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Thread: Go Canada!

  1. #1 Go Canada! 
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Looks like Canada may the first of the "locked in" nations to bail on that expensive POS the F-35 and opt for something more realistic (and useful).
    Rafale is being pushed quite heavily by Dassault as a CF-18 replacement, with considerable industrial and financial benefits to boot.
    Apart from the fact that Rafale would be a genuine replacement (F-35 is little more than warmed-over F-105 1), it's a true multi-role (omni-role in Dassault's publicity) aircraft, and it's also combat proven as opposed to being, still, a largely "paper aeroplane".
    I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that more partners see sense 2 and jump ship.

    1 In the words of one Australian defence writer.
    2 FFS I told Lockheed Martin's people nearly two decades ago that it was a crap idea!


    Last edited by Dywyddyr; March 22nd, 2014 at 04:46 PM.
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  3. #2  
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    It has been a huge soap opera here.
    Harper might not have actually lied to Parliament about it but he could not be said to be honest about it either.

    We have some much bigger problems than planes to worry about though and it does not seem like we will get anything done about them until we ditch the crazy Conservatives we have in power at the moment.
    It is just one scandal after another with Harper and his crew.


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  4. #3  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Ah, Canadian prime ministers and military aircraft...

    (One of the few things I never liked about Due South was the name of the wolfdog ).
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    Dief was before my time and since the Avro Arrow never was fully tested there is no way to know how good it might have been.
    I understand the recruiters from other companies had a field day in the AVRO company parking lot on the day the engineers were fired.
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  6. #5  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Dief was before my time and since the Avro Arrow never was fully tested there is no way to know how good it might have been.
    It was good enough for it to be considered by the USAF as "the optimum interceptor for the early 1960's" .
    Even if it hadn't fully lived up to its publicity (and few aircraft ever do, at least when first introduced to service) it was still one of the most advanced, and best-performing, aircraft available anywhere at the time.

    The film may have had fictional/ dramatic elements (especially with regard to the finale), but it was, generally, accurate as far as details went.
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  7. #6  
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    I would have loved to see the Arrow fly. Whether it was a good plane or not isn't the point of what I said.
    I said there is no way to know just how good it might have been, and that is true.
    I think it was cancelled more for political reasons than economic reasons, but even that is questionable.
    I do think it cost us a lot in terms of development in regards to building an aerospace industry in Canada.
    When the engineers from AVRO were scattered many of them went to our American competitors and never came back.

    Anyhow, you started the thread about our mess here with the CF-35. It is a sordid story of deception from our Prime Minister and number cooking from our finance ministers that has been going on for more than 12 years.
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  8. #7  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    I think it was cancelled more for political reasons than economic reasons, but even that is questionable.
    Part of the politics was US aerospace manufacturers, and potential loss of American markets...

    Anyhow, you started the thread about our mess here with the CF-35. It is a sordid story of deception from our Prime Minister and number cooking from our finance ministers that has been going on for more than 12 years.
    The F-35 story is a ridiculously expensive one 1, and it's going to get worse. A classic case of throwing good money after bad, all because too many people are so invested in it that they've convinced themselves it's cheaper to carry on. (Which becomes less and less the case the more it continues).

    1 And, in some ways, a rehash of the F-111 debacle.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Part of the politics was US aerospace manufacturers, and potential loss of American markets...


    The F-35 story is a ridiculously expensive one 1, and it's going to get worse.

    1 And, in some ways, a rehash of the F-111 debacle.
    The threat of what we will lose or gain if we don't comply with US demands is still a large part of the politics with CF-35 just like it was with the Arrow.
    That never seems to change.

    Ridiculously expensive is true. The last estimates were $45 billion for 65 planes.
    Even that price was suspected to be an underestimate after all was said and done.

    It gets to the point where the war toys become too expensive to use.
    Last edited by dan hunter; March 22nd, 2014 at 10:39 PM.
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  10. #9  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    The last estimates were $45 billion for 65 planes.

    Meanwhile there are people and families in Canada that are hungry, lack proper housing, have deficient water systems, some cities have crumbling infrastructure, and new schools are needed. $45 billion is a shameful waste even if it were flushed down the toilet for 200 war planes or for X number of alternate war plane models (designed to kill and destroy).
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