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Thread: More SEAL team 6, less bombs.

  1. #1 More SEAL team 6, less bombs. 
    Your Mama! GiantEvil's Avatar
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    I understand that people are uncomfortable with extrajudicial killings, but, bombs have never been able to discriminate between children, shepherds, wedding parties, and actual armed enemies.
    Contemporary, ninja like, special forces can however discriminate between legitimate and non legitimate targets, especially at very close ranges.
    I personally am much more comfortable with the idea of assassination as opposed to full scale or even limited war.
    One bullet, one dead asshole, vs bombs, oops, children, red mist.
    It would probably be a little cheaper too.
    More SEAL team 6, less bombs.


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    The historic progression of warfare has been largely about encouraging more killing with less hesitation. We pushed men into marching formations, because on individual initiative they would not engage the enemy. We armed them with longbows so they could volley from behind hedges, not seeing what the arrows do. This progression culminated with bombs dropped from airplane: you can burn the skin of children and thoroughly terrorize a nation into unconditional surrender, that way, while you can't have sane soldiers administer the same in person with a blowtorch.

    I would rather have a normal guy just doing his job detachedly, perhaps over a monitor, and not really appreciate the consequences, than have a deranged Rambo discharged and picking fights at the local bar.

    That's saying, given the necessity of madness, I prefer organizational madness over personal madness.


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  4. #3  
    Your Mama! GiantEvil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    The historic progression of warfare has been largely about encouraging more killing with less hesitation. We pushed men into marching formations, because on individual initiative they would not engage the enemy. We armed them with longbows so they could volley from behind hedges, not seeing what the arrows do. This progression culminated with bombs dropped from airplane: you can burn the skin of children and thoroughly terrorize a nation into unconditional surrender, that way, while you can't have sane soldiers administer the same in person with a blowtorch.

    I would rather have a normal guy just doing his job detachedly, perhaps over a monitor, and not really appreciate the consequences, than have a deranged Rambo discharged and picking fights at the local bar.

    That's saying, given the necessity of madness, I prefer organizational madness over personal madness.
    Seeing as we have little to say about actual policy, right now you get both.
    And how do you get "madness" from an organized surgical operation performed by highly trained specialists?
    Anyhow, even if a discharged deranged Rambo were to go picking fights at the local bar, it doesn't involve searing skin off the bones of children.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Bachelors Degree 15uliane's Avatar
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    If I was president, that would be my policy. That doesn't mean we should get rid of the bombs, because if a country wants to pick a fight with another (in conventional mode) we still need bombs and the regular guys.
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    Forum Ph.D. Dave Wilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    We armed them with longbows so they could volley from behind hedges, not seeing what the arrows do. .
    Really, perhaps you have never heard of the Battle of Agincourt

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt
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    The possession of really huge bombs by the superpowers has created a situation of Mutual Assured Destruction, which has led to a detente of any open armed hostility's between such.
    Of course the superpowers still engage in wars of proxy.
    A large nation should be able to maintain security with a stockpile of nuclear armed ICBM's, a contingent of special forces(ninja) with sniper specialists and their insertion and retrieval infrastructure, and a lot of spies. And a well regulated militia for home guard purposes.
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wilson
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    We armed them with longbows so they could volley from behind hedges, not seeing what the arrows do. .
    Really, perhaps you have never heard of the Battle of Agincourt

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Agincourt
    Good call Dave. I'm surprised!
    But yea, thats what would happen between my sniper specialists and a mechanized infantry.
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  9. #8 Re: More SEAL team 6, less bombs. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    I understand that people are uncomfortable with extrajudicial killings, but, bombs have never been able to discriminate between children, shepherds, wedding parties, and actual armed enemies.
    Contemporary, ninja like, special forces can however discriminate between legitimate and non legitimate targets, especially at very close ranges.
    I personally am much more comfortable with the idea of assassination as opposed to full scale or even limited war.
    One bullet, one dead asshole, vs bombs, oops, children, red mist.
    It would probably be a little cheaper too.
    More SEAL team 6, less bombs.
    Seal Team 6 has not existed since 1987.

    What the press calls "Seal Team 6" is the Naval Special Warfare Development Group aka DEVGRU.

    They are pretty damn good. I am acquainted with a retiree from DEVGRU. Very nice guy. Very dangerous guy. I am glad these guys are on our side.

    There is a place for special OPS. There is a place for bombs. I am not in favor of endangering SPECOPS people unless the mission requires it.
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  10. #9 Re: More SEAL team 6, less bombs. 
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    There is a place for special OPS. There is a place for bombs. I am not in favor of endangering SPECOPS people unless the mission requires it.
    Nailed it.
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  11. #10 Re: More SEAL team 6, less bombs. 
    Your Mama! GiantEvil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    I understand that people are uncomfortable with extrajudicial killings, but, bombs have never been able to discriminate between children, shepherds, wedding parties, and actual armed enemies.
    Contemporary, ninja like, special forces can however discriminate between legitimate and non legitimate targets, especially at very close ranges.
    I personally am much more comfortable with the idea of assassination as opposed to full scale or even limited war.
    One bullet, one dead asshole, vs bombs, oops, children, red mist.
    It would probably be a little cheaper too.
    More SEAL team 6, less bombs.
    Seal Team 6 has not existed since 1987.

    What the press calls "Seal Team 6" is the Naval Special Warfare Development Group aka DEVGRU.

    They are pretty damn good. I am acquainted with a retiree from DEVGRU. Very nice guy. Very dangerous guy. I am glad these guys are on our side.

    There is a place for special OPS. There is a place for bombs. I am not in favor of endangering SPECOPS people unless the mission requires it.
    I suspect that the actual average capabilities of any particular DEVGRU member is probably classified, but no, I would not want to meet one in a dark, or well lit alley, if they were naked and I had a gun in my hand.
    Of course these guys are to valuable to be thrown heedlessly at every meat grinder the nation encounters. And, like the rest of us, they are brothers and dad's and husbands and best friends.

    How many U.S military and civilian contractors have died so far for the purpose of killing Osama and Saddam?
    The current Libya situation, rebel and loyalist forces must look mixed up like the marshmallows in Lucky Charms from the air.
    One bullet, one asshole, Libya doesn't have nukes, what are they going to do about it.
    Wasn't the Top Gun school founded because air to air kill ratios had declined due to fighter pilot reliance on guided missiles as opposed to dogfighting techniques?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...ructor_program

    If the choice is between 1000 enemy combatant's and any one of our guy's, I'll drop the damned bomb on the enemy myself.
    When we start to talk about civilian casualties, you tell me who's children to pick.

    Every good toolbox has a set of wrenches for machine repair, and a hammer for nails. I'm saying let's understand the work and use the proper tool's.
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  12. #11 Re: More SEAL team 6, less bombs. 
    Time Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    It would probably be a little cheaper too.
    More SEAL team 6, less bombs.
    It's not really that much cheaper. There's a lot of money invested in their training. Also, I think Khukri has mentioned in other threads that a lot of what makes the special forces so effective is selecting the right candidates. In order to increase enrollment, you'd have to lower the standards for admission to something more soldiers are able to reach, which kind of "dulls the blade", so to speak.


    However, in Afghanistan I think philosophically the people adhere to a sort of "warrior's entitlement" about who they want to follow or make concessions toward. Demonstrating individual prowess in battle would go a lot further toward winning their respect than demonstrating more of our amazing technology. Demonstrations of amazing tech works better against a foe that respects science (such as the Nazis, or Imperial Japan, or the Soviets)
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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  13. #12  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    ~Bombs vs Teams of Murderers~ :?

    I guess you guys think the War on Terror is real. That a 2 dime criminal organization (let alone a terrorist one) could not have organized 2 killing sprees every week, 52 weeks a year, for the past 10 years, even if illegal aliens are entering by the thousands and that 2 school kids can pull it off?

    I have to stop looking at this section of the forum it gets me riled up everytime, to me its as if there was "Torture Technology" section.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo
    I have to stop looking at this section of the forum it gets me riled up everytime, to me its as if there was "Torture Technology" section.
    Some of the most inventive devices of the Middle Ages were torture machines.

    http://history.howstuffworks.com/mid...re-devices.htm

    The comparison actually kind of fits, except witches were the ones providing torture victims.
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  15. #14  
    Forum Ph.D. Dave Wilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo

    I have to stop looking at this section of the forum it gets me riled up everytime, to me its as if there was "Torture Technology" section.
    If you feel this way stop looking. Remember this " One shot , one kill, shoot to kill "
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  16. #15  
    Forum Senior Kukhri's Avatar
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    More SEALs is not unfortunately, an option. One of the rules of the special operations community is that operators cannot be mass produced. Every attempt to speed training or increase the number of candidates who successfully pass SOF selection processes "waters down" the now less special forces. There are a certain number of highly trained operators and their operational tempo is about as high as possible.

    An air strike from a Predator UAV can eliminate a target upon discovery. A safe and successful boots on the ground raid requires a great deal of time, preparation and resources. Furthermore, these missions are not devoid of risk to civilians. Two women were inadvertently injured and one killed in the Bin Laden raid. When the enemy hides among non-combatants, there is always a danger of collateral damage.
    Co-producer of Red Oasis
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