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Thread: Defending Stalinism in the US

  1. #1 Defending Stalinism in the US 
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    The message below has been posted at our university forum. The author once accused me of spreading cold war propaganda (referring to my two books).


    Ludwik Kowalski
    Former Communist: Thoughts, Feelings, Reality




    =================================




    " March 7 2013


    To the Editor:


    Istvan Deak’s review “Could Stalin Have Been Stopped?” (NYRB March 13 2013 - http://www.nybooks.com/articles/arch...topped/?page=1) is filled with statements about Soviet history that are factually false. Here is a partial list:


    * There was no “intentional killing by starvation of millions of Ukrainians” by Stalin. Every Western expert rejects the “Holodomor” myth, which originated with pro-Nazi Ukrainian nationalists in the 1950s.


    * Stalin did not “shoot hundreds of thousands of imaginary political enemies in the later 1930s.” NKVD chief Nikolai Ezhov did so, as a part of his conspiracy against the Soviet government. In 1939-40 he and over a hundred of his top NKVD men were tried and executed for these horrific crimes.


    * Stalin did not “attempt” to “eliminate much of the Polish leadership”. It was the Nazis who did so, in their “AB-Aktion.”


    * There exists an important dispute over who shot the Poles in the murders known as the Katyn Massacre and good evidence that the Soviets shot some Polish POWs and the Germans later shot the rest.


    * Stalin was not a “dictator.” He worked collaboratively with other Politburo members and was sometimes defeated. Stephen G. Wheatcroft has termed Stalin’s prewar method of rule “Team Stalin.”


    * There were no “combined Nazi and Soviet invasions.” The Red Army did not “invade Poland” on September 17 1939. Abandoned by its government the Soviets had to prevent the German army from marching up to the existing Soviet border, something no country would have permitted. Winston Churchill said that the Soviets were right to do so.


    * Though armed and equipped by the Soviet Union in 1941-42 the “anti-Nazi army formed by General Władysław Anders” refused to fight the Nazis until 1944.


    * The Polish Home Army”, riddled with anti-Semitism, shot Jews escaping from the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1943 and collaborated with the German army against the Red Army.


    * American and British pilots were not “routinely denied landing rights” when “trying to help the Home Army.” They were denied such rights for a few weeks in August-September 1944 because, like General Władysław Anders, Stalin considered the Warsaw Uprising to be a crime against the Polish people.


    * There is no evidence that the Soviets “massacred thousands of innocent” Poles.


    A Hungarian, Deak fails to mention that Hungary invaded the Soviet Union side by side with Nazi Germany, and Hungarian forces murdered at least hundreds of thousands of innocent Soviet citizens, including many Jews.


    Grover Furr
    Montclair State University "


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    Mr Furr might be a troll or simply an idiot. I don't see him getting much traction or many converts. As contemptable as his opinion might be, he's entitled to it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    As contemptable as his opinion might be, he's entitled to it.
    Reason for clicking "like."
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  5. #4  
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    its true that stalin is my role model your capitalistic leaders poisoned you with lies and told you that they are facts since 1920s so your media always tells it agian and again to make it the truth (gobells theory "IF you repeat a lie enough often it becomes truth")and fed it to you since you were babys to make you foolish sheep who follow a sheperd(the corporates and government) to keep you chained mentally unabling you to revolt against exploitation and tyrrany.your news are sensored so that they contain no info against system and the media doesn't say a word against the corporates and you live in a mental jail where you don't know what actually happening in outside world i am an indian who lives in 3rd world i know whats genocide whats exploitation ,looting ,hunger i know what is hate and you live in a country devoloped by raiding others looting them and your government gave u citizens a dogs share of hunt (actual thing is for corporates and capitalists) do you my mother makes 1000 dollars a month as teacher working 10 hours a day.you dont know how it is like to be afriad when the bombs may fall on us.do you know because of welfare cut brought forward by u imf and world bank affect us and even u .u dont have a right of criticizing stalin he is great leader who made country like india (50 years back) as the great USSR.(BUT tHOUGH I DONT SUPPORT KRUSCHEV AND OTHER SUCCESSORS SOCIALISM IN SOVIET DIED WITH STALIN'S DEATH.
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  6. #5  
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    Any actual evidence for your claims?
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
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    you will know its true if your in outside world read real books and watch media which has freedom and if see true world you will know it .YOU ARE ASKING FOR EVIDENCE WHAT IS EVIDENCE EXACTLY SOME PAPERS NUMBERS AND RANDOM PHOTOS ?AND YOU MAY ADD THAT KRUSCHEV's CLIAMS.BUT AND HE IS A RIVISIONIST BASTARD REMEMBER THAT I SAID SOCIALISM DIED WHEN STALIN DIED IN USSR .AND DO YOU HAVE ANY EVIDANCES TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS BESIDES THE ONES I MENTIONED AND SOME ONE ELSE'S CLAIMS AND MEDIA MUGGED(BRAIN WASHING) INFORMATION.
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  8. #7  
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    You people SELL ARMS TO PAKISTAN AND OUR COUNTRY(WHICH ARE ARCH RIVALS AND WARRED SEVERAL TIMES) AND U BENEFIT FROM IT. if war occurs between us u r sales gets sky rocketed your economy boosts up so u create a war(like in Afghanistan,Iran,now trying in Syria). u(don't misunderstand me that i say u r the one doing it. its your corporate boot licking govt and your war machine and even u r people who fuel it by taxes joining in army and killing innocent.)created Islamic terrorism(to upper hand soviet forces in afghan u created mujahideen supplied them arms and ammunition and money)u r arming them and crying loud that they used those arms on u.u r the one created Saddam and when he protested u replaced him with a war(claiming he has bionic weapons. u know that us had weapons which can destroy world 15 times in 1970s and ur govt funded more scientists inventing new viruses instead of vaccines and chemists new poisons instead of medicines and do you know that there are rumours that HIV is a virus made in american labs(but i don't have any evidence),u exploited our resources through MNC s and world bank and IMF control electricity charges petrol charges in our country and in thee whole world U.N.O. to mute the once who protest by imposing trade restrictions and u kill small infants for fun in war and .I CANT USE WORDS TO DESCRIBE YOUR EVIL SINS

    I SUMMARIZE THAT YOU LIVE AND ENJOY IN A CIVILIZATION WHICH IS BUILT ON THE GRAVES OF OTHERS THERE IS BLOOD DROPS FALLING FROM YOUR ROOFS AND YOUR CLOTHES ARE SOAKED IN BLOOD AND THERE IS BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS "OUR BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS" AND SOME OF THE BLOOD IS EVEN YOUR NEIGHBORS AND CITIZENS. YOUR SYSTEM HAD AND HAS STRIVED ON OUR FLESH AND BLOOD AND SWEAT OF US THE WORKING CLASS THE THIRD WORLD(I INCLUDE AMERICAN BRITISH AND OTHER NATIONS WORKING CLASSES AND MIDDLE CLASS ALSO IN OUR COMRADES LIST)BUT YOUR SYSTEM FAILED MANY TIMES NO EVERY TIME (ECONOMIC CRISIS,UN EMPLOYMENT,POVERTY,CLASSES IN SOCIETY,IN EQUALITY,RACISM,SEXISM,POLUTION ETC ARE MERE EXAMPLES) WE WILL REVOLT AGAINST THIS RUINED CASTLE OF YOURS AND MAKES IT INTO DUST AND FORM CLASSLESS SOCIALISTIC UTOPIA.

    INQILAB JINDABAD SAMRAJYAVAD MURDABAD.(HINDI)

    (LONG LIVE REVOLUTION DOWN WITH IMPERIALISM)
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  9. #8  
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    So you have no evidence for your claims.
    BTW who are "you people"?
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  10. #9  
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    you people means the corporates and their foot licking governments and people supporting them
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  11. #10  
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    Yes i have evidence read "confessions of an economic hit man" to know how you people do it.(written by former world bank official)
    and so many books and other eassays and researchers support and i can say that stalin saved u r butt in ww2
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  12. #11  
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    I have evidence and books historians scientists politicians supporting me and if you wanna know about you people read "confessions of a economic hitman" by(an formar world bank official agent of cia);marxism and races disputes by stalin him self to know his views
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by charvaka View Post
    read "confessions of a economic hitman" by(an formar world bank official agent of cia)
    And how, exactly, does a book written by a crank and a liar support your case?
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  14. #13  
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    If the ones who say the truth are cranks and books are shit then i cant show you any evidence your a brainwashed by media and govt to support the ruined castle so be it one day u will fall we will rise taht day u will agree with me.i pity u.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by charvaka View Post
    If the ones who say the truth are cranks and books are shit then i cant show you any evidence your a brainwashed by media and govt to support the ruined castle so be it one day u will fall we will rise taht day u will agree with me.i pity u.
    It's more like a riddle; Two doors, one guarded by a being that always lies; one guarded by a being that always tells the truth.

    Without accurate information, one cannot reach a reasonable conclusion. Any human being on the planet is quite capable of giving misinformation, lying, being mistaken or reaching biased conclusions.
    So, making an appeal to the authority is irrelevant. There is no reason to believe or disbelieve what he claims.

    Do people in the government lie? Sure. People in the media? Sure, so do they. All individuals can give poor information. That's why it is so important to verify sources, gather accurate information and be skeptical about claims.

    Cranks are notorious liars, whereas others may have better creditability. This does not mean that a crank always lies or a scientist always tells the truth.
    An appeal to authority is always a fallacy.

    The book in question is a conspiracy theorists claims that is known and established as chock full of misinformation. So it has low credibility. It doesn't mean that Perkins is always a liar. It means only that he has low credibility and you need to do a better job or presenting your case. You read a book, took it and accepted it without question and now you're annoyed that others are more skeptical than you are? Hogwash.
    Show the data. Not the claims followed up with whining.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by charvaka View Post
    You people SELL ARMS TO PAKISTAN AND OUR COUNTRY(WHICH ARE ARCH RIVALS AND WARRED SEVERAL TIMES) AND U BENEFIT FROM IT. if war occurs between us u r sales gets sky rocketed your economy boosts up so u create a war(like in Afghanistan,Iran,now trying in Syria). u(don't misunderstand me that i say u r the one doing it. its your corporate boot licking govt and your war machine and even u r people who fuel it by taxes joining in army and killing innocent.)created Islamic terrorism(to upper hand soviet forces in afghan u created mujahideen supplied them arms and ammunition and money)u r arming them and crying loud that they used those arms on u.u r the one created Saddam and when he protested u replaced him with a war(claiming he has bionic weapons. u know that us had weapons which can destroy world 15 times in 1970s and ur govt funded more scientists inventing new viruses instead of vaccines and chemists new poisons instead of medicines and do you know that there are rumours that HIV is a virus made in american labs(but i don't have any evidence),u exploited our resources through MNC s and world bank and IMF control electricity charges petrol charges in our country and in thee whole world U.N.O. to mute the once who protest by imposing trade restrictions and u kill small infants for fun in war and .I CANT USE WORDS TO DESCRIBE YOUR EVIL SINS

    I SUMMARIZE THAT YOU LIVE AND ENJOY IN A CIVILIZATION WHICH IS BUILT ON THE GRAVES OF OTHERS THERE IS BLOOD DROPS FALLING FROM YOUR ROOFS AND YOUR CLOTHES ARE SOAKED IN BLOOD AND THERE IS BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS "OUR BLOOD ON YOUR HANDS" AND SOME OF THE BLOOD IS EVEN YOUR NEIGHBORS AND CITIZENS. YOUR SYSTEM HAD AND HAS STRIVED ON OUR FLESH AND BLOOD AND SWEAT OF US THE WORKING CLASS THE THIRD WORLD(I INCLUDE AMERICAN BRITISH AND OTHER NATIONS WORKING CLASSES AND MIDDLE CLASS ALSO IN OUR COMRADES LIST)BUT YOUR SYSTEM FAILED MANY TIMES NO EVERY TIME (ECONOMIC CRISIS,UN EMPLOYMENT,POVERTY,CLASSES IN SOCIETY,IN EQUALITY,RACISM,SEXISM,POLUTION ETC ARE MERE EXAMPLES) WE WILL REVOLT AGAINST THIS RUINED CASTLE OF YOURS AND MAKES IT INTO DUST AND FORM CLASSLESS SOCIALISTIC UTOPIA.

    INQILAB JINDABAD SAMRAJYAVAD MURDABAD.(HINDI)

    (LONG LIVE REVOLUTION DOWN WITH IMPERIALISM)
    You ought to take some lessons in writing. Short sentences and reasonable paragraphing would make your contributions easier to read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    You ought to take some lessons in writing. Short sentences and reasonable paragraphing would make your contributions easier to read.
    IMO, faulting the presence (or lack) of appropriate grammar principles solves little of the premise being made. After all, we DO understand what is being presented, do we not?

    Rather, I should like to inquire as to WHY: Are so many of our American technology-oriented companies (i.e., Silicon Valley) now headed up by India-born and educated, highly technical individuals, who very likely adhere to little of the ideological thesis presented herein?


    (Sorry, Neverfly!) jocular
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  18. #17  
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    The ability to communicate is essential to communication. Not only is making something difficult to read counter productive to communication, it also leads the reader to have little respect for your intelligence.

    It needs not be perfect. After-all, my grammar is horrendous.

    But reasonable, with a positive effort into giving your best presentation.

    These are intellectual conversations, not texts from Bennett.
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    I say he has lots of credibility because he has done those things him self no one claims he done the sins accepts those who are in need of repentance.IT IS YOU WHO ARE MIS INFORMED BY THOSE PEOPLE NOT ME AND DATA IS ALSO IS A CLAIM BY SOME ONE WHAT DO YOU WANT IS DATA MEANS STATISTICS,PHOTOS,AND CLAIMS OF SOMEONE YOU TRUST ISN'T
    IT CORRECT?
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  20. #19  
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    Yeah i am an indian of 16 years old and poor in english and writing i am here to learn that also.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    You ought to take some lessons in writing. Short sentences and reasonable paragraphing would make your contributions easier to read.
    IMO, faulting the presence (or lack) of appropriate grammar principles solves little of the premise being made. After all, we DO understand what is being presented, do we not?r
    Actually what's being presented is very confusing even on a 2nd read. It appears to be a complete switch in position, evidently meant as sarcasm, that only confuses the argument.

    The broad generalizations and rant make the poster look a bit off the rails as well. Is that what we're supposed to get out of it?
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by charvaka View Post
    you people means the corporates and their foot licking governments and people supporting them
    Not us them. Maybe you should have written "those people".

    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    IMO, faulting the presence (or lack) of appropriate grammar principles solves little of the premise being made. After all, we DO understand what is being presented, do we not?
    Well, I don't. I haven't been able to wade through enough of charvaka's badly formatted posts to work out what his point is. Apart from the fact he is ANGRY.
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  23. #22  
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    sorry for my poor linguistic and writing skills. I can assure u i will work hard on that.i am new to forums and don't know how to present well.and i am not angry just a bit intense.I am a guy who takes every thing to heart.
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    Quote Originally Posted by charvaka View Post
    sorry for my poor linguistic and writing skills. I can assure u i will work hard on that.i am new to forums and don't know how to present well.and i am not angry just a bit intense.I am a guy who takes every thing to heart.
    Lesson 1: Keep sentences short.

    Lesson 2: Keep paragraphs short.
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    Slightly off topic response:
    Quote Originally Posted by charvaka View Post
    sorry for my poor linguistic and writing skills. I can assure u i will work hard on that.i am new to forums and don't know how to present well.and i am not angry just a bit intense.I am a guy who takes every thing to heart.
    I am from the United States. English is my first language.
    And I struggle with poor linguistic and writing skills. I struggle to present well. I am often a bit intense.

    And I've been doing forums for many years.

    The purpose is not to be perfect in writing, it is to present your best. A person that puts their best into their post will not achieve perfection- but they will achieve their best. Since that is not perfect, they will need to keep putting their best forward to account for that imperfection in order to be as clear and easily understood as possible.

    I'll admit, I do not always do my best... Sometimes, I just type whatever... but usually I do try.

    So, you've been asked to try also. Apply netiquette, present your best and when that is not perfect; try some more.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by charvaka View Post
    sorry for my poor linguistic and writing skills. I can assure u i will work hard on that.
    Well, you can start by making the effort to type “you” instead of “u”.
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  27. #26  
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    thanks for advice i will follow it
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    @Charvaka

    I think most of the stuff you said is true, or at least not wrong...but I don't think you play the blame-game right.
    If some government buys weapons and use it...THIS GOVERNMENT and not the seller is morally responsible for the results. So...I do believe in free will. This means...if people from Afghanistan wan't to fight russia...it's their decision...not an idea that have been triggered by CIA agents and nothing that would have been impossible to do without any help from Western warmongers...its a natural reaction if your country is invaded. I don't think they complained about "imperialism" back than. In fact...if there are two parties in one country...at least one is happy about imperialism...at least as long that they don't find out that this money, weapons and support isn't free. But hey...why should it be?
    Don't get me wrong...I'am not saying that Western foreign policy is OK or smart or that it has good results.
    I think it is the fault of American interference that many countries had big difficulties to develop...without interference I personally think that Iran (who is btw not in war right now) would probably be a stable democracy with a moderate government. But this is my personal opinion...I can't prove. It could be worse as well.
    But we shouldn't forget that these countries aint no kids...if for example syrian people want to fight against their government...fine...their decision. But shouldn't the government and/or (based on your preference) the rebels be called guilty of massive bloodshed...10 times more guilty than the ones who supported them with weapons or supported them?
    Of course this isn't the case if it comes to unfair treatment by the IWF or the World-Bank or international trading laws...this is another story.
    So...if we try to brake it down to moral judgement....aren't more blooddrops falling from those hands who actually spread the blood?
    Isn't that the basic thought of many western people that..."Whoever may have weapons is dangerous and only we should have weapons."
    This is the logic that started the iraq war...but..ass you said, if they would have actually USED that logic before..there probably would have been no iraq war. But is this logic good? Isn't that the arrogance that the Western is hated for?
    I mean...not getting involved in conflicts (which I guess is a main ingredient of "downing imperialism) is on the one hand good on the other hand...I don't know...I'am kinda happy that the Americans messed with european business. Otherwise I would probably spend my day in the HJ. (Hitlerjugend).
    The main problem is that, because of the attempt of the western world to call itself very ethically, people tend to use different standards.
    If your opinion is that the western world..is NOT morally superior...than you should judge them like you judge everybody else.
    So...for example...directly compare the Taliban reign with the US reign in Afghanistan. I think the people over there are pissed because the americans promised many things, and kept only a few, and the americans lack of sure instincts...but NOT because the new government is worse than the Taliban Government. A good example for double standards is Gaddafi. He held a marvelous speech in the UN...blaming the US for many things, and most claims are right...but compared to what he did in is own country...every US President looks like fucking Mother Theresa.
    And not to forget...most countries do that (which doens't make it any better of course). Syria had imperial behavior towards Lebanon...and I think no Afgan war-lord can complain about someone being mean.
    I think it is everybody's duty to "fight" for a better government in his country. Maybe I'am mean...but I think western countries been through that fight a bit earlier than others...and have therefor an advantage.
    Some other countries are still stuck in a mind-state that is prior to the french revolution...maybe that is another reason why they are not successful. I don't say that all problems are home-made but in most countries...most are.
    So...yes...western foreign policy is often driven by motives that do not match any (not even the lowest) ethical standards. But I think...Western society have developed some ideas that are worthy to be spread.
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