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Thread: Fight Anti-Reptile Legislation HERE!

  1. #1 Fight Anti-Reptile Legislation HERE! 
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    [url]http://usark.org/campaign/connecticut-action-alert-house-bill-5832/

    http://usark.org/campaign/west-virginia-house-bill-2209/

    http://usark.org/campaign/montana-city-ordinance-to-ban-all-constrictor-snakes/

    Fight the legislation! While I do know this is not scientific,I feel that I need to share this. These bills can cause damage to the reptile hobby. For those who want reasons to defend this hobby,let me explain.
    1. Reptiles do not pose a major threat. More people are killed by toasters every year than they are by captive reptiles over many years.
    2. The reptile hobby can prove to be valuable in conservation efforts. The hobby can prove to be a resource for viable individuals of a species in danger of extinction.
    3. The reptile hobby brings the economy $1.5 billion dollars,and that does not even apply to the sale of reptile care supplies.
    4. Reptiles are progressively becoming more mainstream. They can be great pets for people who prefer animals with lower space or lower care requirements than cats and dogs.So let it be known.


    Last edited by Paleomind; March 3rd, 2013 at 07:45 AM.
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    Having owned a pair of Iguanas, they were very high maintenance (one was female that would hold her eggs), took up a lot of space, had the personality of two mobile green rocks and were picky eaters.

    I loved 'em.


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  4. #3  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    These bills can cause damage to the reptile hobby
    And how many reptiles die without being sold or when sold are not kept in proper conditions that they need in order to survive? So many times people buy reptiles then find they do not want them for one reason or another and set them free outdoors where they can't survive many times or survive to well and take over an area by killing anything that they can in order to surrvive. A case in point is the Anaconda in the Florida Everglades where they now are in the tens of thousands and killing anything that they can find endangering the natural ecological balance of all living things there.

    While the business of selling reptiles makes money the reptiles themselves do nor deserve to be sold by anyone and should remain in the own natural habitates until they die of natural problems not because someone doesn't feed them correctly of take care of them in the right manner. Leave the reptiles alone I'd say and stop using them to earn income, go out and find other hobbies that can't kill, destroy or injure creatures that are not human companions but are there for their own purposes to survive.
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    This is why people should promote the research of proper care. At every reptile expo I've seen,there are many responsible breeders with healthy animals. You are disregarding the responsible reptile keepers that DO exist. The breeder that sold me my snakes was very proffesional It's like if you punished every goldfish keeper because some neglect their fish. Also,Burmese pythons are not very popular anymore. They have since been replaced by smaller snakes,such as corn snakes and ball pythons. The death of reptiles by superstitious people,habitat loss,and other causes is far greater than the death toll of the hobby. Reptile keepers also supply zoos with some reptiles (it's more efficient than importing them all). As said previously,they're good pets for those who have too little space for a cat or dog and want something with lower maintenance than a fish. Reptile keepers also provide conservation services. The Axolotl is a critically endangered species,and only has one natural home left. In the reptile hobby,Axolotls are the most popular caudate in the hobby and is widely bred. In this way,the hobby is actually SAVING an endangered species. The solution is research.
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    I think cosmic and paleo both make very good points. There certainly are poor excuses for pet owners and there are those who treat animals better than humans. But unless I grossly misunderstood the bills, it seems only certain types of reptiles are being restricted. I imagine the motivation for these bills is because of what happens to an ecosystem when a foreign species is introduced. There are many pet owners who lose their pets. And snakes are slippery little things. I don't know how many of my friends lost their pet snakes when I was a kid. Luckily they were all poor kids like me and so their pets were snakes they had caught in the wild and made into pets. So their escape was no big deal. But I also had a friend who lost a boa constrictor once and he lived in a crowded apartment complex. Worse he lived downstairs from me and my 2 month old son. Luckily he was found a week later but had it been much longer he would have been seeking food and my son would have been at risk.

    I do think, however that a ban is a bit dramatic. Perhaps they should put more restrictions on keeping exotic pets, especially those that could pose a risk to small children or the ecosystem in general. Require pet owners to acquire a license and attend a training course in how to properly care for the animal. Force the to maintain some sort of insurance so that if the animal escapes into the wild, the insurance can cover the expenses the local agencies accumulate trying to locate the animal. Or require that the animal be tagged with a tracking device so that it can be recovered quickly. Some cities already have ordinances like this in place regarding breeds of dogs that have a tendency of being aggressive.




    Personally, I love reptilian friends and would love to have a pet snake, but I have a horrible time with the concept of keeping an animal caged. I want them to be free to come and go so that if they hang out with me, I know it is because they choose to for whatever reason. But I also know that sometimes the cage is for their protection from the unnatural environment we keep the in. I'm torn on it.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Would anyone enjoy being caged up their entire lives? Imagine being put into a small cage and fed whatever people thought you should have or that they can afford. I just do not understand why keeping reptiles for "pets" is something a society should be having seeing as that many times those animals are not properly handled, properly caged or properly fed. Many times those with reptiles take vacations and leave their "pets" alone to be taken care of by friends who sometimes do not treat them as their owners do and are mishandled and let lose into the environment. There's no way reptiles should be had as pets unless you catch one yourself and keep it under watch until you release it back into its own environment from which it was found.

    Bringing in reptiles from far away only leads to many problems when they are released or get away from their owners, which happens quite allot. Once a cute 1 foot Boa starts to grow and reaches 10 feet then is when people want to release them back into the wild and that's where the problems start for everyone. Even a Iguana that is cute at 1 foot grows to over 5 feet within a few years and is at times hard to control which again leads to releasing them which is what happens many times.
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    The cage debate is why I would promote getting as large of an enclosure as possible. If someone wants a reptile without feeling torn about a cage,I would promote a small species (I.e. an anole or dart frog) and tell them to get as large a cage as possible. As for the ecosystem,research is once again necessary. Also,many reptiles can't invade most U.S. ecosystems,and those that can invade most ecosystems are small animals. Reptile keeping is not the only reason reptiles can invade an ecosystem. Natural disasters like hurricanes can cause captive animals to break loose,like what happened with lionfish. Animals can also hitch a ride on imported materials,which is how fire ants invaded Florida. Research has also shown that feral pigs pose a greater threat to the Everglades than Burmese pythons. Most importantly,bans are not effective and might be counterproductive. Let's say that Burmese pythons are suddenly banned. Many would have to get their animals euthanized. Some may not want their python to die or the nearest vet who takes in reptiles is far away. Those people have a chance of releasing their pythons,thus making the ban fail in it's purpose. Finally,not to seem childish,would you prefer a life where food and water are always available,or would you prefer almost certain death?
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Would anyone enjoy being caged up their entire lives? Imagine being put into a small cage and fed whatever people thought you should have or that they can afford. I just do not understand why keeping reptiles for "pets" is something a society should be having seeing as that many times those animals are not properly handled, properly caged or properly fed. Many times those with reptiles take vacations and leave their "pets" alone to be taken care of by friends who sometimes do not treat them as their owners do and are mishandled and let lose into the environment. There's no way reptiles should be had as pets unless you catch one yourself and keep it under watch until you release it back into its own environment from which it was found.

    Bringing in reptiles from far away only leads to many problems when they are released or get away from their owners, which happens quite allot. Once a cute 1 foot Boa starts to grow and reaches 10 feet then is when people want to release them back into the wild and that's where the problems start for everyone. Even a Iguana that is cute at 1 foot grows to over 5 feet within a few years and is at times hard to control which again leads to releasing them which is what happens many times.
    While I completely empathize with you, mainly because I like animals more than I do people and tend to anthropomorphize them too much, in reality, reptiles don't probably care much if they are caged unless the cage is so small they can't stretch out and they are physically uncomfortable. Their brains are pretty small and they don't have the complex emotion centers in their brains that animals with more complex brains have. We currently have a "pet" lizard. He is just a wild lizard that we have put out several times but he keeps reappearing in our bedroom. He has become docile around us now and doesn't run when we approach him. Sometimes he even runs up Neverfly's arm. Will we ever cage him? No but that is because he is in our home by his own will and he is an animal native to our region. We choose to just coexist with him and avoid stepping on him or harming him. But we act the same way towards spiders that take up residence in our bedroom. We like anything that eats insects that may bite us lol.

    But if it is a non native species, caging is probably keeping the animal safer than it would be outside a cage.

    Deciding what animals humans "should" keep as pets is a matter of subjective opinion. Assuming all animals hate the cage is not always correct. The rabbit we care for doesn't mind his cage and we let him out often, but he always willfully re-enters his cage because he has made a nest there and he knows it is HIS area. He seems to go there when frightened as well. So maybe he recognizes the cage as a safe place when strangers are about.

    I prefer to avoid assuming it is always the human keeping an animal as a pet. I do think that some animals make pets of us for the same reasons that we make pets of them. In some cases companionship, in others for safety purposes.
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleomind View Post
    If someone wants a reptile without feeling torn about a cage,I would promote a small species (I.e. an anole or dart frog)...
    Frogs are not reptiles.

    Sorry, I'm being picky. Just sticking up for the little guy in my avatar.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Reptiles become very aggressive at times, depending upon the variety, and can cause undue harm to humans through biting or whipping their tails like Iguanas do at times when angered. So one never knows the disposition of their reptile especially around others who sometimes visit. While you might consider your Iguana to be docile someone else could upset the critter and it could take a chomp out of them very easily. This is true with younger people as well so they are really to be watched around reptiles that could become angered easily. Reptiles should be left where they are not sold to people for a few years then when they are to big and need to eat a goat in order to survive people get rid of them. Just do yourself a big favor and leave the reptiles alone, outside where they are found.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwirko View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleomind View Post
    If someone wants a reptile without feeling torn about a cage,I would promote a small species (I.e. an anole or dart frog)...
    Frogs are not reptiles.Sorry, I'm being picky. Just sticking up for the little guy in my avatar.
    The hobby is called the herp hobby,but I didn't want to confuse people.
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  13. #12  
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    All animals (and even humans) can be unpredictable. Any animal is predictable 99% of the time. Even then,most reptiles are harmless. Even venomous reptiles can be made safe by getting them surgery to remove the venom gland,similar to what people do with pet skunks. Most reptile attacks can be attributed to defense instincts. They interpret feelings of uncertainty as an opportunity to escape a potential predator. My California kingsnake has only bit me once. Biting is bound to happen to snake keepers,but it's not a sign of not being tame. It's just an inevitability caused by prey instincts. While it is a good idea to supervise children handling reptiles,isn't that true for all animals?
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    See, I just growl and bite back. Asserting dominance works wonders.

    But kissing rattlesnakes is always a bad idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Reptiles become very aggressive at times, depending upon the variety, and can cause undue harm to humans through biting or whipping their tails like Iguanas do at times when angered.
    So can cats, dogs, birds, and girlfriends.


    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    So one never knows the disposition of their reptile especially around others who sometimes visit. While you might consider your Iguana to be docile someone else could upset the critter and it could take a chomp out of them very easily.
    Again this can be said about one's own children or a bf/gf. I remember the first time NF witnessed how aggressive I can become for the first time. lol that was funny I still look back on it with pride.


    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    This is true with younger people as well so they are really to be watched around reptiles that could become angered easily. Reptiles should be left where they are not sold to people for a few years then when they are to big and need to eat a goat in order to survive people get rid of them. Just do yourself a big favor and leave the reptiles alone, outside where they are found.
    The one we have was found in our home... and we have done as you suggested, he is still in our home. roaming freely to do whatever he likes.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    No, we got adopted by a green anole that may have been living unseen here for quite a while. I carried him outside. He came right back in the next day.
    We just watch our step and make sure to keep counters clean and take care around lamps, since he likes to lay out on the edge of lampshades.

    He's also made a bed out of a wooden picture frame with my sons picture in it, sleeping on top of it like Snoopy on his doghouse for average 8 hours a go.
    He's relaxed around us to where he doesn't run instantly if we get close. I can usually prod him onto a finger where he'll nap on my arm where it's warm. Every now and then, he'll make a fantastic leap.
    You can see him when you walk in a room sometimes hanging from a curtain. Or on the side of the bookshelf hanging like a fly on the wall near the lamp.

    The thought occurred to me, where does he poop?
    I've never seen any... Seriously. You gotta figure he's gotta go like everyone else. So where does what he goes go to?
    Does he go outside for that?

    Should I take a matchbox and put kitty litter in it?
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  17. #16  
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    Captive bred is always better than wild caught.
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    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleomind View Post
    Captive bred is always better than wild caught.
    I can't make a judgement there, but in this case, our little lizard isn't "caught". He just doesn't leave.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverfly View Post
    No, we got adopted by a green anole that may have been living unseen here for quite a while. I carried him outside. He came right back in the next day.We just watch our step and make sure to keep counters clean and take care around lamps, since he likes to lay out on the edge of lampshades.He's also made a bed out of a wooden picture frame with my sons picture in it, sleeping on top of it like Snoopy on his doghouse for average 8 hours a go.He's relaxed around us to where he doesn't run instantly if we get close. I can usually prod him onto a finger where he'll nap on my arm where it's warm. Every now and then, he'll make a fantastic leap.You can see him when you walk in a room sometimes hanging from a curtain. Or on the side of the bookshelf hanging like a fly on the wall near the lamp. The thought occurred to me, where does he poop?I've never seen any... Seriously. You gotta figure he's gotta go like everyone else. So where does what he goes go to?Does he go outside for that?Should I take a matchbox and put kitty litter in it?
    I don't really think reptiles defecate in a single place (it would be impractical), but my reptiles seem to poop in terrarium corners,so I would suggest checking in the small,cramped parts of the house.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleomind View Post
    I don't really think reptiles defecate in a single place (it would be impractical), but my reptiles seem to poop in terrarium corners,so I would suggest checking in the small,cramped parts of the house.
    I'm thinking under baseboards or something. I figure regular vacuuming should make it a non-issue...
    Gotta figure there's a lot of things doing that around a house most people don't see. Like flies blowing all over someones kitchen before the swatter demonstrates effectiveness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Reptiles become very aggressive at times, depending upon the variety, and can cause undue harm to humans through biting or whipping their tails like Iguanas do at times when angered. So one never knows the disposition of their reptile especially around others who sometimes visit. While you might consider your Iguana to be docile someone else could upset the critter and it could take a chomp out of them very easily. This is true with younger people as well so they are really to be watched around reptiles that could become angered easily. Reptiles should be left where they are not sold to people for a few years then when they are to big and need to eat a goat in order to survive people get rid of them. Just do yourself a big favor and leave the reptiles alone, outside where they are found.
    Meh, there are a lot of ways to manage aggression in reptiles...

    1) Keep them well-fed.
    2) Use Dead-Feed.
    3) Handle them regularly, and from a young age - when its older, if an aggressive species, you only handle it when it's willing.
    4) Create a space that is exclusively for feeding, and separate from their living space (that way they don't associate food with things in their territory).

    Reptiles lashout when they're hungry, threatened, or being disrespected. That latter being the biggest problem. It's all about respect. Certain reptiles, they're going to try and bite you once or twice... That's just how it is, and the responsible owners accept this as something that comes with the territory.

    What I would like to see is legislation protecting reptiles from crappy owners. Especially when it comes to the ones that actually pose a threat to people. Things like the larger Monitors ought to be sold with discretion - I'd like to see licencing required for certain species. You shouldn't be allowed to own a crocodile Monitor unless you know what you are doing/getting yourself into.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    What I would like to see is legislation protecting reptiles from crappy owners
    That's the rub. You can't legislate ways to tell who's going to treat reptiles correctly or not. Even when some people mean well things happen in their lives which forces them to make changes that they didn't realize at the time they bought their reptile they would ever have to do. No tests can be made to show how people will take care of any "pet" so we have millions of "pets" now running free or released back into an environment they were never meant to be put into.
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