Notices
Results 1 to 11 of 11
Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By kojax

Thread: The 1984 strategy

  1. #1 The 1984 strategy 
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    In the book 1984, there are monitors everywhere, and you never know if there's a person looking through them or not. So you basically have to assume you're always being watched, or run the risk of doing something incriminating and getting seen.

    Villagers in a lot of areas of Afghanistan complain that the USA can't protect them from Taliban if they support us. So maybe we could set up a fake outpost by every village, and then randomly rotate real troops through them? We'd have to heavily booby trap them so the enemy couldn't just go in and look while we're away to confirm our absence before attacking the village.

    Do you think it would make any difference? Or would the Taliban just roll the dice and take their chances, losing troops occasionally but otherwise being undeterred?


    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,308
    Villagers in a lot of areas of Afghanistan complain that the USA can't protect them from Taliban if they support us.
    It's called an excuse.


    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    I must admit I'm curious about this. Since you are/were a soldier and might actually know, is the likelihood of the Taliban killing a person for talking with US soldiers a real likelihood, or just bullshit the villagers feed us in order to avoid admitting they just plain don't want to help?

    Some sources I've consulted claim it's very real, such as the Green Berets documentary I've posted links to in the past (I could dig it up again if you haven't seen it yet.) But intuitively, I have a hard time believing that the Taliban has the manpower to carry out such threats. Maybe they say they'll kill people over stuff like that, but would they really act on it if it happened?
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,308
    It happen sometimes, but more often the people just want to stay neutral because of the uncertain future. Others want to support the Taliban but won't because it's too risky. Either way claiming it's dangerous works to delays our attempt to make then chose sides. They are survivors above all else, and given that country's history who can blame them.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    Also given our historic tendency toward abandoning allies. That makes sense. So a 1984 strategy wouldn't make any difference I guess, if the threat is really more of an end game "we'll remember you after we've won" type threat.

    So there's another advantage of colonization. If American citizens were to permanently relocate, there would be no chance for our allies to ever be left out in the cold facing their enemies alone. We'd increase our likelihood of recruiting local support ten fold.
    The Finger Prince likes this.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,148
    Indeed such a ploy would not work for the simple reason The US are the invaders. If you beleive the BullShit that you are the good guys the Afghans dont. You are the evil militaristic warmongers dying for the profits of Haliburton and the imperial delusions of scumbags in cumfy leather chairs that will always be ready to fight to the last drop of other peoples blood. Its sad. Sometimes local people being invaded dont roll over and fight back even if the odds arent good, farmers trained to grow crops and feed populations will take pitchforks if they have to, what ever they can to fight back armed soldiers trained to kill and subjugate populations. Tisk tisk, Shame on you, bad, bad invader.


    Speaking of 1984 however, I would be more worried about the Orwellian Police State that is being built brick by brick in the US by the corrupt government puppets, than be worried by archaic farmers on the other side of the World. Afghans have not implemented the Patriot Act, have not torn the bill of rights apart, cant place the US on a map let alone have a remote clue what TSA groping and xraying goons stands for, have not rubber stamped NSA spying on the US citizens and journalists, are not tazing and pepper-spraying students sitting down, have not made secret 7 Trillion deals with Wall Street, are not telling cops to infiltrate peace movements or made provisions to hold US citizens indefinately without a trial. The Media coverage and Elections are rigged to make sure the leading candidates are corrupt and rigged to marginalize less corrupt candidates. The systemic corruption and concentration of influence, the Wall Street Mafia and the current corrupt US government, are by far, by very far the gravest and most imminent threat to the freedom of US citizens.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    Indeed such a ploy would not work for the simple reason The US are the invaders. If you beleive the BullShit that you are the good guys the Afghans dont. You are the evil militaristic warmongers dying for the profits of Haliburton and the imperial delusions of scumbags in cumfy leather chairs that will always be ready to fight to the last drop of other peoples blood. Its sad. Sometimes local people being invaded dont roll over and fight back even if the odds arent good, farmers trained to grow crops and feed populations will take pitchforks if they have to, what ever they can to fight back armed soldiers trained to kill and subjugate populations. Tisk tisk, Shame on you, bad, bad invader.
    I think they'd be more pragmatic than you think. Sure, we're the big bad invaders who've massacred thousands of their people to avenge a mere 3,000 of our own. But.... we're also really powerful. Making an alliance with us could pay off quite a bit down the line iIF (and only if) they could be sure we weren't just going to pull up stakes and abandon them.

    A permanent settlement of Americans would be a base of operations for the social network to form around. In all honesty it would be little more than a mafia, but mafia-esq and/or tribal organizations are pretty much the way everything works over there already anyway. It's all about who you know, not what you can do. The biggest social network always wins.


    Speaking of 1984 however, I would be more worried about the Orwellian Police State that is being built brick by brick in the US by the corrupt government puppets, than be worried by archaic farmers on the other side of the World. Afghans have not implemented the Patriot Act, have not torn the bill of rights apart, cant place the US on a map let alone have a remote clue what TSA groping and xraying goons stands for, have not rubber stamped NSA spying on the US citizens and journalists, are not tazing and pepper-spraying students sitting down, have not made secret 7 Trillion deals with Wall Street, are not telling cops to infiltrate peace movements or made provisions to hold US citizens indefinately without a trial. The Media coverage and Elections are rigged to make sure the leading candidates are corrupt and rigged to marginalize less corrupt candidates. The systemic corruption and concentration of influence, the Wall Street Mafia and the current corrupt US government, are by far, by very far the gravest and most imminent threat to the freedom of US citizens.
    Yeah, but there's no military solution to this situation. That would require social change. (This is the military forum.)
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,148
    Sorry about the bad invader bit, even if jokingly, I have to take up tai chi and budist meditation to help myself from making anti-war responses to military posts, its hard
    Youre a good sport to let it slide. tanks

    " but there's no military solution to this situation. that would require social change."
    Yeah, but arent the gun hum, enthusiasts, in the US claiming their small fire arms is to fend off an eventual state tyranny? (which hasnt prevented the step by step installment of a police state so far). Just how bad does it have to be before the people revolt? (when people start disappearing like in Pinochet's regime or are herded in line at the gates of FEMA camps or something?)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Behind the enlightening rod.
    Posts
    936
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Also given our historic tendency toward abandoning allies. That makes sense. So a 1984 strategy wouldn't make any difference I guess, if the threat is really more of an end game "we'll remember you after we've won" type threat.

    So there's another advantage of colonization. If American citizens were to permanently relocate, there would be no chance for our allies to ever be left out in the cold facing their enemies alone. We'd increase our likelihood of recruiting local support ten fold.
    Excellent point about leaving allies out in the cold- of course British do it more often and more thoroughly. So when, kojax, are YOU leaving for Afghanistan?

    Of course, colonizing space, so far there are no resentful native populations to contend with.

    Earth sucks.
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    They'd definitely have to pay me to do it. (As also they'd have to pay most of the colonizers.) I don't know if that happens by taxing the local population, seizing and granting free land to the colonizers (how it was often done in antiquity), or just offering a lump sum of cash to each colonizer. In today's economy, you might be surprised what Americans are willing to do for a good livelihood.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    856
    A personal question to icewendigo,


    From what news sources, did you learn everything that you speak about above ??


    Thank you,
    Chad.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. God in 1984?
    By Incoming Dessert in forum Scientific Study of Religion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: August 15th, 2012, 04:11 AM
  2. Blue ocean strategy?
    By mamonsam in forum Business & Economics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: October 10th, 2011, 01:33 AM
  3. Warming since 1984
    By Wild Cobra in forum Environmental Issues
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: May 10th, 2010, 10:15 PM
  4. Replies: 23
    Last Post: December 10th, 2009, 12:12 AM
  5. 1984
    By BitterSweet in forum Behavior and Psychology
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: July 4th, 2009, 11:21 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •