Notices
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Wind Turbines

  1. #1 Wind Turbines 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    15
    I was just considering new ideas, and was wondering, what are problems with HAWTs (Horizontal Axis Wind Turbines) that we have and ways they could be improved both observed and structurally?


    ~If you don't know, then you better ask somebody~
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Well, the bearings are expensive and subject to wear because of how the shaft is loaded at one end. This just made me wonder if vanes at either end of a shaft might be better. I mean with the shaft running through the turbine to a second set of vanes.


    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    128
    wind is too depend on local and global climate, so it is not stable. because its power rating is changing from time to time, it's difficult to connect wind energy to main power grid without any safety consideration.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    Correct. In most places it's a toy.

    I'm looking out my window at Vancouver's proud mountaintop installation. It's like a billboard declaring our blind allegiance to Green-mindedness. Of course it rarely turns and isn't now. The embodied cost of all that machined steel and transmission line will never be repaid by what it generates.

    I think someone should secretly power it to make it spin. Since the point is self-congratulation for the city, not serious generation.

    Fun to tinker with design though.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Isotope Bunbury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,590
    There are not enough trained technicians to cope with the demand for gearbox and bearing maintenance. The potential for wind energy in the USA is huge and new manufacturing operations have recently opened, but the industry could become constrained in its growth if the maintenance aspect doesn't get more attention.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    15
    So basically, were putting way more effort into having wind turbines than they are giving clean energy for?
    ~If you don't know, then you better ask somebody~
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Isotope Bunbury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,590
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid-Delta
    So basically, were putting way more effort into having wind turbines than they are giving clean energy for?
    That doesn't follow. You asked about problems and got appropriate responses. None of these problems is insurmountable.

    Try asking "what are the problems with coal?" You might end up deciding that coal is an impossible choice for energy production.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    It's like a billboard declaring our blind allegiance to Green-mindedness.
    Windmills are also like billboards in the sense of cluttering up the scenery. And of course, there will be massive infrastructure in the form of transmission lines needed to move the power from where the wind is blowing to where it is not. We all know how readily people accept new transmission lines being built in their communities.

    None other than Harry Reid, the king of NIMBY, wants the US federal government to have more powers to force transmission line construction over the objections of state and local governments.
    Reid: Feds will force-march transmission lines
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Isotope Bunbury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,590
    The billboards in Colorado provide 6% of our electricity.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,328
    And more in future. Wind power is appropriate in that area.
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Isotope Bunbury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,590
    I think the medium term goal is 10%. Above that level integration with the system becomes difficult, but hydrogen and battery storage developments are in the works. As for cluttering up the scenery, these are in eastern Colorado which is flat and the farmers who lease their fields love them.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    15
    Okay, just something i was wondering, what kind of storage batteries are used to store the electricity from the turbines? Like, what elements in the batteries? I'm pretty sure Lithium will be a part of it...
    ~If you don't know, then you better ask somebody~
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Isotope Bunbury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,590
    No, they are working on NaS - sodium-sulfur batteries. Our utility, Excel Energy is running trials to determine the optimum design, using some Japanese (I think)batteries.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    Quote Originally Posted by Bunbury
    hydrogen and battery storage developments are in the works.
    I would say they are in the works in the same sense that nuclear fusion is in the works.

    The largest battery storage system in the world has a capacity of 27 megawatts for 15 minutes.
    http://www.batterypoweronline.com/images/AppProBESS.pdf
    That would be about 30 seconds worth of power from a typical coal or nuclear plant.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Isotope Bunbury's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    2,590
    I suppose it depends on the criteria the user sets for performance. Excel energy has decided to use their batteries to smooth the supply during periods of low wind speed. Nuclear fusion may be 20 years or more away. We will know whether this battery project is viable much sooner than that, and I'd say the chances are pretty good.

    The battery is made up of twenty 50-kilowatt modules. It is roughly the size of two semi trailers and weighs approximately 80 tons. The battery is able to store about 7.2 megawatt-hours of electricity, with a charge/discharge capacity of one megawatt. When the wind blows, the batteries are charged. When the wind calms down, the batteries supplement the power flow. Fully charged, the battery could power 500 homes for over 7 hours.
    http://www.xcelenergy.com/SiteCollec...to-battery.pdf
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16 windmills 
    New Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    4
    Windmills are not "green" at all.

    1) they are powered with taxpayer money and not wind
    2)There are peeks and lows in the production, so conventional power plants are on standby. An engineer at a powerplant told me that the amount of fuel, that is burned (and producing nothing) is awsome.
    3) to remedy this the Dutch powerplants have develloped auxiliary powerplants that can be fired up instantly, the only problem with those is that they consuming alot more fuel than conventional powerplants.

    In my humble opnion the only remedy would be to store that energy, for instance the windmills should power pumps that transport water in a great basin, with the top level some 200 feet over sea level. Sure there will be considerable losses of energy in that proces, but at least the energy would be used only when nessecary.
    For instance during peak hours, or in case of a brake down in an other powerplant.

    That my 2 cents :wink:
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Veracity Vigilante inow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    3,499
    As we recently discussed in another thread, the issue does not lie with the wind power, but with the way we currently supplement it. This can be mitigated by better storage options. The problem you describe continues to reside with coal powered plants, not wind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •