Thread: Next Generation Hybrids

Could it be that mainstream car manufacturers are finally taking hybrids and electric power seriously? Of course we've had some hybrids around for a while now with the Toyota Prius as perhaps the most well known out of them, but in general most manufacturers have seemed slow to respond to demand for such cars. Well that is until now, for it seems now BMW are about to enter the hybrid market in a big way with 2 new models set to rival anything already in the market place. The first of which is the I3 a more practical everyday car designed at a price point to make it affordable for mass market appeal, the second perhaps a more aspirational model for most is the I8, designed as a 2 door sports coupe. The I8 is set to offer both economy and performance in a beautifully designed package, bosting fuel ecomony of (113 mpg in the UK & 94 mpg in the US), whilst offering a top speed of 155 mph (artificially limited) and a 0 to 62mph time of under 4.4 seconds. Also offering what could be a very welcome option for many buyers of a wall box to allow fully charging in under 2 hours.

Whilst a purchase price of £30,680.00 has been put on the new I3 BMW have yet to release a price for the I8 (Don't expect much change from a £100,000 though).

BMW I3:



BMW I8:

I have read that the whole hybrid electric plan was a big big big big big BIGGGG BBIG FAIL....

Originally Posted by blackscorp

I have read that the whole hybrid electric plan was a big big big big big BIGGGG BBIG FAIL....

You better let BMW know quick then, for it seems they've made a massive error!

I'll stick with my 14 thousand dollar Toyota Corolla....as will most of the world.These hybrids baffle me. Then again, I don't really care if there are suckers flushing their money down the toilet.

Originally Posted by Fossilborealis

I'll stick with my 14 thousand dollar Toyota Corolla....as will most of the world.These hybrids baffle me. Then again, I don't really care if there are suckers flushing their money down the toilet.

Well they're basically a compromise for those who can't bring themselves to put up with all the drawbacks of going fully electric but still wan't some of the advantages and are maybe enviromentally conscious. But if you've got a car you're happy with already well hey, stick with it, it means one less newer car needing to be built which is good for the enviroment.

If these new hybrids do though now represent an attitude change by manufacturers and indeed a conscious effort to make electric power more practical and cars in general more efficient then in the long run we will all benefit, especially with continued rising petrol prices.

Petrol prices? The logic eludes me. If one is concerned about economy, then they will purchase a Toyota, Honda, etc for a fraction if the price of a BMW.My Toyota costs just about zip in maintenance except for oil changes and other minimal maintenance. 3rd one I've had over 36 years. Just the difference on insurance between a 100 thousand dollar BMW and a Corolla, is thousands over the course of a car's span. A 10 year old Corolla, Civic, Camry, Accord will have lots of life left. A hybrid after 10 years....obsolete.

You can buy alllot of gas with the difference of price between those electric hybrids and a Honda Civic or other smaller gas powered car today. The insurance is also much lower than the hybrid as well. I too will just keep my Honda Accord and get good gas milage rather than spend all that extra money on elefctric. I do hope the future will be better and far cheaper for those hybrids or else they will never sell well.

Originally Posted by Fossilborealis

I'll stick with my 14 thousand dollar Toyota Corolla....as will most of the world.These hybrids baffle me. Then again, I don't really care if there are suckers flushing their money down the toilet.

You could have bought a Nissan Versa for $12,000. Or you could just be another sucker flushing your money down the toilet with the Corolla.

Originally Posted by billvon

Originally Posted by Fossilborealis

I'll stick with my 14 thousand dollar Toyota Corolla....as will most of the world.These hybrids baffle me. Then again, I don't really care if there are suckers flushing their money down the toilet.

You could have bought a Nissan Versa for $12,000. Or you could just be another sucker flushing your money down the toilet with the Corolla.

Exactly how. Hondas, Toyotas are best car on the road and best value for the dollar. I've had 3 corollas for 36 years. The first 2 lasted 34 years...my newer one will take me to 2030 or so. We need a dependable car in our environment and that's Japanese. Anytime someone buys a gimmicky vehicle, lucky to get 10 years out of it.

Originally Posted by Fossilborealis

Exactly how. Hondas, Toyotas are best car on the road and best value for the dollar.

Hey, flush your extra $2000 down the toilet if you want to, it's a free country.

A confirmed Toyota girl here after driving Chevs and Ford for the first part of my life. We had four Toyotas in the yard but I just sold a 1993 T-100 for $3,500.00. Not bad for a vehicle that I had 18 years service out of having bought it used in 1995.

I have been watching the hybrids with interest but the cold winters and distances here could be a concern as well as a heated garage, which I lack. A covered car tent is the best I can manage for my Yaris. At least it saves sweeping snow and scraping ice off the car for those midnight starts. Brrrrr....

Are they really environmentally friendly? While they obviously save some fuel, how does that compare with the huge rare heavy metal component batteries that have to be made and in five or so years be disposed of somehow?

Originally Posted by scheherazade

I have been watching the hybrids with interest but the cold winters and distances here could be a concern as well as a heated garage, which I lack.

In some ways they make your life easier in the cold. Since the 'starter' battery just has to close some relays rather than crank the engine, it can get a lot colder before the battery 'gives up.' Also, most hybrids are smart enough to run the gas engine however much they have to to provide heat for the heater/defroster.

Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox

Are they really environmentally friendly? While they obviously save some fuel, how does that compare with the huge rare heavy metal component batteries that have to be made and in five or so years be disposed of somehow?

Most hybrids use nickel metal hydride batteries, and nickel is far less toxic than lead, which is what normal cars use. (And the lead acid battery in a standard car is two to five times larger than the lead acid battery in a hybrid, since in a hybrid it doesn't have to do as much.) They last a lot longer than five years; we've had our Prius for almost ten years now and the battery is going strong.

Once the battery does die Toyota provides a shipping container for either you or the service center to ship it to the recycling center. The nickel is used to make steel and the plastic in the battery is recycled into new plastic.

Originally Posted by billvon

Originally Posted by scheherazade

I have been watching the hybrids with interest but the cold winters and distances here could be a concern as well as a heated garage, which I lack.

In some ways they make your life easier in the cold. Since the 'starter' battery just has to close some relays rather than crank the engine, it can get a lot colder before the battery 'gives up.' Also, most hybrids are smart enough to run the gas engine however much they have to to provide heat for the heater/defroster.

Are you familiar with the Yukon winter climate or the distances between communities here?

Reading things such as the following makes me think that the time is not yet for me to own a hybrid. Let those with deep pockets continue to do more research and resolve the issues.

Disadvantages of Hybrid Cars - 04 - Hybrid Cars Aren't Winter-Ready
Cold weather is the ultimate enemy of current hybrid vehicle designs, for several reasons. First and foremost, batteries discharge more quickly in cold weather, which means that extended-range hybrids such as the Chevrolet Volt see their electric-only range drop precipitously along with the mercury in the thermometer. Second, in the winter time drivers demand more from their automobile's electric system, especially when it comes to heating, and this further taxes fuel mileage and overall efficiency. Anyone who has ever ridden in a hybrid car during the depths of a blizzard will be all too familiar with the difficult of the vehicle's climate control system to keep up with the comfort needs of passengers without significantly impacting range.
Finally, winter weather exacts a toll on all automobiles that make use of an internal combustion engine. Not only does it take longer for cars to heat up to optimal - and most efficient - operating temperatures when it is cold outside, but the slipping and sliding that occurs when wheels struggle to find traction sucks down fuel and battery power at an accelerated rate.

Disadvantages of Hybrid Cars - 05 - Plug-In Hybrid Car Infrastructure Still Isn't There
Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) offer the best of both worlds: a hybrid battery system that can be recharged either by braking or the vehicle's engine, as well as the option of plugging into a wall charger and sucking juice straight from the grid. PHEV models are starting to appear in Chevrolet, Ford, and Toyota's lineups, and their dual-charging philosophy represents a clear upgrade for efficiency-conscious drivers.
The primary issue with PHEV models, however, is that it can be quite difficult to charge up with a plug when driving outside of a major urban area. While 110-volt connections can trickle electricity into the battery at a reduced rate, a 220-volt-or-better charging post is needed to make PHEV use truly practical on a regular basis. Unfortunately, most parts of the country are still waiting for the infrastructure necessary to accommodate the charging needs of plug-in buyers, which means that if you live outside of a big city you might want to wait for reality to catch up with PHEV technology before plunking down your hard-earned cash on one of these models.

5 Disadvantages Of Hybrid Cars | Autobytel.com

Originally Posted by Ascended

Originally Posted by Fossilborealis

I'll stick with my 14 thousand dollar Toyota Corolla....as will most of the world.These hybrids baffle me. Then again, I don't really care if there are suckers flushing their money down the toilet.

Well they're basically a compromise for those who can't bring themselves to put up with all the drawbacks of going fully electric but still wan't some of the advantages and are maybe enviromentally conscious. But if you've got a car you're happy with already well hey, stick with it, it means one less newer car needing to be built which is good for the enviroment.

If these new hybrids do though now represent an attitude change by manufacturers and indeed a conscious effort to make electric power more practical and cars in general more efficient then in the long run we will all benefit, especially with continued rising petrol prices.

they tried it and put money on such projects... but where never saled

Originally Posted by scheherazade

Are you familiar with the Yukon winter climate or the distances between communities here?

Wouldn't better gas mileage be an advantage over long distances?

Disadvantages of Hybrid Cars - 04 - Hybrid Cars Aren't Winter-Ready . . . . First and foremost, batteries discharge more quickly in cold weather, which means that extended-range hybrids such as the Chevrolet Volt see their electric-only range drop precipitously along with the mercury in the thermometer.

This is definitely true. But most hybrids are not PHEV's like the Volt. They do not rely on their battery's capacity to travel long distances; the battery provides only assistance during acceleration, a power sink during braking and storage so the engine can shut down when stopped. A Prius, for example, can lose 75% of its battery capacity to cold weather without affecting its range or fuel economy.

Second, in the winter time drivers demand more from their automobile's electric system, especially when it comes to heating

True!

and this further taxes fuel mileage and overall efficiency.

This is true, and is one reason hybrids are significantly better in cold weather than conventional cars. Their electrical system is truly massive; a Prius can generate around 15 kilowatts of electrical power while a standard car struggles to generate one kilowatt. (This is because it uses some of that power to accelerate.) In addition, since that's available all the time, they are good emergency generators; a Prius will give you kilowatts of power for days on a tank of gas.

Anyone who has ever ridden in a hybrid car during the depths of a blizzard will be all too familiar with the difficult of the vehicle's climate control system to keep up with the comfort needs of passengers without significantly impacting range.

Hmm, I have ridden in a hybrid in a blizzard and it didn't seem to affect range. Again I think he's confusing PHEV's (pluggable hybrids) with standard hybrids.

Finally, winter weather exacts a toll on all automobiles that make use of an internal combustion engine. Not only does it take longer for cars to heat up to optimal - and most efficient - operating temperatures when it is cold outside, but the slipping and sliding that occurs when wheels struggle to find traction sucks down fuel and battery power at an accelerated rate.

This would seem to argue for hybrids, which overall are more efficient compared to standard vehicles.

Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox

Are they really environmentally friendly? While they obviously save some fuel, how does that compare with the huge rare heavy metal component batteries that have to be made and in five or so years be disposed of somehow?

That is a very good question, certainly if you watch Top Gear and believe Jeremy Clarkson then you might probably think not, at least that was a couple of years ago with the Toyota Prius and the like. Today? Well again it might still actually be that some still arn't going to offer any real enviromental advantage over a conventional automobile in the long run, even in spite of the fuel savings.

But there is perhaps however a more important reason for buying such cars, that is of increasing demand for them. Like with all things greater demand creates more advanced and efficient products. If manufacturers can start to sell enough of these new hybrids then there investment will be successful and we will hopefully continue to see better and better models, to the point at which when we really start to take seriously the effects of fossil fuel overusage we might actually have some suitable technology as a viable alternative to the standard internal combustion engine.

when they get as good and as cheap as the rest... choice is made easly