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Thread: How much of what I know is true?

  1. #1 How much of what I know is true? 
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    Hello everyone. My name is Felipe and I'm from Mexico, currently I'm studying a bachelors degree and I've decided to join this forum.
    I have found very hard to find people that actually listens, people open to discussion, people that doesn't just agree or silently disagree with a grimace on their face and because of that I'm scared.

    We all know a lot of things, but few of them are true, because what we know is mainly a construction of what many other people say, some of them are wrong, some just tell half of the truth, some don't tell the truth at all, and some times we just misunderstand.

    I belive that to avoid confirmation bias, to avoid misunderstanding, to avoid fallacies, to avoid any obstacle from finding the truth is necessary to find opposition, to find someone that challenges what you know using reason. I hope I can find that intellectual challenge here and I will do my best to contribute with this forum in return, so don't hesitate to ask for help or cooperation from me because I'll be pleased to provide it.


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  3. #2  
    Forum Professor scoobydoo1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felknight View Post
    How much of what I know is true?
    At least one.

    Welcome to the forums.


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  4. #3  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felknight View Post
    but few of them are true
    It depends on what you mean by "true".
    And also what you mean by "few of them".
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  5. #4  
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    People disagree with me and I disagree with most people.

    Science is not really about "truth".
    Science is more about getting what little we actually do know about things a bit less wrong.
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    Hi there Felknight - welcome! Whats that you are studying - at a guess I'd say psychology or philosophy ? Not only do people generally not listen properly but they dont read things properly either - starting to formulate their own response based on what they assume is being said or written from the first few words heard/written. Its very frustrating but that's people for you.

    All through my school years the things taught were presented as 'the truth' - undeniable facts, one answer and don't argue. I've spent most of my adult life discovering they lied....but its a good thing. In only considering things to be the best answer there is at the moment it gives scope for new understandings and progress whereas the 'truth' tends to be static.
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  7. #6  
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    Hi Felipe
    Welcome, and in my opinion science is journey. Which needs to be flexible to accept change and not accept the notion or dogma that because things were 'thus they should always be thus'.
    If you don't believe me look at the cures for a disease (Bubonic)which killed a substantial part of the population of Europe in the 14th Century and weep that we were so ignorant.
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  8. #7  
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    Hello all. Thanks for the welcome and thanks a lot for the answers you gave me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Felknight View Post
    but few of them are true
    It depends on what you mean by "true".
    And also what you mean by "few of them".
    I know defining what is true is very problematic, there are those who even say that truth is just a grammatical redundant term (Redundancy theory of truth), so to express what I believe is truth I'm just going to put in an example.

    Before Newton we did know that things fall. That is true
    After Newton and Before Einstein we learned that there is constant force that pull objects to those who have a huge amount of mass. That is true
    After Einstein we learned that those massive objects bend the space-time and because of that that force exists. That is true

    It's very improbable to have a complete understanding of any phenomena, but when we understand correctly one part of it I believe that we are able to say that we know something for true.

    In the opposite

    There is a illness that causes people to hear voices when no person is around. That is true
    This illness is caused by demons and must be treated with an exorcism. That is foolish and false

    Those kind of false statements are which I'm afraid of. Because it's very probable we believe a lot of them and finding and proving they are false is hard.

    All through my school years the things taught were presented as 'the truth' - undeniable facts, one answer and don't argue. I've spent most of my adult life discovering they lied....but its a good thing. In only considering things to be the best answer there is at the moment it gives scope for new understandings and progress whereas the 'truth' tends to be static.


    I understand your point of view, and I agree, but truth is just a term, and we use it because is easy, and besides it's hard to define we can understand it when someone uses it; and finally something that once was true when is proved wrong it becomes false, to me that's why science is about.
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  9. #8  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felknight View Post
    I know defining what is true is very problematic, there are those who even say that truth is just a grammatical redundant term (Redundancy theory of truth), so to express what I believe is truth I'm just going to put in an example.

    Before Newton we did know that things fall. That is true
    After Newton and Before Einstein we learned that there is constant force that pull objects to those who have a huge amount of mass. That is true
    After Einstein we learned that those massive objects bend the space-time and because of that that force exists. That is true

    It's very improbable to have a complete understanding of any phenomena, but when we understand correctly one part of it I believe that we are able to say that we know something for true.

    In the opposite

    There is a illness that causes people to hear voices when no person is around. That is true
    This illness is caused by demons and must be treated with an exorcism. That is foolish and false

    Those kind of false statements are which I'm afraid of. Because it's very probable we believe a lot of them and finding and proving they are false is hard.
    Ah, okay.
    "Correct" would probably be a better word than "true", but at least I agree with you on this.
    "True" has too many connotations.

    But you didn't answer my second question:
    And also what you mean by "few of them".
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    But you didn't answer my second question:
    Quote Originally Posted by Felknight View Post
    And also what you mean by "few of them".
    Ok you got me , when I wrote that I was thinking on the huge amount of information we know from many different sources, and it just improbable that the majority of them say the truth (or as you pointed out "correct ideas"). When I said few of them I was trying to emphasize that there is only small percent of ideas we can safely believe. I'm now sure about quantity, to give an specific percent would be foolish and depends on each person, so I said "few" instead.
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  11. #10  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    There's a world of difference between truth and facts. Facts can obscure the truth.
    Maya Angelou



    Truth is a deep kindness that teaches us to be content in our everyday life and share with the people the same happiness.
    Khalil Gibran



    The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable.
    James A. Garfield



    Seek not greatness, but seek truth and you will find both.
    Horace Mann
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felknight View Post
    Hello all. Thanks for the welcome and thanks a lot for the answers you gave me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Felknight View Post
    but few of them are true
    It depends on what you mean by "true".
    And also what you mean by "few of them".
    I know defining what is true is very problematic, there are those who even say that truth is just a grammatical redundant term (Redundancy theory of truth), so to express what I believe is truth I'm just going to put in an example.

    Before Newton we did know that things fall. That is true
    After Newton and Before Einstein we learned that there is constant force that pull objects to those who have a huge amount of mass. That is true
    After Einstein we learned that those massive objects bend the space-time and because of that that force exists. That is true

    It's very improbable to have a complete understanding of any phenomena, but when we understand correctly one part of it I believe that we are able to say that we know something for true.

    In the opposite

    There is a illness that causes people to hear voices when no person is around. That is true
    This illness is caused by demons and must be treated with an exorcism. That is foolish and false

    Those kind of false statements are which I'm afraid of. Because it's very probable we believe a lot of them and finding and proving they are false is hard.
    All through my school years the things taught were presented as 'the truth' - undeniable facts, one answer and don't argue. I've spent most of my adult life discovering they lied....but its a good thing. In only considering things to be the best answer there is at the moment it gives scope for new understandings and progress whereas the 'truth' tends to be static.


    I understand your point of view, and I agree, but truth is just a term, and we use it because is easy, and besides it's hard to define we can understand it when someone uses it; and finally something that once was true when is proved wrong it becomes false, to me that's why science is about.
    You have not stated what makes truth , truth, you have quoted some statements that you claim to be true. How do you know that they are true?
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    There's a world of difference between truth and facts. Facts can obscure the truth.
    Maya Angelou



    Truth is a deep kindness that teaches us to be content in our everyday life and share with the people the same happiness.
    Khalil Gibran



    The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable.
    James A. Garfield



    Seek not greatness, but seek truth and you will find both.
    Horace Mann
    So my friend, what do you say is truth?
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  14. #13  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    You have not stated what makes truth , truth, you have quoted some statements that you claim to be true.
    Correct.
    But anyone with at least two brain cells would be able to infer from those statements what makes "true true".

    How do you know that they are true?
    Because we can verify them.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  15. #14  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Stargate

    So my friend, what do you say is truth?
    There are many types of truths, yours, mine and others. The truth is to find which one all can agree upon together so that we all understand what the truth is.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
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  16. #15  
    Forum Masters Degree DianeG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felknight View Post
    Hello everyone. My name is Felipe and I'm from Mexico, currently I'm studying a bachelors degree and I've decided to join this forum.
    I have found very hard to find people that actually listens, people open to discussion, people that doesn't just agree or silently disagree with a grimace on their face and because of that I'm scared.

    We all know a lot of things, but few of them are true, because what we know is mainly a construction of what many other people say, some of them are wrong, some just tell half of the truth, some don't tell the truth at all, and some times we just misunderstand.
    I always wondered that as well. It's an interesting question even if you don't take into account personal bias or some fact that all of science has wrong. How much of what I know is inaccurate. A few months ago I was reading something that mentioned that the pyramids were 4,500 years old. For some reason, I thought they were more contemporary with Cleopatra/ Julius Ceasar. But they were already ancient at that point.

    Too many movies when I was a kid.

    I also wonder what percentage of what I used to know have I completely forgotten.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Stargate

    So my friend, what do you say is truth?
    There are many types of truths, yours, mine and others. The truth is to find which one all can agree upon together so that we all understand what the truth is.
    CT, now that you have revealed that there are many truths, I still want to know what is it? Give me a truth about yourself and how you know its the truth?
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    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forums Felknight.

    I take the position that all things are a working hypothesis from the perspective of the individual making the claim. Science does not prove anything to be 'true'. It only serves to demonstrate that a hypothesis has not yet been disproved.

    The only constant I have personally observed is change. No doubt there are some who will not agree with that comment even though I have qualified it as merely personal observation which no one else can conceivably verify anyway.
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  19. #18  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Stargate

    So my friend, what do you say is truth?
    There are many types of truths, yours, mine and others. The truth is to find which one all can agree upon together so that we all understand what the truth is.
    CT, now that you have revealed that there are many truths, I still want to know what is it? Give me a truth about yourself and how you know its the truth?
    My mind is always open to explore new thoughts and ideas. I see humans as just that, no color and no ethnicity but just humans. The truth is for every one thing I know there are a million things I don't know. I hope that answers your question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Stargate

    So my friend, what do you say is truth?
    There are many types of truths, yours, mine and others. The truth is to find which one all can agree upon together so that we all understand what the truth is.
    CT, now that you have revealed that there are many truths, I still want to know what is it? Give me a truth about yourself and how you know its the truth?
    My mind is always open to explore new thoughts and ideas. I see humans as just that, no color and no ethnicity but just humans. The truth is for every one thing I know there are a million things I don't know. I hope that answers your question.
    I was possible trying to get your view on what you call truth. I do not know total truth, only the truth as my own acceptance of reality. I am going with what Scheherazade said about change being the only constant, although there are changes withing the changes. I do agree with one specific point you make. As it seems I know one thing measured against the thousand things I don't know about the same thing. The question I ask myself is what do I really know and call truths? I may be able to just accept that I partially know anything I say I know.
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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The question I ask myself is what do I really know...
    On the evidence of your posts here the answer should be obvious: very little.

    ...and call truths?
    Mostly insupportable crap.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    The question I ask myself is what do I really know...
    On the evidence of your posts here the answer should be obvious: very little.
    ...and call truths?
    Mostly insupportable crap.
    Of all the vast amount of human knowledge that exists can even the best of us honestly claim to truly know more than very little?Are we not all still learning all the time, should we judge a person on their current level of knowledge or their ability and willingness to learn, also if we set out to judge others should we not ourselves also thus be judged by others and found wanting?
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  23. #22  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    should we judge a person on their current level of knowledge or their ability and willingness to learn
    When someone has shown themselves to be deficient in both of those aspects then, yeah. Given the nature of this site I'd say it's almost mandatory.

    also if we set out to judge others should we not ourselves also thus be judged by others and found wanting?
    You make that sound like a bad thing.
    I'm constantly finding out where I'm short on knowledge from reading posts on this forum. But I do try to learn and also do my best to not simply repeat things that have been pointed out as wrong as if they were incontrovertible fact.
    Something Stargate signally and consistently fails to do.
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    Northern Horse Whisperer Moderator scheherazade's Avatar
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    Most people are doing the best that they know how at any given time.

    For whatever reason, nature did not see fit to gift us all with the same degree of critical thinking skills, or artistic talent or physical ability.

    I quite enjoy the participation of the majority of the members at this forum precisely because of the diversity.
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  25. #24  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Stargate

    So my friend, what do you say is truth?
    There are many types of truths, yours, mine and others. The truth is to find which one all can agree upon together so that we all understand what the truth is.
    CT, now that you have revealed that there are many truths, I still want to know what is it? Give me a truth about yourself and how you know its the truth?
    My mind is always open to explore new thoughts and ideas. I see humans as just that, no color and no ethnicity but just humans. The truth is for every one thing I know there are a million things I don't know. I hope that answers your question.
    I was possible trying to get your view on what you call truth. I do not know total truth, only the truth as my own acceptance of reality. I am going with what Scheherazade said about change being the only constant, although there are changes withing the changes. I do agree with one specific point you make. As it seems I know one thing measured against the thousand things I don't know about the same thing. The question I ask myself is what do I really know and call truths? I may be able to just accept that I partially know anything I say I know.
    Truth constantly changes. Just look back a history and see that what we once thought was the truth, the sun rotates around the earth, is true back then until someone showed us differently.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Truth constantly changes.
    Nope.

    Just look back a history and see that what we once thought was the truth, the sun rotates around the earth, is true back then until someone showed us differently.
    But it wasn't true.
    It wasn't a fact.
    It wasn't actually the case.

    Belief (or even what we consider to be to be true 1) != true.

    1 Which is why science doesn't claim its results to be "the truth". Statements are qualified with "As best as we can ascertain the case is...".
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  27. #26  
    Bullshit Intolerant PhDemon's Avatar
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    Most people are doing the best that they know how at any given time. For whatever reason, nature did not see fit to gift us all with the same degree of critical thinking skills, or artistic talent or physical ability. I quite enjoy the participation of the majority of the members at this forum precisely because of the diversity
    I'm all for diversity but if a certain member persists in posting non-science, pseudoscientific nonsense and outright anti-science stupid on a science forum they are going to be judged on that by scientifically minded members. Whether that's a good or bad thing is a matter of opinion (I think you know my feelings on the subject) but it's going to happen.
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    LOL...I could win wagers by predicting the responses from various members.

    This is an introduction thread, however, and how quickly the question raised by Felknight gets over-looked in favor of pursuing Stargate.

    Although perhaps that is precisely what Felknight is expecting in responses.
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    So I'm predictable :shrug: Doesn't make me wrong
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhDemon View Post
    So I'm predictable :shrug: Doesn't make me wrong
    And another easy $5.00, lol...

    My apologies, Felknight. Sometimes these lads are just too much fun. Free entertainment.
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    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    I quite enjoy the participation of the majority of the members at this forum precisely because of the diversity.
    Ah yes. Diversity.
    Stargate style: everyone knows that horses are actually vegetables, and the best way to get them to show their wheels is by sticking a knitting needle into their gills twice a day.
    That is the equine equivalent of the scientific nonsense he posts as genuine.

    how quickly the question raised by Felknight gets over-looked
    Pfft, I, at least, have contributed to the topic. 1


    1 And yes, I'm going to put that in my diary...
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    Quote Originally Posted by scheherazade View Post
    LOL...I could win wagers by predicting the responses from various members.

    This is an introduction thread, however, and how quickly the question raised by Felknight gets over-looked in favor of pursuing Stargate.

    Although perhaps that is precisely what Felknight is expecting in responses.
    I have always said so, I would very much miss your advice and response on the forum if you were no longer there, simply because you put out extra effort to understand people no matter culture or misunderstanding. I think you have something exceptional and rare these days.
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