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Thread: Hydrogen is our best future....

  1. #1 Hydrogen is our best future.... 
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Hydrogen can be recycled because once you use it , it returns to water, a perfect fuel and one that we will always have and anyone can get it for water covers over three quarters of our Earth.


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    It takes more energy to "crack" hydrogen from water than you can get from burning it, or using it in a fuel cell, so hydrogen is just a carrier for energy that you produce in other ways. It is difficult to store and transport. It is the lowest density gas, which means any pipeline will have to be larger then existing pipes, so the whole distribution infrastructure will have to be built from scratch.

    Several methods for extracting hydrogen involve using natural gas or other hydrocarbons, and with this method CO2 is produced.


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  4. #3  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat
    It takes more energy to "crack" hydrogen from water than you can get from burning it, or using it in a fuel cell, so hydrogen is just a carrier for energy that you produce in other ways. It is difficult to store and transport. It is the lowest density gas, which means any pipeline will have to be larger then existing pipes, so the whole distribution infrastructure will have to be built from scratch.

    Several methods for extracting hydrogen involve using natural gas or other hydrocarbons, and with this method CO2 is produced.

    They have found many ways to produce hydrogen including:

    http://www.nrel.gov/hydrogen/proj_pr...ery.html#water

    http://www.nrel.gov/hydrogen/proj_pr...ery.html#split

    http://www.nrel.gov/hydrogen/proj_pr...ry.html#reform

    http://www.nrel.gov/hydrogen/proj_pr...ery.html#solar

    http://www.nrel.gov/hydrogen/proj_pr...ery.html#renew



    Please read these and you might just change your viewpoint, if not then I will link you to other sites that have done even more research on producing hydrogen.
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  5. #4  
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    I'm not saying it can't be done, but all those processes are rather inefficient, and I doubt that it would be economical. This methods point to a strategy of using hydrogen as a storage device, as they mostly depend on solar energy as the initial source. Most of all, these technologies are being developed with a certain nearsightedness, as they assume that we will go on into the future with little change in our basic way of life. Best case senario, they will provide a short transitional cushion as fossil fuel runs out, after which, new strategies will need to be developed.

    Hydrogen itself is a greenhouse gas. You might say that no, it will be burned to produce water, but the nature of this low-density gas is that it is difficult to contain, it is corrosive to seal mechanisms, and leaks more readily than other, higher density fuels.
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  6. #5  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Here are some examples of storage devices that are ready to be used or almost ready to go on line:

    http://www.fuelcellstore.com/informa...n_storage.html


    http://www.bellona.no/en/energy/hydr...002/22903.html


    http://www.wtec.org/loyola/nano/US.Review/04_06.htm





    True it is a greenhouse gas but not like pertolium based products are. It is allot lees , about 100 times less harmful, than what we have being used today.
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    Imagine the economic upheaval of even a small jump in oil cost, such as what happened in the 1970's, and the small blip of the last few weeks, then think how the switch to hydrogen would effect the economy. Any way you slice it, it will cost much more, be less versatile, and require hitherto undiscovered technology. The very structure of society will change. The scale of hydrogen production and distribution will never match that of oil. Cars, if they even have a future at all, will be much more expensive, and affordable only by the rich. The infrastructure of roads will crumble with fewer people willing to pay for the maintenence. Horses, bicycles, sail power, dogsleds, canoes, and small scale electric and gas motors will replace what we have now. People will move closer to each other, small towns and cities will be revitalized, electric trains and trolleys will need to be built (or in some cases rebuilt). Small scale organic farming will replace factory farms. Obsolete technology will be rediscovered, wagonmakers will be in demand, and birth control will be that much more important.
    So sayith Spidergoat.
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  8. #7  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Then again as time goes by more and more people will be switching to hydrogen burning vehicles. That will ultimately lower the costs of vehicles as well as the fuel itself. If we realize that hydrogen is totally renewable and will be much better for the whole world as every country could produce hydrogen that has water. Therefore the money that would leave those countries for the purchase of petrolium won't be spent on that but on more needed things inside those countries. It will be very good thing for the whole world not just America.

    Of course oil will be needed for awhile until the synthetics can be brought down in costs but eventually oil itself won't be need except for medicines and plastic products. It is a shift just as changeing from horses to cars or from coal to steam. It will happen , it's just a matter of time.
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  9. #8  
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    I'm in favor of a more radical plan. Instead of replacing cars with hydogen cars, I say we stop making cars altogether. Existing cars can keep running, I wouldn't take your 1969 GTO away, but as the dinosaurs die off, the roads will be dominated by streamlined human-powered vehicles, with electric-assist for the hills. Along with electric trains for longer travel, and diesel locomotives for long range transport and hauling, this will kill two birds (or more) with one stone. It will end America's obesity problem, energy crisis, and pollution. Alternative energy sources can be used to power our downsized electric grid to recharge our batteries.

    Even without the pollution, the shear amount of energy we consume in any form must be bad for the planet.
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  10. #9  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat
    I'm in favor of a more radical plan. Instead of replacing cars with hydogen cars, I say we stop making cars altogether. Existing cars can keep running, I wouldn't take your 1969 GTO away, but as the dinosaurs die off, the roads will be dominated by streamlined human-powered vehicles, with electric-assist for the hills. Along with electric trains for longer travel, and diesel locomotives for long range transport and hauling, this will kill two birds (or more) with one stone. It will end America's obesity problem, energy crisis, and pollution. Alternative energy sources can be used to power our downsized electric grid to recharge our batteries.

    Even without the pollution, the shear amount of energy we consume in any form must be bad for the planet.
    Why not just produce streamlined hydrogen cars? Why use electric at all when you don't need it other to start the vehicles? Hydrogen could be used in trains as well instead of electricity or diesel which pollute our environment allot worse than hydrogen. I believe that solar and wind powered homes as well as offices are only a decade or two away.
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    If your supply of energy is limited, then personal transporation by way of 1&1/2-2ton vehicles makes less sense than trains. Why do we just assume that personal cars are the best way to get around?

    Answer: because for 50 years, we have consumed advertising from car manufacturers that equate cars with personal freedom, sexual prowess, and power.
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  12. #11  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat
    If your supply of energy is limited, then personal transporation by way of 1&1/2-2ton vehicles makes less sense than trains. Why do we just assume that personal cars are the best way to get around?

    Answer: because for 50 years, we have consumed advertising from car manufacturers that equate cars with personal freedom, sexual prowess, and power.

    Because cars will always be needed to carry people to places that they are going not everyone else. In order to have it your way, if fuel is limited, which hydrogen is not, we could build massive cities that are ecologically sound and are laid out so that no one would need a car for everyone would get to wherever they are going by some sort of personel carrier that would be programed to take them where they want to go. These types of vehicles would run on tracks or rails of some sort and be controlled by a mainframe computer.
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  13. #12  
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    Hydrogen is plentiful, but free hydrogen is not. I'm not suggesting anything more radical than a return to the way civilization was laid out before personal cars.

    In a way, we have caused our own problem by structuring our society in such a way that cars are needed to do anything, and we take for granted that it can't be any other way.

    We have built in mechanisms that are fantastic for short trips, we call them legs.
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  14. #13  
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    Some cities seem to be moving towards making the city centre a no-car-zone. The councils seem to be working from the centre out, with the goal of having no cars in the city at all, just a bypass that goes round the edge. Or at least that's what I imagine.
    Up the workers!
    Down Mcdonalds and their evil McCholesterol McShite
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  15. #14  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat
    Hydrogen is plentiful, but free hydrogen is not. I'm not suggesting anything more radical than a return to the way civilization was laid out before personal cars.

    In a way, we have caused our own problem by structuring our society in such a way that cars are needed to do anything, and we take for granted that it can't be any other way.

    We have built in mechanisms that are fantastic for short trips, we call them legs.
    Many problems with a "leg only" society. What if you get hurt? what if you are old and can't walk for medical reasons? What if you have to work and you need equipment to do your work with? What if you need groceries and you have 5 bags? Many, many problems with walking only as you see so that isn't the way to go IMO.
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  16. #15  
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    Of course, people that can't walk and children that tire easily should use whatever wheeled conveyance helps them, but why do almost all adults in industrialized countries feel they need the equivalent of motorized wheelchairs? What are we constantly zooming around for?
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat
    Of course, people that can't walk and children that tire easily should use whatever wheeled conveyance helps them, but why do almost all adults in industrialized countries feel they need the equivalent of motorized wheelchairs? What are we constantly zooming around for?
    We are constantly zooming to get things done. There are only so many hours in a day and the more time it takes getting to the place that you're supposed to the less time you have for other important things that you must accomplish. Take for example myself. I sometimes have 2 doctors appointments the same day and they are at least 25 miles apart. If I didn't have a vehicle to get me there I wouldn't have my appointment any longer and would have to return another day. If cities were laid out so that everything was within a few miles of each other , that would be more likely to help and let people walk more.

    You didn't address the people that are in need of equipment or tools to use for their jobs that I brought up, why not? I thought that was a very important thing that we need vehicles for to move around stuff with.
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  18. #17  
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    People that need to haul stuff can use sail powered barges, horse-drawn carts, maybe biodeisel trucks if they are emergency workers or police.
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  19. #18  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Why not use hydrogen to power any type of land or sea craft that would be used?
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  20. #19  
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    I guess you could try it, but I haven't even heard of an electric ship, only small scale boats, like tenders or fishing boats with trolling motors. I wouldn't want to have to rely on such complex and novel technology when I'm out in a storm at sea.
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  21. #20  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat
    I guess you could try it, but I haven't even heard of an electric ship, only small scale boats, like tenders or fishing boats with trolling motors. I wouldn't want to have to rely on such complex and novel technology when I'm out in a storm at sea.
    Hydrogen isn't electric it's a gas that is stored either in a liquid form or a gaseous form. It supplies the power to the engine wether it be electric or other.
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    Forum Freshman craterchains's Avatar
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    Hell I can't believe I missed this about hydrogen. I live on a boat, in water, which I
    hope to soon use as my fuel source. Many years ago when I lived in the islands, I
    met some friends that were retired scientists. There are allot of them up there. We
    hashed out a method of hydrogen extraction that hasn't been tried I don't think.

    Hope you have seen the movie Chain Reaction ? Close to the same idea we used.
    We know how to unlock many molecular structures today. I'm sure that soon we
    will unlock the H2O molecule and end up with an abundant fuel source.

    Hydrogen can be used to drive steam boilers, or piston engines, but my favorite is
    burning it and the oxygen in a turbine to drive generators for electricity. It's just
    water till you process it.

    Yet that is only the means to fuel transportation vehicles. Not transportation in it's
    self.
    It's not what you know or don't know, but what you know that isn't so that will hurt you. Will Rodgers 1938
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  23. #22  
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    I have a really stupid question, if you convert water in to Hydrogen and Oxygen and then burn it how much water will be produced? The theory here is if everyone started burring water so to speak what will replace the water?

    I can see it now, the ocean is at an all time record low. Then again perhaps that could be useful to keep the oceans from rising do to polar ice caps melting.
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  24. #23  
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    Not a dumb question at all. Yet this takes the topic off even farther from
    transportation.

    OK, IF I remember correctly, water used in this way becomes poly water, H2O2,
    which then looses the extra atom of O and reverts back to normal water. Because
    of not being "able" to do this on a large and economical scale yet, I don't think we
    can extrapolate your answer. But very good question.

    It is ironic that many say the ice caps are melting, yet the oceans seem to be lower.
    Some land areas are sinking here and there and are erroneously said the oceans
    are rising as the cause. Now look at the new phenomena of what appears to be far
    more rainbow effects in our atmosphere from far more water!?!?
    It's not what you know or don't know, but what you know that isn't so that will hurt you. Will Rodgers 1938
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  25. #24  
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    Personally I think it's just a matter of time before something gets off balance, either by natural causes or man made. Either way it's bound to happen.

    So the land masses are sinking pushing the water up and the ice caps are melting pushing the water up, yet they say we have less water? Could it be we are converting water in to some other chemical base through our modern manufacturing processes ?
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  26. #25  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (In)Sanity
    Personally I think it's just a matter of time before something gets off balance, either by natural causes or man made. Either way it's bound to happen.

    So the land masses are sinking pushing the water up and the ice caps are melting pushing the water up, yet they say we have less water? Could it be we are converting water in to some other chemical base through our modern manufacturing processes ?
    We have less UNPOLLUTED water today. The Sea level is rising actually and some land masses are sinking.
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  27. #26  
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    Hell I can't believe I missed this about hydrogen. I live on a boat, in water, which I
    hope to soon use as my fuel source. Many years ago when I lived in the islands, I
    met some friends that were retired scientists. There are allot of them up there. We
    hashed out a method of hydrogen extraction that hasn't been tried I don't think.

    Hope you have seen the movie Chain Reaction ? Close to the same idea we used.
    We know how to unlock many molecular structures today. I'm sure that soon we
    will unlock the H2O molecule and end up with an abundant fuel source.
    Unfortunately, hydrogen isn't a fuel source, but a carrier for energy produced in other ways. It takes energy to crack hydrogen from water, more than you get back from either burning hydrogen or using it in a fuel cell. Today the method is to cook hydrocarbons in very high temperature water, and this takes alot of energy, but the hydrogen is made into high value added products, not for the most part used as a primary energy source. Why not use wind power directly? For a boat that's a great sustainable source of energy. Solar power works well for electricity on a boat, but you need batteries to store it.
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  28. #27  
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    Hydrogen isn't electric it's a gas that is stored either in a liquid form or a gaseous form. It supplies the power to the engine wether it be electric or other.
    I was referring to fuel cells that produce electricity. I don't know of any hydrogen powered internal combustion engines capable of powering ships, and besides, they would still require oil for lubrication, and a vast storage system. It makes economic sense for the space program, that's about it.
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  29. #28  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spidergoat
    Hydrogen isn't electric it's a gas that is stored either in a liquid form or a gaseous form. It supplies the power to the engine wether it be electric or other.
    I was referring to fuel cells that produce electricity. I don't know of any hydrogen powered internal combustion engines capable of powering ships, and besides, they would still require oil for lubrication, and a vast storage system. It makes economic sense for the space program, that's about it.
    Desel engines could be converted to gas engines to use hydrogen and there are synthetic oils availabe today on the market, remember Mobil 1, the first synthetic for you car intriduced over 20 years ago?
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  30. #29  
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    I wonder why we need transportation.

    Why do we go places?

    Why don't we pick a good place and just stay there?
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  31. #30  
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    Did I get the last word on transportation?
    Or are you all on vacation?
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  32. #31  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    No matter what you want the worlds inhabitants want to move, fast. Humans are now in the mobile age whereby they can go anywhere at anytime. That's going to be hard to stop that with your way of thinking. Here's a little something that is interesting about hydrogen....




    Rather than heating hydrogen to extreme temperatures or using high voltage, Mills and Conrads have demonstrated the capability independently of using the release of energy from hydrogen by specific catalysts to cause a plasma in hydrogen which may be observed and recorded by its ultraviolet emissions. "Essentially, we have shown we can produce heat, and therefore electricity, in a hydrogen plasma without a power input. We have a chemical reaction that produces valuable products," said Mills. Conrads’ findings support and underscore the potential for revolutionary applications of the Mills Process in the fields of chemistry and energy.

    The world could have a new source of low-cost, renewable, pollution-free energy because these reactions can be harnessed to create electricity. When hydrogen transitions to these lower stable states, energy in the form of extreme ultraviolet light is released. Extraordinary compounds are formed as by-product. An early application of these products would be vastly improved high voltage batteries with at least 10,000 times the power of conventional batteries, charged and recharged with low-cost electricity. This could help usher in the age of the electric automobile.

    http://www.blacklightpower.com/Press_Release.html
    http://physicsweb.org/articles/news/9/8/4
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  33. #32  
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    A very good example to see the practical use of hydrogen with a large scale is Iceland !

    This country has fixed a plan to be 100% hydrogen in 10 years. And it seems the plan is in good condition ...

    To be continued
    Capnemo - a frenchie in new jersey
    http://www.nemoworld.info/
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  34. #33  
    Time Lord cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capnemo
    A very good example to see the practical use of hydrogen with a large scale is Iceland !

    This country has fixed a plan to be 100% hydrogen in 10 years. And it seems the plan is in good condition ...

    To be continued

    It would be prudent that everyone would convert over to a hydrogen society.
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  35. #34  
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    No matter what you want the worlds inhabitants want to move, fast. Humans are now in the mobile age whereby they can go anywhere at anytime. That's going to be hard to stop that with your way of thinking.
    Isn't it possible that such vehicles have created their own need? Like an addiction, the pusher creates both the need and the product to satisfy the need.
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  36. #35  
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    Yes you're right. How much people like to buy a car very powerfull and drive fast on highway ... (I mean faster than the official limit of course).

    For 3 years, I took a plane between paris and new york and it was because I had to go (to see my girlfriend in fact ).. so now I'm here and not moving I still want to to take a plane and fly ! But I dont need to.

    I presume it can be the same for a car ... even if you dont need to use your car
    I dunno, I'm not a sociologist !
    Capnemo - a frenchie in new jersey
    http://www.nemoworld.info/
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capnemo
    A very good example to see the practical use of hydrogen with a large scale is Iceland !

    This country has fixed a plan to be 100% hydrogen in 10 years. And it seems the plan is in good condition ...
    You do realize that hydrogen isn't a fuel.

    Hydrogren can't replace fossil fuels because of that fact. Even if every car in the world had hydrogen "fuel" cells, we would still need fossil fuels or some other form of generator in order to give those fuel cells their energy.
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  38. #37  
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    To All:

    I am for hydrogen and hydrogen economy.

    There are many hurdles and obstacles to make it work.

    At this point, we can only go forward ...

    Thanks,

    Gordan
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  39. #38  
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    This is kind of a zombie thread, but what the heck.

    The big thing that a lot of people don't seem to realize when they talk about a "hydrogen economy" is that hydrogen is not an energy source. It's just an energy storage medium. You still need some kind of power source (coal plant, nuclear plants, solar, wind farms, whatever) to provide the energy for making the hydrogen. If all of the hydrogen is produced from fossil fuels, you aren't really accomplishing anything.
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    Hydrogen is also very hard to store in a usable form. Compressed to 3000 psi the typical gas cylinder only stores about 4 percent of its weight in hydrogen. So, to store 4 kilograms of hydrogen, you need a tank that weighs 100 kilograms. In contrast, fuels that are liquid at room temperature, such as bioethanol, biodiesel, gasoline, can be stored in a featherweight plastic container. And reduction in vehicle weight is the most effective way to increase fuel economy. Cutting the weight of a vehicle in half will approximately double the miles per gallon of fuel. That's why small cars are the most economical solution to any future oil crisis. A good example is given here.
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    There are several 'alternative' energies discussed among people.

    Hydrogen
    Ethanol
    Natural Gas
    Propane
    ..


    However, have you wondered why they are all either fluids or gaseous ? The car industry has previously been working on electric vehicles, with better and better energy storage systems (batteries).
    Now producing the fuels mentioned above costs more electricity than their actual energy output. Why would someone want to spend 1kw to produce a fuel with 0.8 times that energy

    It is simple. While electric cars don't waste energy, the energy they consume can hardly be controlled by large oil companies. As long as a fuel is fluid, it can be sold at as stations. Electric vehicles can be plugged at home, and that's what the oil companies don't want.

    If you take all the money that is being spent on research for alternative energies, you could make batteries that are green, and which can store a lot of electricity
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  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by oracle
    However, have you wondered why they are all either fluids or gaseous ? The car industry has previously been working on electric vehicles, with better and better energy storage systems (batteries).
    We've already been over this. To sum up:

    1.The energy density of batteries is nowhere near as good as that of liquid fuels.

    2.Batteries are hideously expensive - so expensive that you are unlikely to ever recoup the extra cost in gasoline savings during the lifetime of your car.

    3.It takes much longer to charge a battery than to refill a fuel tank - people want to be able to take long car trips without having to stop for hours to recharge their car every time they drive a few hundred miles.

    4.The car companies only care about making money - they certainly aren't going to hold back profitable products simply because it would upset the oil industry. If a car company thought they could make money by offering consumers an electric car, they would do it.
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  43. #42  
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    electricity for me is still the best way forward for cars(obvious cost aside at moment), and cars like the tesla roadster are usable vehicles. 4second 0-60mph top speed of 130mph and 250miles on a charge(enough for petrol heads to get their fix and not in a car looking like an invalid carriage at the same time ). It uses new range of quick charging lithium-ion batteries.(well quick for batteries) But at $50,000 dollars but dear

    Then the only problems with being green moves to power stations, then its the descision of hydrogen, nuclear, or wind farms etc which is obviously still a nightmare


    The thing that gets me is the west is trying to "get green" in many areas but devoloping countries like india and china are churning huge amounts of pollution out with no concern for enviromental issues cause its not prophitable enough to do it clean(similar problem with convincing the west also) so if all the west was totally green, will it make much of an offset against the two largest populated countries still running massive amounts of heavy industry and two stroke vehicles?
    CAPTAINCAVEMAN


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  44. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    electricity for me is still the best way forward for cars(obvious cost aside at moment), and cars like the tesla roadster are usable vehicles. 4second 0-60mph top speed of 130mph and 250miles on a charge(enough for petrol heads to get their fix and not in a car looking like an invalid carriage at the same time ). It uses new range of quick charging lithium-ion batteries.(well quick for batteries) But at $50,000 dollars but dear
    I believe the Tesla is $100k, not $50k.
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  45. #44  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    Quote Originally Posted by captaincaveman
    electricity for me is still the best way forward for cars(obvious cost aside at moment), and cars like the tesla roadster are usable vehicles. 4second 0-60mph top speed of 130mph and 250miles on a charge(enough for petrol heads to get their fix and not in a car looking like an invalid carriage at the same time ). It uses new range of quick charging lithium-ion batteries.(well quick for batteries) But at $50,000 dollars but dear
    I believe the Tesla is $100k, not $50k.

    my mistake $90,000 or £50,000 they are bringing out a less expensive family car too
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scifor Refugee
    The big thing that a lot of people don't seem to realize when they talk about a "hydrogen economy" is that hydrogen is not an energy source. It's just an energy storage medium. You still need some kind of power source (coal plant, nuclear plants, solar, wind farms, whatever) to provide the energy for making the hydrogen.

    yes, thats the problem. and electricity isn't an energy source, too. but electricity is the best form or possibility to supply energy. It has a far reach and the infrastructure is already on. with electric energy, we can do almost everything. I mean everything we really need and to live well. because this deluxe life we have at the moment will be the past in nearly future. And it's a high price we pay for our mobility. Oil will be exhausted in a few years, whether it's 20 years whether it's 50 years it doesn't matter. and oil will become very expensive so other alternitvies will become economic interesting the higher the price is. that's the good thing on rising prices for gasoline. I think hydrogen is only good for applications which require high power.

    back to the main question, how to produce this energy. I think there have to be various sources. the biggest source with a big big potential is to save energy and not to waste it. with solar and wind energy in combination with geo thermic heating, I think you can provide the human basic needs. that have to be the aim. to start it and to smooth this way has to be done in this century and it would make myself proud when I could take part in doing this one day.
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    Hydrogen is the only future. Made from water and nuclear-based electricity. There is no other way.
    Pierre

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  48. #47  
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    Quote Originally Posted by The P-manator
    Hydrogen is the only future. Made from water and nuclear-based electricity. There is no other way.

    Could I suggest you make a slight change to that statement?

    ie "hydrogen extracted from water utilsing nuclear generated electrical power"
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  49. #48  
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    Héhé, that is very funny. So here goes:

    Hydrogen extracted from water using nuclear energy is our only sustainable energy future.

    Although I still stringly believe in the research on solar and wind technology.
    Pierre

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    Actually, thermal depolymerization is another excellent process for many reasons:

    1. It mimics the geologic process of turning carbon based compounds into oil which means that many types of waste products can be reconverted back to oil (with about 85% efficiency). This enables it to solve 2 environmental problems at once.

    2. It recycles the net amount of carbon in the ecosystem without adding more.

    3. It uses the current oil transportation infrastructure.

    4. It is scalable in size.

    5. There is already a plant operating and turning waste into oil in the town of Carthage Missouri.

    Please don't take my word for it. Just type "thermal depolymerization" in a search site and see for yourself.
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    our best and only future is to reduce energy consumption.

    and we have to start it today. it isn't possible to burn all ressources of coal and oil because of climate reasons. independently of that, there isn't much time to develop a new technology which provides energy and use it very effcient. according to a lecture, on the assumption, that energy demand will not increase, coal is available for more than 2500 years. but an increase of 4% a year is enough that coal is over in less than 120 years. it is not imaginably what will happen when we burn all coal ressources in less than 120 years!


    energy will become a first class article in future...
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