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Thread: Will You Judge This Introduction By Its Cover?

  1. #1 Will You Judge This Introduction By Its Cover? 
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    Hello, I am the SatanicScientist. The username is due to the fact that I am a LaVeyan Satanist, which, for those that may not know, is atheist. I am big into particle physics, psychology, evolutionary biology, and philosophy as well as many other subjects. So due to such a wide field of subjects, my posts will be all over the forum if you can keep up! Thank you for reading (if anyone did in the first place) and I'll be posting around shortly.


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    Quote Originally Posted by SatanicScientist View Post
    Hello, I am the SatanicScientist. The username is due to the fact that I am a LaVeyan Satanist, which, for those that may not know, is atheist. I am big into particle physics, psychology, evolutionary biology, and philosophy as well as many other subjects. So due to such a wide field of subjects, my posts will be all over the forum if you can keep up! Thank you for reading (if anyone did in the first place) and I'll be posting around shortly.
    Not only different but your introductory post couldn't have come at a better time*. No time to explain but welcome to the forum.

    *The Satanist-atheist-scientist angle seems interesting. I might need to borrow it someday.


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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Nietzche is generally misunderstood and while Atlas Shrugged remains one of my favourite books it doesn't mean Rand wasn't full of shit. I'll be interested to see how you square the LaVeyan principles with the reality of evolutionary principles. Not quite squaring the circle, but as close as one can get in an uncertain world. Welcome.
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    Could you perhaps elaborate a little on your beliefs? Doesn't satanism imply a belief in the "opposite side" as, far instance, Christianity? Does it not therefore imply the recognition of a deity? Does that not clash with the strict meaning of the word atheism (no God exists)?
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    Gerdagewig, I can't speak for SatanicScientist, but I can tell you that most "Satanists" do not believe there is an actual entity of Satan or of God. It is more about rejecting the old paradigms of "Good vs. Evil" and all that it implies. Those paradigms are generally represented by belief in a single God, so Satan is the natural opposite, a way of saying, "Nope, I don't believe in that."
    "The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is... doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting sh*t dead wrong."

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    LaVeyan Satanism does not believe in a god or Satan, or the paranormal. They use the symbolisms like they are supposed to be used - symbolically. They have rituals, which are also purely symbolic. The first "sin" in Satanism is "stupidity". Welcome to the forum.
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    I would also love to talk about LaVeyan Satanism, like, why all the rituals and such in the first place?

    Welcome!
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaL View Post
    Gerdagewig, I can't speak for SatanicScientist, but I can tell you that most "Satanists" do not believe there is an actual entity of Satan or of God. It is more about rejecting the old paradigms of "Good vs. Evil" and all that it implies. Those paradigms are generally represented by belief in a single God, so Satan is the natural opposite, a way of saying, "Nope, I don't believe in that."
    I get your argument that their use of the term Satanism is in fact an anti-religion stance and not a pro-"evil" stance ("evil" referring to the opposite of what most religions claim to stand for). However, I think there are various problems with the use of the term in this context. First of all, it groups them together with people who really do believe in and serve a deity that stands in opposition to the God of traditional religions, which seems like an unnecessary confusion to me. Secondly (and linked to the first), the use of the term is therefore an obvious attempt to be controversial and to make some kind of statement. This seems to me to conflict with what they claim to stand for, which can be summarized as a belief that only logic and reason should rule people and their actions, not the belief in a deity which often have very bad consequences. The term they use to describe their belief therefore undermine themselves, because it moves away from logic and reason and comments on an emotional level.
    Last edited by Gerdagewig; October 9th, 2012 at 07:17 AM.
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    Your user name indicates to me that you have some sort of agenda. I've always thought that a scientific discussion of religious topics, or any other topic on a science forum, should just be based on facts and logic. No one else should know or care what you believe about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370 View Post
    Your user name indicates to me that you have some sort of agenda. I've always thought that a scientific discussion of religious topics, or any other topic on a science forum, should just be based on facts and logic. No one else should know or care what you believe about it.
    I agree. As I said above, the use of the word Satan indicates some sort of agenda and in my opinion actually undermines the principles he stands for because it moves away from logic and reason into the emotional.

    I hope the SatanicScientist can reply soon and explain himself better - maybe I'm missing something?
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    Judging by the Wikipedia entry (possibly not fair) it appears to be The Church of the Supremely Arrogant.

    But maybe the OP has just gone back and checked the rules:
    1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
    And realised that he shouldn't be posting his ideas on a forum after all.

    It also says that Satanists do not believe in the supernatural. But they do believe in magic. Weird, huh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerdagewig View Post
    First of all, it groups them together with people who really do believe in and serve a deity that stands in opposition to the God of traditional religions...
    I've heard this before, but never seen any evidence that such people exist, excepting the occasional lone individual who operates on their own, not as part of a community. To my knowledge is there is no such thing as a community of "actual" satanists, so any confusion is due purely to the listeners not having knowledge of the topic. Though I would be curious if someone knows of such a community.
    "The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is... doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting sh*t dead wrong."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Judging by the Wikipedia entry (possibly not fair) it appears to be The Church of the Supremely Arrogant.

    But maybe the OP has just gone back and checked the rules:
    1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
    And realised that he shouldn't be posting his ideas on a forum after all.

    It also says that Satanists do not believe in the supernatural. But they do believe in magic. Weird, huh.
    To them, "magic" is not paranormal. The word is also used symbolically to mean something like "getting shit done no matter what".
    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaL View Post
    I've heard this before, but never seen any evidence that such people exist, excepting the occasional lone individual who operates on their own, not as part of a community. To my knowledge is there is no such thing as a community of "actual" satanists, so any confusion is due purely to the listeners not having knowledge of the topic. Though I would be curious if someone knows of such a community.
    A quick search reveals that large parts of satanism is Theistic, therefore serving a deity that stands in opposition to Christianity. Even though these people are not as dangerous and criminal as made out by traditional churches, any confusion about using the term satanism is therefore not "due purely to the listeners not having knowledge of the topic".

    So, I still think the name is very loaded and not based on the search for truth and reason, but rather on the desire to be controversial and elicit emotional responses, which is contradictory to their stated intentions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerdagewig View Post
    A quick search reveals that large parts of satanism is Theistic, therefore serving a deity that stands in opposition to Christianity. Even though these people are not as dangerous and criminal as made out by traditional churches, any confusion about using the term satanism is therefore not "due purely to the listeners not having knowledge of the topic".

    So, I still think the name is very loaded and not based on the search for truth and reason, but rather on the desire to be controversial and elicit emotional responses, which is contradictory to their stated intentions.
    I'm sorry, can you clarify "a quick search"? o.O I'm willing to except you're correct, but following the old adage, don't believe everything you read, I would like to know the source is credible at least before changing my opinion.

    EDIT: since I am asking for material, I ought to provide some of my own. To wit: linky!

    Aside form that, we can safely say that the screen name does indeed illicit strong emotional response. We don't have to know the OP's intention to state this is the case. But, I maintain these strong emotions are the result of fear born from misunderstanding. If the very idea of God and Satan were completely foreign to you, this screen name would illicit no emotional response whatever. Unless maybe you knew someone named Satan, then perhaps the screen name would remind you of him, and you would wonder whatever happened to that guy after graduation. Er... too much coffee this morning, sorry.
    Last edited by JoshuaL; October 10th, 2012 at 12:37 PM.
    "The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is... doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting sh*t dead wrong."

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaL View Post

    Aside form that, we can safely say that the screen name does indeed illicit strong emotional response. We don't have to know the OP's intention to state this is the case. But, I maintain these strong emotions are the result of fear born from misunderstanding. If the very idea of God and Satan were completely foreign to you, this screen name would illicit no emotional response whatever. .
    Yes, of course not knowing anything about the names would not illicit much of a response, but knowing what Satan means, does not automatically mean a reaction would be borne out of fear. I also don't see strong emotions expressed in this thread either.

    The point remains, why make use of Satan's name, if not to Invoke a reaction among those sensitive to the name?
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    OK, I'm coming around to your way of thinking here. Just one last question, if I may play devil's advocate. Might it actually be more useful to have people's screen names tell us exactly what to expect from them? In my brief time here I have seen a lot of crackpots, for lack of a better word. Would it be useful to know that going in? So, basically, my argument here is that I like this persons screen name because I have a sense what to expect right up front.

    Now that I've written that, I can see how it fails horribly, since there is no consensus understanding of the word satan--every viewer of the name will imagine a completely different thing, thus rendering any utility impotent.

    So, do you guys enforce name changes, or is this an academic discussion?
    "The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is... doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting sh*t dead wrong."

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    No, we don't just change people's names, unless it is something very inappropriate. This discussion is just out of interest.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaL View Post
    if I may play devil's advocate.
    Was that deliberate?

    Might it actually be more useful to have people's screen names tell us exactly what to expect from them?
    That might be useful. There a few, like "mathman" or "Dr Rocket" (not here any more, I gather, which is a shame) which are suitably revealing.

    And then there are names like "Einstein the Second", which could be someone brilliant or merely (and more likely) just someone who thinks they are brilliant.

    In my brief time here I have seen a lot of crackpots, for lack of a better word. Would it be useful to know that going in?
    The mods could just change their names (or titles) to "Crackpot 1" etc. but it would get very confusing. It is probably better that they have "random" names.

    So, basically, my argument here is that I like this persons screen name because I have a sense what to expect right up front.
    It strikes me as "wacky" but not negative.

    But I hope the discussion in this thread hasn't caused him to stop his "if you can keep up" posting after two posts
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    Likewise.
    (yes, it was deliberate )
    Last edited by JoshuaL; October 10th, 2012 at 11:43 PM.
    "The only appropriate attitude for man to have about the big questions is... doubt. Doubt is humble, and that's what man needs to be, considering that human history is just a litany of getting sh*t dead wrong."

    Take two of these and call me in the morning
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    And me.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaL View Post

    I'm sorry, can you clarify "a quick search"? o.O I'm willing to except you're correct, but following the old adage, don't believe everything you read, I would like to know the source is credible at least before changing my opinion.

    EDIT: since I am asking for material, I ought to provide some of my own. To wit: linky!

    .
    As I said, my search was quick. It only took me as far as Wiki ( Satanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) and a few links from there. Even though Wiki doesn't rank high as a proper reference, your reference could be argued to be even less so, because it's written subjectively from a Satanic view and not from the objective view of the Wiki page. I therefore still think I'm probably right in saying that a big portion of Satanists are theists.

    Be that as it may, it seems that we basically agree about the "loaded" nature of the name and our desire to hear more from the SatanicScientist who made such a nice entry to this forum but hasn't shown up since!
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    It's getting to where the Introduction subforum is becoming a rich source of opinions. There should be some kind of award for starting a debate while introducing yourself.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerdagewig View Post
    Could you perhaps elaborate a little on your beliefs? Doesn't satanism imply a belief in the "opposite side" as, far instance, Christianity? Does it not therefore imply the recognition of a deity? Does that not clash with the strict meaning of the word atheism (no God exists)?
    The Church Of Satan uses such names as personifications of parts of ones' self, as the self is the most important thing to a Satanist. So, in some ways, the opposite of Buddhism. A commonly used phrase to describe our philosophy to others is that "We are atheist, but more than that, we are I-theist." If you would like to learn more about it yourself, go to Welcome to the Church of Satan or you can read such wonderful books as The Satanic Bible or The Satanic Scriptures. I hope this helps and have fun!


    I can't believe this all started from my one paragraph introduction. Regardless it seems necessary to touch on the topic of satanic magic. Magic, to the Satanist, means to change things which, by normal means, would be unchangeable (or at least very difficult). "Magical energy" is some sort of currently unexplainable bioelectric shedding caused by intense emotions which can be manipulated (such manipulators are, for whatever reason, are called sorcerers, wizards, etc.) and heightened during rituals. Rituals are how such energy can be manipulated for three different reasons which constitute what is known as Greater Magic. Those three Greater Magic rituals are Compassion (the favoring of those whom deserve the magician's compassion), Destruction (the annihilation of the magician's enemies), and Lust (the calling forth of a suitable mate). Not all Satanists believe magic is real, so they perform such rituals as psychodrama to fuel their ego. Whether it is true or not,it is far less ridiculous than the features of other religious establishments.I apologize for any grammar, spelling or punctuation mistakes as I am posting with a smartphone that features a crappy keyboard.
    Last edited by John Galt; October 22nd, 2012 at 03:00 AM. Reason: Merge two adjacent posts.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SatanicScientist View Post
    I am posting with a smartphone that features a crappy keyboard.
    That will be an Android device, then.

    But ... couldn't you have used magic?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    It's getting to where the Introduction subforum is becoming a rich source of opinions. There should be some kind of award for starting a debate while introducing yourself.
    It seems as if that would be appropriate and I would accept such an award with open arms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SatanicScientist View Post
    I am posting with a smartphone that features a crappy keyboard.
    That will be an Android device, then. But ... couldn't you have used magic?
    That's actually pretty funny. Kudos to you. Also, the smartphone is in fact an Android. More kudos to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by pyoko View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Judging by the Wikipedia entry (possibly not fair) it appears to be The Church of the Supremely Arrogant.But maybe the OP has just gone back and checked the rules:
    1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
    And realised that he shouldn't be posting his ideas on a forum after all.It also says that Satanists do not believe in the supernatural. But they do believe in magic. Weird, huh.
    To them, "magic" is not paranormal. The word is also used symbolically to mean something like "getting shit done no matter what".
    Thank you for explaining.
    Last edited by John Galt; October 22nd, 2012 at 03:01 AM. Reason: Merge three adjacent posts.
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