Thread: Annes hallucination

Lets assume that anne is an astronut who went on a space mission to mars five years back with her colleauge deana.but due to some caualties anne was forced to start the launch sequence leaving deana behind.<br>
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five years later....<br>
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anne now is in a laboratory when she suddenly started exonerating herself about the mars event.<br>
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anne is crying bitterly and she is giving a kind of gesture that seem as if she was trying to reach out for something but she did'nt touch it...(lets assume that what anne is seeing bis deanas helment.)<br>
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the question is this;<br>
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1.If you are anne,how can you tell that you are hallucinating and that the helment you are seeing is'nt real? (this is during the hallucination,not after)<br>
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2.If you are not anne,how can you tell in terms of anne the helment that seem real most/not real,between the helment of five years back and the current one you are seeing..(this also is at the time of the hallucination.)<br>
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If you are not anne you can never tell in terms of anne the helment that seem real most or the unreal one...even if you are given all the details about the two helments by anne herself.you will never still know this in terms of anne....<br>
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NOTE: you are not anne but you must tell this question two in terms of anne...<br>
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this is an argument i have put foorward to support the dualist view of reality in the mind body problem..<br>
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also note that anne is fine and she has no problem with her body chemistry that might have triggered this hallucination she is just hallucinating.

Originally Posted by merumario

also note that anne is fine and she has no problem with her body

I have no real idea what you are saying. Clearly, sometimes when people are hallucinating they are not aware of it, they think it is real. (Sometimes when people are hallucinating, they know it is not real.)

But just because they think the hallucination is real doesn't make it real. It is still just a hallucination.

yea its just an hallucination but it was not real to cos we are not the one hallucinating....

descartes said that the whole universe can be some kind of hallucination caused by a demon.

the universe can appear as that,what makes an hallucination less real?



what am trying to say is that whatever annes mind is doing to her was appearing real to her.and dere is no way we can knw how anne feels or what anne think of what she is seeing.,if we are nt anne we will never know.

its like the famous question; what does it feel like to be a bat?

this is one of the most important problems in philosophy. it was put forward by Rene descartes. but was worked on by plato and aristotle before descartes.


the question is; is the human mind separate from the body itself and if its how then can the mind which is immaterial interact with the body which is material.where does this interaction take place?


descartes himself did not bring a satisfactory answer.(as he said the interaction takes place in the pineal gland.



plato believe on the view that the mind is the only thing real and that all matter are merely shadow.

most physicist believe in physicalism.the idea that the mind are body are one. and that consciousness is of physical and not immaterial. but they have not presented views of the mind been dependent on the brain..

as descartes is a dualist who believe that the mind is separate from the body,but this two distinct substance can interact...(that what i believe)
what do you believe?


NOTE:the above is larger and dis is just to summarize the whole thing..i hope it becomes clearer as we discus on this.

Originally Posted by merumario

this is one of the most important problems in philosophy.

Really? Sounds like the sort of question that gives philosophy a bad name.

the question is; is the human mind separate from the body itself and if its how then can the mind which is immaterial interact with the body which is material.where does this interaction take place?

That sound like as good an argument as any that the mind is not some magical immaterial thing. It is far simpler to just say that consciousness arises from the functioning of the brain. All the "philosophical" problems then disappear.

Originally Posted by merumario

yea its just an hallucination but it was not real to cos we are not the one hallucinating....

Yes, that is the definition of a hallucination. Something that is not real.

so its same thing scientist would like to think.simplicity.


they avoid the fact that the mind is an immaterial substance...am saying this because am a dualist and i have some leading things to back the past dualist am just waiting for some kind of valid proof.


if we take your word as its easy to say that consciousness is of the brain then explain what consciousness is in terms of the word mind or just explain what is the world mind.

it should be known to you that neuroscience have not been able to pin-point consciousness.

and how do u explain what it feels like to be a bat?

even if you know from a third person of science how the sonar system of a bat works,you will never still know how it feels like to be a bat.

lewis once said if my mind is dependent on my brain and my brain on biochemistry,and biochemistry on the long runs of atoms,then i have no need to say that my beliefs are true and that my brain consist of atoms...

the laws of physics are universal but they cannot explain the matters of the heart such as love.