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Thread: Goring's statement

  1. #1 Goring's statement 
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    (more related to history)

    what Hermann Göring said does not hold true in the educated societies, we have today...
    ...take out religion from society altogether, and the world would be at peace


    The societies we have today are both uneducated, disinformed and entertained into drooling stupor. I would not want to rain on your parade but Herman Goring statement holds as true today as it ever had.

    Most people dont know that several US presidents (Lincoln, Eisenhower)have issued warnings about the subversion of democracy by the banking and military/industrial comlpex in private(written/recorded) and public statements. That newspapers played a role in pushing for the american-spanish war for phoney reasons. That JPMorgan Banking Interests purchased control of at least a dozen newspapers to beguile public opinon while paying off politicans to enact the Federal Reserve Act and promote the intervention of the US into WW1. That the Federal Reserve (americas money) is in fact controled by private interests, which make money(out of nothing by some accounts) each time the country goes further into debt. That the Carnagie Endowment had an agenda back in the early 1900s to promote war just before WW1 and afterwards made plans to condition the us masses by altering the way history is thought in the US, thus creating their own stable of historians and organizing the american historical association. In WW2 some us corporations did not simply profit from the war on the US side, but aslo made money by helping the Nazis, and GM even go as far as demanding reperations for their nazi helping german factories bombed by the allies. That regardless of whether you beleive the coup d'etat theory about JFK or not, even if you ignore all the unclear evidence one undenyable fact remains: some records will remain sealed until 2017 and 2034(or there about).
    All of the above is available in public US goverment records, yet how many americans know about it? (I wont even go into what's been kept 'out' of offical public records)

    At some points in history, banking interets have actually funded both sides in a war (that had nothing to do with religion), their own country of residence and the country against which it was going to war.

    Since the industrial revolution, War is in many cases (typically US/UK) the biggest money making activity there is(but only for those at the very top), it is the theft of their own countrymans money on a massive scale, since then everything else (religion*, threat*, national interest*, bring freedom*) is just icing on the cake so the masses will go along while being riped out of their money, sent to war and have the tab put on their children. (The for-profit war twist is generaly more true for the one that sends his soldiers into the other guys country)

    [*: Religion, is like any other overt excuse to go to war. The leaders select which ever flavor of BullShit is deemed to work best on a given population at a given time]

    In WW1 industry made milions by overpricing materials and banks made billions from the lucrative interest on the national debt, its the same with each war, that why pro-war/military build-up government get funded and newspapers/media milk the fear and the patriotic zeal for all its worth.

    Its not just ancient history. Dick Cheney who virtually ran the Ford white house, placed Bush senior as head of the CIA and more recently practically interviewed W Bush for the job of puppet president before W ran the first time, made several dozen millions with the war in Irak. The war on Irak was on the drawing board well in advance(before 911) for SEVERAL reasons (NONE of which were the decoy reasons publically invoked to justify the war), many US companies such as Halliburton made a truck load of money, and the national debt is skyrocketting.

    So, I do beleive Goring's statement holds true even today.


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  3. #2  
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    At the risk of having to read another one of these, I'll pick one of the only coherent sentences available in your ranting, stringy, loose-leaf history lesson.

    In WW2 some us corporations did not simply profit from the war on the US side, but aslo made money by helping the Nazis, and GM even go as far as demanding reperations for their nazi helping german factories bombed by the allies.
    Many, many companies and institutions had factories and interests in Germany. One of the primary causes of the Great Depression comprised of pulling funds out of the German Banking Institutions. So it's easy to see that the US and Germany were strongly linked in economic terms.
    Henry Ford built numerous factories in Germany to promote his business. Later, these factories were converted to build armored panzer divisions for the Nazi war machine. Is the Ford Company somehow culpable for the actions of the Third Reich? If not, does requesting some kind of government repayment for lost interests incur this culpability, even if you deem it in bad taste?
    In actuality, this scenario was not uncommon. Even companies in other allied countries expected some sort of repayment for US led carpet bombing throughout Europe.


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    Henry Ford built numerous factories in Germany to promote his business. Later, these factories were converted to build armored panzer divisions for the Nazi war machine.

    Is the Ford Company somehow culpable for the actions of the Third Reich?

    I see no parody in your comparison of icedwendigo's well done summarisation of what - yes indeed - many others, already knew.

    Would you indict all American industries that proliferated in Europe prior to the two major World Wars in that theater? The example of General Motors is not the example of Henry Ford - they are not comparable. GM - and several other major American industries - did big business with Nazi Gemany all the way throught W.W. II.

    Would you blame Western Civilization for industrializing the Japanese to the point of their development of enough power to attack China and commence what became W.W. II in the Pacific?
    By the measure of your yawning chatizement of icewendigo, you categorize all of the issued global dynamics here as originating in the same spirit of intrigue, duplicity, and, yes, treason.
    Whereas, GM - for example -was patently fullfilling all those descriptions. Henry Ford and his sons may not have been beyond reproach, but they are not the least bit comparable to the unbroken industrial brokerage of - the exemplary - GM, with the 3rd Reich: all the way through the war...

    In my limited knowledge of world affairs, icewendigo's summarisation of that era is among the most concise and comprehensive I've ever been fortunate enough to read.
    You, appear far too recreationally and/or professionally preoccupied with unredeeming oneupmanship and gotchaism.
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  5. #4  
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    The example of General Motors is not the example of Henry Ford - they are not comparable. GM - and several other major American industries - did big business with Nazi Gemany all the way throught W.W. II.
    Indeed they are comparable, my puffy friend.
    Both have been implicated in congressional hearings, at the same time, for the same reason.
    Both allowed conversions of their industrial plants to make German military vehicles/airplanes. These were not deals with the Nazi party.
    Both had little to no control over their German plants after 1939.
    Both gave up management to German plants and planned exiting most American workers after the war broke out.
    There was pre-war pressure, public and governmental, on both companies NOT to stop German production in their plants as a means to avoid more strains on German-US relations. An attempt to prevent war (mind you, before Pearl Harbor most, about 80%, Americans were against sending our boys overseas.

    Hitler idolized Ford's workmanship and efficiency. Not to mention those insane profits.
    Hitler also modeled his extermination of the Jews after our own same with Native Americans. So, draw your own conclusions.

    Would you blame Western Civilization for industrializing the Japanese to the point of their development of enough power to attack China and commence what became W.W. II in the Pacific?
    Huh? You are aware that trade between the US and Japan was going on for decades, right? Are you unfamiliar with how trade works?
    America industrialized Japan POST-WW2, and acted as protectorate giving Japan little to worry about defense-wise, enabling them to focus on rebuilding a fire-bombed economy with the LATEST technology. Which is precisely the reson Japan is the economic powerhouse they are today, borrowing their significant federal debt.
    Until then, Japans industrial sector was fairly primitive and inefficient.

    icewendigo's summarisation of that era is among the most concise and comprehensive I've ever been fortunate enough to read.
    I'm so sorry.
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    Cogito, ergo doleo.

    There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
    Oscar Levant
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaveatLector
    Hitler also modeled his extermination of the Jews after our own same with Native Americans. So, draw your own conclusions.
    How so? I seem to have missed coming to this conclusion.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    I enjoy additional and divengent views, but in my opinion qualifying a person expressing his views often makes the discussion less interesting.

    The point was that in my opinion, Goring statement holds true in some cases today (the war of Irak and afghanistan being current examples of war in which the motivations were concealed while different overt reasons for the public were selected/crafted).

    Native Americans:
    I agree that like many less publicized genocides, Native Americans were to some extent exterminated and pushed into gettos(reserves with casino and tax free cigarettes), but I was not aware Hitler had specifically modeled the exactions on jews, communists, gypsis, Freemasons, etc on the treatement of Native Americans.

    Japan:
    I agree that reconstruction played a role in Japan's rise after WW2, but I have a feeling there are other factors since Japan had grown in industrial power before WW2. I wonder if South Korea was fire-bomb razed and rebuilt anew or if their economic strength stems from other factors (socio-political environement, foreign investments,etc)?
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  8. #7  
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    I haven't forgotten. I haven't had sufficient time to answer your statements in full. But I do have a few minutes to apologize for attacking right out of the gate. What you said in your first post definitely rubbed me the wrong way. But while I disagree, and find most of the statements false, I certainly would rather persuade you to understand my point, rather than coerce.


    I was not aware Hitler had specifically modeled the exactions on jews, communists, gypsis, Freemasons, etc on the treatement of Native Americans.
    Not specifically modeled, I didn't say specifically. Perhaps modeled is the wrong term to begin with, I will explain in much further detail tomorrow, if I can manage a good half hour break between jobs. That should be enough time.
    The French during Dechristianisation were also an inspiration (better word, but still not accurate enough) to Hitler in this manner. . .
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    Cogito, ergo doleo.

    There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
    Oscar Levant
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  9. #8  
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    agree that like many less publicized genocides, Native Americans were to some extent exterminated and pushed into gettos(reserves with casino and tax free cigarettes), but I was not aware Hitler had specifically modeled the exactions on jews, communists, gypsis, Freemasons, etc on the treatement of Native Americans.
    Pre-WW2, Hitler held the US in high esteem. He was very envious of our production capabilities, power, and motives. Thinking that Americans were part of the Aryan world (later suggesting that we had "lost [our] way") and a supreme race. In fact, a large portrait of Henry Ford hung on the wall next to his desk, he remarked about it in an interview around 1929 or so.
    While he did not specifically base his treatment of the Jews, communists etc... on our actions concerning Native Americans, we was not only inspired by and admired it, he ended up using a few of the same tactics (using camps, finding technology useful for mass extinction etc. . ). It should be noted, however, that genocide was nothing new and Hitler could have been drawing conclusions from other sources of violence, like. . .

    Dechristianisation during the French Revolution. The September Massacres, the outright frenzy of death the ensued in the late 18th century, and the methods used to erase an entire population of people were also inspirations to Hitler.
    Even the word "Sunday" was removed, and the colander changed, from all of France...something so definitive and absolute as a complete extermination of a group of people is precisely what that awkward, angry lunatic was searching for.


    Japan:
    I agree that reconstruction played a role in Japan's rise after WW2, but I have a feeling there are other factors since Japan had grown in industrial power before WW2.
    Not really. Of course Japan had industrial power Pre-WW2, we traded with them, they traded with others, they had planes and ships and industries...but almost no natural resources.
    During the last few months of the war, Japan was firebombed constantly. Tokyo was about 60% destroyed, burned to the ground (wooden city) and it was nearly the same result for EVERY major industrial city and sector in the country. Hundreds of thousands of civilians died.

    I should mention, although it's off topic, sort of, that this certainly made the dropping of the Atomic bomb much more palatable. What do another couple hundred thousand folks matter when you've already finished wiping out ten times that many in the previous months. Dark and horrifying, but true.
    I wonder if South Korea was fire-bomb razed and rebuilt anew or if their economic strength stems from other factors (socio-political environment, foreign investments, etc)?
    This makes no sense. Was South Korea bombed in a fashion comparable to Japan? No.
    Were we even fighting South Korea?
    No.
    Did the US lead firebombing missions on South Korean industrial sectors?
    No.
    Does South Korea gain much of its power and security from the protection provided by the United States?
    Yep.


    It is very well known that Japan's power stems from our involvement in its economy. If you aren't aware of this, I suggest you do a few searches on the subject.
    Post WW2, they had virtually NO industry, resources, money, or credibility. The US stepped in and rebuilt the country's productive power.

    From Rise to Globalism, American foreign policy since 1938:
    With regard to Japan, which paid practically nothing for its defense, but rather relied COMPLETELY on American arms, the situation was maddening. The Japanese were free to put their scientists and technicians to work on consumer goods and to use their funds for research and investment, thus gaining a clear advantage over the United States in the competition for world markets, while the United States had to put its scientists and technicians and TAX DOLLARS, to work on military programs partly for Japan's defense.


    So, icewendigo, we can see that Japan did literally nothing to provide for its own defense. Without spending money on military programs, they were able to quick-start the economy. Additionally, it happened that America shared with Japan the latest industrial technology, and gave them the resources to build it.
    What this means is that, unlike the US which had to slowly incorporate new technology as old becomes obsolete, Japan basically had it's old torn down, and a new built in a relatively short period of time.

    Without US aid and military involvement, it would not be far reaching to say that Japan would have faded away quicker than an old soldier, if you get the pun.
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    Cogito, ergo doleo.

    There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
    Oscar Levant
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  10. #9  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard icewendigo's Avatar
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    CaveatLector your post is filled with information I did not know about, :-D
    which is precisely why I visit the forum :wink: in the first place.
    A lot of it sounds plausible too, I'll have to look into it and do a bit of research.

    thanks :wink:
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