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Thread: Bloody foreigners!

  1. #1 Bloody foreigners! 
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian.
    Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican.
    Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian.
    Churchill was half American.

    Discuss.


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    We are all humans - countries and borders are man-made nonsenses which serve to divide people. We are all bloody foreigners :-)


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    I could give the Native American viewpoint...
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    And William the Conqueror wasn't French!
    But he was a bastard.
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    Is Superman American?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Is Superman American?
    He's from India.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    And William the Conqueror wasn't French!
    Those Vikings get everywhere.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Let's see....my father's family wound up in Slovenia.......and we traced him back to Scotland .....and you wonder where my red hair comes from?
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  10. #9  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
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    Clive of India wasn't Indian and Lawrence of Arabia wasn't an Arab.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian.
    Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican.
    Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian.
    Churchill was half American.

    Discuss.
    Well what I think we can see in both Hitler and Stalin is some similarity in their determination, they weren't encumbered by their own nationalistic identities, they never accepted roles that mean't they would only ever be seen as their nationality by birth, they indeed were ruthless in their ambitions to the point where things such as their place of origin became trivialities, it was an iron will and force of personality that set them apart.

    By contrast Winston Churchill was altogether a much more different character, born into privilege he wasn't driven to escape his roots like, Stalin and Hilter. He had a nice life, good upbringing, good education, it was always expected that he would be somebody and do something of significance with his life. It was perhaps however a touch of destiny that would bring all 3 leaders together to help decide the fate of millions and who would be victorious upon the world's battlefields.

    By the time of the start of World War 2 Churchill had already served his time in parliament and was considered, an old timer, few thought that he would ever again see real political power, but it was his persistance and vision, against the many doubters, that led to him taking over as Prime Minister of the entire British Empire and to do battle with the Nazi war machine. But it was also his American connections that afforded him credibility to negotiate and convince President Roosevelt of the dangers posed by the Axis powers and ultimately to support in the British war effort.

    The national identity of all the great war time leaders has played it's part in helping to shape the key roles that each would go on to play, but maybe we can speculate that perhaps given the strength of personality for each, in reality their nationality was never a key factor and they were always destined to be the men they were.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian.
    Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican.
    Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian.
    Churchill was half American.

    Discuss.
    OK. They all did their dirty-work away from point of origin. jocular
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    And William the Conqueror wasn't French!
    Those Vikings get everywhere.
    First hand knowledge in that one!
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian.
    Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican.
    Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian.
    Churchill was half American.

    Discuss.

    OK. They all did their dirty-work away from point of origin. jocular
    So what does that say about Obama?

    Some people accuse him of caring more about Kenya than the USA.

    Are people who aren't native to the land they rule less likely to treat the natives with respect?
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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    Some people accuse him of caring more about Kenya than the USA.
    You mean Rush Limbaugh and the Tea Party?

    He was born in Hawaii. And to my knowledge, he hasn't done anything for Kenya.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian.
    Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican.
    Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian.
    Churchill was half American.

    Discuss.

    OK. They all did their dirty-work away from point of origin. jocular
    So what does that say about Obama?

    Some people accuse him of caring more about Kenya than the USA.

    Are people who aren't native to the land they rule less likely to treat the natives with respect?
    Well, the European immigrants weren't exactly pleasant to the natives of North America. This is probably why people today seem almost instinctively suspicious of strangers who are noticeably different than themselves. If the North American natives had had the good the good sense to kill the first foreigner that landed on their soil, they may still be around today.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post

    Well, the European immigrants weren't exactly pleasant to the natives of North America. This is probably why people today seem almost instinctively suspicious of strangers who are noticeably different than themselves. If the North American natives had had the good the good sense to kill the first foreigner that landed on their soil, they may still be around today.
    I think their own greed for conquest got the better of them. Must remember they were not a united group. The new settlers had gun powder weapons, which made them useful allies for one tribe to make war upon another. They could tip the balance, so everyone wanted to be their buddy at first.

    On the other hand, if they'd executed the first wave, the second wave would have come all the better prepared for battle. They might have died sooner instead of later.
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  18. #17  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post

    Well, the European immigrants weren't exactly pleasant to the natives of North America. This is probably why people today seem almost instinctively suspicious of strangers who are noticeably different than themselves. If the North American natives had had the good the good sense to kill the first foreigner that landed on their soil, they may still be around today.
    I think their own greed for conquest got the better of them. Must remember they were not a united group. The new settlers had gun powder weapons, which made them useful allies for one tribe to make war upon another. They could tip the balance, so everyone wanted to be their buddy at first.

    On the other hand, if they'd executed the first wave, the second wave would have come all the better prepared for battle. They might have died sooner instead of later.
    But they could have taken their ships.

    Seriously though, you are probably right, the first settlers in what is now the USA were actually not very hostile towards the natives. If the natives had known what the nature of the majority of Europeans were at the time, they may have been more suspicious of them. Maybe the vikings that came over didn't treat the natives the way they did their fellow Europeans. They may have respected their lifestyles and just traded with them giving the natives a false sense of trust of the white face. Who really knows.

    The few that managed to survive have been interbred with the rest of us an are now part of the mutt breed that we Americans actually are. the concept of race really is kinda silly in my opinion.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    Some people accuse him of caring more about Kenya than the USA.
    You mean Rush Limbaugh and the Tea Party?

    He was born in Hawaii. And to my knowledge, he hasn't done anything for Kenya.
    He was born in Hawai'i and the entire crap about his birth record, is just that. I am not an Obama fan...I didn't vote for EITHER party candidate in the last four elections, however, this BS about his place of birth is just that. It has been authenticated....ENOUGH!
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post

    Well, the European immigrants weren't exactly pleasant to the natives of North America. This is probably why people today seem almost instinctively suspicious of strangers who are noticeably different than themselves. If the North American natives had had the good the good sense to kill the first foreigner that landed on their soil, they may still be around today.
    I think their own greed for conquest got the better of them. Must remember they were not a united group. The new settlers had gun powder weapons, which made them useful allies for one tribe to make war upon another. They could tip the balance, so everyone wanted to be their buddy at first.

    On the other hand, if they'd executed the first wave, the second wave would have come all the better prepared for battle. They might have died sooner instead of later.
    I believe that is true.

    Sometimes people take what is available to improve their live without also weighting and assessing the long term result of the taking.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian.Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican.Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian.Churchill was half American.Discuss.
    Corsica was conquered by the French in 1769. Napoleon was born in 1769, in my books that makes him French.
    Last edited by Dave Wilson; July 24th, 2013 at 05:08 AM. Reason: Spelling
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  22. #21  
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    Corsicans don't think so.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
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  23. #22  
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    Napoleon was born only 3 months after the French conquered Corsica.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Napoleon was born only 3 months after the French conquered Corsica.
    Was he born short?

    JUST KIDDING!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Napoleon was born only 3 months after the French conquered Corsica.
    Was he born short?

    JUST KIDDING!!
    Alas that took me ages for the penny to drop, lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Napoleon was born only 3 months after the French conquered Corsica.
    Was he born short?

    JUST KIDDING!!
    Alas that took me ages for the penny to drop, lol
    Doesn't matter....you heard it hit the ground!
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    India always had porous borders.Many a conqurer came to India the Caucasians(Aryans), the Huns, Scythians, Persians,. Result: You will see Indians of all colours. Add to that the religion and the language of the conqurers. Thus India became home to various religions, languages, cultures, races,etc. Xenophobia is redundant in India. But this also created a problem. There is no single ideology that can gel all the Indians together. Love and respect for the "country" is a modern notion and can therefore be shallow and cannot take deep roots. The problem is that Indians cannot identify themselves with a single idea.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian.
    Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican.
    Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian.
    Churchill was half American.

    Discuss.
    And Alexander the Great was Macedonian and Brunel was American/French.

    I live in London, which is now probably one of the most cosmopolitan cities on the planet. It is astonishing how many of the people I meet have partners of a different nationality - and thus how many children speak more than one language. The EC has a lot to do with this but so too do the general pressures of globalisation. This makes me think that the petty nationalism of the c.20th is probably on its way out in many parts of the world and that this is an irreversible process. I think in many ways it is all to the good and should reduce wars. (I should declare at this point that my own wife is French and our son is bilingual.)

    There is however one snag, which is the risk of loss of cultural heterogeneity in different geographies. The French are acutely aware of this and spend money to subsidise such things as disparate as French cinema and the French agriculture that supports their varied and sophisticated culinary tradition. Other countries too are starting to realise that untrammelled multiculturalism is not an unalloyed good. (I was amused, when we lived in the Netherlands , to find that non EU immigrants have not only to pass a test in Dutch (that useful language!) but also have to sit through a programme on Dutch cultural norms, so bearded muslim fundamentalists are forced to watch training material featuring gay kissing!

    The British don't seem to care, unless we get street riots, probably because English is becoming the dominant language, but in fact we too have things we may lose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    The British don't seem to care, unless we get street riots, probably because English is becoming the dominant language, but in fact we too have things we may lose.
    Yes, I have already noticed a decline in the number of traditional curry houses, to be replaced by a variety of foreign food outlets.
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    Next year, after the referendum, we're going to rebuild the wall, you know. Aye!
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Next year, after the referendum, we're going to rebuild the wall, you know. Aye!
    Regardless of the result?
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  32. #31  
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    Ye can take our whisky, ye can take our oil, but ye cannae take our inability to understan' the ootcome o' a popular plebiscite.
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  33. #32  
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    Perhaps some more publicly-funded construction works could help stimulate the economy...
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Next year, after the referendum, we're going to rebuild the wall, you know. Aye!
    Lol, would that be to keep the Scot's in or the English out
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post

    On the other hand, if they'd executed the first wave, the second wave would have come all the better prepared for battle. They might have died sooner instead of later.
    But they could have taken their ships.
    [/quote]

    And done what with them? The natives didn't know how to sail. Also I'm not clear on this but: weren't the boats just hired to transport them? I would think the captains of the boats would have just left the settlers behind and gone back to England to see if they could get more cargo gigs.


    Seriously though, you are probably right, the first settlers in what is now the USA were actually not very hostile towards the natives. If the natives had known what the nature of the majority of Europeans were at the time, they may have been more suspicious of them. Maybe the vikings that came over didn't treat the natives the way they did their fellow Europeans. They may have respected their lifestyles and just traded with them giving the natives a false sense of trust of the white face. Who really knows.

    The few that managed to survive have been interbred with the rest of us an are now part of the mutt breed that we Americans actually are. the concept of race really is kinda silly in my opinion.
    It's easy to forget the time frames. The natives would need to have been looking decades, or even centuries ahead in order to arrive at those conclusions. Do our modern societies look centuries ahead even now?

    If we did, maybe we'd take a different approach to immigration from Mexico or the third world, where birth rates are much higher than our own. How many generations does it take for a majority to become a minority? And if the overrunning culture doesn't value education, nor show a willingness to assimilate into the dominant culture, then how long will that first world country remain first world?

    The other thing you have to remember with economic refugees, is that generally the people coming over are not representative of the best their culture has to offer. They tend to be the ones who weren't surviving very well at home. That held true for the native Americans getting overrun by the settlers also (the settlers were really economic refugees mostly. Some were political/religious refugees.)
    Last edited by kojax; August 13th, 2013 at 12:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by scoobydoo1 View Post
    Is Superman American?
    He's from India.
    I can confirm that Superman is, indeed, Indian.

    It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Next year, after the referendum, we're going to rebuild the wall, you know. Aye!
    Forgive my stupid question, Mr. John Galt....but are you Scottish?
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Forgive my stupid question, Mr. John Galt....but are you Scottish?
    I am variously British, European, English, or Scottish, as the mood, or circumstance take me. Most of the time I am just plain old homo sapiens sapiens. It really depends on which particular stance would seem the most provocative. But, culturally and emotionally I lean more towards being a Scot. My son, who is a mix of Malay, Indonesian, Scottish, English and Chinese is 100% Scottish. Don't try to tell him otherwise. (I have, at various times, been mistaken for a South African, a Kenyan, an Australian, a Canadian, a New Zealander, a Swiss and a Frenchman. I'm not sure, but it might be something to do with all the false passports I use.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Forgive my stupid question, Mr. John Galt....but are you Scottish?
    I am variously British, European, English, or Scottish, as the mood, or circumstance take me. Most of the time I am just plain old homo sapiens sapiens. It really depends on which particular stance would seem the most provocative. But, culturally and emotionally I lean more towards being a Scot. My son, who is a mix of Malay, Indonesian, Scottish, English and Chinese is 100% Scottish. Don't try to tell him otherwise. (I have, at various times, been mistaken for a South African, a Kenyan, an Australian, a Canadian, a New Zealander, a Swiss and a Frenchman. I'm not sure, but it might be something to do with all the false passports I use.)

    *laughing*....last line was delightful......and why do they think that you are from all those countries?

    Is it speech pattern? Physical stature or appearance?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian.
    Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican.
    Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian.
    Churchill was half American.

    Discuss.

    OK. They all did their dirty-work away from point of origin. jocular
    So what does that say about Obama?

    Some people accuse him of caring more about Kenya than the USA.

    Are people who aren't native to the land they rule less likely to treat the natives with respect?

    Obama of course Indonesia citizen, he live in Lampung (Sumatra island) with step father and move to Jakarta later, her sister (same blood line from his mother) could be seen.

    In Indonesia in that time there no law about dual citizenship, as step father are indonesia military.

    so would indonesia militery in that time allow such kind relation ship and dual citizen ship happen to thier militer member?
    Last edited by daimond; August 16th, 2013 at 10:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by daimond View Post
    Obama of course Indonesia citizen
    Citation required. (In other words: I don't believe it.)
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daimond View Post
    That doesn't say that Obama has Indonesian nationality. It just says he lived there.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by daimond View Post
    That doesn't say that Obama has Indonesian nationality. It just says he lived there.

    well, whatever in Indonesia citizenship maybe he would be diffrent name than "Barrack Husien Obama" in indonesia he been know as "Barry Sutoro"

    The world be use as Indonesia army maybe more soft than the "TNI-AD"/"Indonesia Land Army"

    hmm, quite strange in the past i read about the lampung stories in indonesia news papers but when i looking there the news could not be found again.

    Time would told the truth maybe after he not become usa president



    source

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/claim-abs...esian-citizen/
    Last edited by daimond; August 16th, 2013 at 12:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Let's see....my father's family wound up in Slovenia.......and we traced him back to Scotland .....and you wonder where my red hair comes from?
    Why do persons' hair color (on their heads) seem to rarely be similar to hair elsewhere on them? Am I carelessly treading a dangerous path here? joc
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Let's see....my father's family wound up in Slovenia.......and we traced him back to Scotland .....and you wonder where my red hair comes from?
    Why do persons' hair color (on their heads) seem to rarely be similar to hair elsewhere on them? Am I carelessly treading a dangerous path here? joc
    Trust me.....in the sun.....ya get the highlights!! *cough* *L*
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Let's see....my father's family wound up in Slovenia.......and we traced him back to Scotland .....and you wonder where my red hair comes from?
    Why do persons' hair color (on their heads) seem to rarely be similar to hair elsewhere on them? Am I carelessly treading a dangerous path here? joc
    here is a little more redheaded info

    Redheads feel a different kind of pain | ScienceNordic
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian.
    Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican.
    Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian.
    Churchill was half American.

    Discuss.
    And Alexander the Great was Macedonian and Brunel was American/French.
    Brunel was born in Portsmouth, so he's English regardless of where his parents were born
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  49. #48  
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    Quote Originally Posted by SE15 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian.
    Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican.
    Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian.
    Churchill was half American.

    Discuss.

    And Alexander the Great was Macedonian and Brunel was American/French.
    Brunel was born in Portsmouth, so he's English regardless of where his parents were born
    Well my father was born in Canton and my mother in Madras, but both are completely English and have never held anything but a British passport. And I was born in Edinburgh, but I'm not a Scot.

    I K Brunel also had his higher education in France, at the wishes of his (French) father.

    But the point really is that it is out of date nationalism to try to claim any of these people for one country.
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    This is where conservation of one's culture comes in. That way we can distinguish people from one another or else in the future there will be confusion. It is perfectly natural for person of one country to feel for person residing in another country due to same race or religion or culture. After a thousand years I wonder how the world will look.
    babe likes this.
    believer in ahimsa
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    and Che Guevara was born in Argentina... hmm..
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  52. #51  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
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    Winnie The Pooh is not a pooh.
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Winnie The Pooh is not a pooh.
    Says who that Winnie isn't THE POOH?

    YOU???
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    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Winnie The Pooh is not a pooh.
    Says who that Winnie isn't THE POOH?
    YOU???
    Yes.
    Trust me - I am a doctor.
    *whispers to the audience* I am not really a doctor.

    Rudolph the Red-Nose Reindeer is not a Rudolph!
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
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    Quote Originally Posted by redpanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by babe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by redpanda View Post
    winnie the pooh is not a pooh.
    says who that winnie isn't the pooh?
    You???
    yes.
    Trust me - i am a doctor.
    *whispers to the audience* i am not really a doctor.

    rudolph the red-nose reindeer is not a rudolph!
    pfffffffffffftttt
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  56. #55  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Hitler wasn't German, he was Austrian.
    Napoleon wasn't French, he was Corsican.
    Stalin wasn't Russian, he was Georgian.
    Churchill was half American.

    Discuss.
    my responds is just about Napoleon. The reigning country of Corsica swapped between at Italy and France. At the time Napoleon was born, it was part of France,... if I recall. So Napoleon WAS French. I believe Corsica today is still part of France?
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