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Thread: Stalin: Defender of the homeland, or coward of WWII?

  1. #1 Stalin: Defender of the homeland, or coward of WWII? 
    Forum Freshman DesertFoxx's Avatar
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    Oh yes, his troops took back stalingrad (named after him, of course) but it has been proven that the only thing Stalin did to help the taking of Stalingrad was issue the "don't turn backwards" order. He charged Berlin... was it worth it? so... Stalin: Coward, or hero?


    You may think you're the best at everything, Mr. Anderson, but I am. I am you're opposite, you're better half. You've been a bad boy, Mr. Anderson.........
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    Forum Sophomore NimaRahnemoon's Avatar
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    Well, then again, what does our leader do? What can a leader do? It really speaks to Stalin's selfish mindset. Losing WWII would have put Stalin out of power and he would do anything to stay in power. Was it worth it? Maybe to Stalin, but definitely not to the rest of the world. 21 million Russians died.


    Last edited by NimaRahnemoon; August 8th, 2013 at 12:38 AM.
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  4. #3 Re: Stalin: Defender of the homeland, or coward of WWII? 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertFoxx
    Oh yes, his troops took back stalingrad (named after him, of course) but it has been proven that the only thing Stalin did to help the taking of Stalingrad was issue the "don't turn backwards" order. He charged Berlin... was it worth it? so... Stalin: Coward, or hero?
    A good strategist maybe. This is war for crying out loud. Its sort of like the Americans dropping the bomb on Japan, kill a few to prevent the killing of the many. Throw enough cannon fodder in there to buy yourself enough time to build an eventual counter-attacking armed force of quality. Decisions like this have to be made. Its a great solution when its happening but once peace is the norm, hindsight will turn public opinion against it. Some of the public against it might not even be here to voice their displeasure had not tough wartime decisions been made.

    Its so easy to crap on the leaders after the fact. Most soldiers and certainly a good majority of the public never grasp the big picture. A soldier worries about his buddy, a sargent about his platoon, and so on, but the highest rank has the whole country to worry about and yes of course it includes his own hide. Calling Stalin a coward or hero won't change anything. We associate war with death but there is an element of life connected to it. Kill a few to save the many or save the country is not a heroic or cowardly decision but in times of war you have to be practical. It seems callous to play with human lives as if they were numbers but to win a war this is what a leader is faced with.
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  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman DesertFoxx's Avatar
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    still.... russians killed more of themselves than the germans... bcause of stalin. That Berlin Charge cost more lives than it saved
    You may think you're the best at everything, Mr. Anderson, but I am. I am you're opposite, you're better half. You've been a bad boy, Mr. Anderson.........
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  6. #5  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertFoxx
    still.... russians killed more of themselves than the germans... bcause of stalin. That Berlin Charge cost more lives than it saved
    No. Primarily, the Germans killed the Russians.

    Did you expect the Russians to be satisfied with just leaving the enemy alone? Do you honestly believe the Germans would have said 'that's enough, we quit, now leave us alone', and expect the Russians to say 'OK, that's fine with us". Again, this is war, it isn't nice.

    If the Russians decided not to go to Berlin then what cost would that decision amount to in Allied losses. With no enemy on the Eastern front then the Germans could have concentrated their efforts westward. Who knows, maybe they defeat the AEF, lick their wounds, regroup, rearm and attack Russia once again. As I said, its easy to make decisions with hindsight, try putting yourself in a leader's shoes when everything is going down. Every military decision results in lives lost and in a strange way actually saves lives. By killing the enemy they can no longer kill you, George Patton philosophy.

    Was Stalin a nice guy? Hardly. Was Churchill, Roosevelt, Truman?
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  7. #6  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    I really think you have to distinguish between a homicidal, psychotic, sadistic murderer like Unlce Joe, and hard headed politicians such as Churchill, et al.
    In the period in which Stalin was in power do you understand how many Russians died as a direct result of his policies? Do you understand how much larger this number is than the number who perished at the hands of the Germans?
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  8. #7  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    I really think you have to distinguish between a homicidal, psychotic, sadistic murderer like Unlce Joe, and hard headed politicians such as Churchill, et al.
    In the period in which Stalin was in power do you understand how many Russians died as a direct result of his policies? Do you understand how much larger this number is than the number who perished at the hands of the Germans?
    Yes I do but the original thread was solely on the charge for Berlin, post Stalingrad. I did mention that Stalin was not nice. Just staying on topic.

    The aforementioned Allied triumvirate not exactly boy scouts either. Their decisions also came at a price. I'm not praising Stalin, I'm strictly concerned with him as head of the military. If I inferred he was a nice guy then it was taken out of context.

    Besides, it's tough to have a debate when everybody's agreeing all the time.
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  9. #8  
    Forum Sophomore CaveatLector's Avatar
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    Russia: a third world country, with a first rate military.

    Stalin was a murdering lout.
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    Cogito, ergo doleo.

    There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
    Oscar Levant
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  10. #9  
    Forum Sophomore CaveatLector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    I really think you have to distinguish between a homicidal, psychotic, sadistic murderer like Unlce Joe, and hard headed politicians such as Churchill, et al.
    In the period in which Stalin was in power do you understand how many Russians died as a direct result of his policies? Do you understand how much larger this number is than the number who perished at the hands of the Germans?
    I find Stalin's second death to be rather eye opening to the depth of his depravity--Instituting policies systematically erasing people from records, photographs, even posters; effectively exterminating not only the person, but any recordable memory or reference.
    .
    .
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    Cogito, ergo doleo.

    There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.
    Oscar Levant
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  11. #10 Day of a Victory 
    Forum Freshman Nikomo's Avatar
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    Let’s leave dispute. Today is 9th May, Day of Victory in our country (8th May in Europe because the difference of the time zones of signing of agreement about the unconditional capitulation of Germany).

    Soviet people payed with blood for salvage of World from fascist hell. 27 000 000 persons lain on the fields, perished of famine in blocked Leningrad and in german captivity.

    Gunmakers from Izhevsk mechanical factory also gave their contribution in victory.

    We recollect again and again the fiery boundaries of that war: Pearl Harbour, London, Paris, Stalingrad, Leningrad, Minsk, Kiev, Warsaw, Budapest, Prague, Berlin…

    Today at 61st anniversary of the great Victory let’s bow to great those years!



    I congratulate all participants of this forum with the Day of Victory!
    Mother-Land is calling!
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