Thread: need more pwr

I have an idea to get more pwr from ones car, van, truck or whatever but i need some feedback. The research that I've done leads me to the conclusion that the colder the air thats injected into the intake of any combustion engine the more pwr it can produce. What can one use to produce that kind of freezing cold temperatures to inject into the intake. and is that safe for long term engine use?--- the inventor

wouldnt hot air be better?, it converts more of the petrol spray into gas faster, so with each revolution, it gets more power out, or it can do more of them or something

Run your gas lines in a coil through liquid nitrogen

Use an inter cooler on the air intake, and use a large turbo charger to compress the air and it will yield the same results with less wasted energy. Use both and the compression could be too high I'm pretty sure you want somewhere in the range of 15:1 or so air to fuel ratio. If you go too far off that mark you'll have problems. More fuel doesn't work without more air and vs versa.

Use the larger turbo at a lower pressure as they tend to heat the air less during the compression stage resulting in more net power.

Driving around in Phoenix with 135F air coming in off the road really takes the punch out of most cars. The computers do compensate a bit but not always enough.

I'm not sure this topic belongs here. Perhaps general discussion would be good. Don't start a new one, we'll move it if needed.

The peltier coolers might work, however they would suck down so much power from the electrical system I'm not sure it would be worth it. Might be an interesting thing to try.

great thanks

Originally Posted by vslayer

wouldnt hot air be better?, it converts more of the petrol spray into gas faster, so with each revolution, it gets more power out, or it can do more of them or something

No, you want cooler air as it results in more expansion once the fuel ignites. If you go from cool to very hot the change in pressure is greater then if you go from hot to hotter. Also you have to be careful not to get too much compression or you'll shoot the spark plugs out the hood. Yes this has happen to many people That and many other bad things. It's why turbo charged cars have a lower initial compression ratio. The heads and such just can't handle extreme compression.

Adjusting the air to fuel ratio up and down a bit can yield more power or better fuel economy. Too far off scale just makes the car either not run well at all (too little power) or can flood it out with too much fuel that just dumps out the exhaust (if your lucky).

Nitrous is the best way to get that boost of compression on the cheap. It can also make spark plugs pop as well if your not careful

right. but now say now the average person who wants to throw 40 degree air dwn their intake but cant afford the 3+ thousand dollar turbo kit. so i was thinking of what would cool the air dwn with out the intercooler or nitro that would work for an extended amount of time.

Originally Posted by ziggynum1

right. but now say now the average person who wants to throw 40 degree air dwn their intake but cant afford the 3+ thousand dollar turbo kit. so i was thinking of what would cool the air dwn with out the intercooler or nitro that would work for an extended amount of time.

Well, you'll never get the same amount of return as the other methods. Your not going to get the 30-50% more power out of just cooling the air. 5% maybe..perhaps 10%. A good test is to just drive around in a very cool climate and see how the car does. I know once the air here gets over about 105F my VW starts to notice it.

I guess you could use a water cooled intercooler without the turbo. Also cooling the fuel before it gets injected helps a little. If it was me I would just "chip" the car to allow me to alter the ratio. This can produce a good amount of power as most cars are tuned for economy over power.

An intercooler attached to a supercharger would be ideal for a good power boost throughout the entire powwer band. Turbos tend to need time to get up to speed and must wait for the RPM's to get high ebough to give them the spin up they need to create their power. A supercharger with about 15PSI of boost will give you immediate power boost at any speed that's why drag racers use them and not turbo chargers on the fastest of dragsters which exceed speeds of 330 MPH. A supercharger is also cheaper to install and maintain over the long haul of your engine life and doesn't cause abnormal wear and tear to your internal parts of the engine when that engine is set up to use a supercharger to begin with.

Originally Posted by cosmictraveler

An intercooler attached to a supercharger would be ideal for a good power boost throughout the entire powwer band. Turbos tend to need time to get up to speed and must wait for the RPM's to get high ebough to give them the spin up they need to create their power. A supercharger with about 15PSI of boost will give you immediate power boost at any speed that's why drag racers use them and not turbo chargers on the fastest of dragsters which exceed speeds of 330 MPH. A supercharger is also cheaper to install and maintain over the long haul of your engine life and doesn't cause abnormal wear and tear to your internal parts of the engine when that engine is set up to use a supercharger to begin with.

True, they are great to have for the most part. The downside is that they use power to get power. The turbo uses waste gas to power the compressor, so you normally end up with zero loss and lots of gain. The turbo also tends to give more power at the top end then a supercharger does.

So if you want power from the ground up aka the drag racer then the supercharger is great. If you want good gas mileage and a very fast top speed, then a turbo charger is the way to go. The turbos do have that spool-up time, so never use a turbo to drag race. Use a turbo on the highway for pretty much free major power gain.

Turbocharers rule the highways. if you want power it is your best route. It all depend on how much power and how well your engine can handle an increase in power. Simple steps to turbocharging are:

1. Add turbocharger ( size appropriate fo your driving desire) The larger the turbo the more Hp it makes, but that all depends on the compressor housing behind the turbo. If you get a larger A/R comp. housing, you will yield higher horsepower gains along with more lag. A smaller A/R will yield less HP but in turn provide quicker spool up. There are also Dual ball bearing turbos that provide for quicker spool up due to less compressor wheel friction inside the turbo.

2. keep everything cool with a Intercooler and also transmission cooler if needed when forcing your engine.

3. Faster cars need stopping power, a bigger set of brakes is recomended.

4. If you want to keep you engine clean of carbon buildup you can add a methonal/Water/Alcohol injection system into the turbo for cooling also. see Dereks Meth Kit. This is like mixing race fuel with gas.

5. A boost Controller is recommended if sometimes you want to use more or less power

6. With a turbo charger it has excess fumes that wont want to be reused, so you can install a Wastegate that teams up with the boost controller to control that... preventing what is known as Boost Spike.

7. A turbo timer is a must, for it properly cools down your turbo with a timer when you shut off your car, preventing turbo damage.

8. keeping your intake in a closed off cool area is best for the engine. The faster cold air moves through the engine, the more powerful the motor is.

9. Changing over to a turbo will also require higher ignition spark for the plugs, so you will need an ingnition amlifier.

10. Upgrading your turbo and driving faster cuold also require you to change your fuel injector with high impedence flow injectors.

11. On top of all that you will need a piggyback or a stand alone Fuel management system. This is because with all of these modfications, your stock ECU, computer unit is not designed to flow that fuel. an AEM system can cutomize by 16 rows of fuel data input.

12. Another alernative to everything is simply filling up with 100 octane ( race fuel ) or C16.

I have no Turbo

I had an Audio 5000 CS back in the days. Pretty sure it had the dual ball bearing turbo, the spool up time was excellent. The top speed was also really good for such a big car. 155 mph stock. I miss the turbo. It had a very low drag factor, I think a big player in it's top speed.

Now I want a VW R32 Twin turbo.

http://europeancarweb.com/tuned/0401ec_vwgolf/

nice car..., But back to his invention. I think #4 on my list is similiar to his idea. Except the use of methane/water/alcohol... what it does is raise the smoking point of the octane by a mix chemical combustion. Not some kind of front or side mount intercooler strapped to the intake thats invented already.

Originally Posted by vslayer

wouldnt hot air be better?, it converts more of the petrol spray into gas faster, so with each revolution, it gets more power out, or it can do more of them or something

Charge cooling is good in raising power output, most engines (low-rpm < 7000 rpm) have particular port shaping in the cylinder head that induces considerable swirl and tumble, which reduces any inhomogenities in air/fuel mixture--and as my subject notes, the mixture is compressed as well.

I say leave your engine "all-motor" and you can get power by; close ratio gearing, intake & exhaust, getting rid of heavy extra junk you do not need to increase accelaration, reprogrammed Electronic Control Unit chip, head work, cams, etc.

However, nitrous oxide seems to be the most cost-effective means of power, and there is alot of misconception surrounding it, but if you do it right--it works (you just can not use it continuosly).

Also, if you already have a turbo-motor, consider water injection.

All in all if you want real accelaration () get a bike, although winter will arrive in the northern hemisphere.