Notices
Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: is there any negative or positive zero?

  1. #1 is there any negative or positive zero? 
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    every number has sign associated with it. what about zero?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    New York State
    Posts
    1,183
    +0 = -0, so the sign doesn't matter.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    +0 = -0, so the sign doesn't matter.
    sign does not matter!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Not in mathematics. Zero is just zero.

    However, it may be worth noting that in the standard representation of floating point numbers in computers (IEEE 754) it is possible to have both +0.0 and -0.0. I think this is just a side effect of the way sign bits are encoded, it doesn't mean anything.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    1,620
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    +0 = -0,
    And your proof?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    +0 = -0,
    And your proof?
    as we know 1+(+0)=1 and 1+(-0)=1, so 1+(+0)=1+(-0) => (+0)=(-0)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    why dont we use x (cross) in place of 0(zero)? as zero is absence of any number. cross represents it better. 0 (zero) sign shows that there is something circle and may be there is something inside it. zero shows possibility of something (i cant sy what that thing is!!!) cross has no such thing associated, as it clearly denies that there is nothing here.

    (this is my new hypothesis)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Because we use x for multiplication. Changing the symbols we use doesn't change the meaning. I think the Indian mathematicians used a dot and the Sumerians used quite a complex cuneiform character.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Ots
    Ots is offline
    Forum Sophomore
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    103
    precious isn't looking for serious answers.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by Ots View Post
    precious isn't looking for serious answers.
    i know. zero is really infinite concept. i want to explore it. if you think i deviated from my initial topic (ie sign for zero) then you are right .

    but what ever i think i post. and i am not a mathematician to be thoroughly interested in math. more you go deep more you will be confused. this rule applies for me. as i am an average person in math.

    whatever i ask here is only my curiosity in nature not interest in any subject (including math)

    thanx
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    zero is really infinite concept.
    Quite the reverse.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    @ otis

    if we minus zero (zero #1) from zero (zero #2) we get another zero (zero #3)!

    why? zero 3 should be less than either zero1 or zero2

    (this proves that zero represents something, while x (cross) denies everything)

    i know Strange is right, but change of sign is not a matter for me (from 0 to x)
    strange is not denying the concept, only saying sign cant be changed.

    otis this is new concept, i dont reamain attached to anything. sorry
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    17,036
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    this proves that zero represents something
    Quite the reverse, it proves that zero represents nothing. If it represented something then the result would not be zero. Zero is defined as the value that when added to (or subtracted from) another value leaves the other value unchanged. Call it x if you want, it won't make any difference and will only confuse people.

    If you write 204 as 2x4 people will assume you mean 8.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Forum Senior precious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    this proves that zero represents something
    Quite the reverse, it proves that zero represents nothing. If it represented something then the result would not be zero. Zero is defined as the value that when added to (or subtracted from) another value leaves the other value unchanged. Call it x if you want, it won't make any difference and will only confuse people.

    If you write 204 as 2x4 people will assume you mean 8.
    good answer
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    4
    Zero is zero , if u said that u have borrowed zero rupees its means u borrowed nothing. There is no distiction whether it is positive or negative.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    661
    Quote Originally Posted by Guitarist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    +0 = -0,
    And your proof?
    +0 really means 0+0.

    -0 really means 0-0

    details left to the reader.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    42
    Zero is a number and X is a sign of multiplication .So these two things are different .How you can compare these two ? and 0 is a neutral no. neither Positive nor negative.So if you will check it you will know that it doesn't matters.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: March 27th, 2011, 01:48 PM
  2. A quark is complete positive- negative. Spin makes 2 quarks?
    By jsaldea12 in forum Personal Theories & Alternative Ideas
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: February 1st, 2011, 09:46 PM
  3. focal point, negative or positive?
    By icu in forum Physics
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: May 11th, 2009, 03:19 PM
  4. Galileo's trial-positive or negative impact?
    By kingwinner in forum Physics
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: June 11th, 2007, 08:43 PM
  5. Negative and Positive thoughts
    By deep'n'dark in forum Behavior and Psychology
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: January 10th, 2007, 04:16 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •