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Thread: New Rifle Caliber?

  1. #1 New Rifle Caliber? 
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    Actually, it's been around for a couple years now, so it isn't new.

    Anyone have any thoughts on the 6.8mm SPC?


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    I haven't seen anything about it. What's wrong with our 5.56 and 7.62's?


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  4. #3  
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    I haven't heard of anything of this new caliber. I like the 7.62 just fine though.
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  5. #4 Re: New Rifle Caliber? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie
    Actually, it's been around for a couple years now, so it isn't new.

    Anyone have any thoughts on the 6.8mm SPC?
    i've heard that its being considered for the new Fn SCAR special operations rifle being built.

    but not much else.
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  6. #5  
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    How many grains are put into it? Just wonderin'
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohngGalt
    I haven't seen anything about it. What's wrong with our 5.56 and 7.62's?
    The 5.56 doesn't have much horsepower, especially out of a short barrel (M4). The 7.62 NATO is a full power rifle round, so it has too much recoil for full auto shooting and the ammo weighs too much to hump 600 rounds at a time.

    I prefer the .308 Winchester myself, and prefer it in an M14 configuration, which I can shoot and hit with, but the Pentagon doesn't seem to agree. Perhaps I'm not a general has something to do with it.

    What the 6.8 round does is economy. All that is changed is the barrels on M16s (and associated variants) and we have a new rifle. Same lower, same basic upper, same gas system and same magazines.

    The 6.8 fires a 130 grain round of .277 caliber as opposed to the 5.56 rounds 55 or 62 grains of .223 caliber.
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  8. #7  
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    The 5.7mm rounds are extremely effective rounds. I tend to favor them. I believe these are pretty quick out the barrel.

    I've thought about trading my M4 for a Five Seven pistol a few times. It's just the ammunition is not widely available.
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    on the subject of ammo, could someone tell me what a 30/30 150 shell is and what its primarily used for? Is it military or commercial?


    I usually shoot target with .22 and .38(cause the gun club back stop wont hold back anything larger) and i dont fancy going across to black powder pistols (the uk banned all pistols exept black powder so we are usually limited to semi auto rifles at best)

    I grew up from 14 shooting .410 and 12bore shotguns(legal age for shotgun licence in uk)then to 10ft/lb air then to firearms mainly for target shooting now
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  10. #9  
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    .30-30, is a caliber that was used in the Winchester lever action rifle after the American Civil War. I currently use that when I hunt.

    It's good for shorter range to medium range thin skinned game. The round is sluggish and sometimes you can actually "see it" and you'll notice a significant drop at range.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm
    .30-30, is a caliber that was used in the Winchester lever action rifle after the American Civil War. I currently use that when I hunt.

    It's good for shorter range to medium range thin skinned game. The round is sluggish and sometimes you can actually "see it" and you'll notice a significant drop at range.

    Ok thanks :-D Ive shot many .38's with winchester action and its got a satisfying feel cocking it :-D
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  12. #11  
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    The Winchester .270 the 6.8mm SPC is based on is a good round, It has more stopping power and better penetration that the 5.56 and a flat trajectory. It should be effective when fired in burst mode from M-16s and lighter weapons.

    The 5.56mm is good for suppressive fire but is a bit light.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    on the subject of ammo, could someone tell me what a 30/30 150 shell is and what its primarily used for? Is it military or commercial?
    A .30-30 or alternatively (and originally) .30 Winchester Center Fire is an old rifle round. It dates from 1895, when it was introduced as a 'smokeless' powder round for the 1894 Winchester rifle (introduced the year prior, obiously.)

    The title '.30-30' indicates a 30 caliber bullet diameter and a black powder charge (old habits being hard to break) of 30 grains of powder as a propellent charge. The '150' you mention is the bullet weight of 150 grains which translates to 9.7 grams or .34 ounces, depending how you think. The other traditional factory loading for this round is 170 grains.

    As Wilhelm said, it is a modest round. The pressure levels are very mild and velocity runs in the 2200 to 2400 feet per second range, depending on bullet weight. It is suitable for small to medium game at ranges of 150 yards and less.

    It is a commercial - hunting and sporting - round and to my knowledge has never been an official military cartridge anywhere.

    The casing itself is bottle necked; the body is wider than the neck (which holds the bullet) and is rimmed.

    Oddly, the subject of this thread, the 6.8 SPC is based on a rimless version of this round, an obsolete round (mainly because no rifles are made for it anymore) called the .30 Remington.

    Without attempting to give offense, I offer you my condolences regarding British gun laws.
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  14. #13 Re: New Rifle Caliber? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie
    Actually, it's been around for a couple years now, so it isn't new.

    Anyone have any thoughts on the 6.8mm SPC?
    Can you provide more info, on it's case size, bullet dia. etc.

    I do know Hornaday, makes the 110 gr BTHP/WC & V-Max.
    and Rem. makes a 115 gr corelock, & match king BTHP.

    There are no reload dies made for it.

    I know the 6.5 X 55 mm. Swed. Mauser, uses a .264" dia. 120 or 140 grain bullet. ( 2895 fps. Muzl. Vel.-120 gr.)
    As does the Rem. Mag. but with a larger belted case dia.
    ( 2984 fps. Muzl. Vel. -120 gr.)

    I would think, the 6.8 mm. is more like the .277" dia. of the 270 Winchester or Weatherby Mag.

    Where all the 7mm ammo, uses a .284" dia. bullet.

    The 30 cal. rimless cartridge is still made. For the M1 30 Carbine. Which uses the .308" dia bullet, as do the following;

    30-30 Win.,
    300 Savage,
    307 Win.,
    308 Win.,
    30-40 Krag,
    30-06 Springfield,
    300 H&H Mag.,
    308 Norma Mag.,
    300 Win. Mag.

    AND the NATO 7.62 X 51 that uses the .308" Winchester bullets, the ( T-65 cartridge being adopted by U.S. in 1954, as the NATO service cartridge) the 147 gr FMJ, being used in training, (low kick) and in the M-14, the 150 gr FMJ bullet for service use. And Rifle shooting teams fired the 168 gr 30 BT HP-Match, as did Marine Snipers.

    Winchester was making the T65, in 1952, for the Winchester model 70 bolt action and the model 88 lever action, it was 1/2" shorter than the 30-06, with almost the same ballistics. Which led to the developement of the M-14, for the Korean war, but only a few seen service. They were first issued to Marines in P.I. Boot Camp, in July of 1962 prior to the Rifle Firing Range, before that we carried the M-1 Grand. (That one time only, we fired both the M-1, for one day, and the M-14 three days, two days practice fire, and one for record. We held tighter groups with the M-14)

    The M-16, was a fiasco, to accept the 5.56 mm. NATO standard, because we had the M-14, Sako was developing the PAL, Russia had the AK-47, with NATO pact countries wanting a lighter rifle and ammo. While our Generals and Congessmen pushed for it, at the same time investing in same, both in the ammo and the manufacturing of the new weapon. A boon to all, except the troops.

    A Grunt with the M16, fire five times more ammo, then one using a M-14, during Nam. A marksmen with an M14, could find it's target at 300 yds, with the M16 you had to wait until 150 yds or less, where a VC or NVA with a Chinese or Russian, old bolt action could do the same at 300 yrds. or less. And then steal away with an M16 and ammo sling, during an ambush.
    The M16 was not about fire power, it was about money and greed, at the expense of men's lives.

    As for the 6.8 mm. ammo and rifle, there are too many better choices of rifles/ammo, for hunting N. American game, or as use as a NATO caliber.

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  15. #14 Re: New Rifle Caliber? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSage

    Can you provide more info, on it's case size, bullet dia. etc.
    Here ya go.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_SPC
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  16. #15  
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    Seen that thing go. Way more powerful than the 5.56. The 5.56 was developed to be less dangerous than the 7.62, can you believe such a thing? Make bullets less dangerous? Fortunately NATO is realising their mistake at long last.
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  17. #16 Re: New Rifle Caliber? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSage

    Can you provide more info, on it's case size, bullet dia. etc.
    Here ya go.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.8_SPC
    Harold,

    Thanks for the link, I had to laugh to myself as I read it, because of what I stated above, was pretty close to the data for 6.8 mm.
    I read and down loaded the pdf at the bottom of the page.

    This is classic !, see it is all about money, when interest waned in the AR 15 market, and ammo and arms are not being produced and sold.
    The industry, comes up with a new cartridge and rifle, that spurs interest and sales, and keeps people in jobs and working. These new weapons, are not that much smaller and lighter than the M-14, for jungle or close quarter use.

    Where that was the main aurguement against the ammo and rifle size of the M14. We that used it, had no qualms about it, on the firing ranges or in the jungles. In Nam, there was hardly any need for full auto fire, where 20 rounds could be fired as fast as you could pull the trigger, without being on auto-selected. In most cases the M14's did not have a selector switch anyway. I felt safer with the M14, than I ever did with the M16.

    Since then, for hunting the .308 or .30-06 has been my choice for N. American game, deer and smaller. Anything larger, like elk and bear, I prefer the .338 Win. Mag. (using Federal Premium Vital-Shok, Tphy Bnd 225 gr ), to put meat in the freezer, and have even done so using my .50 cal. muzzleloader inline rifle, (using Maxi Ball, 320 gr or 295 gr Power Belt lead), in dense brush and woods out to 150 yds. with a clear shot.

    I stand corrected, Lymen does make dies for the 6.8 SPC !!

    8)
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