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Thread: Why does everyone hate the US?

  1. #1 Why does everyone hate the US? 
    Forum Bachelors Degree 15uliane's Avatar
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    I know the United states is contradictory, domineering, and just plain annoying, but why all the hate?? It would be great for some non-US opinions, although US opinions are good too.


     

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    Because of the way ignorance is often prized, anti-intellectualism is often worn as a badge of honor, and because of the way other cultures are not only completely disregarded, but misunderstood and treated as inferior. Part of it is due to our foreign policy choices, part of it is due to our internal policy choices, and part of it is due to the fact that we act as the leader of the world despite composing only a tiny percentage of it.


     

  4. #3  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    The apparent prevalence of the attitude "My country right or wrong."

    The truly gross ignorance on the part of the vast majority of US citizens of other cultures and viewpoints.

    More recently the truly gross stupidity in initiating a war on terror (a war that cannot be won) and in invading Iraq on falsely constructed grounds. (There were no WMDs)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    The apparent prevalence of the attitude "My country right or wrong."

    The truly gross ignorance on the part of the vast majority of US citizens of other cultures and viewpoints.

    More recently the truly gross stupidity in initiating a war on terror (a war that cannot be won) and in invading Iraq on falsely constructed grounds. (There were no WMDs)
    Well, unfortunately true, but I blame a great deal of it on an Australian named Rupert Murdock. Damn the lies, and the lying lie'rs who lie them.
    I was some of the mud that got to sit up and look around.
    Lucky me. Lucky mud.
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    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
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    I'll also just suggest that the thread title is perhaps too generalizing. Obviously, there are many people on this planet who do not hate the US. There is, however, a fairly significant amount of distaste and disgust to be had.
     

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    Forum Bachelors Degree 15uliane's Avatar
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    So if we pulled out of Afghanistan and the world, would their be less hate? I've thought about a hypothetical documentary I saw about if the US "vanished from the face of the earth". Although it was foreign, it was decidedly pro-American, and I got to thinking what would really happen if the US pulled away from the world.
     

  8. #7  
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    Most of the world doesnt' hate us. A tiny tiny % do.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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  9. #8  
    Forum Bachelors Degree 15uliane's Avatar
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    I don't know. Maybe it is just overplayed or maybe I just notice it more. However, I think it is apparent that we are less liked than the rest of the world than other nations of similar economic and political status.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by 15uliane
    I don't know. Maybe it is just overplayed or maybe I just notice it more. However, I think it is apparent that we are less liked than the rest of the world than other nations of similar economic and political status.
    Yes it's overplayed. But the why are somewhat obvious.

    -we are the military might and backbone for most international actions
    -our culture is probably the most successful at exportation around the world, a combination of advertising budgets the large base of international companies based in the US, our English and Christianity which are both very large internationally, and of course Hollywood.

    Now for the less flattering aspects.
    -despite our perceptions our government gives relatively less international aid than many other nations. The French, which ironically Americans like to criticize gives the largest per capita aid of anyone.
    -those same international companies often are overtly exploitive of local communities where they extract resources and leave nothing but destruction behind (as many do in the US)
    -Hollywood depiction of our culture puts us in a terrible lights showing us as selfish greedy people who treat their women or allow them to act like whores and prone to violence. Knowing little else about America than what Hollywood sells, I wouldn't want our culture either. (A lot of the religious right in the US see it the same way--and they should know better).
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15uliane
    I don't know. Maybe it is just overplayed or maybe I just notice it more. However, I think it is apparent that we are less liked than the rest of the world than other nations of similar economic and political status.
    There are no other nations of similar economic and political status. That is one reason for resentment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    Yes it's overplayed. But the why are somewhat obvious.

    -we are the military might and backbone for most international actions
    -our culture is probably the most successful at exportation around the world, a combination of advertising budgets the large base of international companies based in the US, our English and Christianity which are both very large internationally, and of course Hollywood.

    Now for the less flattering aspects.
    -despite our perceptions our government gives relatively less international aid than many other nations. The French, which ironically Americans like to criticize gives the largest per capita aid of anyone.
    -those same international companies often are overtly exploitive of local communities where they extract resources and leave nothing but destruction behind (as many do in the US)
    -Hollywood depiction of our culture puts us in a terrible lights showing us as selfish greedy people who treat their women or allow them to act like whores and prone to violence. Knowing little else about America than what Hollywood sells, I wouldn't want our culture either. (A lot of the religious right in the US see it the same way--and they should know better).
    True
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Bachelors Degree 15uliane's Avatar
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    We are the military might and backbone for most international actions.
    Could that also be a source of dislike for other nations?
     

  13. #12  
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    The US might have been great friends of the Islamic world, as we rescued muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Afghanistan during the Russian invasion, and saved Kuwait from a fairly unpopular Iraqi incursion. It's our association with Israel that really spites them. As long as we remain supporters of Israel in any small way, they'll hate us as zionist infidels. Anyway, I won't lose any sleep over it.

    I stayed in a hostel in a recent trip to Ireland. Three French women booked a room with an American friend and I. The girls entered, hello's were exchanged in English and we tried to nap while the girls unpacked. In French, they cheerily berated us for a good half hour. Their main grievance seemed to be that we spoke only English (at least they thought so), they talked about silly stereotypes and saying they wouldn't be surprised if we shot them with a huge gun, they mocked my tattoo's and carried on until they decided they should go out for food. My buddy helpfully mentioned in French that a pub down the road had great fish and chips. Mortified, the girls stumbled over themselves apologizing which was pretty entertaining. In the end though when they found their stereotypes were unfounded, at least for these two particular Yanks. We all made friends and had more than a few pints of Guinness together.

    Still think they were dumb as rocks though.

    Quote Originally Posted by 15uliane
    I know the United states is contradictory, domineering, and just plain annoying, but why all the hate??
    Kinda get the same impression about you too.
    Co-producer of Red Oasis
     

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    Forum Bachelors Degree 15uliane's Avatar
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    I'm actually really patriotic- just didn't want to fill the cockiness stereotype.
     

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    When an angry crowd somewhere burns an American flag it's considered news and it's on TV. When American money installs a water purification system in a Mexican village it's not news and nobody cares except the villagers. It's no wonder the perception arises that the rest of the world hates us, but the perception isn't the reality.
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    As an American living abroad, I can tell you that MOST people don't hate American Citizens, they do however hate the American government. I have traveled all over the world and have not once been discriminated against for being American. I have gotten into some pretty heavy political discussions though.
     

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    Forum Bachelors Degree 15uliane's Avatar
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    Another person agreed with you, Bunbury, and I might have to too.
    Also Martian Monkey, from youre experience, do you think tha it is also american corporations and Hollywood along with the government like Lynx_Fox said?
     

  18. #17  
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    When a tsunami smashed the coast of Thailand who showed up in force to provide safe drinking water and medical aid ?

    When Haiti was flattened by an earthquake who came to the rescue with food, water, shelter, medicine and trained people to provide the aid ?

    When Kuwait was invaded by a neighbor, who threw back the interloper ?

    When New OrLeans was devastated by a hurricane, and New York and Washington D.C. were attacked, what was the response ?


    Whose opinion counts ?
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  19. #18  
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    [quote="DrRocket"]When a tsunami smashed the coast of Thailand who showed up in force to provide safe drinking water and medical aid ?
    We had the lion's share of the early response, because we can force project like no other nation, but weren't by any means the only or largest contributing government to provide aid.

    * Australia: $810m over 5 years (half on bilateral loans)
    * Germany: $689m
    * Japan: $500m
    * EU: $623m
    * US: $350m
    * World Bank: $250m (diverted from existing programs)
    * IMF: $1bn in emergency loans
    * Norway: $182m
    * Asia Development Bank: $175 (diverted from existing programs), $150m in new loans
    * UK: $96m
    * Italy: $96m
    * Sweden: $80m
    * Denmark: $75m
    * Spain: $68m
    * France: $66m
    * Canada: $66m
    * China: $63.1m
    * South Korea: $50m over next three years
    * Netherlands: $34m
    * Saudi Arabia: $30m
    * Qatar: $25m
    * Switzerland: $24m

    http://www.globalissues.org/article/...unami-disaster

    --

    When Kuwait was invaded by a neighbor, who threw back the interloper ?
    Many nations contributed in both men and money.
    --
    When New OrLeans was devastated by a hurricane, and New York and Washington D.C. were attacked, what was the response ?
    We didn't want the help, and generally don't need help from other nations.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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  20. #19  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    When a tsunami smashed the coast of Thailand who showed up in force to provide safe drinking water and medical aid ?
    If you want to play silly buggers and make it a competition consider that donations by the British Public exceeded 650 million US$. That was more than the contribution by the US, even though you have five times the population.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    When Kuwait was invaded by a neighbor, who threw back the interloper ?
    Ah yes. That would be the conflict where UK foces suffered more fatalities from 'friendly fire' by the US than from Iraqi troops.

    Your responses are precisely what leaves an unpleasant taste in the mouths of non-US citizens. Congratulations for reinforcing a stereotype. (And thanks to inow for destroying it.)
     

  21. #20  
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    [quote="Lynx_Fox"]
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    When a tsunami smashed the coast of Thailand who showed up in force to provide safe drinking water and medical aid ?
    We had the lion's share of the early response, because we can force project like no other nation, but weren't by any means the only or largest contributing government to provide aid.

    * Australia: $810m over 5 years (half on bilateral loans)
    * Germany: $689m
    * Japan: $500m
    * EU: $623m
    * US: $350m
    * World Bank: $250m (diverted from existing programs)
    * IMF: $1bn in emergency loans
    * Norway: $182m
    * Asia Development Bank: $175 (diverted from existing programs), $150m in new loans
    * UK: $96m
    * Italy: $96m
    * Sweden: $80m
    * Denmark: $75m
    * Spain: $68m
    * France: $66m
    * Canada: $66m
    * China: $63.1m
    * South Korea: $50m over next three years
    * Netherlands: $34m
    * Saudi Arabia: $30m
    * Qatar: $25m
    * Switzerland: $24m

    http://www.globalissues.org/article/...unami-disaster
    Depends on your source. Here the I.S. contribution is shown as $2.875 billion, the largest single amount with Great Britain a distant second.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanit...ean_earthquake

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    ]
    When Kuwait was invaded by a neighbor, who threw back the interloper ?
    Many nations contributed in both men and money.
    But nothing close to the magnitude of the U.S..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War
    --
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    When New OrLeans was devastated by a hurricane, and New York and Washington D.C. were attacked, what was the response ?
    We didn't want the help, and generally don't need help from other nations.
    True, but not really the point.
     

  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    When a tsunami smashed the coast of Thailand who showed up in force to provide safe drinking water and medical aid ?
    If you want to play silly buggers and make it a competition consider that donations by the British Public exceeded 650 million US$. That was more than the contribution by the US, even though you have five times the population.
    U.S. $2.875 billion
    Great Britain $2.058 billion

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanit...ean_earthquake

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    When Kuwait was invaded by a neighbor, who threw back the interloper ?
    Ah yes. That would be the conflict where UK foces suffered more fatalities from 'friendly fire' by the US than from Iraqi troops.
    9 British trooops were killed by friendly fire. 38 by enemy fire.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War



    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Your responses are precisely what leaves an unpleasant taste in the mouths of non-US citizens. Congratulations for reinforcing a stereotype. (And thanks to inow for destroying it.)
    And your Ameriphobia and distorted figures are precisely why I don't care.
     

  23. #22  
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    The figures I quoted for UK and US donations relate to contributions by the public, not government or corporate bodies. Even with your numbers there is still close to a 4:1 ratio on a per capita basis.

    Moreover your characterisation of the UK contribution as being a distant second is laughable when we consider the percent of GNP contrinuted by the US, in which regard it is barely half of the UK number and a quater of Eire or Norway, not to mention a 10th of Australia.

    The US contibution was large and important, as was the logistical support offered in the early stages of disastre relief. However, your boasting implication that seeks to denigrate the contributions of other nations is unwelcome and distasteful.


    I stand corrected on the ratios of friendly to enemy fire deaths. It still doesn't speak to well of battlefield command and control.

    And your Ameriphobia and distorted figures are precisely why I don't care.
    Amusing. I am, however, and Ameriphile. I have worked for US companies for the majority of my adult life. I lived in the US for 2 1/2 years. My daughter is an American citizen. At one point I contemplated settling in the states and eventually taking out citizenship. Some of America's achievements in the field of science and technology are stunning and admirable.

    This thread is about why some people hate the US. I have been providing examples. Those examples were not based on some insular, parochial viewpoint. They were based on a over four decades of living in an international milieu where I meet with multiple nationalities on a daily basis, where I have visited over fifty countries and lived in six of the world's capital cities. If you feel you can ignore the obsevations derived from that experience, go right ahead. That will go a long way to answering the OPs question.


    If the thread was entitled 'Why People Love the States' I could find plenty of items to list there too. (Only Disneyland would appear on both lists.)
     

  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    But nothing close to the magnitude of the U.S..
    "He said at Bush’s direction, he and other administration officials “went around the world with a tin cup,” securing $15 billion from the Kuwaitis, another $15 billion from the Saudis, and billions elsewhere.

    “We got this war paid for to a large extent by the people whose bacon we were saving,” Baker said. “This was the first and only war in the history of the country we got other people to pay for.”

    The U.S. tab was “$10 billion for a war that ended up costing $70 billion,” Baker said. “Yes, we paid our share and we lost 370 brave young Americans. You can’t put a price on that, but this is the first and only war in the history of the country we got other people to pay for.”

    Senator Baker last month

    --
    True, but not really the point.
    But neither can you ignore there were offers and some significant real support, such as $500 million from Kuwait, military equipment aid from Canada and Signaphore, lots off food sent from Britain and both rescue helicopters and doctors from as far as Singapore.
    There's certainly enough to be thankful for.
    --

    I guess I should arrogance to why other nations sometimes don't like the US.

    I should probably add that we are comparatively rude as well.
    Yesterday I returned from Thailand (through Japan), after spending the past three weeks in a multinational SE Asia exercise designed to share information, capabilities and international relationship building, all of which would help in another major humanitarian crisis in the region. One of the things I noticed, both during the exercise and during the several days I got out of the city and into the back country jungle and rice fields is universally the Thai seem generally friendlier and more helpful both among themselves and towards others (such as I). The difference between landing in Chaingmie airport and Seattle in terms was night and day--and Seattle is a pretty friendly place compared to many US parts.

    Humility isn't a US strong point.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    Humility isn't a US strong point.
    Mind you, I'm not sure you would have got to the moon with humility. And it was Kennedy's balls over Cuba and vision in setting the lunar challenge that made me love America. (Those were the days.)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    Humility isn't a US strong point.
    Mind you, I'm not sure you would have got to the moon with humility. And it was Kennedy's balls over Cuba and vision in setting the lunar challenge that made me love America. (Those were the days.)
    None of those are incompatible with not being arrogant or contemptuous of others efforts, or worse being deliberately ignorant or belittling of their assistance working beside the US to accomplish the same things, or just being rude.
    --

    It's really another topic. Yes Kennedy was brave but most Americans seem completely ignorant that the US wasn't completely innocent with the Soviet placing missiles in Cubu as a tic-for-tat for the US placing nuke missiles in Turkey. Both backed down.

    Having humility doesn't necessarily mean being weak or not protecting oneself. As a simple illustration, it's the difference between Kwai Chang Caine and Chuck Norris.
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    But nothing close to the magnitude of the U.S..
    "He said at Bush’s direction, he and other administration officials “went around the world with a tin cup,” securing $15 billion from the Kuwaitis, another $15 billion from the Saudis, and billions elsewhere.

    “We got this war paid for to a large extent by the people whose bacon we were saving,” Baker said. “This was the first and only war in the history of the country we got other people to pay for.”

    The U.S. tab was “$10 billion for a war that ended up costing $70 billion,” Baker said. “Yes, we paid our share and we lost 370 brave young Americans. You can’t put a price on that, but this is the first and only war in the history of the country we got other people to pay for.”

    Senator Baker last month
    That was a war. The outflow of $ is important, but bot a good measure of contribution. If $ expended were the measure, then one would say that the individual soldiers who fought in combat, but were paid to do so, contributed nothing, and in fact detracted. I can't buy that assessment.

    --
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    [
    True, but not really the point.
    But neither can you ignore there were offers and some significant real support, such as $500 million from Kuwait, military equipment aid from Canada and Signaphore, lots off food sent from Britain and both rescue helicopters and doctors from as far as Singapore.
    There's certainly enough to be thankful for.
    I agree that other nations contributed. They should. Thanks go to all who did. That does not change the fact that it was the u.S. who wqas there first with massive and time-critical aid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    [I should probably add that we are comparatively rude as well.
    Yesterday I returned from Thailand (through Japan), after spending the past three weeks in a multinational SE Asia exercise designed to share information, capabilities and international relationship building, all of which would help in another major humanitarian crisis in the region. One of the things I noticed, both during the exercise and during the several days I got out of the city and into the back country jungle and rice fields is universally the Thai seem generally friendlier and more helpful both among themselves and towards others (such as I). The difference between landing in Chaingmie airport and Seattle in terms was night and day--and Seattle is a pretty friendly place compared to many US parts.

    Humility isn't a US strong point.
    That varies a lot by region. You will usually be treated better in the South, West and Mid-West than on either the east or west coasts, and better in rural areas than in large cities. When I visit my hunting buddy in a small Western town south of me, everybody waves as they pass -- and I know very few of the locals. And no, it is not a one finger salute.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    Humility isn't a US strong point.
    That varies a lot by region. You will usually be treated better in the South, West and Mid-West than on either the east or west coasts, and better in rural areas than in large cities.
    Unless, of course, you're even slightly brown, have an accent, don't believe in god, find members of the same sex to be preferable as mates, drive a hybrid, watch soccer, accept Keynsian economics, enjoy organic foods and brown rice, or think that evolution and climate change are valid.
     

  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by inow
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    Humility isn't a US strong point.
    That varies a lot by region. You will usually be treated better in the South, West and Mid-West than on either the east or west coasts, and better in rural areas than in large cities.
    Unless, of course, you're even slightly brown, have an accent, don't believe in god, find members of the same sex to be preferable as mates, drive a hybrid, watch soccer, accept Keynsian economics, enjoy organic foods and brown rice, or think that evolution and climate change are valid.
    Now there is evidence of bias.
     

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    Hence, the wink.
     

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    My sister, who is a twenty plus year resident of rural Florida, and has lived in Nebraska before, is of the opinion that "Nebraskans are hateful".
    I am a long time suburban west coaster, southern Washington, proximal to Portland Or. I have lived in Nebraska also and agree with her.
    Nebraskans are hateful regardless of who a person is. With some exceptions I'm sure.

    If I were brown, I would definitely choose to live on the west coast. Just not too far from Stumptown (go Blazers).

    Probably the friendliest place I have ever passed through is Wyoming.
    There it is perfectly okay to not wear a shirt in a mini store, Wyomingites will talk your ear off, and they all seem to hate Bush.
    I know there have been some extreme examples of prejudice originate in Wyoming (*1), but Wyoming was also one of the first places a black person could gain employment just after the Civil War, generally as a cowboy.
    Wyoming was also one of the first states to give women the vote. (*2)
    *1; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard.
    *2; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women's..._United_States
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    Wyomingites will talk your ear off, and they all seem to hate Bush.
    You didn't run into Dick Cheney then?
     

  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    But nothing close to the magnitude of the U.S..
    "He said at Bush’s direction, he and other administration officials “went around the world with a tin cup,” securing $15 billion from the Kuwaitis, another $15 billion from the Saudis, and billions elsewhere.

    “We got this war paid for to a large extent by the people whose bacon we were saving,” Baker said. “This was the first and only war in the history of the country we got other people to pay for.”

    The U.S. tab was “$10 billion for a war that ended up costing $70 billion,” Baker said. “Yes, we paid our share and we lost 370 brave young Americans. You can’t put a price on that, but this is the first and only war in the history of the country we got other people to pay for.”

    Senator Baker last month
    That was a war. The outflow of $ is important, but bot a good measure of contribution. If $ expended were the measure, then one would say that the individual soldiers who fought in combat, but were paid to do so, contributed nothing, and in fact detracted. I can't buy that assessment.
    Even based on number of troops compared to size of their respective populations the US wasn't the only contributer. By that measure Saudi Arabia was the biggest contributer and English about the same as the US and Egypt not far behind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    Even based on number of troops compared to size of their respective populations the US wasn't the only contributer. By that measure Saudi Arabia was the biggest contributer and English about the same as the US and Egypt not far behind.
    1 Schwarzkopf = other guys
     

  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    Probably the friendliest place I have ever passed through is Wyoming.
    That's because you were passing through. 8)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by GiantEvil
    Probably the friendliest place I have ever passed through is Wyoming.
    That's because you were passing through. 8)
    Nope.

    I'll tell you just how friendly the U.S. West can be. A Scottish friend showed up on the 4th of July wearing one of those cute little skirts you guys wear, with a very dull dirk stuck in his sock. Everybody had guns (we were shooting sporting clays). Everybody was amused.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    A Scottish friend showed up on the 4th of July wearing one of those cute little skirts you guys wear,
    Ah yes. The Fourth of July, British Thanksgiving Day. :wink:
     

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    Since we’re into anecdotes, I add one of mine.

    On the ferry from Falmouth to St. Mawes (Cornwall, southwest England) with family, off to visit Henry VIII’s castle there. The boat was a small open one and we noticed it was flying the Stars and Stripes on its mast. I asked the skipper why and he pointed out that it was the 4th of July and said “It’s America’s day so I thought I’d fly their flag.” It brought a tear to my eye, it did.

    And back here in the States we had French house guests last summer, who remarked on how friendly Americans are. We even met some Americans on Trail Ridge Road who conversed in good French with our folks.
     

  39. #38  
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    When you think of how many international flights depart from or enter by way of New York, .... I wonder what kind of impression that gives people abroad.
     

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    I think about that too, whenever I see someone that is from a different country.
     

  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    When you think of how many international flights depart from or enter by way of New York, .... I wonder what kind of impression that gives people abroad.
    Quote Originally Posted by 15uliane
    I think about that too, whenever I see someone that is from a different country.
    I don't follow your logic. Can either of you elaborate?

    Even though international flights leave from NY (or SFO, etc.), they carry a fairly large percentage of people from the interior of the US (who had to first take a flight from their home region to the airports which have international flights). I'd challenge (what I presume is) your assumption that these flights carry mostly NY'ers, and then I'd further challenge that this somehow sets a negative impression abroad.
     

  42. #41  
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    I cant speak for kojax, and I can see why wha I wroe doesnt make sense, but what I was talking about is the impression foriegners have of the US and what impression we give them abroad. I took kojaxs comment to promt some thinking about the amount of contact Us citizens and non US citizens have.
     

  43. #42  
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    Quote Originally Posted by inow
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    When you think of how many international flights depart from or enter by way of New York, .... I wonder what kind of impression that gives people abroad.
    Quote Originally Posted by 15uliane
    I think about that too, whenever I see someone that is from a different country.
    I don't follow your logic. Can either of you elaborate?

    Even though international flights leave from NY (or SFO, etc.), they carry a fairly large percentage of people from the interior of the US (who had to first take a flight from their home region to the airports which have international flights). I'd challenge (what I presume is) your assumption that these flights carry mostly NY'ers, and then I'd further challenge that this somehow sets a negative impression abroad.
    I'm more looking at the foreigners' experience passing through New York, and less at the number of New Yorkers who must be traveling abroad (probably not a disproportionate number of them do). I'm sure a lot of travelers end up staying the night in order to connect up their flights. That would mean that New Yorkers are the first people they come across on their trip into the USA, may be the last ones they see before leaving too.

    It's a very cosmopolitan city, so I'm sure that's not the worst thing. Anyway, I have a friend from Ukraine who pointed out to me the other day that, no matter how rude I may think New Yorkers are, it is nothing compared to the rudeness of Ukrainians or Russians in their homeland. At least New Yorkers refrain from cutting in line.
     

  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    At least New Yorkers refrain from cutting in line.
    Many New Yorkers may be brusque, but relatively few are suicidal.
     

  45. #44  
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    Foreigners visiting New York know what to expect. Seinfeld has been on tv all over the world.
     

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    You won't find much love for American governments past and present outside of the US. Foreign Policy and corporate globalisation has only served to generate hatred towards America.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blink
    Foreign Policy and corporate globalisation has only served to generate hatred towards America.
    Interesting. Even those policies where we ship medicine, food, and aid to people who need it, and where we contribute vast resources to rebuild after natural disasters? Even when globalization has brought better prosperity to poor regions, and allowed families to get out of poverty, become better educated, better fed, more healthy, and overall more happy?

    Fascinating.


    All people who make generalizations like this are always mentally ill and wrong, every single one of them, all of the time, it's the only possibility.
     

  48. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by inow

    All people who make generalizations like this are always mentally ill and wrong, every single one of them, all of the time, it's the only possibility.
    Stupid and wrong might suffice, don't you think ?
     

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    In 2006, Reader's Digest did a little experiment that found New York city to be the "most polite" of the 36 cities in 35 countries surveyed. The Americans were most likely to open doors for strangers, say thank you and help pick up dropped papers.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13452608/ns/us_news-life/
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  50. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Quote Originally Posted by inow

    All people who make generalizations like this are always mentally ill and wrong, every single one of them, all of the time, it's the only possibility.
    Stupid and wrong might suffice, don't you think ?
    Absolutely, but the softer descriptor would have made my intended point perhaps less obvious.
     

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    I think most people who are in some ways opposed to the US are against its government or policy (mostly foreign) and not agaist the general population

    Some videos that may answer the question: "Why do some hate the US?"

    1)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwqkvF7umpk
    (US foreign policy and politics)

    2)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Xa8Irev2E
    (US and Latin America)

    3)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yLMl...eature=related
    (Fight vs terrorism)
     

  52. #51  
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    USA = In everyone's business
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    Imagination is key to the logic of thought, a greatest eternal truth.

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  53. #52 Incorrect Premise 
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    The world does not hate the United States. The Left hates the United States, both here in the U. S. and abroad.

    I worked for many years as a Customs Inspector/Officer of the United States. I've met people coming to the U. S. from pretty much every country on Earth. People come here - from other nations - for one of four reasons.

    They come to do business. By doing business with companies in the U. S., they are able to generate a profit in their business at home. Many, many foreign businesses have bank accounts in the U. S. because our banks are trusted more than many other countries. They don't hate the U. S. particularly. They may resent the difference between the U. S. and their homeland, but they surely do not want the U. S. to collapse.

    They come to visit. People come here to see the sights - both natural wonders like the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone and Disneyland - and find out what America is about. People from all over the world want to see the United States and meet U. S. people. They don't hate the U. S. They may love their homeland more - and I fully understand that - but they do not hate the U. S. or U. S. people.

    They come to live here. Anyone know of ANY country on Earth that has more immigrants than the U. S.? Legal or illegal? How many native born U. S. citizens emigrate from the U. S. and take up citizenship in other lands? There are some, but compared to other nations on Earth, not very many. The ones who come here to live don't hate this country. Some few (our President's aunt comes to mind) may despise our 'softness' for rolling over and giving them tax payer funds, but they want this country to stay viable. Most immigrants love living here and want the U. S. to prosper.

    They come here to commit acts of terrorism. Like the twenty Muslims who came to the U. S. to attack the World Trade Towers. They hated us. They hated - still hate - our freedoms, our prosperity, our national decency and the fact we are a great nation while other nations operating under other systems - Sharia Law, for instance; in the past communism and fascism - are relative sink holes of poverty and misery. Okay, those people don't like us. They hate for being what they are not.

    Read the papers from other nations and see the actual criticisms leveled at the U. S. It is the Left - the socialists, communists and Marxists - and the Islamics - who hate us.
    The universe is a real place. However, you can't see it, you have to imagine it. Like it or not, God designed, built and sustains the Universe. Deal with it.
     

  54. #53  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15uliane View Post
    I know the United states is contradictory, domineering, and just plain annoying, but why all the hate?? It would be great for some non-US opinions, although US opinions are good too.
    Because Americans think in black and white. As proof I present the opening post.
    "Kill them all and let God sort them out."

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    ............the reason america is really hated especially here in pakistan n afghanistan is simply becouse of the so called war on terror..............this war in afghanistan poses many strategic threats to south asian countries..........and bro..when u attack a country.... u cant expect to be loved.... ..most of the south asian countries cannot fight the might of the US but they can use the mighty media at thier disposal
     

  56. #55  
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    I think politics sucks...led by their cohorts in the press(murdock ) and all those greedy capitalist pigs who want....more and more...hope they choke on their paper..before they bring us to destruction
     

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    Simple- because Islam is a crock of shit ideology
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martian_Monkey View Post
    As an American living abroad, I can tell you that MOST people don't hate American Citizens, they do however hate the American government. I have traveled all over the world and have not once been discriminated against for being American. I have gotten into some pretty heavy political discussions though.
    Fair number of Americans hate their government too, across political spectrum nowadays. Is time ripe for REVOLUTION?

    Power To The People!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizzlooney View Post
    Simple- because Islam is a crock of shit ideology
    Islam is obedience to God's will. Is same God which grants inalienable rights under United States Constitution:""The law of the Creator, which invests every human being with an inalienable title to freedom, cannot be repealed by any interior law which asserts that man is property."- Chief Justice of United States Supreme Court Salmon P. Chase

    Is this, too, a "crock of shit ideology"? If so, why?
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by inow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Quote Originally Posted by inow

    All people who make generalizations like this are always mentally ill and wrong, every single one of them, all of the time, it's the only possibility.
    Stupid and wrong might suffice, don't you think ?
    Absolutely, but the softer descriptor would have made my intended point perhaps less obvious.
    Sounds like Dawkins here.

    “It is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is either ignorant, stupid, or insane.”

    A generalization of sorts, agreed?
    The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it.- Thucydides
     

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    God Bless America.
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  62. #61  
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizzlooney View Post
    Simple- because Islam is a crock of shit ideology
    I do agree .
    Latinos are Republican. They just don't know it yet.
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  63. #62  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Finger Prince View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzlooney View Post
    Simple- because Islam is a crock of shit ideology
    Islam is obedience to God's will. Is same God which grants inalienable rights under United States Constitution:""The law of the Creator, which invests every human being with an inalienable title to freedom, cannot be repealed by any interior law which asserts that man is property."- Chief Justice of United States Supreme Court Salmon P. Chase

    Is this, too, a "crock of shit ideology"? If so, why?
    He's described as the same god, because doing so is the only way to simultaneously entertain both ideologies as being potentially correct. In all other respects he/she/it is a very different God. His/her/its whole personality changes when you go from one group to the other. Not saying he/she/it isn't equally flawed in both faiths, but he/she/it is flawed in very different ways.

    Examples:

    The Christian God voluntarily suffered the ultimate humiliation, being hung naked on a cross in the course of a public Roman execution. The Muslim God goes ballistic whenever anyone says anything the least disrespectful about him/it/her-self or Muhammad.

    The Christian God teaches to love your enemies. The Muslim God has institutionalized Jihads. (Not saying Christians haven't had their fair share of holy wars, but their holy scriptures do not tell them to do so.)

    Islam has institutionalized rape, with a portion of the female prisoners of a war being assigned to the warriors as part of the the spoils of war. I really can't find a parallel for that in Christianity..... not that rape doesn't still happen.

    Islam Question and Answer - Intercourse with female prisoners of war

    Ex-Muslims • View topic - Sexual Attrocities in Islam

    They're definitely different gods. For the most part, Christians have to disobey their faith in order to do horrible things, while Muslims are obeying their faith fully when they do horrible things. I suppose the major advantage is that at least in Islam there's less cognitive dissonance.

    Now the bad thing about Christianity, which makes it equally flawed is: grace!!! There's so much forgiveness, and it's thrown around like candy, so pretty much the entirety of the moral code is optional. - Like I said: both equally flawed.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
     

  64. #63  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Finger Prince View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by inow View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRocket
    Quote Originally Posted by inow

    All people who make generalizations like this are always mentally ill and wrong, every single one of them, all of the time, it's the only possibility.
    Stupid and wrong might suffice, don't you think ?
    Absolutely, but the softer descriptor would have made my intended point perhaps less obvious.
    Sounds like Dawkins here.

    “It is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is either ignorant, stupid, or insane.”

    A generalization of sorts, agreed?
    Asserting that one is ignorant is not necessarily derogatory. Whether or not it's a generalization is irrelevant. In the vast majority of cases, one of those three descriptors is entirely accurate.

    Regardless, not sure why you saw parallels to Dawkins in my comments. You will often see what you're searching for, I suppose, but that doesn't mean you've actually found anything.
     

  65. #64  
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    Wondering why this became a religious thread. Perceptions and disdain for US foreign policy, wealth, and cultural dominance, where it exist, are not unique to Islamic nations, nor is America a Christian government.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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  66. #65  
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    Yeah. In reality, our religion is neo-liberal market economics, the belief that everyone who is poor got there because they deserved it, and the market will always sort the deserving from the undeserving. The proponents of the idea say it's too complicated to understand, but we should take it on faith that, whatever things look like, the free market is always making us wealthier than we would be otherwise, even if many of us have to go without basic necessities like health insurance.

    Christianity is just a hobby some people dedicate a few Sundays toward.
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  67. #66  
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    US is known for its CIA operation: supporting militia, toppling foreign government, and disrespect for other nations' sovereignity. For example: planting dictator in Iran (before the current regime), planted Saddam Hussein, inciting secret Cambodia civil war (as mentioned in History channel), bombed 80% of North Korea infrastructure thus creating the saperated North vs South Korea, supplying weapon to faction in Afghanistan as a tool to fight Soviet Union, supporting Israel unconditionally despite UN's position, toppled government in Cuba (if I'm not mistaken) to further own economic interest, and probably other covert operation that has strategic euphemism which obscure the fact of its illegallity (eg: "force multiplier" = to trains & supply weapons to local militia to fight own government, "operation false flag" = to give blame to somebody else/discredit them).

    Also if you watch the documentary "Under the Loving Grace of the Machine": ASEAN's 1998 economic crash is partly caused by US investor and US's policy to protect their investor regardless of what happen to the locals.

    I don't know why US has become like this... It is something that people always wanted to know.
     

  68. #67  
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    "Why does everyone hate the US?"

    thats easy to answer


    its because the US is part of an evil empire that murders, pillages, and supports; dictators, warlords, drug trafikers, money launderers, coup d'etat, torture, outsourcing torture, and so on.
    (as always, the US supports all of these when the secret services/bankers profit from them, and these are off the media-bandwagon radar, and bash those who are competitors/on someone elses team/independant who get the "the axis of evil"/"great menace" media parade)



    Ask a vietnamese whose sister was napalmed and whos father was blown up.
    Ask someone who voted for Allende and whose family was tortured and killed by Friedman's pal Pinochet.
    Ask an Iranian who voted for Mossadeq and who was tortured by the Shah.
    Or someone being boiled alive in Turkmenistan, like the dog that didnt bark you dont hear in the media about the bastards on the US side, because as Nixon or someone else said 'hes our bastard'.


    Look up Banana Republic, the US supports regimes that exploit people or pillage ressources for US corporations, and if the people rise up, the US bribes and corrupts, or supports death squads, supports a military backed coup d'etat, or if all else fails do it the old fashion way with the War Racket and help the military industry make a few extra bucks by bombing them.


    As was mentioned, many acknowledge the difference between the government and murderers that manipulates the population to support, pay for and die in the various wars for the drug and war profiteering US/UK/Israel Elite, and the citizens who are doing the paying and the dying, because of the brainwashing they get with the media propaganda and the false flag operations (like would have been done in Operation Northwoods to swindle a war against Cuba but which was rejected by JFK before he was assasinated).


    As for the goodness of foreign aid, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" puts a caveat on that.

    so these are a few hints why all over the world there are people who dont like the US.
    But imo, its important not to demonize the US to the point of missing the focus on the systemic nature of the problem.
    If you eliminated the murdering criminal Mafia godfather without changing anything else in society, another Mafia would take its place, because all the reasons and enabling factors why there was a Mafia in the first place would still be there.
    (the economic system and social structures are part the problem: money/dependence, hierarchy/institution, secrecy/propaganda)


    ~:~ edit: ~:~

    1- Religion, is a tool just like the media (propaganda) and patriotism are, and a red herring

    2- "sick puppy" -thanks Dave

    ~:~ ~:~
    Last edited by icewendigo; November 11th, 2011 at 11:39 AM.
     

  69. #68  
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    "Why does everyone hate the US?"

    thats easy to answer


    its because the US is part of an evil empire that murders, pillages, and supports; dictators, warlords, drug trafikers, money launderers, coup d'etat, torture, outsourcing torture, and so on.
    (as always, the US supports all of these when the secret services/bankers profit from them, and these are off the media-bandwagon radar, and bash those who are competitors/on someone elses team/independant who get the "the axis of evil"/"great menace" media parade)



    Ask a vietnamese whose sister was napalmed and whos father was blown up.
    Ask someone who voted for Allende and whose family was tortured and killed by Friedman's pal Pinochet.
    Ask an Iranian who voted for Mossadeq and who was tortured by the Shah.
    Or someone being boiled alive in Turkmenistan, like the dog that didnt bark you dont hear in the media about the bastards on the US side, because as Nixon or someone else said 'hes our bastard'.


    Look up Banana Republic, the US supports regimes that exploit people or pillage ressources for US corporations, and if the people rise up, the US bribes and corrupts, or supports death squads, supports a military backed coup d'etat, or if all else fails do it the old fashion way with the War Racket and help the military industry make a few extra bucks by bombing them.


    As was mentioned, many acknowledge the difference between the government and murderers that manipulates the population to support, pay for and die in the various wars for the drug and war profiteering US/UK/Israel Elite, and the citizens who are doing the paying and the dying, because of the brainwashing they get with the media propaganda and the false flag operations (like would have been done in Operation Northwoods to swindle a war against Cuba but which was rejected by JFK before he was assasinated).


    As for the goodness of foreign aid, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" puts a caveat on that.

    so these are a few hints why all over the world there are people who dont like the US.
    But imo, its important not to demonize the US to the point of missing the focus on the systemic nature of the problem.
    If you eliminated the murdering criminal Mafia godfather without changing anything else in society, another Mafia would take its place, because all the reasons and enabling factors why there was a Mafia in the first place would still be there.
    (the economic system and social structures are part the problem: money/dependence, hierarchy/institution, secrecy/propaganda)
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  70. #69 Thanks for the validation. 
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    The posts entered by icewendigo and msafwan prove my point. The ones who hate the United States, either in the U. S. or the rest of the world, are the Left. Non-producers, never thinking ahead, spend more time figuring out who to blame for their failure than working at success; the Left. Socialists, Communists, 'equalitarians', professional victims, beggars.

    Pretty obvious.
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  71. #70  
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    A lot of Mafia sympathizers say that the people who are against the Mafia just don't have the guts to commit crimes themselves. Doesn't sound a whole lot different. Sometimes "success" requires you to do things that you find morally questionable. Hard work is a constant on all sides of the fence. Conservatives don't have any kind of monopoly on that.
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  72. #71  
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    Right, kojax; Conservatives work hard at making a living, or a business or just 'success' in some internally defined meaning, while Liberal Leftists work very hard at taxing it all.
    The universe is a real place. However, you can't see it, you have to imagine it. Like it or not, God designed, built and sustains the Universe. Deal with it.
     

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    So a taliban whose family was killed by a US bomb is a Left Egalitarian? and he doesnt hate the US because his sister was torn appart but because of the US decency? and religious nut muslims(which is a red herring angle simpletons fall for) are on the left? I get now why there are people who actually support special olympics buffons like bush, palin and perry
    Last edited by icewendigo; November 12th, 2011 at 05:51 AM.
     

  74. #73  
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    I don't hate USA. But I really don't like the USA government. Many of the chosen leaders of USA gov are hypocritical, they promise and then they betray, they seem to to be human with principles but they actually do things for profit, they interfere for money by using the great power USA having, they claim their rules should be the only template as USA being most successful till now.
    They are greed emperors that must fall.
    After all, whether you accept the truth many people hates USA gov, you should really open your eyes, people learn USA, they study English, read and communicate with USA people, get into your life. Meanwhile you are still satisfied in the victory of WW2 and falling of Soviet Union and being the leader of this planet. Worlds are changing, old ways old views won't work.
    Asking why is a good start, but please don't stop when you hear a theory sounds beautiful.

    BTW:fizzlooney and Dave Wilson, although I'm not muslim, I think you should really learn more about the early era of Renaissance, see how Arab lightening the dark age. You kind of people just never think "why" using your brain.
    Last edited by wangwy13; November 12th, 2011 at 07:34 AM.
     

  75. #74  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    Right, kojax; Conservatives work hard at making a living, or a business or just 'success' in some internally defined meaning, while Liberal Leftists work very hard at taxing it all.
    Bill Gates: conservative or liberal?

    Red State Kids: Bill Gates Says Conservative Kids Should Study Math.

    Sergey Brin and Larry Page (founders of google): conservative or liberal?

    Google's Cash Cow? Campaign Contributions Good For America

    Mark Zuckerberg (founder of facebook): conservative or liberal?

    Mark Zuckerberg Invites Obama to Townhall. Bitter Clingers Not Invited. | Douglas Ernst

    Is it just me, or do quite a lot of the very most successful people who've done the most to create jobs and drive society forward, also just so happen to fall into the group toward which you direct so much disdain?
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
     

  76. #75  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    Right, kojax; Conservatives work hard at making a living, or a business or just 'success' in some internally defined meaning, while Liberal Leftists work very hard at taxing it all.
    Narrow minded, close minded, stereotypical fool would be some of the observations I would make if we were permitted to insult fellow members on this forum. Since we aren't I shall state that I found in your other posts you made a clear and reasoned case for the primacy of religion in your life and the clear need to distinguish it from science, whose source of knowledge is quite different. It's a damn shame your objectivity in regard to that difficult field deserts you when faced with alternatives views on how society is best structured.
     

  77. #76  
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    How could society, or the international system, be better structured?
     

  78. #77  
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    Quote Originally Posted by icewendigo View Post
    So a taliban whose family was killed by a US bomb is a Left Egalitarian? and he doesnt hate the US because his sister was torn appart but because of the US decency? and religious nut muslims(which is a red herring angle simpletons fall for) are on the left? I get now why there are people who actually support special olympics buffons like bush, palin and perry
    So, icewendigo, just exactly how did it happen the family of this 'taliban' was killed by a U. S. bomb? That's what started the whole Islamic expansion, the U. S. bombing someone's family for lack of something else to do? This was the origin of Sadam Hussein invading Kuwait? This was what drove the Taliban leaders to blow up the ancient Buddhist statues in Afghanistan? Perhaps U. S. heavy-handedness was what caused the Taliban to kill women publicly because one of their alleged males was 'excited' by her being on the street?

    Tell me, icewnedigo how it was your righteously angry 'taliban' decided to blow up the USS Cole? Or drive a suicide bomb into the barracks in Lebanon? Or blow up the embassies in Kenya? Whose family did we bomb to provoke all that?

    Please tell me about all that. I really want to hear your explanation. I'm pretty sure you can't, but I really want to hear the silliness you present as evidence or 'argument'.
    The universe is a real place. However, you can't see it, you have to imagine it. Like it or not, God designed, built and sustains the Universe. Deal with it.
     

  79. #78  
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    I see there's a lot of confusion between Taliban and Al Qaeda.
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  80. #79  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    Right, kojax; Conservatives work hard at making a living, or a business or just 'success' in some internally defined meaning, while Liberal Leftists work very hard at taxing it all.
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Bill Gates is pretty conservative with his own money - which he earned by his own acumen - and pretty liberal with everyone money belonging to others. Just like Warren Buffet. Yes, I know Bill Gates has some pretty impressive charities he funds, but he doesn't give nearly half his money to the government, does he? Warren Buffet is similar; talks for tax increases on the 'rich', which means nothing. Warren Buffet pays very little in income tax because he has very little 'income' of the sort taxable.

    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Sergey Brin and Larry Page (founders of google): conservative or liberal?

    Google's Cash Cow? Campaign Contributions Good For America

    Mark Zuckerberg (founder of facebook): conservative or liberal?

    Mark Zuckerberg Invites Obama to Townhall. Bitter Clingers Not Invited. | Douglas Ernst

    Is it just me, or do quite a lot of the very most successful people who've done the most to create jobs and drive society forward, also just so happen to fall into the group toward which you direct so much disdain?
    These are people who have done the most? Not hardly. Zuckerberg figured out how to get rich by having people pay him to talk to each other. Good for him, but his efforts don't employ that many people on a long term basis.

    Drive society forward? Forward or left?

    kojax, you'll find there are most 'rich' people who are Democrat and left-leaning than Republican and conservative. Leftist Democrats want to prevent working people from getting 'rich'; just stay at a moderate level to buy stuff and pay taxes. They are also the ones funding the "Occupy whatever" movement. You know, the Bolsheviks.

    kojax, you are currently performing the function of what both Lenin and Stalin called a 'useful idiot'. You support the cause while not understanding you are destroying your own future.

    Enjoy yourself.
    The universe is a real place. However, you can't see it, you have to imagine it. Like it or not, God designed, built and sustains the Universe. Deal with it.
     

  81. #80 Confusion? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    I see there's a lot of confusion between Taliban and Al Qaeda.
    Probably so, Lynx. Just like there's a lot of confusion between 'Democrat', 'unionist', 'leftist', 'socialist', 'bolshevik', and 'Occupy Wall Street slug'. And, oddly enough, for the exact same reasons: They're interlinked by goal and financing, and pretend to be doing what they do for a greater good.

    In point of fact, the Taliban are a more or less political party, primarily in Afghanistan. They represent the most basic and most stringent form of Sharia law possible. They hate non-Muslims, they seek to keep their subjects in an early Iron Age lifestyle and ignorant of anything else while maintaining a strict totalitarian rule.

    Al Qaeda, on the other hand, are a loosely formed mob of cut throats, mass-murderers and back shooters who hate non-Muslims. Their goal is to terrorize nations, cultures and societies into accepting the most stringent form of Sharia law possible. Ideally, the results they achieve will be people living in an early Iron Age lifestyle and ignorant of anything else under a strict Islamic totalitarian rule.

    Two completely different groups. But Al Qaeda has provided money and propaganda support to the Taliban and the Taliban has provided refuge and manpower to Al Qaeda operatives and causes. It's not like they're strangers one to another.
    The universe is a real place. However, you can't see it, you have to imagine it. Like it or not, God designed, built and sustains the Universe. Deal with it.
     

  82. #81 Objectivity? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Narrow minded, close minded, stereotypical fool would be some of the observations I would make if we were permitted to insult fellow members on this forum.
    Yes, I agree. Deophobes of all stripes fall into those paths.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Since we aren't I shall state that I found in your other posts you made a clear and reasoned case for the primacy of religion in your life and the clear need to distinguish it from science, whose source of knowledge is quite different. It's a damn shame your objectivity in regard to that difficult field deserts you when faced with alternatives views on how society is best structured.
    My objectivity is quite intact. Which is why those of the left really don't like me.

    Could it be the they think their indoctrination and inability to respond with nothing other than leftist ideology might be 'objectivity'?

    But I do thank you for the compliment you almost paid me.
    The universe is a real place. However, you can't see it, you have to imagine it. Like it or not, God designed, built and sustains the Universe. Deal with it.
     

  83. #82  
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    You had me worried after getting the entire 2nd paragraph wrong. A lot of Americans mix them up when in fact they are quite different groups. I'm glad you at least acknowledge that much. In its hay day, Al Qeada's primary and unwavering goal was to get Western influence out of the Muslim-Arab world--much narrower than most people presume and with implications that most Americans seem to have trouble wrapping their head around such as Al Qeada's abject hatred of Saudi Royal family and Saddam's embracing of western financial and cultural influence.
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  84. #83  
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    Archie your question makes no sense to me or I cant make any sense of it because of cultural differences. You appear to be confusing Taliban with everyone else and his neighbor.

    what does an afghan farmer have to do with Saddam , the US supported dictator who shook hands with Rumsfeld and had nothing to do with 911 and had no WMDs? (The only thing the Taliban have in common with Saddam is that they were also supported by the US before being bombed, had the red carpet treatment at the state dept and Unocal)

    (imo, Al Queda are as much a false flag front, US wack-a-mole bombing bait and proxy cannon fodder has anything.
    Hey Max, you guessed it we want to bomb a new country. No problem Joe, just pretend you are al Queda and hire a mentally retarded patsy to put underpants bombs and well say he was trained in the country to be bombed. Hey Max, look, that country has signed an oil deal with china. No problem, lets make a statement that "Neo al Quada of the coast reboot part 2" is now upset and well use that as a cover to sabotage a little while undercover, and we can bomb some more by saying we're fighting the al quaeda. Hey Max, we cant really fight Russia upfront in mini-republic x but id be nice to kill and murder just a little more. No problem, lets use a handler that pretends hes al queda and well recruit cannon fodder to go fight the russians as we did with the mudjaadeen. Good idea. Yep, a classic.)


    The whole war on terror is fake, if there was an evil organized terrorist organization, they would have had snipers go to the us without a stupid bomb in their underpants, once in the US (given illegal aliens enter by the thousands) they could have killed people at random from sniper positions, one shooting spree a month, every month, of every year, for the past 10 years. Nope. Nein. Niet. The war on terror is fake, and "War is a Racket" too.
    Last edited by icewendigo; November 15th, 2011 at 09:11 PM.
     

  85. #84  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    Right, kojax; Conservatives work hard at making a living, or a business or just 'success' in some internally defined meaning, while Liberal Leftists work very hard at taxing it all.
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Bill Gates is pretty conservative with his own money - which he earned by his own acumen - and pretty liberal with everyone money belonging to others. Just like Warren Buffet. Yes, I know Bill Gates has some pretty impressive charities he funds, but he doesn't give nearly half his money to the government, does he? Warren Buffet is similar; talks for tax increases on the 'rich', which means nothing. Warren Buffet pays very little in income tax because he has very little 'income' of the sort taxable.

    Bill Gates put 20 billion into his charity when he started it. At the time, that made it the biggest charity in the whole USA.


    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Sergey Brin and Larry Page (founders of google): conservative or liberal?

    Google's Cash Cow? Campaign Contributions Good For America

    Mark Zuckerberg (founder of facebook): conservative or liberal?

    Mark Zuckerberg Invites Obama to Townhall. Bitter Clingers Not Invited. | Douglas Ernst

    Is it just me, or do quite a lot of the very most successful people who've done the most to create jobs and drive society forward, also just so happen to fall into the group toward which you direct so much disdain?
    These are people who have done the most? Not hardly. Zuckerberg figured out how to get rich by having people pay him to talk to each other. Good for him, but his efforts don't employ that many people on a long term basis.

    Drive society forward? Forward or left?

    kojax, you'll find there are most 'rich' people who are Democrat and left-leaning than Republican and conservative. Leftist Democrats want to prevent working people from getting 'rich'; just stay at a moderate level to buy stuff and pay taxes. They are also the ones funding the "Occupy whatever" movement. You know, the Bolsheviks.

    kojax, you are currently performing the function of what both Lenin and Stalin called a 'useful idiot'. You support the cause while not understanding you are destroying your own future.

    Enjoy yourself.
    Starting new industries that employ new people is not moving us forward? Maybe you prefer the conservative approach, where people just gain control of an industry that already exists and run it into the ground?

    Bottlenecking oil is big business. Totally unproductive, but highly profitable. Mergers, leveraged buy outs, export of factories, government funded no-bid contracts, ..... all very conservative ideas. Innovative? Not exactly. Likely to create jobs? No, indeed quite the opposite. Likely to reduce them, constrict the money flow, and lower the overall productivity of the USA. Just because Republicans say they're big job creators doesn't mean they really are. That's the real naivete (or 'useful idiot' perspective, letting the regime claim credit for something it didn't do).

    The thing of it is, the only kind of person who can improve an economy beyond where it already was when they found it are innovators. Innovators by definition are creative people, and will tend to be leftward leaning. They think outside the box, and then the box expands, and the job-seekers get to be the ones to fill it.
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  86. #85  
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    Yeah "HATE" is a pretty primitive word. I wish at their political speeches or whatever they would use more then one word to describe there situation towards the US.
    With bravery and recognition that we are harbingers of our destiny and with a paragon of virtue.
     

  87. #86 Re: Why does everyone hate the US? 
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    I think that no matter what country you are hating on for a specific reason *ie torture, bad economy, unjust war* ,and think your country is so perfect, you are a naive idiot. Because EVERY country has it's dirty secrets, and inhumane acts. I'm american and I know that my country has fatal flaws and done terrible things, but that doesn't give me a reason to hate on another country and think mine is so perfect. So I think why everyone hates America because, they are ignorant and want to show it's flaws and mistakes to make-up for their country's actions
     

  88. #87  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 15uliane View Post
    I know the United states is contradictory, domineering, and just plain annoying, but why all the hate?? It would be great for some non-US opinions, although US opinions are good too.
    I believe it is as simple as all of them being the same concerning foreign policy, the United States just happens to be better at it than all of them right now.

    The United States rules the seas, they own the worlds trade reserve note, they set and dictate global policy and they will and do attack if and when there is a challenge or even a possibility of a future challenge to their foreign policy and/or global dominance. People who are in Nations that are at odds with or disturbing and challenging the United States are not going to have the greatest of lives. Many of the people within these nations will suffer through horrible lives and die horrible deaths.

    It is just the way of the world. It has always been that way and it always will be. Brutality, death, destruction and suffering in the eyes of governments is better served to your adversaries, enemies and challengers than it is to eat it yourself.

    Of course, this is just my simple opinion and take concerning your question.
     

  89. #88  
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    Mainly because of GW Bush's (White House). And their Iraq war.


    Before GW Bush's White House. There were only a few countrys that hated America.



    And before this White House, most of the world either envied, loved, respected, or feared (in a fairy good way), the United States of America.


    This is how it mainly happened,



    After Sept 11 the whole world was in mourning because of Americas loss. Even Iran's and Afganistan's people were in the streets holding up lit candles, in memory of the Sept 11 victoms. And the Europeans were as well. And all of the highest ranking Arab religous leaders, were calling the Sep 11 terrorist('s), evil criminals who were all against Islam itself .



    Then this White House started talking about invading Iraq.


    But the whole world knew that Sadam Huesane and Iraq, (were innocent), and had nothing to do with Sept 11.


    And then while the whole world was watching, America invaded Iraq for nothing (and the rest of the world knew Iraq/Saddam was innocent.).


    Its just human nature, when a country attackes another country for nothing, it is going to upset people.





    I was watching this (awsome) tv show called "meet the natives". It was about this traditional (living) tribe of people, who lived on a island. And during World War II these natives helped Americas military. These people consider America to be their spiritual brother, and they credit America for the peace that they live in today.


    And after the Iraq war, people living around these traditional natives, started to tell them, "America is a bully" and "America attacks countrys for nothing."



    These traditional peoples highest chief, sent a group of his people to America, to talk to Americas highest leaders. They were trying to talk to the president, but the highest they could get was Colin Powel. The chiefs son exchanged gifts with Colin Powel. Then he gave Colin Powel a speach, (that the highest chief told his son to say.)



    The chiefs son told America/ Colin Powel to "put away the guns, and live in peace, just like America taught us."


    This talk about America attacking countrys for nothing, has even spread to traditional living natives, that live on islands.
    (or as I respectfully call them, them boys from Tanna.)
    Last edited by chad; March 19th, 2012 at 10:40 PM.
     

  90. #89  
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Mainly because of GW Bush's (White House). And their Iraq war.
    You don't think the Bay of Pigs invasion, the clandestine support of Latin American dictators, the Vietnam war and the illegal actions in Laos and Cambodia, the ongoing support for Shah of Iran and his oppressive regime, the anti-Arab/pro-Israeli stance and other similar actions might have had some impact too?
     

  91. #90  
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    I don't like American swagger.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
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  92. #91  
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    [/QUOTE]You don't think the Bay of Pigs invasion, the clandestine support of Latin American dictators, the Vietnam war and the illegal actions in Laos and Cambodia, the ongoing support for Shah of Iran and his oppressive regime, the anti-Arab/pro-Israeli stance and other similar actions might have had some impact too?[/QUOTE]




    1.) the bay of pigs was in Cuba in 1961.
    list the countrys that currently hate America for this.

    2.) clandestine support of Latin American dictators.
    list the countrys that currently hate America for this.

    3.)the vietnam war.
    list the countrys that currently hate america for this.

    4.)US actions in Laos and Cambadia
    list the countrys that currently hate America for this.

    5.)support for Shah of Iran.
    list the countrys that currently hate America for this.

    6.)anti arab/ pro Israeli stance
    List the countrys that currently hate america for this.




    How many countrys are on your lists ?


    My statement was "the world hates America ((mainly)) because of GW Bushs White Houses unjustified Iraq war."




    If you would like, you can make a list, of all the countrys that currently hate America for the acts you listed above.

    And then I will make a list of all the countrys, that currently hate America for the unjustified
    Iraq war.



    And then we would see which (act), the world currently hates America for the most.


    And if you start to list countrys, I believe in the end the facts, and numbers will show that,


    "the (main) reason the rest of the world hates America is because of the unjustified Iraq war" - and my original statement was accurate.


    I apologize if I was rude,
    Chad.
    Last edited by chad; March 19th, 2012 at 08:08 PM.
     

  93. #92  
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    Mr. Moderator,

    I dont know what you mean by American swagger ?
     

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    My view comes from sitting around the table at international conferences.

    As a general rule, no always but often true, US citizens are oblivious to other cultures. They simply believe there is only one culture, one world view, and that is the American way. Bob Dylan summed it up well.

    Oh my name it is nothin'
    My age it means less
    The country I come from
    Is called the Midwest
    I's taught and brought up there
    The laws to abide
    And that land that I live in
    Has God on its side.

    Oh the history books tell it
    They tell it so well
    The cavalries charged
    The Indians fell
    The cavalries charged
    The Indians died
    Oh the country was young
    With God on its side.

    Oh the Spanish-American
    War had its day
    And the Civil War too
    Was soon laid away
    And the names of the heroes
    I's made to memorize
    With guns in their hands
    And God on their side.

    Oh the First World War, boys
    It closed out its fate
    The reason for fighting
    I never got straight
    But I learned to accept it
    Accept it with pride
    For you don't count the dead
    When God's on your side.

    When the Second World War
    Came to an end
    We forgave the Germans
    And we were friends
    Though they murdered six million
    In the ovens they fried
    The Germans now too
    Have God on their side.

    I've learned to hate Russians
    All through my whole life
    If another war starts
    It's them we must fight
    To hate them and fear them
    To run and to hide
    And accept it all bravely
    With God on my side.

    But now we got weapons
    Of the chemical dust
    If fire them we're forced to
    Then fire them we must
    One push of the button
    And a shot the world wide
    And you never ask questions
    When God's on your side.

    In a many dark hour
    I've been thinkin' about this
    That Jesus Christ
    Was betrayed by a kiss
    But I can't think for you
    You'll have to decide
    Whether Judas Iscariot
    Had God on his side.

    So now as I'm leavin'
    I'm weary as Hell
    The confusion I'm feelin'
    Ain't no tongue can tell
    The words fill my head
    And fall to the floor
    If God's on our side
    He'll stop the next war.
     

  95. #94  
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad View Post
    Mr. Moderator,

    I dont know what you mean by American swagger ?
    You don't have to call me MR Moderator you know. KALSTER is fine.

    American: Of, relating to, or characteristic of the United States or its inhabitants.
    Swagger: A very confident and typically arrogant or aggressive gait or manner.

    I've never been there and only know what I see in movies, documentaries and on the news. I am not a fan of people with that kind of personality and it seems a substantial number of Americans have it. I know it is not restricted to Americans, also that not all or maybe even most Americans are like that. Those that are like that though, I don't like.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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  96. #95  
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    You don't think the Bay of Pigs invasion, the clandestine support of Latin American dictators, the Vietnam war and the illegal actions in Laos and Cambodia, the ongoing support for Shah of Iran and his oppressive regime, the anti-Arab/pro-Israeli stance and other similar actions might have had some impact too?[/QUOTE]




    1.) the bay of pigs was in Cuba in 1961.
    list the countrys that currently hate America for this.

    2.) clandestine support of Latin American dictators.
    list the countrys that currently hate America for this.

    3.)the vietnam war.
    list the countrys that currently hate america for this.

    4.)US actions in Laos and Cambadia
    list the countrys that currently hate America for this.

    5.)support for Shah of Iran.
    list the countrys that currently hate America for this.

    6.)anti arab/ pro Israeli stance
    List the countrys that currently hate america for this.




    How many countrys are on your lists ?

    [/quote]

    It's that kind of generalized thinking that makes so many problems for us. There are no whole countries where every single last man, woman, and child all agrees with one accord that they all hate the USA together. Within even those countries that have open and friendly diplomatic relations there will exist individuals here than there that disagree with their peers and dislike the USA quite a lot.

    Our PR problem is with individual people, such as villagers in Vietnam who's parents tell them about all the horrors that befell them in the Vietnam war, or Cambodian refugees who remember the insane amounts of TNT we dropped on them, any given family who lost a loved one to the Shah's police during his reign. Some people in those countries did quite well during our periods of interaction. Others didn't do so well.




    My statement was "the world hates America ((mainly)) because of GW Bushs White Houses unjustified Iraq war."
    Bush certainly managed to add to our problems.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
     

  97. #96  
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    How many countries on my list - 195, that is how many,

    The only thing I can say is that the USA does a lot of good things too. But it would just be nice if they recognized that other cultures from Asia, Africa, the Pacific and the middle-east existed as well.
     

  98. #97  
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    It's that kind of generalized thinking that makes so many problems for us.
    I agree.

    Also Chad you are showing one of the things some cultures hate about Americans, our damn short memories. Don't you think there are still many people in Vietnam today, who were orphaned and lost their parents to US bombs? Do you think they are fanboys of America? Most Arabs I know (dozens) can say the names and locations or their ancestors going back 9 or more generations...what % of Americans can go back more than 3? While most Americans don't give a crap or don't think it matter, in some other cultures it's at the very heart of how people define themselves. If you'd bothered to read Bin Ladens writings and transcripts you'd realize he often evoked memories Western interference with the Arab-Islamic world--his popularity by some Muslims and tolerance for his views by most, was fueled by animosity for the West and destructive affects on their culture that existed well before 9/11. Our individualism is another thing that's difficult to understand for some other cultures. Japan for example is much more collectivist in their approach; imagine a child being chided for creatiing an amazing finger painting in the corner by themselves, while being applauded if they'd done something much less accomplished as part of a finger art with a group of their peers.

    Also, based on my own anecdotal experiences traveling around the globe, Americans are probably the rudest people on Earth.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
     

  99. #98  
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    Lynx Fox makes a good point here. These sorts of hatreds can go back generations, and in some cases thousands of years. You seem the same thing is bloodlines where families can hated each other for reasons that have long since disappeared in into antiquity.

    In short, the issues of become cultural.
     

  100. #99  
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    I see no reason to grovel in front of Bin Laden and his ilk, just because they are good at carrying a grudge for a thousand years. If you want to talk about thousand year old grudges, we could discuss the conquest of the holy land, Constantinople, the African slave trade, the enslavement of the Janissaries, etc., etc. The Muslims are pretty good at destruction themselves, having taken all the territory they now occupy by the sword, and subjugating every other religious group therein.
     

  101. #100  
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    Harold,

    Of course there is no reason to grovel to that evil monster, bin Laden. And all peoples take the land they occupy by sword including the Christians and the Muslims.

    But that is not the point is it?

    The question is why do so many people hate the Americans, despite the fact that they are one of the best civilizations ever to have existed.
     

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