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| rhysboi1991 |
 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: intelligence question... please answer |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Cumbria, North West England
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hypothetically speaking...if my family tree and my partners family tree were very intelligent would my child have the ability to understand subjects that we could not have.
and say if adam and eve (the supposed starters of our race) were in the same situation would our minds be able to further understand science in present day for example would we have more people like einstein and newton?
if you would like me to elaborate this just ask  |
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 569
Location: Montreal
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| No, that would suggests lamarckian evolution, you don't pass on traits gained from the environment. There is a correlation between genetics and intelligence, but it's not like the IQ of the parents is added together to make the IQ of the child. |
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| rhysboi1991 |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Cumbria, North West England
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| i didnt mean an increase of intelligence such as that but would it give the child a small increase of intelligence? |
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 569
Location: Montreal
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| rhysboi1991 wrote: |
| i didnt mean an increase of intelligence such as that but would it give the child a small increase of intelligence? |
Unlikely, best bet to increase the intelligence of the next generation is to improve early childhood education and diet during pregnancy. |
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| JaneBennet |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 669
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It is simply not true that if both parents share a common trait, then the child is bound to have it. 
In the case of a Mendelian trait, it is possible for both parents to have the same trait and for the child not to have it. Indeed, in such a case, the parents can’t really be said to have the trait (they only appear to have it) since each of them has both a dominant gene and a recessive gene for that trait. If their child inherits the recessive gene from each parent (and there’s a 25% chance that this may happen) then the child will totally not have that trait.
Sorry I’m not a biologist – but I hope I’m not talking nonsense.  Also I’m not talking specifically about any “intelligence trait” (which may not be Mendelian) – I’m only talking about the common notion that children always inherit their parents’ features. |
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| kojax |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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The upbringing you two impart will probably be very helpful, however. The children of smart parents tend to have advantages in their education that go far beyond mere genetics.
Smart parents will have intellectual conversations in the home. They'll challenge their children by having slightly higher expectations, and they'll usually know how to explain things better, if the child has a question about something. |
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| Pendragon |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:58 am Post subject: |
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| kojax wrote: |
The upbringing you two impart will probably be very helpful, however. The children of smart parents tend to have advantages in their education that go far beyond mere genetics.
Smart parents will have intellectual conversations in the home. They'll challenge their children by having slightly higher expectations, and they'll usually know how to explain things better, if the child has a question about something. |
Yea, while I'm not at all an expert in the field it seems to me that children start with a range of IQ instead of a certain fixed level. Intelligent, committed parents can boost a kid with a medium IQ range to the top of his abilities. They probably can't turn him into a genius but I'd be surprised if they couldn't make a significant difference.
Just an example: children seem to have a 'why' phase when they're 7 or 8 or so. They question everything you tell them as if to practise with their new mental tools. "It's nice weather". why? "The sun is shining" why? "eh there are no clouds blocking it" why? "eh.. the air isn't humid enough for clouds to develop?" why? etc. Often parents get annoyed by this and think the kid is just challenging them or making fun of them. But I suppose intelligent parents would be willing and able to play the game along, and in the process help their children develop their general knowledge and their logic skills.
Btw a question: sometimes people say that children mostly inherit their intelligence from the mother, not the father. Is that complete nonsense? Or perhaps it's the mother who contributes most to the development of the child's mental skills (as she spends most time with him/her), rather than passing more 'good genes' to the child, hence an intelligent mother contributes more to the mental development of the child than an intelligent father? |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:55 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
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Location: Now
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy wrote: |
| No, that would suggests lamarckian evolution, you don't pass on traits gained from the environment. There is a correlation between genetics and intelligence, but it's not like the IQ of the parents is added together to make the IQ of the child. |
Thats your opinion. The nature/nurture debate still rages on today.
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| paralith |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition wrote: |
| i_feel_tiredsleepy wrote: |
| No, that would suggests lamarckian evolution, you don't pass on traits gained from the environment. There is a correlation between genetics and intelligence, but it's not like the IQ of the parents is added together to make the IQ of the child. |
Thats your opinion. The nature/nurture debate still rages on today. |
Lamarckism is not part of the nature/nurture debate. It is, with very few and very specific exceptions, wrong. Genetic inheritance at the very least does not function that way. Nature/nurture does not address inheritance of genes but the development of your phenotype during your lifetime.
As for the genetic component of intelligence, it is possible that it may have the potential to be additive. It depends on the nature of the genes that determine it, the vast majority of which are at this point unidentified, so we can't be sure right now.
So, speaking COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICALLY: it is possible that some of the genes determining intelligence may depend on copy number. The more copies you have, the more intelligent you are. So, if the genetic dice roll in such a way that ALL of both you and your mate's copies get passed on to your child, then that child will have the sum level of intelligence. But it's not necessarily going to be that way. The dice could roll in such a way that the child ends up with less total copies than either parent.
That only holds of course if that's the genetic mechanism of intelligence, and my guess is that it is far more complicated than that. Not to mention the fact that the environmental input may be just as important, or maybe even more important, than the genetic input when it comes to overall intelligence.
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| JaneBennet |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Apr 2008
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition wrote: |
| i_feel_tiredsleepy wrote: |
| No, that would suggests lamarckian evolution, you don't pass on traits gained from the environment. There is a correlation between genetics and intelligence, but it's not like the IQ of the parents is added together to make the IQ of the child. |
Thats your opinion. The nature/nurture debate still rages on today. |
I_feel_tiredsleepy is correct though. Traits that are acquired during the lifetime of an individual are not passed on through genes. Lamarckism (as this theory is called) has been emprically disproved. |
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| kojax |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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It gains its partial credibility from the fact that the environment (the source of one's experiences) selects *against* bad traits. So, by elimination, the experiences of a species as a whole can determine the direction that species' evolution takes.
But, for individuals, all their life experience determines about their offspring is whether they'll have any. |
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| Design |
| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 3:21 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 18 May 2008
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Since when was knowledge passed through genes?
Sure, they could have a good mind as in a healthy mind, and less likely to accumulate mental problems, but it doesn't allow them to miraculously understand things.
Experience and knowledge -which is gained through life, allows us to reason and to solve problems. |
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| Pong |
| Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: intelligence question... please answer |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 977
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Why is this is pseudoscience?
| rhysboi1991 wrote: |
| hypothetically speaking...if my family tree and my partners family tree were very intelligent would my child have the ability to understand subjects that we could not have. |
If the child is raised by the natural parents then yes, because most of "intelligence" is learned. And it builds through generations at a monsterous rate. If we're talking about adoptees (genetics only) then no (no more than the overall gain), as explained by previous posters. |
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| ImSetFree |
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
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My mother is an idiot.
And I pass as smart. |
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
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Location: Cardiff, Wales
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only an idiot (and a rude one at that) would call his mother an idiot
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biology without evolution is but stamp collecting |
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