea never intended to actually break the cease-fire, would it make any difference? I think instances like that become a nice way for nations to advertise themselves as big and strong and unafraid of the other big strong nations. If I were a country, I wouldn't have to sympathize with the DPRK in order to admire China - I'd just have to dislike the United States more than I am annoyed by North Korea. But in light of what Cosmic posted, I think I'm inclined to agree that China probably wouldn't back N. Korea whatsoever.
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    Another day and no attacks, this is getting old I do hope the media stop playing up to him for they look as foolish as the North does.
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    Now the North only says it is going to restart their nuclear program, which they said they would not after being given billions of dollars in aid to help them. What a man this guy is, he can't even keep the word of his dead father, repulsive to me.
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    So he doesn't even have any resupply of arms after he launches his only missile, after that he won't be hearing many "explosions" for he won't be with us any longer.
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    The concern that he will actually expend his payload and start a war seems minimal. I'd be more concerned about him selling arms or harboring other enemies of the US.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    So he doesn't even have any resupply of arms after he launches his only missile, after that he won't be hearing many "explosions" for he won't be with us any longer.
    If I may say so, nothing is, as it seems. I am sure there is more behind the scene that we are seeing. China is no fool, nor is Russia, nor is Iran, or India, or Pakistan.
    As you know weapons alone cannot be the only line of defense. It is utter madness to think there is no one left to realize a war, no matter where or who started it will benefit no one. How can you say that NK is not encouraged into pushing the UN and The USA to make moves that will not benefit them? Do you think it costs nothing to move all those weapons and humans around?

    Relying on WMD can give a false notion of security. Atomic bombs cannot stop time. To some extent, I think the US is making the right moves, as they do not have many choices. However, the media is not helping since they are intoxicated with this kind of matter.
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    . How can you say that NK is not encouraged into pushing the UN and The USA to make moves that will not benefit them?
    What moves are you talking about?

    Just because NK moved 2 missile batteries up to the "front lines" doesn't mean anything because NK troops remain where they were stationed, many miles away and they have not been moving anywhere. This is only talk to get more MONEY to NK in their economic troubles instead of trying to just build things and sell them as Russia, China and other nations are doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Mind referring to U.S. citizens as "Americans," by the way, the Americas covers two continents and a hell of a lot of non U.S. countries.
    There was a thread (on another forum?) where some Canadians were saying, "hey, don't call us Americans. We are not part of the USA."

    Seems you can't please everybody.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    . How can you say that NK is not encouraged into pushing the UN and The USA to make moves that will not benefit them?
    What moves are you talking about?

    Just because NK moved 2 missile batteries up to the "front lines" doesn't mean anything because NK troops remain where they were stationed, many miles away and they have not been moving anywhere. This is only talk to get more MONEY to NK in their economic troubles instead of trying to just build things and sell them as Russia, China and other nations are doing.
    What I meant was the movement of weapons on both sides cost money.
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    Well today was supposed to be the missile fire day but alas nothing has been launched except more propaganda from the North. It is getting rather old hearing the same diatribe coming from the North daily, I do hope the media will stop overexposing this situation and let all this just stop being talked about. I mean it has been over 2 weeks that the media has warned us that North Korea was going to start a war and as yet not even a shot has been fired by them and their military sits in its barracks doing the same thing it did yesterday and will do tomorrow.
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    I've found an interesting generational gap with respect to NK. Most my age are hardly paying any attention and see NK threats as just one more non-credible event of a 50+ year war. Younger people seem far more concerned and see it as a threat for war.
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    Just saw another news report last night about how so many people are starving in North Korea. It seems that some are so desperate to escape that country and when they do the tails of inhuman treatment and starvation are appualing. All this in a nation that goes around threatening all and sundry with nuclear attack.
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    Propaganda swings both ways doesn't it?
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    I hope those two B-2 Bombers were gift wrapped properly.
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    I'm not sure why the idea of low-key execution hasn't happened yet. Those little secret squirrel agents you see on tv in suits are in fact real. Black Water, MI6, CIA, KGB. They are definitly still very active. This begs the question, If we, or anyone for that matter, have not utilized these forces, Then what exactly is NOT being publicized? Why is the NK gov't's life still preserved? Something of a beneficial nature to either NK, or another country is creating a secret mutual agreement. It is extremely likely considering the low quality government auditing capabilities in those countries
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    I still do not understand why America is trying to get China to do something when they are not the ones being threatened. Why bring them into the fray when it was Russia who supplies the North with most of its nuclear reactor materials not China.

    I do not comprehend why China should be used during this problem other than thanking them for saying things to the North Koreans that admonishes their actions. As I said nothing has been done by the North other than having the media write things that it enjoys seeing. The media is making a bad problem worse by reporting everything the North says, which by now should be seen as dogma and rhetoric.
    Last edited by cosmictraveler; April 16th, 2013 at 07:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machonecustoms View Post
    I'm not sure why the idea of low-key execution hasn't happened yet. Those little secret squirrel agents you see on tv in suits are in fact real. Black Water, MI6, CIA, KGB. They are definitly still very active. This begs the question, If we, or anyone for that matter, have not utilized these forces, Then what exactly is NOT being publicized? Why is the NK gov't's life still preserved? Something of a beneficial nature to either NK, or another country is creating a secret mutual agreement. It is extremely likely considering the low quality government auditing capabilities in those countries
    Because there would be terrible reprisals? Because the leader of NK would be replaced with one promising hell fire and bloody brimstone to an enraged population?

    NK can't target the US, so it would strike US allies in the region. Macho posturing is easy, sounds simple until you get a 3rd party killed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    I still do not understand why America is trying to get China to do something when they are not the ones being threatened. Why bring them into the fray when it was Russia who supplies the North with most of its nuclear reactor materials not China.

    I do not comprehend why China should be used during this problem other than thanking them for saying things to the North Koreans that admonishes their actions. As I said nothing has been done by the North other than having the media write things that it enjoys seeing. The media is making a bad problem worse by reporting everything the North says, which by now should be seen as dogma and rhetoric.
    I think China does not want a war in thier backyard. Personally I think China knows what is going on and knows NK is postering. I don't care, a war will be useful to no one. its not a matter of WMD, once they start fighting there will be a price to pay for all of us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    I still do not understand why America is trying to get China to do something when they are not the ones being threatened. Why bring them into the fray when it was Russia who supplies the North with most of its nuclear reactor materials not China.
    It’s China that’s keeping North Korea on a life support machine. China is where North Korea is getting its trade. So if China pulls the plug, then that’ll be the end of the DPRK. Therefore the US are right to keep pleading to China to rein in N. Korea.

    But the current North Korean and Chinese relationship is a puzzle for me. I can understand why China hadn’t pulled the plug in the past. For Chinese perspective during the cold war, the DPRK used to be an ideological buffer zone between communism and democracy but that buffer now seems obsolete due to advances in military technology, communication, trade and China’s warming relations with the rest of the international community, including South Korea. DPRK is a past relic of the cold war that’s no longer appears relevant to China in anyway but create tension in the peninsula. And so we read about China trying to reform North Korea slowly to their own image but so far North Korea isn’t interested.

    I don’t know if China has a plan B but the status quo surly can’t last forever, both countries are becoming more and more polarized economically and ideologically and if China leave it till North Korea have nuclear war heads and the DPRK finally collapses then what? North Korean refugees flooding into their country could be the least of their worries.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapples View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    I still do not understand why America is trying to get China to do something when they are not the ones being threatened. Why bring them into the fray when it was Russia who supplies the North with most of its nuclear reactor materials not China.
    It’s China that’s keeping North Korea on a life support machine. China is where North Korea is getting its trade. So if China pulls the plug, then that’ll be the end of the DPRK. Therefore the US are right to keep pleading to China to rein in N. Korea.

    But the current North Korean and Chinese relationship is a puzzle for me. I can understand why China hadn’t pulled the plug in the past. For Chinese perspective during the cold war, the DPRK used to be an ideological buffer zone between communism and democracy but that buffer now seems obsolete due to advances in military technology, communication, trade and China’s warming relations with the rest of the international community, including South Korea. DPRK is a past relic of the cold war that’s no longer appears relevant to China in anyway but create tension in the peninsula. And so we read about China trying to reform North Korea slowly to their own image but so far North Korea isn’t interested.

    I don’t know if China has a plan B but the status quo surly can’t last forever, both countries are becoming more and more polarized economically and ideologically and if China leave it till North Korea have nuclear war heads and the DPRK finally collapses then what? North Korean refugees flooding into their country could be the least of their worries.
    A lot of what we are saying is no longer relevant. China is the world driving economical force with the US hanging on to its coat tails. I do not think it is as it used to be the US dictating if there is going to be a war or not. Remember the two Korea's will unite if not today, tomorrow, and the US will not be dictating the outcome. We are living in desperate times and these times facilitate desperate measures. If you push too hard at anything, it will rebound and most times now a day, it is back in your face. The US has caused many of these kinds of situations in the world. Lets be real, no nation has conquered the world and the US will not be the first.

    The young NK leader is not the one pushing the buttons yet, but he could move arbitrarily and upset the whole cart, thus causing the plans of the big nations to split into many pieces. The game people play is moving too fast for the ordinary observation to specify anything meaningful now. We can no longer think that because NK does not have modern weapons it will make a difference in a nuclear war. Everyone in the world will be seriously affected.

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    We can no longer think that because NK does not have modern weapons it will make a difference in a nuclear war. Everyone in the world will be seriously affected.
    How's that? North Korea can't do much with what it has and won't get any resupplies to keep up any war it starts so it has failed to do much if it starts a war with anyone. Who's affected with the North starting a war, only the South but will only anger the Chinese even more. The North has few "allies" if they start a war and will soon find themselves alone and without any aid other than the media telling everyone whatever the media wants to exaggerate about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    We can no longer think that because NK does not have modern weapons it will make a difference in a nuclear war. Everyone in the world will be seriously affected.
    How's that? North Korea can't do much with what it has and won't get any resupplies to keep up any war it starts so it has failed to do much if it starts a war with anyone. Who's affected with the North starting a war, only the South but will only anger the Chinese even more. The North has few "allies" if they start a war and will soon find themselves alone and without any aid other than the media telling everyone whatever the media wants to exaggerate about.
    You may be right, same as you may be wrong. We are surmising, when trouble starts it usualy goes another way. Today so much is electronics, a small blip can cause a war before anyone has time to see it coming.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    Today so much is electronics, a small blip can cause a war before anyone has time to see it coming.
    Rubbish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    China is the world driving economical force with the US hanging on to its coat tails.

    Not hardly, China's economy is still only about a 3rd as large as the US economy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
    China is the world driving economical force with the US hanging on to its coat tails.

    Not hardly, China's economy is still only about a 3rd as large as the US economy.
    Ok it is hard to go by what you read these days. I am sure the growth rate of China is greater than the US or not? In addition, does the US owe China a lot of money?

    Why is the US always involved in other countries as much as they do? I know America is not involved in studying other cultures, so why do they think they have to be always present. Some of these countries will never fit the American criterion. The US and all other countries who think they are better, is always trying to force other countries to adapt to their lifestyle. Do you think NK is afraid as most countries are of America? Is that not the whole idea of creating fear? The only country known to drop an atomic bomb is the United State, be it justified or not.

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    I have read that China simulate economical crisis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    So American...

    Why not just ignore him?
    The way one ignores a noisy attention-seeking child?
    Getting into a shouting match with an idiot is not really a pastime one wants to be involved in - especially on the world stage.
    Besides "Put up or shut up" is an ultimatum - that would make the US the "bad guy".

    The US and realpolitik don't exactly see eye to eye.
    I agree. I think Obama has handled this pretty well by pretty much ignoring him. If it was up to the chicken-hawk politicians in this country we would have troops on the ground in Egypt, Libya, Syria, Iran, and N. Korea. Let those people sort their own shit out. We (the USA) did and it took a terrible civil war about 100 yrs after our independence was secured. It wasn't exactly a smooth transition here. It won't be smooth in those other countries.
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    Besides "Put up or shut up" is an ultimatum - that would make the US the "bad guy".
    But North Korea had already declared war on the South and America first so by saying "bring it on" would only show the North that no one is very afraid of his banter and diatribe. Basically its just giving the North some of their own nonsense back at them. It can't make America look bad as you say for America is just replying to what the North said, not the other way around.
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  67. #66  
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    the fight between North Korea and South Korea ,According to the current situation , it is impossible war
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    the fight between North Korea and South Korea ,According to the current situation , it is impossible war
    I love science , I love chemistry
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  69. #68  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luna247 View Post
    the fight between North Korea and South Korea ,According to the current situation , it is impossible war
    Impossible in what way?
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  70. #69  
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    Quote Originally Posted by luna247 View Post
    the fight between North Korea and South Korea ,According to the current situation , it is impossible war
    You misspelled "unlikely".
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    well unlikely
    The relationship between the north and South is very complex
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  72. #71  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    SEOUL (AP) — In a show of force following weeks of North Korean bluster, the U.S. on Thursday took the unprecedented step of announcing that two of its nuclear-capable B-2 bombers dropped munitions on a South Korean island as part of joint military drills.
    The announcement is likely to further enrage Pyongyang, which has already issued a flood of ominous statements to highlight displeasure over the drills and United Nations sanctions over its nuclear test last month. But there were signs Thursday that it is willing to go only so far.

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=sending b-2 bombers to south korea&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQqQIwA A&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fnews %2Fworld%2F2013%2F03%2F28%2Fus-b-2-bombers-south-korea%2F2027607%2F&ei=ZF5UUfXsGI3o8gT2qoGwCw&usg=A FQjCNEHZ1CUB30C_fDUlGVt9AyeEVMhew



    So instead of just using more words of war our president spends more money sending stealth bombers to South Korea, that's not going to do much when all North Korea is doing is using words to get everyone upset.

    Instead the president should just say to North Korea...BRING IT ON! That way it would put the burden of the North's rhetoric on public display for non actionable phrases it is always spewing forth so that the media enjoys spreading this nonsense everywhere they can. The media should also just stop spreading the North Korean war mongering but then it wouldn't have any sensational remarks to publish so readers get all upset.
    just squish the little moron
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  73. #72  
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    I don't enjoy the stand I must take here.



    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Well today was supposed to be the missile fire day but alas nothing...
    This is immature and callous warmongering, where concern for human welfare would be most appropriate. The only expression of compassion I see is pretended indignation to justify a poorly-concealed thrill for war.

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