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Thread: New Laser for Navel ships

  1. #1 New Laser for Navel ships 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    The U.S. Navy announced Monday that it is preparing to deploy a new weapon that can disable a hostile boat and even destroy a surveillance drone overhead all without dispensing any expensive ammunition.

    Navy unveils powerful ship-mounted laser weapon - U.S. News=


    The drone they hit was made of paper, it would seem, to be on fire like they show it. Drones are very slow in flight usually under 100 MPH and are easy targets because they fly in a straight line for the most part.

    Why didn't the Navy use a real plane, like an old fighter, to shoot down? It seems we are again being told something that isn't true, to me, because lasers are not very powerful after about a half of a mile or so, even the best of them. So again this "test" doesn't provide me with information justifying such a device to be used against oncoming missiles traveling supersonic speeds and undulating as they fly towards the ship. I'd get rid of it and use a rail gun...

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...2JIMLBMmzaPHHg

    Or super bullets...
    ‘Super bullet’ can guide itself, hit targets a mile away [video] | SmartPlanet


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  3. #2  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    Sorry, nothing to do with your post but the Navel in your title suggests belly buttons have ships and lasers
    You know I didn't think about it. I only copied and pasted the title where I found that article from. Thanks for the laugh, at whoever wrote the articles expense!

    The plural form of navy is navies.


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  4. #3  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    The drone they hit was made of paper, it would seem, to be on fire like they show it.
    You've never seen combat footage? Especially from WWII. Aircraft are full of fuel, wiring and other flammable sh*t. They BURN.

    Drones are very slow in flight usually under 100 MPH and are easy targets because they fly in a straight line for the most part.
    Apart from the faster ones (er, up to Mach 3 or more) and they fly as programmed. Many (as aerial targets) are designed and intended to manoeuvre.

    Why didn't the Navy use a real plane, like an old fighter, to shoot down?
    Because:
    A) they cost a lot more.
    B) they take considerably longer to prep for flight.
    C) they can't be launched as quickly or easily as drones.
    D) supporting a full-sized aircraft as a drone is considerably more expensive and intensive in man power.

    It seems we are again being told something that isn't true, to me, because lasers are not very powerful after about a half of a mile or so, even the best of them. So again this "test" doesn't provide me with information justifying such a device to be used against oncoming missiles traveling supersonic speeds and undulating as they fly towards the ship.
    Publicy-released footage of one test isn't the total of the reason. They've been testing and refining these things for decades.
    Lasers CAN penetrate the atmosphere, one rule of thumb is 30% power loss per mile.

    I'd get rid of it and use a rail gun...
    A much slower-acting weapon, that requires ammunition, and has more impact on the ship's structure? Not to mention recoil.

    Or super bullets...
    Hmm...
    Red Jones and Brian Kast recently developed and successfully tested a dart-like, self-guided bullet In other words, not a proven reliable technology.
    for small-caliber, smooth-bore firearms that could hit laser-designated targets And STILL require a laser.

    You're missing the point:
    it should be able to replace a Gatling gun, whose rounds can cost several thousand dollars each.
    It's a replacement/ supplement for the Phalanx CIWS. Its intended ONLY for small close-in targets.

    A defense official also stressed that the laser will not have full capability to take down a larger target for a decade or so.
    See?

    The laser will require (possibly) less space on board, no deck penetration for ammunition feed, will be (probably) lighter than a Phalanx and have zero recoil. All of which make it suitable for smaller vessels and/ or able to be "scabbed on" as opposed to designed-in. Plus it's cheaper to operate and has fewer problems acquiring and hitting the target.
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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Plus it's cheaper to operate and has fewer problems acquiring and hitting the target.
    And it's just cool to be able to brag that "My ship has frickin' lasers!"
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  6. #5  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Oh my, I've been scorned by the man himself! I feel this is a very notable day in SF timeline!
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  7. #6  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Huh?
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  8. #7  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Huh?
    What?
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  9. #8  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Huh?
    What?
    Huh what?
    I was querying your comment about being "scorned by the man".
    What scorn?
    Who?
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  10. #9  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Huh what?
    I was querying your comment about being "scorned by the man".
    What scorn?
    Who?
    Stop that querying stuff it will make you shrivel up.
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  11. #10  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Huh?
    What?
    It is these kinds of high-brow discussions that bring me back to TSF time and time again. :P
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  12. #11  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    We can go through it again slowly if you're having trouble following the logic.
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  13. #12  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    OK!
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  14. #13  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    OK!
    Actually I don't see why we can't have all 3 of those weapons. They would all serve a purpose and have their own advantages for different types of defense and attack options.

    Another thing is you have to work on developing these weapons and that means building and testing. About the targeting systems, they should be computer controlled with state of the art radar systems that can track any object in the atmosphere and take it out in short order.
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  15. #14  
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    what i want to know is who thought Ponce was a good name for a ship?
    Sometimes it is better not knowing than having an answer that may be wrong.
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  16. #15  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispen Evan View Post
    what i want to know is who thought Ponce was a good name for a ship?
    It's one of the Slipped Through the Net-class ships.
    From Wiki:
    LPD-15 Ponce
    CHP-83 Nancy Boy
    LAPD-06 Smelly Hobo
    WTF-53-1/4 Dodgy Twat
    OMG-3i Kiddy Fiddler


    (It's actually named, apparently, and ultimately, for Ponce de Leon, via the Puerto Rican city).
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  17. #16  
    AI's Have More Fun Bad Robot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispen Evan View Post
    what i want to know is who thought Ponce was a good name for a ship?
    USS Ponce (AFSB(I)-15), an Austin-class amphibious transport dock, is the only ship of the United States Navy that is named for Ponce in the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, which in turn was named after the Spanish explorer Juan Ponce de Leon, the first governor of Puerto Rico and European discoverer of Florida.

    Her keel was laid down on 31 October 1966 by the Lockheed Shipbuilding and Construction Company of Seattle, Washington. She was launched on 20 May 1970 sponsored by Mrs. John J. Hyland, and commissioned on 10 July 1971.[3]
    The Ponce has been used as a testbed for new applications including Afloat Forward Staging Base and the Laser Weapon System.
    Not sure that answers your question, but it should give you more to work with.
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  18. #17  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Bad Robot
    Another thing is you have to work on developing these weapons and that means building and testing. About the targeting systems, they should be computer controlled with state of the art radar systems that can track any object in the atmosphere and take it out in short order.
    Again I'm saying that a laser, no matter how powerful , can be easily defended against by incorporating a mirror like nose cone on the missile which is cheap to do. So, to me, wasting money on researching a device that can be defeated that simply should be something to reconsider before continuing pouring more money into it.
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  19. #18  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Again I'm saying that a laser, no matter how powerful , can be easily defended against by incorporating a mirror like nose cone on the missile
    Common misconception.
    Lasers damage by thermal shock, among other mechanisms.
    To illustrate just how useless a plain mirror is, one of the mooted Star Wars (SDI, not the film!) lasers was calculated to require 1 TONNE PER SECOND of liquid hydrogen on the focussing mirror to keep it cool enough not to be destroyed by its OWN beam during firing.
    Admittedly that was at source and the beam would have less effect at the ranges it was intended for, but it does give you some idea of the "utility" of mirrors alone as "defence" against a laser.
    There will be some (measurable) degradation of effect if the target is reflective, but not enough to matter.

    And the shift (or intent to shift) is to higher frequencies/ shorter wavelengths. How many mirrors reflect ANY portion of X-rays? Gamma rays?
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  20. #19  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    And the shift (or intent to shift) is to higher frequencies/ shorter wavelengths. How many mirrors reflect ANY portion of X-rays? Gamma rays?
    None.

    Lasers damage by thermal shock, among other mechanisms.
    True, but the laser loses its potential as it gets farther away from where it originated so the impact will degrade considerably.
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  21. #20  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    True, but the laser loses its potential as it gets farther away from where it originated so the impact will degrade considerably.
    Not "considerably" enough though.
    As previously mentioned, losses are roughly 30% per mile 1.
    The system under discussion is a short-range (within a mile) one.
    Plus, since the laser is a light speed straight line-of-sight weapon it can be held on target for long times.
    A shell (or shot) from a gun is not straight-line-of-sight, and most rounds miss (regardless of computerised tracking/ aiming systems).
    A low power over (relatively) long times is going to be as effective as higher power at individual impacts.

    And there's still the advantage of easier installation, smaller space requirements and no (or significantly less) deck penetration AND zero ammunition cost.


    1 A quick calculation gives a ~55% reduction in velocity for a 25mm 3 round over 1500 metres (=~ 1 mile). And what's worse, that means (because of 0.5mv2) that means an EIGHTY PERCENT power loss for guns at that range.
    2 That was actually a "squared", not footnote 2!
    3 I used 25mm because that's how the spread sheet I opened was set up. If we're talking about the standard 20mm weapon then the velocity reduction, and subsequent energy reduction, will be higher. The smaller the calibre the greater the velocity drop (all else being equal).
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