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Thread: Possibly the best military weapon of all time - and I'm halfway through building one.

  1. #1 Possibly the best military weapon of all time - and I'm halfway through building one. 
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    Is the Iron Man suit possibly the most effective weapon of all time? I think so, that is why I am making one. It's hydraulics, life support, firepower and flight capabilities make it arguably the most powerful weapon ever. How would you go about building one?


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    Surely your optimum would "least loss, most damage or execution of goal" (although i dont agree with the pursuit), does not involve a man being in the firing range, an independantly operated machine would always decrease "danger", just take a look at the disgusting modern warefare. I would assert that if the machine could be operated on a virtual basis for the human this would be more effective. Not to mention it depends what you mean by the subjective word "effective" how do you define this? Ryan


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    Quote Originally Posted by IronPatriot View Post
    I'm halfway through building one.
    ...
    How would you go about building one?
    Seems a bit of a contradiction there. Shouldn't you be telling us?
    Last edited by Strange; May 1st, 2013 at 10:05 AM.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    The best weapon of all time is peace, understanding and cooperation between people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronPatriot View Post
    Is the Iron Man suit possibly the most effective weapon of all time?
    Yes, if you believe in all the "science fiction" stuff that it can do.

    You can take this to the bank: If the military of the USA could build something like that, and if it was shown to be the "best weapon of all time", they would build it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronPatriot View Post
    Is the Iron Man suit possibly the most effective weapon of all time?
    You know, there already is a military weapon that puts a man in a flying machine and gives him several different attack systems along with several defensive systems. It's called a jet fighter. Some even have VTOL capability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumaMan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IronPatriot View Post
    Is the Iron Man suit possibly the most effective weapon of all time?
    Yes, if you believe in all the "science fiction" stuff that it can do.

    You can take this to the bank: If the military of the USA could build something like that, and if it was shown to be the "best weapon of all time", they would build it.
    I've always liked the fantasy of Ironman, but even if you could build a suit like that, I can't imagine it would be something you would want to wear for any length of time, air conditioned or not. You might be able to handle small arms fire, but I doubt if you could make it thick enough to stop 50 caliber slugs, and if you got knocked out even just 20 feet up, the resulting crash to Earth would probably mess up the inside of the suit. <I'll pass on it>
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronPatriot View Post
    It's hydraulics, life support, firepower and flight capabilities make it arguably the most powerful weapon ever.
    It might not be the most powerful, but it would definitely be the most awesome.

    Who cares about winning? We should build one of these just for the coolness of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    and if you got knocked out even just 20 feet up, the resulting crash to Earth would probably mess up the inside of the suit. <I'll pass on it>

    Lol.

    Yeah. That's the part of the Iron Man movies that most requires suspension of disbelief for me. He's always getting thrown at these speeds and distances that I'm thinking.... armor or not..... that fall should have killed the man inside the suit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Yeah. That's the part of the Iron Man movies that most requires suspension of disbelief for me. He's always getting thrown at these speeds and distances that I'm thinking.... armor or not..... that fall should have killed the man inside the suit.
    More specifically, hit by a shell midflight- deflected in trajectory completely- created a crater where he landed.
    They would have opened up the suit to find a puddle of Stark.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Yeah. That's the part of the Iron Man movies that most requires suspension of disbelief for me. He's always getting thrown at these speeds and distances that I'm thinking.... armor or not..... that fall should have killed the man inside the suit.
    More specifically, hit by a shell midflight- deflected in trajectory completely- created a crater where he landed.
    They would have opened up the suit to find a puddle of Stark.
    True, but I am looking forward to Ironman 3.
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    Androids walking on war fields? near future
    Seems to be Terminated!
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    One extremely crucial issue remains with this whole "Oh I'm gonna build a iron man suit" idea. How in the name of Poseidon's anus are you supposed to use the bathroom in it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    One extremely crucial issue remains with this whole "Oh I'm gonna build a iron man suit" idea. How in the name of Poseidon's anus are you supposed to use the bathroom in it?
    One of about a dozen serious practical flaws in a suit like that. I've already said it, but by the time all the design specs are met, the thing would be the size of a fighter jet. So, what's the point? We already have them.

    You know, there already is a military weapon that puts a man in a flying machine and gives him several different attack systems along with several defensive systems. It's called a jet fighter. Some even have VTOL capability.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    The best weapon of all time is peace, understanding and cooperation between people.
    You damn hippies.

    Firing lasers!
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronPatriot View Post
    Is the Iron Man suit possibly the most effective weapon of all time? I think so, that is why I am making one. It's hydraulics, life support, firepower and flight capabilities make it arguably the most powerful weapon ever. How would you go about building one?
    I do not think it exists, so no. in actuality, I do not think the human body was made for flight. so despite jets, you'd soar like a wild rocket. no control anywhere. I am not an expert though. firepower? we have yet to construct a small enough laser.
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    Physics of the suit aside, he won't be responding as he's been banned.

    The first mistake was thinking the "ultimate weapon" would have a human inside. That having been said, I'm still hoping someone will build me my very own Jagermech. I should at least be able to take temporary control of my neighborhood.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Physics of the suit aside, he won't be responding as he's been banned.

    The first mistake was thinking the "ultimate weapon" would have a human inside. That having been said, I'm still hoping someone will build me my very own Jagermech. I should at least be able to take temporary control of my neighborhood.
    Why was he banned?

    So I may clearly understand what not to do
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    Quote Originally Posted by chero View Post
    Why was he banned?

    So I may clearly understand what not to do
    Threatening comments and making a sock puppet.
    Edit: Jinx
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    have u created an arc reactor dude . lolll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    With all due respect to the comic book, and RPG round will turn the Ironman suit into little pieces of scrap metal.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
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    Hydraulics.......

    Really?

    Haha don't make me laugh.

    Artificial muscle fibers are far superior.
    All of those cool transformer effects you see the suit performing (flight stabilising plates etc.) are achieved with electronic micro-actuators, especially since the arc reactor is not a hot fusion reactor and thus produces electricity directly.

    Take away the repulsor beams (which are ambiguous at best) and the suits primary functions cannot classify it as a weapon. The missiles are a weapons system not an integral part of the exoskeleton.


    Allways remember......


    IT IS AN ADVANCED POWERED EXO-SKELETON, not a weapon.

    Otherwise tony would have lost custody of the suit.
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    I like when he pulls the arc reactor out of his chest, it's connected with 14 gauge wires. Guess it only has an ampacity of a few amps.
    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver1968 View Post
    I like when he pulls the arc reactor out of his chest, it's connected with 14 gauge wires. Guess it only has an ampacity of a few amps.
    Good point.

    Why the heck is he even using copper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGyver1968 View Post
    I like when he pulls the arc reactor out of his chest, it's connected with 14 gauge wires. Guess it only has an ampacity of a few amps.
    Here's some pictures of the arc reactor that may be of interest. The one showing the wires looks like the first generation model (but still?), those wires might keep his heart going, but powering the suit is another matter altogether.

    The next issue I have is the arc reactor looks to be at least 3 inches thick, with maybe at least 2 inches going into the chest. Makes me wonder where his heart is located? Even if it could fit, any good smack to the chest area would be transmitted to the heart directly. In all three movies he received many blows to the chest area that should have killed him.



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    It is quite Dodgy.

    Personally i would use superconductors or at least carbon nanotube wiring.

    Plus having cherenkov radiation (it's mostly ultraviolet but still) that close to your heart, although I suppose it is all reflected away from his chest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    One extremely crucial issue remains with this whole "Oh I'm gonna build a iron man suit" idea. How in the name of Poseidon's anus are you supposed to use the bathroom in it?
    Simple.

    An electrolysis assembly would electrolyse the pee into oxygen and hydrogen (hydrogen could then be used to fuel the suit) and the rest such as urea and minerals could either be expelled or recycled and fed back intravenously. Similar thing could be done for poo or drugs to make you constipated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    One extremely crucial issue remains with this whole "Oh I'm gonna build a iron man suit" idea. How in the name of Poseidon's anus are you supposed to use the bathroom in it?
    Simple.

    An electrolysis assembly would electrolyze the pee into oxygen and hydrogen (hydrogen could then be used to fuel the suit) and the rest such as urea and minerals could either be expelled or recycled and fed back intravenously. Similar thing could be done for poo or drugs to make you constipated.
    Don't forget about the astronaut diaper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    One extremely crucial issue remains with this whole "Oh I'm gonna build a iron man suit" idea. How in the name of Poseidon's anus are you supposed to use the bathroom in it?
    Simple.

    An electrolysis assembly would electrolyze the pee into oxygen and hydrogen (hydrogen could then be used to fuel the suit) and the rest such as urea and minerals could either be expelled or recycled and fed back intravenously. Similar thing could be done for poo or drugs to make you constipated.
    Don't forget about the astronaut diaper.


    LOL, do you what features it has that make them suited for astronauts?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Robot View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by shlunka View Post
    One extremely crucial issue remains with this whole "Oh I'm gonna build a iron man suit" idea. How in the name of Poseidon's anus are you supposed to use the bathroom in it?
    Simple.

    An electrolysis assembly would electrolyze the pee into oxygen and hydrogen (hydrogen could then be used to fuel the suit) and the rest such as urea and minerals could either be expelled or recycled and fed back intravenously. Similar thing could be done for poo or drugs to make you constipated.
    Don't forget about the astronaut diaper.


    LOL, do you what features it has that make them suited for astronauts?
    Well according to the MAG wiki article, it can hold up to two litre of urine, feces, or blood... Blood, huh? Astronauts must throw some wild parties.
    "Cultivated leisure is the aim of man."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Artificial muscle fibers are far superior.
    And an antimatter powered piston made of neutronium is superior even to that!
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    we should genetically engineer people to have superpowers like in the X-Men.

    Let's see how your Iron Man suit works when it's being crumpled into a little ball with you inside it, thanks to someone with powers of magnetism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Artificial muscle fibers are far superior.
    And an antimatter powered piston made of neutronium is superior even to that!

    And how do you plan on holding the neutronium together, not being crushed by it, or be able to actually take off, lets not forget the time dialation field, or the possibilty of it digging a massive hole on earth.

    How does it even work?
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    Judicious application of HandwaviumTM.
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    Anyone seen the iron patriot about?
    I hope he didn't lock hisself into the iron suit and not be able to get out to defecate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Judicious application of HandwaviumTM.
    Are you saying billvon is disagreeing with my claim by posting an absurd (not impossible though, I don't argue against that) concept?

    This is a serious question?
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    Sheldon? Is that you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    And how do you plan on holding the neutronium together, not being crushed by it
    By having compensating neutronium on the other side of course!
    or be able to actually take off
    Antimatter rockets.
    lets not forget the time dialation field, or the possibilty of it digging a massive hole on earth.
    Digging a massive hole in the earth - that's a feature, not a bug!
    How does it even work?
    Antimatter explosions drive the two piston segments apart. Air is used as the matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Judicious application of HandwaviumTM.
    That too.
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    Hold up a second, you guys are trolling right?

    Okay first of all define what you mean by neutronium (since there is no universally agreed upon term for neutronium) because the most scientifically accurate description of neutronium is formed when a star that is too massive cannot be supported by it's electron degenerative pressure and collapse into a denser state of matter comprised of neutrons.

    It is extremely hard, theorized to be harder than diamond, however it cannot exist outside of that star because as soon as you take them outside of the neutron star (for engineering purposes) the immense gravity at the center of the star no longer holds the neutronium together and the strong nuclear force does not apply here, so the neutronium will simply disintegrate.

    Even if we can reproduce that gravitational field on earth, surely it would destroy earth. Likewise if you produce an antigravity field, and thus use neutrons with negative mass instead, since antigrativity attract negative mass and repels positive mass it still wouldn't work because an antigravity field would have to have an equivalent strength on the antigravity scale and that repulsive force would also ultimately destroy earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    It is extremely hard, theorized to be harder than diamond, however it cannot exist outside of that star because as soon as you take them outside of the neutron star (for engineering purposes) the immense gravity at the center of the star no longer holds the neutronium together and the strong nuclear force does not apply here, so the neutronium will simply disintegrate.
    Well, sure, there are a few minor technical problems. But as long as we're going with theoretical technologies, antimatter powered neutronium pistons are going to be a lot stronger than artificial muscle fibers.
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    Please direct me to an article that explains neutronium pistons.

    And try to remember we are talking about the iron-man suit (or even the nanosuit I suppose)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Please direct me to an article that explains neutronium pistons.
    I suppose you think it is a science fiction concept.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Please direct me to an article that explains neutronium pistons.
    I suppose you think it is a science fiction concept.
    Hold up, we obviously think differently.

    What's your definition of Science Fiction?
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    I was just pointing out that in one thread you were suggesting the use of non-existent, and currently impossible, technology (aka science fiction). While in this thread you seem to object to someone else doing the same thing. You also seem to have missed the point that it was sarcasm.
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    Oh,

    So you see science fiction as time dependent, as in any device that has not yet been physically produced is science fiction, Is that right?.

    I've allways viewed Science Fiction (or more specifically fiction in general) as impossible, period. Or anything that can only exist in the imagination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    You also seem to have missed the point that it was sarcasm.
    Sorry, I'm not good wit this.

    Okay so the reason I got caught up was because I was using well defined and established physics and principles (Pair Production, Electro-Magnetic manipulation and Induction, Antimatter etc.) to theorise an idea for an alternative photovoltaic method. I didn't violate any laws of physics and some of the other's agreed with me even if a little skeptic.

    I'm not unrealistic, I'm not saying it will exist now, I was just asking if the produced electrons could be used directly for electricity. Since most are emitted at high energies they could provide a lot of power.

    When it comes to the positrons, anti-circuit is probalby misleading, I don't mean a computer chip made out of antimatter (and the positron is conducted trough it as anti-electricity (that is possible), I just meant any mechanism that could extract the kinetic energy of that positron, and the last poster mentioned MHD generators which I am reading about, and that electro-magnetic fields can beused to direct those positron's through (for example an MHD). My link to anti-hydrogen was also to show that this principle is not just possible, It does not violate physics and electromagnetic containment has already been achieved.

    So when you called it sci-fi I thought you were saying it was a load of BS and would never work.


    When it comes to this thread my issue is not his idea, is that the science and principles he is basing it on partly don't exist/are not well established enough to be applied to much. Specifically I refer to neutronium being used for engineering in things such as pistons, even more specifically in the iron-man suit. Neutronium doesn't even have and agreed upon definition and the most scientific understanding of it implies that it's existence outside of an imense gravitational field (the minimum gravitaional field required to overcome electron-degenerative pressure) seems to contradict the application that he has in mind.

    I don't dicredit him at all (as I said earlier) just as I can't discredit the existence of God.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Oh,
    So you see science fiction as time dependent, as in any device that has not yet been physically produced is science fiction, Is that right?.
    I've allways viewed Science Fiction (or more specifically fiction in general) as impossible, period. Or anything that can only exist in the imagination.
    Whut?
    Science fiction usually (especially in the "Golden Age) relie[s/d] on devices that were/ are (at least thought to be) plausible.
    In fact one "rule" is that an author is allowed only one "implausible/ impossible divide".

    As for "fiction in general" being impossible... you do know that, for example, Bernard Cornwell writes fiction? Which parts of the saga of Richard Sharpe do you consider to be impossible?
    For that matter, which parts of Silence of the Lambs (or any crime fiction) is impossible? Or of Jack Ryan's adventures?
    Impossible != unlikely.
    Likewise impossible != didn't actually happen but could well have done.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  49. #48  
    Forum Sophomore ChaosD.Ace's Avatar
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    Okay so lets approach this idea you have. I just need some clarifications.

    Lets take this slow.


    My original issue as stated is neutronium cannot exist outside a neutron-star grade gravitational field, which of course will depend upon the mass of the star (number of neutrons in that neutron star), so

    1) If you take out enough neutronium that field will no longer be strong enough to hold the neutrons in the star together and that star will dissipate allong with the neutronium you extracted, thus neutronium does not exist in smaller quantities than that found in the smallest neutron star. You either take the whole star or you take nothing. How do you plan on overcoming this slight shortcoming?

    2) It's theorised density is 41017 kg/m3 so if you somehow manage to get it in a small enough piston component shape (let's say based on the iron-mans armour dimensions roughly a component with a volume of 2.2 x10-5 m3) one piston would weight roughly 8800000000000 kilograms. Now imagine multiple pistons on the suit. How do you plan on overcoming the weight issue?

    "Due to β decay of mononeutron and extreme instability of aforementioned heavier "isotopes", neutronium is not expected to be stable under ordinary pressures" extrtact from wikipedia.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    made of neutronium is superior even to that!
    Okay. So the material these pistons are made from is neutronium, as in the normal metal in a normal piston is just replaced with neutronium right?

    So lets assume you manage to hold neutronium outside of a neutron star in a size small and even large enough for a small piston and a supermassive piston. You said:

    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    antimatter powered piston
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Antimatter explosions drive the two piston segments apart. Air is used as the matter.
    It's an anihilation not an explosion, (intense release of high energy photons, mostly gamma ray photons). How do you plan on using this intense release of electromagnetic energy to drive the two piston segments apart?

    Because the way I see this going is Boom, anihilation, gamma rays are released, absobed by neutronium (since it's so dense), maybe trigger neutron decay, and POW!



    .......nothing happens.

    Or perhaps your thinking of accelerating the matter and anti matter so fast that they anihilate into slightly heavier/more particles, if so How do you plan on:

    1) Accelerating them that fast?

    2) To achieve a pressure high enough to to push something that weights a value to the power of 12 kilograms?



    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Antimatter rockets.
    Again How do you plan on using EM radiation or particle to particle anihilation to produce enough thrust to lift something so heavy?


    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Digging a massive hole in the earth - that's a feature, not a bug!

    What?








    Who knew Tony Stark was secretly evil.

    Where should I start, this is not one of those wholes you get from a digger or a driller, this is appocalyptic stuff, tis is a whole and a gravitational field which will warp the crust of the planet if not the core, probably induce a localised time dilation field, probably send earth out it's orbit, but I guess if your lucky and place the neutronium in the right spot you can allways crash the earth into the sun, no biggy.

    How do you plan on shielding these effects?

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Well, sure, there are a few minor technical problems.
    few?

    MINOR?







    Praised be the lord!

    Neutronium is a cool material, and I supose you could use it as shields for gigantic intergalactic starships, but not anytime soon.
    Last edited by ChaosD.Ace; October 23rd, 2013 at 10:19 AM.
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  50. #49  
    Forum Sophomore ChaosD.Ace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Oh,
    So you see science fiction as time dependent, as in any device that has not yet been physically produced is science fiction, Is that right?.
    I've allways viewed Science Fiction (or more specifically fiction in general) as impossible, period. Or anything that can only exist in the imagination.
    Whut?
    Science fiction usually (especially in the "Golden Age) relie[s/d] on devices that were/ are (at least thought to be) plausible.
    In fact one "rule" is that an author is allowed only one "implausible/ impossible divide".

    As for "fiction in general" being impossible... you do know that, for example, Bernard Cornwell writes fiction? Which parts of the saga of Richard Sharpe do you consider to be impossible?
    For that matter, which parts of Silence of the Lambs (or any crime fiction) is impossible? Or of Jack Ryan's adventures?
    Impossible != unlikely.
    Likewise impossible != didn't actually happen but could well have done.
    Well I guess we all speak in the same terms now, still though science fiction can carry some dissmisive connotations.
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  51. #50  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Well, sure, there are a few minor technical problems.
    few?

    MINOR?







    Praised be the lord!

    Neutronium is a cool material, and I supose you could use it as shields for gigantic intergalactic starships, but not anytime soon.
    And yet when others pointed out the same problems with your ideas you got all prissy about it. Double standards?
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  52. #51  
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    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
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  53. #52  
    Forum Sophomore ChaosD.Ace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosD.Ace View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Well, sure, there are a few minor technical problems.
    few?

    MINOR?







    Praised be the lord!

    Neutronium is a cool material, and I supose you could use it as shields for gigantic intergalactic starships, but not anytime soon.


    And yet when others pointed out the same problems with your ideas you got all prissy about it. Double standards?
    And I answered you with valid science, and another guy agreed, and it was one small problem that we all agree requires some advancement in the tech power, but the principle (extracting energy from a positron) is sound and valid. Besides I've abandoned the concept of the anti-circuit, because of the issues you guys brought up and there's no need for it anymore. Instead I am researching what somebody else posted as an alternative method of extracting energy from positrons.

    I did'nt get prissy over the techniqual arguments you made (like I said I worked with them), I got prissy because you called it Sci-Fi since we didnt have the same meaning of the term.

    How were they the same problems? He is trying to use a material whose properties contradict the purpose he has in mind for it (at least on our scale, if you zoom out to the point where neutron stars are the size of atoms then I suppose it would work).

    You brought up one issue that encompasses only half of my Idea, and I changed it, thats why I started that post anyway, to ask a question and get answers from people like stanley514 who directed in an alternate direction.

    Feel free to ask me questions (on the other post hough) about my idea and I will answer them as accurately as I can, with some research too if I can find relevant articles.

    In the meantime I will wait for his answers to my questions.
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