| Would a homework help forum be a good idea? |
| yea |
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64% |
[ 9 ] |
| nah |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
| maybe if... (please elaborate) |
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28% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 14 |
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| paralith |
 Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:01 pm Post subject: homework help forum |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 1032
Location: Washington, DC
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I'm not sure how I feel about this myself, so I figured I'd put it before the rest of you.
A lot of younger people come to this forum with the mistaken notion that we'll do their homework problems for them. However, the negative responses they often get leave them with a bad impression of the members of this forum, and the idea that this place can't be helpful to them at all. And I disagree with that. This is a great place to learn from other people and get a taste for scientific discussion, and I would hate to turn kids away from here unnecessarily.
I thought that it might help if there was a homework help forum, probably stuck at the top of the homepage somewhere, so it's easy for newcomers to see. We could keep a big ole sticky thread in there that says with capital letters READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST! In which we could explain what we will and will not do when it comes to homework help.
Examples - We will not do your research for you, but if you need tips on how to do research then we can point you in the right direction. If you've done your research and still have trouble understanding certain issues or concepts, you can come and discuss them with us. If you want critiques of your already written answers, you can ask us. Etc.
And, even for those complete newbies who simply don't get it and still post the unacceptable questions anyway, at least they will (hopefully) be localized in a single forum and not spread across the different forums.
What do you guys think?
_________________
Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
~Jean-Paul Sartre
Monkeys in Clothes - hosted by SFN blogs |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Let me be very clear on this question, others may disagree, and although I am a mod, this view is my personal view illustrated with a few examples...
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| OMG OMG OMG! I need help guys, this paper has to be in tomorrow and I still need answers to these 50 questions |
Trashed and locked - no question, the person has made no attempt to find the answers.
I will not answer or encourage others to answer such posts, many of these are from new posters who seem to join every forum they can and post only once.
Whether new or existing member forget it.
Similarly any question where the poster cannot show their work so far (ie has made no attempt to even start), should not be answered, or helped, if you listen to your lecturer and are genuinely interested in the subject you will have a clear idea on how to proceed.
Sometimes, [I know] questions are posed to students in areas they are unfamiliar with, and this is to assess the student's ability to research and answer. THis is the way things work when you are thrown into the big wide world.
So I do not and will not directly answer any that I think are homework questions in any circumstances.
Homework can be debated but asking homework questions is not as such a debate topic, so all homework questions I see go to the trash bin.
Guidance however in a way that taxes the student is permissable;
| Quote: |
| Help guys, I've done this question 50 times but I always get the same answer of xyz which suggests I am left with more than I started with |
THe first reply should always be something along the lines of "Show us the working so far..."
After which you can then help by saying something like "Are you sure you are using the right constant ?" which is clearly code for wrong value in the formula.
It may be the approach of the student that is wrong, in which case you could suggest 'look up the laws of jam making by hartley rather than marmalade"
So there are no hard and fast rules, indeed if you really want to answer a homework question just PM them with the answer and NOT the working, then either they use it and fail (through not showing the working) or work till they get the same answer.
Clear? |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:23 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 3145
Location: Now
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I think its a great idea. We can simply just point them in the right direction as you've said Paralith. We could in essence be second, third, fourth etc, teachers to them. We don't do their work for them. Just help them. Helping them walk so they don't run or don't walk at all.
_________________
An apple a day... Oh never mind. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| svwillmer wrote: |
| Helping them walk so they don't run or don't walk at all. |
Yuu mean like dead or crippled for life? |
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| paralith |
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 1032
Location: Washington, DC
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| Megabrain wrote: |
Let me be very clear on this question, others may disagree, and although I am a mod, this view is my personal view illustrated with a few examples...
| Quote: |
| OMG OMG OMG! I need help guys, this paper has to be in tomorrow and I still need answers to these 50 questions |
Trashed and locked - no question, the person has made no attempt to find the answers.
I will not answer or encourage others to answer such posts, many of these are from new posters who seem to join every forum they can and post only once.
Whether new or existing member forget it. |
MB, we have no idea how young the people posting these questions are. Though they have made no effort a good deal of them probably just don't understand forum etiquette. I see no reason why they can't be dealt with civilly, and at least be told in a somewhat polite manner why their question will not be answered. And in a homework help subforum, you won't have to hunt each one down and trash it - it will just be in a place where these posts can be easily found and dealt with.
I see you put a sticky in the general discussion subforum, but I think it's pretty safe to say that's not visible enough. The desperate posters aren't going to bother to look in there before they post.
_________________
Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
~Jean-Paul Sartre
Monkeys in Clothes - hosted by SFN blogs |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| Perhaps Mr U will read and answer then, as I said these are my feelings on the subject, (the locked bit should not be in that post) what I have put in place may not be best solution but creating new threads is not my remit, I am only a moderator here. |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 3145
Location: Now
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| Megabrain wrote: |
| "If science isn't simple, it isn't science, it's bullshit" |
I find science simple all told, what does that mean?  .
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An apple a day... Oh never mind. |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 1905
Location: South Africa
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| Quote: |
| And in a homework help subforum, you won't have to hunt each one down and trash it - it will just be in a place where these posts can be easily found and dealt with. |
Also, a browser might see a heading that pertains to his question and then he does not even have to bother us. We might even assemble a homework squad or the names of credible members might be added to the sticky (which won’t include mine  ) so they know who to listen to.
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"Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan |
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| paralith |
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 1032
Location: Washington, DC
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| KALSTER wrote: |
| Quote: |
| And in a homework help subforum, you won't have to hunt each one down and trash it - it will just be in a place where these posts can be easily found and dealt with. |
Also, a browser might see a heading that pertains to his question and then he does not even have to bother us. We might even assemble a homework squad or the names of credible members might be added to the sticky (which won’t include mine ) so they know who to listen to. |
I agree. We could even have sticky threads with links to reference pages that have been found to be reliable by other forum members, or guides on how to do research.
_________________
Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
~Jean-Paul Sartre
Monkeys in Clothes - hosted by SFN blogs |
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| goodgod3rd |
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 899
Location: Donegal Ireland
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| I see no reason why they can't be dealt with civilly |
I agree, there is no need for some of the replies i have seen to homework posters.
The idea is a good one but there would need to be some issues looked at, and a sticky/rule book would need to be applied and enforced. (as im sure it would)
and important - a reminder to all posters that information found on-line cannot always be relied upon.
Edit- i tutor students who are doing their Leaving Cert (Alevels/final high school years) in biology. More often than not, when they say they don't know the answer, i give em a nudge and they get it almost straight away. Why cant this be the case here?
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| paralith |
| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 1032
Location: Washington, DC
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| goodgod3rd wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I see no reason why they can't be dealt with civilly |
I agree, there is no need for some of the replies i have seen to homework posters.
The idea is a good one but there would need to be some issues looked at, and a sticky/rule book would need to be applied and enforced. (as im sure it would)
and important - a reminder to all posters that information found on-line cannot always be relied upon. |
Definitely. But again, that's something they could come to us with - I found this source, but I've had trouble verifying the information it gave me, what do you guys know about it? etc.
| Quote: |
| Edit- i tutor students who are doing their Leaving Cert (Alevels/final high school years) in biology. More often than not, when they say they don't know the answer, i give em a nudge and they get it almost straight away. Why cant this be the case here? |
I agree completely. There have been times when I replied to a person's homework questions with more questions that would point them in the right direction - all of which came to nothing when another poster came in after me, laughing and saying that I must be a teacher, and just giving all the answers. I would hope that a homework help forum would also contain guidelines for responders to posted questions.
_________________
Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
~Jean-Paul Sartre
Monkeys in Clothes - hosted by SFN blogs |
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| Dark_Fire |
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 9
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Hey all.
I do realize this thread is months ago, but i also might have a answer.
I recently started a forum http://www.homeworkhelp.co.za/forum
As you can see its still very new and Im trying to build it up. Im also looking for interesting links that I can use as reference where people can have educational discussions/information. Was thinking we could go into some kinda agreement?
I link to your site and you guys link to ours. Then we get all the homework questions?
Let me know. Thanks.  |
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| paralith |
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 1032
Location: Washington, DC
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Hello Dark_Fire. I don't know how the other forum members or mods feel, but this is my take:
My problem isn't that we get homework questions in the first place. I'm not looking to shunt them all off somewhere else. I just hoped that forming a separate homework subforum would (1) help members here respond to students asking questions appropriately and (2) better help those students.
I looked at your forum and I applaud your effort, but it worries me somewhat. I do not think that a homework help forum should be a place where students come, ask their homework questions, and get someone else to find the answer for them. Granted, your forum is brand new and I only saw one genuine homework question, but that's exactly what happened. The point should not be to do students' work for them, but to help them learn how to do their own work. I strongly believe that this is an extremely important skill for students to learn.
I think a homework forum should be a place where students can get clarification on research they have already done, tips on how to do research, have someone look over and edit their already written responses, etc. And right now I don't know if that's what your forum will be.
_________________
Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
~Jean-Paul Sartre
Monkeys in Clothes - hosted by SFN blogs |
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| Demen Tolden |
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 387
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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If you are in the role of a teacher, I think its best to just answer questions with well planned questions of your own. Your objective is not to give the answer but to help the student find the answer.
http://www.garlikov.com/Soc_Meth.html
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Emotions are contagious, and passions create room for ignorance. Please treat others with kindness so that we can all understand each other and are not waylaid by needless hostility. |
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 4414
Location: Scotland
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| Demen Tolden wrote: |
| If you are in the role of a teacher, I think its best to just answer questions with well planned questions of your own. |
What makes you say that? 
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The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
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