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Thread: What's so special about Einstein?

  1. #1 What's so special about Einstein? 
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    The media and society usually makes Einstein seem like some type of super-genius. But when I look at history and his accomplishments I'm not impressed at all.

    Lorentz already had the theory of relativity, way before Einstein, the main difference between Einstein's and Lorentz's was the aether. The theory of relativity was originally called the "Lorentz-Einstein" theory. But Lorentz is not really given much credit at all, he's basically seen as a nobody compared to Einstein and usually never listed in the top ten greatest scientists (despite his contributions).

    Einstein did not understand mathematics at all, his wife had to help him much but is not given any credit at all in history. Einstein's wife understood mathematics much better than Einstein himself.

    Newton was a much greater genius but is not viewed as such in the media and society.

    So why is Einstein viewed as such a great scientist and great genius despite the fact that he didn't understand math and the foundation for relativity was already set out by Lorentz?


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    modernism!


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    How can you be sure that Einstein did not understand maths. You can not claim that just like that. Do you have any visible proofs? So, You're saying that Einstein in all the lectures he gave spoke about something he did not actualy understand himself? Well, no offense, but it doesn't seem likely.
    I mean, it is said that Bell did not invent the telephone, it was Antonio Meuchi, and I can believe that. Bell could have just taken the patent and the plans from this guy. But to believe that Einstein actually gave speeches about something he did not understand quite well.... Yes, his wife, Mileva, did help him a lot, but that doesn't mean he did not know maths. Piere and Maria Currie also worked together didn't they?
    Now, about Lorentz-Einstein theory, if Lorentz wasn't given much credit, it's because Lorentz didn't know how to get that credit. Simple as that. But that doesn't prove that Einstein has less credit for that theory than Lorentz....

    P.S. Quite frankly, I don't care, I just wanted to point out the obvious....
    "Be the change you want to see in the world"
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    VitalOne; I'm not particularly a fan of Einstein, but as a THEORETICAL Scientist/Physicist, he added to direction of where science wanted to head. Maybe it was pure imagination and/or guesses, but in general, much of his theory, were alterations of previous ideas. Relativity itself was not instantly accepted, but as others trying to disprove/prove, this or other ideas began accepting, most importantly proving to some degree his ideas, it gave credence to his work and the then unknown work of others. This in many ways goes on, even today, Theory of Everything (TOE).
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    It's kind of funny that you mention this, I remember a lot of Einstein quotes and this is one of his: "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
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    Einstein's 1905 papers stand as one of the important accomplishments of physics.

    He got a Nobel prize for describing the photoelectric effect. In describing the effect he showed that Plank's quantum theory was for real, not just a mathematical trick. A later paper laid the groundwork for the laser.

    Other major contributions were the explanation for Brownian motion, which, among other things, demonstrated that molecules were real and not just an artifact.

    In additional to the 1905 and following papers, General Relativity (1917) was something that no one else at the time had any thought of.
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    Einstein did a lot for science behind the scenes. Somewhere around half the time, whenever I read about a discovery from his era, it was a scientist somewhere who wrote to Einstein, and then he saw merit in it, and either helped them develop it further, or at least submitted it on their behalf to an appropriate publication.

    He made a lot of other peoples' careers, and I think that's part of why he's so fondly remembered. He was in the middle of everything whenever groups of scientists would gather together to collaborate on things, and usually the guy least interested in taking credit. It was enough for him that he'd already had two very big ideas. He was like the one guy you knew wouldn't take any of your spotlight from you, which made him the perfect person to mediate between all the other scientists, and kind of keep the peace so collaboration could continue.

    Not that he didn't have some serious debates over stuff. Him and Niels Bohr really went at it sometimes over QM. Seriously, though: I think the social role he played, in bringing all the others together, far overshadows his own individual accomplishments.
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    Einstein painted a whole new picture of how we visualize space and time today.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JennLonhon
    How can you be sure that Einstein did not understand maths. You can not claim that just like that. Do you have any visible proofs? So, You're saying that Einstein in all the lectures he gave spoke about something he did not actualy understand himself? Well, no offense, but it doesn't seem likely.
    I mean, it is said that Bell did not invent the telephone, it was Antonio Meuchi, and I can believe that. Bell could have just taken the patent and the plans from this guy. But to believe that Einstein actually gave speeches about something he did not understand quite well.... Yes, his wife, Mileva, did help him a lot, but that doesn't mean he did not know maths. Piere and Maria Currie also worked together didn't they?
    Now, about Lorentz-Einstein theory, if Lorentz wasn't given much credit, it's because Lorentz didn't know how to get that credit. Simple as that. But that doesn't prove that Einstein has less credit for that theory than Lorentz....

    P.S. Quite frankly, I don't care, I just wanted to point out the obvious....
    It is well known that Einstein did not really understand mathematics very well, he did understand the basics well like Calculus, algebra, etc.., but he wasn't a genius mathematician

    That's why he said:

    "Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater" - Einstein

    That's why the mathematician Hilbert said:
    "Every boy in the streets of Gottingen understands more about four-dimensional geometry than Einstein. Yet, in spite of that, Einstein did the work and not the mathematicians" - Hilbert
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  11. #10  
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    I too was quite suprized to see Einstein was oversold to some extent and many other contributors were eclypsed

    There may be several factors to explain this, one of which might be the Hero narrative, 'in a world where .... "one man"...', forget the fact that hundreds of scientists, engineers, technicians, managers, workers all made it possible "Neil Armstrong" walked on the moon. The Hero Cult culture paints a perspective that does not reflect reality imo.
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  12. #11 BOOK: The Manufacture and Sale of Saint Einstein 
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    There is a free 1200+ page biography of Einstein available on the net. It is very well documented and not at all flattering. This biography reads like a way overdue expose'. Within this book, you will find:

    1) Einstein was a plagiarist (which he openly admitted throughout his life).

    2) Einstein was promoted because of his political views, not his science. Einstein was a Jewish Zionist and promoter of Israel.

    3) Einstein was awarded the Nobel Prize despite the fact that he was ineligible. Nobel clearly spelled out that his Prize was only for pragmatic discoveries which can be experimentally demonstrated. It is not possible to receive a Nobel Prize for anything theoretical. Einstein was awarded the Prize for theoretical work that had nothing to do with relativity. Further, Einstein did not invent the theory of relativity, he only plagiarised work that had been published before. However, a requirement of the Nobel Prize is that the recipient give a talk on the subject of the Prize awarded. Einstein gave his Nobel Prize speech on relativity, as if he had won the prize for theoretical work on relativity... which he clearly did not.

    4) Although Einstein was known to be frugal, he gave all of the Nobel Prize money to his then ex-wife. It is believed that his ex-wife was sole creator of the mathematics supporting his Nobel Prize. Einstein went to great trouble make sure the money transfer to his ex-wife was kept secret.

    Here is the link to the PDF book. Enjoy!

    I cannot get the link to work. You should still be able to find it. The book is by Christopher Jon Bjerknes, title is The Manufacture and Sale of Saint Einstein
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    Don't think that the Lorentz transformations are the totality of relativity, and yes they are called the lorentz transformations to give him credit for them. These transformations are the result of relativity, not the other way around.
    The 1905 special theory, based solely on thought experiments, estabilished the variability of space and time depending on frames of reference with c, the speed of light, as the only universal invariant.
    The general theory expanded on this by considering accelerated frames of reference, not static or uniformly moving, and tied together gravitational mass and inertial mass with their effects on space/time.
    And I believe it was Grossmann (spelling ??) who helped Einstein with the higher dimensional math to handle the space/time metrics of the general theory.
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  14. #13 Nobel Prize Worthy? 
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    I fail to see your point. Einstein was a theoretical scientist ergo he did not qualify for the prize (even if he was responsible for his own work). Evidence suggests he was not behind the math proofs for what he was credited for. Therefore, exactly where should we give Einstein his deserved credit? Einstein was promoted for Zionist Jew propaganda to prove to the world that Jews are brilliant. In fact, Einstein was closer to goofy than he was brilliant.
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  15. #14 Re: Nobel Prize Worthy? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooned
    Therefore, exactly where should we give Einstein his deserved credit? Einstein was promoted for Zionist Jew propaganda to prove to the world that Jews are brilliant. In fact, Einstein was closer to goofy than he was brilliant.
    What insight!
    I have a particularly high regard for the term "closer to goofy".
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  16. #15 Re: Nobel Prize Worthy? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooned
    I fail to see your point. Einstein was a theoretical scientist ergo he did not qualify for the prize (even if he was responsible for his own work). Evidence suggests he was not behind the math proofs for what he was credited for. Therefore, exactly where should we give Einstein his deserved credit? Einstein was promoted for Zionist Jew propaganda to prove to the world that Jews are brilliant. In fact, Einstein was closer to goofy than he was brilliant.
    Is that an agenda sticking out of your crotch, or are you just pleased to see me?
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    I cannot get the link to work. You should still be able to find it. The book is by Christopher Jon Bjerknes, title is The Manufacture and Sale of Saint Einstein.
    Mooned; Apparently this forum has had problems with new members (by the way welcome to the forum) and in your case ones that brings up old threads. Here is one link to the book and yes there are quite a few. You can research somewhat on this one and best for your purpose.

    http://www.jewishracism.com/SaintEinstein.htm


    As said months ago this thread, I'm no special fan of Einstein and his ingenuity may be questionable, but what's not questionable is getting attention paid to many previous ideas and several of his own by the Science Community. There are just too many of today's science principles that are based on what he promoted, not to give credit. His lack of math skills, probably comes from his early years, where his interest were already well above simple math while in school. To compare this a person may have total understand of 'something' but never becomes concerned to how that something developed. On his religion, yes he did die Jewish, but understood the Catholic Religion having studied under and practiced Physics with many from that faith, some trying to convert him over many years.


    Ophie; Can I assume you have had experiences with this poster?
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  18. #17  
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    He died with no religion most of us would recognize. Old Deism perhaps fitting the closest, because he absolutely and without reservation made it clear that he held no belief in a personal god.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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    What he is quoted to have said and how he lived, will be discussed as long as there are intersted people. I'm not going to go through all the books written on Einstein, but one I recall was an interesting story of Catholic Priest (His friend and fellow scientist) that tried to convert him, in his later years. Paraphrasing, he simply said that would not his Jewish Clergy very happy and declined. In my mind he lived Jewish and died Jewish and for the record I AM NOT Jewish.

    In fairness Cremation would be against their traditional doctrine and Einstein WAS cremated. There are different Sects and/or movements including Orthodox, Reform (may be different), but in 1955, after the Holocaust was known, being cremated does not show much support, but then he had lived in the US for some time and wanted to leave no monuments (including a burial sight) left behind.

    For those that may not understand "zionism" (zionist), it's one that supports a Jewish State in Palistine...which may be 'Mooned's problem....

    Some links, I came across looking for that book and I looked up the Jewish law for you, last link.


    Asking if Albert Einstein was a Zionist is about like asking if St. Francis Xavier was a Catholic. It is a silly question, that would not be necessary were it not for the absurd disinformation propagated by anti-Zionist enemies of truth.
    Albert Einstein once remarked, "If relativity is proved right, the Germans will call me a German, the Swiss will call me a Swiss citizen, and the French will call me a great scientist. If relativity is proved wrong the French will call me a Swiss, the Swiss will call me a German, and the Germans will call me a Jew."
    http://www.zionism-israel.com/ezine/...nd_Zionism.htm

    Though Einstein left the world without a physical monument to his existence, it can be said that he gave literally his all to the Jewish people. In life, he liberally lent his prestige and name and, as in the case of the UJA and the Princeton students, his presence.....

    For the rest of the Jewish people, he left a less tangible but equally valuable legacy: a clearly marked ethical trail for those courageous enough to follow it. With relativity, Einstein paved new roads for scientists. With his own life, he pioneered new ways to live as a Jew.
    One such legacy;

    Albert Einstein Jewish Hospital (HIAE) has close to 5000 registered physicians responsible for appointments, exams, hospitalizations, surgeries, etc. 500 of these are employed by the hospital. These physicians are specialists and most are graduates from Brazil or other countries. HIAE claims that its staff follows all quality norms, protocols, routines etc., the details of the staff are not mentioned for public though.
    http://www.medtravelguide.com/countr...ewish-hospital

    [Albert] Einstein's theism, such as it was, was his faith that God does not play dice with the universe -- that there are elegant, eventually discoverable laws, not randomness, at work. Saying "I'm not an atheist," he explained:

    "We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many different languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is."

    My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds.

    That deep emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God...
    http://www.adherents.com/people/pe/Albert_Einstein.html

    Jewish on Cremation;

    Jewish law ("Halachah") is unequivocal that the dead must be buried in the earth.1
    http://www.chabad.org/library/articl...-cremation.htm
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by JennLonhon
    I mean, it is said that Bell did not invent the telephone, it was Antonio Meuchi, and I can believe that. Bell could have just taken the patent and the plans from this guy.
    Unlikely, Meuchi's caveat at the patent office describes a wire mechanical transmission device. Basically like a string phone but with wire. Bell invented the electromagnetic telephone, and all his research is well documented. Bell also had a history in academia and in engineering, and was an expert in auditory science because of his interest in working with the deaf.

    As to Einstein, I don't doubt he participated in Jewish cultural traditions and cared about Jewish charities. I'm an atheist, but I still go to celebrate Christmas with my family. Einstein's writings and speech on the subject suggest some sort of agnosticism.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy

    As to Einstein, I don't doubt he participated in Jewish cultural traditions and cared about Jewish charities. I'm an atheist, but I still go to celebrate Christmas with my family.
    Exactly. My own example would be my regular attendance to midnight mass out of respect for my family's beliefs--especially of our elderly relatives even though I consider it utter superstitious nonsense at it's very roots.

    Einstein's writings and speech on the subject suggest some sort of agnosticism.
    It was bolder than suggestive.

    " It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

    - Albert Einstein, letter to an atheist (1954),
    --

    I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."

    He definitely wasn't Jewish.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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  22. #21 Grammar? 
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    jackson33; I looked at this sentence trying to figure out.

    " ... but what's not questionable is getting attention paid to many previous ideas and several of his own by the Science Community".

    It's not questionable = getting attention paid to many previous ideas
    AND
    It's not questionable = several of his (Einstein's) own ideas

    I have no clue how to respond to that. Do you ever try to read anything you have written? You even go to the trouble to highlight this little nugget, so I guess it's supposed to be important?

    So getting paid attention to many previous ideas is not questionable? Are you sure? Maybe the act of getting paid attention to previous ideas is questionable. What if I had a previous idea to pull my pants down and masturbate in the middle of Time Square. If the idea came up again, I acted on it and then somebody paid attention (to me masturbating in Time Square) then you are saying it would not be questioned? I think someone might, in fact, question me. Don't you?

    Several of Einstein's own ideas are not questionable? I'm sure that would be true of anyone. So, what's your point? Even the village idiot has several ideas which are simply not questionable... like "should I bat that fly off my nose or should I just let it sit there, rubbing its paws together?"
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  23. #22  
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    Einstein was a plagiarist (which he openly admitted throughout his life).
    Mooned; Many of those ideas were strongly/moderately altered or enhanced with then more advanced knowledge and reintroduced to the Science Community. Where most were out there for anybody to evaluate (some for centuries) those revised and/or added to additional ideas were explored by more than what otherwise would have been.

    If you are VitalOne (guess Ophie's thought) Einstein worked with the fundamentals laid out by Lorentz, who by the way probably formulated those fundamentals from someone else's work (they were friends. so to speak) furthering both of them. Who got or gets credit thought time is not the issue but where those results lead and acknowledged further down the road.

    Speaking of reading my own post, think you mixed up two posters, the other of which I was trying to soften the language.


    Several of Einstein's own ideas are not questionable? I'm sure that would be true of anyone. So, what's your point? Even the village idiot has several ideas which are simply not questionable... like "should I bat that fly off my nose or should I just let it sit there, rubbing its paws together?"
    I'm probably going to be accused of bating you, but we're talking scientific ideas, not whether Charlie's or Fred's is the best bar in town. I've seen, what to me are some very good ideas on these science forums, generally by younger folks that will probably end up driving trucks for a living.
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    I am totally new to this forum. I have never posted under any other name.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    Ophie; Can I assume you have had experiences with this poster?
    None that I am aware of, but seriously Jackson, he's attacking one of the pantheon of the greats without so much as by your leave and with a blatant anti-Jewish stance. If that isn't an agenda, then tell me what is.

    If he had approached this in a more circumspect, diplomatic manner, noting Einstein's revered place in science, yet wondering whether this was not overly recognised, then he would have attracted a more considered response. As it is he launched into an evangelical preaching session, affording no room for discussion, all delivered with a barely concealed vitriol.

    Mooned, you may deduce from this that I don't like you. You would be wrong. I don't like the emotionally charged, jingoistic rant you have unloaded on the forum. I have nothing against you personally. I am sure you help old ladies to cross the street - it's just that sometimes they may not want to go.
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    None that I am aware of, but seriously Jackson, he's attacking one of the pantheon of the greats without so much as by your leave and with a blatant anti-Jewish stance. If that isn't an agenda, then tell me what is.
    Ophie; Oh!, I assure you the agenda was noted with another poster reinforcing this notion, Einstein's religion (or lack of) was a factor worthy of judging the mans contributions to science.

    From my next post;

    For those that may not understand "Zionism" (Zionist), it's one that supports a Jewish State in Palestine...which may be 'Mooned's problem....

    Some links, I came across looking for that book and I looked up the Jewish law for you, last link.
    Einstein himself, pretty well foretold his future legacy, linking religious belief and those of science and it will be no less true, hundreds of years from now.

    "If relativity is proved right, the Germans will call me a German, the Swiss will call me a Swiss citizen, and the French will call me a great scientist. If relativity is proved wrong the French will call me a Swiss, the Swiss will call me a German, and the Germans will call me a Jew."

    http://www.zionism-israel.com/ezine/...nd_Zionism.htm

    I am totally new to this forum. I have never posted under any other name.
    Mooned; I did do a little research on your user name, finding some small contributions on a "Astronomy Forum" and not much else. I do know many people, in searching (google) a topic of interest, will click on to some forum site, then register and voice an opinion, which is likely how you got here. The problem with most, as far as management is concerned is that forum decorum (acceptable methods for discussion) is very different from site to site, often discouraging most, would be posters.

    Briefly, off topic here and feeling you will never see this; On your thread offering JFK, you did not realize that JFK's body was shipped (on a plane) to Bethesda, with in 3-4 hours of his death (no time for autopsy). If there was a second Autopsy, it would have to have been done in the Washington area (not likely), but would have explained every questionable comment. Yes, you mortician was correct, rigor can be easily handled by stretching the muscle involved, which would have been minimal in 3 hours. Some how I believe if you had entered that topic under forensics (this forum) you would have received better comments and the thread not trashed.
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  27. #26 Re: BOOK: The Manufacture and Sale of Saint Einstein 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooned
    There is a free 1200+ page biography of Einstein available on the net. It is very well documented and not at all flattering. This biography reads like a way overdue expose'. Within this book, you will find:

    1) Einstein was a plagiarist (which he openly admitted throughout his life).

    2) Einstein was promoted because of his political views, not his science. Einstein was a Jewish Zionist and promoter of Israel.

    3) Einstein was awarded the Nobel Prize despite the fact that he was ineligible. Nobel clearly spelled out that his Prize was only for pragmatic discoveries which can be experimentally demonstrated. It is not possible to receive a Nobel Prize for anything theoretical. Einstein was awarded the Prize for theoretical work that had nothing to do with relativity. Further, Einstein did not invent the theory of relativity, he only plagiarised work that had been published before. However, a requirement of the Nobel Prize is that the recipient give a talk on the subject of the Prize awarded. Einstein gave his Nobel Prize speech on relativity, as if he had won the prize for theoretical work on relativity... which he clearly did not.

    4) Although Einstein was known to be frugal, he gave all of the Nobel Prize money to his then ex-wife. It is believed that his ex-wife was sole creator of the mathematics supporting his Nobel Prize. Einstein went to great trouble make sure the money transfer to his ex-wife was kept secret.

    Here is the link to the PDF book. Enjoy!

    I cannot get the link to work. You should still be able to find it. The book is by Christopher Jon Bjerknes, title is The Manufacture and Sale of Saint Einstein
    If he wasn't a genius, that might explain a lot of his fame. Often geniuses have a difficult time connecting with the common man. Maybe he just broke things down into something easier to understand when he addressed the public.

    Quote Originally Posted by MigL
    Don't think that the Lorentz transformations are the totality of relativity, and yes they are called the lorentz transformations to give him credit for them. These transformations are the result of relativity, not the other way around.
    The 1905 special theory, based solely on thought experiments, estabilished the variability of space and time depending on frames of reference with c, the speed of light, as the only universal invariant.
    The general theory expanded on this by considering accelerated frames of reference, not static or uniformly moving, and tied together gravitational mass and inertial mass with their effects on space/time.
    And I believe it was Grossmann (spelling ??) who helped Einstein with the higher dimensional math to handle the space/time metrics of the general theory.
    Lorentz refused to call his idea a "theory". He just called it an "aid to calculations". He described contraction quite accurately, but never gave a reason for it. Einstein provided the reason, but added little or nothing to the description.

    Would it have been called "Relativity" without Einstein? Would the idea of time itself slowing down for the observer have been introduced without Einstein?
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