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View Poll Results: Are cards dangerous in the right hands?

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  • yes

    7 41.18%
  • no

    10 58.82%
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Thread: Card! Are they dangerous weapons in the right hands?

  1. #1 Card! Are they dangerous weapons in the right hands? 
    Forum Sophomore biohazard87's Avatar
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    So I think that a card if thrown at a high enough speed could potetioally be fatal, but that speed would have to be at least 80mph. It could be a lower speed if it hit a vital point but I think the amount of acuracy needed for that would take years to learn.


    Noodles happen when you kiss a stranger in the alps.

    Mi padre tiene un impala.
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  3. #2  
    Forum Junior Lucifer's Avatar
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    Houm...


    What are you doing?


    There at the Physics forum you ask for a mean to throw cards at different speeds. :?


    Now here you want to know if a card can kill someone?


    Are you plotting a murder or what?


    “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” -Charles Darwin
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  4. #3  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Yes. What's the deal with the cards. If you wanted to kill someone you would be better to hit them with a club, or induce a heart attack. Then you'd have to move in with a spade to dig their grave. When the police came to question you, you would have to maintain a poker face. It might suit you. I have to hand it to you, you're a real diamond in the rough.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Junior Cuete's Avatar
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    Now I'm confused. Is it a physics project or you're secretly building some poker weapon of mass destruction?
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  6. #5  
    Forum Sophomore biohazard87's Avatar
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    [quote="Lucifer"]Houm...



    Are you plotting a murder




    No I am not ploting a murder. My project was sparked by an interesting discusion about wheather or not someone could be killed wit ha card. I said that I thiught that they could if the card could travel at a high enough speed. My friend said it was completly imposible, so I decided to do an experiment to see if a card could travel fast enough to go through something. I had to change the general idea, so as not to make my teacher think I was trying to find a way to kill people, and then my teacher told me I would have to change my project again. Seeing as how I figured that I would no linger be able to test to see if I could put a card through some solid object, not living, I decided I would just ask for the opinions of all the smart people here at scienceforum.com. I am not going to actually harm anyone or anything.

    Maybe if I can get a card to travel at a high enough speed, then maybe I will see if I can get one to go through, or at least lodge one into, something like a peice of plywood. That is all. No poker weapon of mass destruction. Sorry guys.





    Oh, and thank you Ophiolite for al the card jokes
    Noodles happen when you kiss a stranger in the alps.

    Mi padre tiene un impala.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Senior silkworm's Avatar
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    I'm not playing cards with him until I get a bullet proof vest.
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  8. #7  
    Forum Junior Lucifer's Avatar
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    Houm...


    Well, biohazard I wasn't hinkig fo a rla murder but of a plot (fro a story, or alike) involving a murder with a card.


    The point in moving a card fast across air is that it must be "flat" and rotating on itself. Why rotate? Because as soon as it starts traversing the air, will arise aerodinamicla forces; the part cuttign the air will behave as a leading ege and the card will roll over tiself and be perpendicular to the air flow... and will stop quickly. The only way to avoid this is to "shfit" the side of the card performing as a "leading edge", so the aerodiamical forces are neutralysed.. anyway, there still will be a resulting momentum which will raise the card, and any imperfections will create drag which also will tend to flip over the card and brake it.

    The real trouble of a card as deadly weapon is that it is too light and haves got a big surface, and so the air affects it a lot.

    Anyway, a good point would be to find what is the optimal combination of speed and rpms, the one which allows the card to travel the further. Or try sjut with spee.d To few speed, ti is ahlted before reaching far, too much speed and aerodinamic forces wil flip it over an will be halted too.

    But as deadly weapon... it isn't sharp and hard enough to be able to cut.
    “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” -Charles Darwin
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  9. #8  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    OF course you could used a card sized and shaped object made of say tungsten, or depleted uranium.
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  10. #9  
    Forum Sophomore biohazard87's Avatar
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    But couldn't it still kill someone if it could travel fast enough. Because there are a few people that can throw a card at 90+mph. I was thinking that if you got hit in the right area,say the face, with something moving that fast then it could potentialy kill you, right?
    Noodles happen when you kiss a stranger in the alps.

    Mi padre tiene un impala.
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  11. #10  
    Forum Junior Cuete's Avatar
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    Straight to the jugular vein... deadly.
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  12. #11  
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    I really think you would be better off using it as a knife then as a projectile. Freeze the card to absolute zero first, then try it.

    Ohh wait, better yet accelerate the card to the speed of light and I bet the particles would kill something

    Tornadoes have driven pieces of straw in to telephone poles (or so I've read), those seam pretty harmless by themselves. Fold the card in to a tube shape maybe.

    Left unaltered, not sure how much damage it would do much beyond a couple feet.

    LOL, I have no clue.
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  13. #12  
    Forum Professor wallaby's Avatar
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    they tested this on mythbusters.

    the card launched at a human would barely sufficient energy to penetrate the skin by even a millimeter.
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  14. #13  
    Forum Ph.D.
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    I saw that one - I can't remember how they launched the card though, or what speed it was going at.
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  15. #14  
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    Actually I found it:

    Playing cards as weapons (Killer Deck)

    Myth: an ordinary playing card can kill you with a powerful throw.

    Adam is really good at throwing cards (been doing it since he was 10), so this was a personal mission for him.

    Ricky Jay: card throwing "expert," author of Cards as Weapons, a book describing the use of the playing card as a weapon. He can throw cards up to 90mph (Adam can only throw 25mph).

    Adam wants to build a machine that can throw a card. He and Jamie face off in their competing designs, and as always, Jamie's simple design (modelled on a baseball pitching machine) wins out. Adam tried to replicate arm mechanics with a spring loaded mechanism and fake fingertips, that he admits was "over elegant." In Jamie's words, "Adam actually had a pretty clever idea. It doesn't work, but it was pretty clever."

    Jamie's design was pretty awesome. It flung cards through two spinning wheels at 70mph. I want one. One of the spinning wheels did break apart due to the 30,000 rpm speed. I still want one.

    The rebuilt throwing machine (with metal wheel) flung cards at 150mph. I'm not sure if I want the card throwing machine or the penny gun more (the penny gun seems more portable).

    They tested on ballistics gel to measure how it might actually penetrate human flesh.

    Ballistics gel experiment:

    * 1/4" with Adam throwing.
    * 1/2" with 150mph card throwing machine
    * 7" with pellet gun
    * 20" with heavy crossbow bolt

    After it was pretty clear that even the super gun wouldn't do much damage, Jamie offered to be the target for once. It drew a little bit of blood, but not much more.

    Mythbusted
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  16. #15  
    Forum Sophomore biohazard87's Avatar
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    Yes but another important factor, that I think is fairly inmportant, is the rps of the card. That is the amount of times the card can make a complete revolution per second. The tennis ball gun seems to just shoot the card out flat like this ------------------. Whereas with the spin it moves more like this --/--/--/. I am pretty sure that this spin is necessary for the speed and force necessary to inflict bodily harm as it brings one end down with all the force of the spin.

    I also think that the spinning helps with laminar flow, which gives it a better chance of doing damage.

    I have also resently been informed that the heavier the card, up to a point, the more dangerous it is. Like CD's, they are very dangerous when thrown the right way. Someone I know threw one not really trying and put a huge gash in the wall, and I did it and broke the glass in one of my picture frames (by accident)
    Noodles happen when you kiss a stranger in the alps.

    Mi padre tiene un impala.
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  17. #16  
    Forum Sophomore biohazard87's Avatar
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    In doing research on something very similar to this subject, I have formed a hypthesis that when the card, the air resistance is less, and the energy that is propeling the card is more evenly distributed and thus the card will travel further and could very well cause some serious damage.
    The motion of the card is affected by laminar flow, and most of what I have read says that the faster something travels the more drag is created, so if the card were traveling at above some high speed like about 120mph then it would also have a lot more drag so it would be very unlikely to beable to do much damage above a certain speed. So there has to be some kind of sweet spot speed. Below which it will do nothing, and above the drag will stop it from doing any serious damage.

    Me and my friends spent about ten minutes learning the exact angle and force needed to throw a card into the celling. It really wasn't that hard, and we didn't use that much force either. I'd say the cards were going at about 30-40mph, because it was all by hand, but we definately put like a whole deck of cards into the celling and some of the cards went in about 3 to 4cm.
    Noodles happen when you kiss a stranger in the alps.

    Mi padre tiene un impala.
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  18. #17  
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    The weight of a simple card is very very very small. Though when it hits the target it can be very dangerous. Its Tragectory can easily change for minor wind speeds. Thus a card is a useless weapon on Earth. :wink:
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  19. #18  
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    there are acually playing cards with sharp edges. it is supposed to be used for self defence, but all-in losses would also do the trick.
    I don't suffer from insanity, i enjoy every minute of it

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  20. #19  
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    Man, just use your thumb and crush their windpipe. :P

    Although, if your bent on using a card, I guess it could be possible, but it would be unlikely. :wink:
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by biohazard87
    In doing research on something very similar to this subject, I have formed a hypthesis that when the card, the air resistance is less, and the energy that is propeling the card is more evenly distributed and thus the card will travel further and could very well cause some serious damage.
    The motion of the card is affected by laminar flow, and most of what I have read says that the faster something travels the more drag is created, so if the card were traveling at above some high speed like about 120mph then it would also have a lot more drag so it would be very unlikely to beable to do much damage above a certain speed. So there has to be some kind of sweet spot speed. Below which it will do nothing, and above the drag will stop it from doing any serious damage.

    Me and my friends spent about ten minutes learning the exact angle and force needed to throw a card into the celling. It really wasn't that hard, and we didn't use that much force either. I'd say the cards were going at about 30-40mph, because it was all by hand, but we definately put like a whole deck of cards into the celling and some of the cards went in about 3 to 4cm.
    What about the mass of a playing card? Although all of the force is concentrated in a very small surface area, you're not Gambit just yet. And even he could only get away with it because he could 'charge it up with kinetic energy'.
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  22. #21  
    Forum Sophomore biohazard87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Wing
    What about the mass of a playing card? Although all of the force is concentrated in a very small surface area, you're not Gambit just yet. And even he could only get away with it because he could 'charge it up with kinetic energy'.
    I did think about that, and I do think it makes big difference, but I did not have the time or ability to test it. I think if I can repeat this experiment then I will test the effect of different masses.
    Noodles happen when you kiss a stranger in the alps.

    Mi padre tiene un impala.
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  23. #22  
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    I'm pretty sure it is impossible. A card doesn't have enough mass to really do any damage, except for paper cuts. Maybe is some one got all 52 paper cuts, they would bleed to death. Other than that, can't say it would work.
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  24. #23 Barely Possible 
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    Regardless of the Mythbusters test, I have been able to get penetration of approximately 1/4 inches of an ordinary playing card into a chunk of styrofoam at a distance of 10 feet; as well as stick them, corner-inserted, in foam ceiling tiles.

    The only reason why I was even trying was from watching the old Magician series with Bill Bixby. His playing cards were anything but standard; and I seem to recall one episode where he threw one that was supposed to sever a peice of conduit and the electrical wire inside it. I suppose that it was actually a peice of metal painted like a playing card, making it a type of shuriken.

    So it might be possible to throw a heavy card stock playing card, at short enough range, with enough rotation, to hit corner first, on an extremely frail and elderly person's neck (very thin skin), to nick an artery where they would bleed to death; or more likely, to dislodge an arterial plaque that travels to the brain and causes a fatal stroke.

    Beleive me, there are far more easy ways to kill a person.
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  25. #24 Re: Card! Are they dangerous weapons in the right hands? 
    Forum Ph.D. streamSystems's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by biohazard87
    So I think that a card if thrown at a high enough speed could potetioally be fatal, but that speed would have to be at least 80mph. It could be a lower speed if it hit a vital point but I think the amount of acuracy needed for that would take years to learn.

    Do you think speed has anything to do with the game being played in a casino..........or even in this even bigger house?

    The issue is not death, right?

    Some people suicide after a bad night on cards.

    Maybe ask what slows a person's concentration down............?
    Does a theory of everything therefore need to be purely theoretical and only account for the known laws and forces in handling the improbability of fortune telling?

    the www feature below can explain it better.
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  26. #25  
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    wouldn't the deadliest option be to bury the person in a stack of cards, soak it in gasoline, and drag him out and shoot him in the head?
    whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you! -Nikita Kruschev
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