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Thread: Just in time for Attila's 1600th?

  1. #1 Just in time for Attila's 1600th? 
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    Love him or hate him its the 1600th anniversary of his birth. So what
    do you get a man who had everything. Google Earth.

    Now for about a thousand years there has been a carpathian range of
    speculation about his great city that priscus visited in 448 but not a
    trace nor a shred.


    In 1990 on a business trip i noticed this feature
    http://maps.google.com/local?f=q&hl=...2,0.068836&t=k

    http://216.109.132.28/test.jpg
    http://216.109.132.28/test1.jpg
    http://216.109.132.28/t1.jpg
    http://216.109.132.28/t2.jpg
    http://216.109.132.28/t3.jpg
    http://216.109.132.28/t4.jpg
    http://216.109.132.28/t6.jpg


    it is called romer schanze [roman earthworks] on this map
    http://www.dvhh.org/mercydorf/info/i...rf_Zsadany.jpg


    its about 5000 acres. is that grand enough for attila? this feature is
    not listed on the lists of cultural nemory in romania.


    happy birthday A?


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  3. #2  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Interesting. Would you tell us a little more about the legends of the city, and why you think this site may be it?


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  4. #3  
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    with pleasure.

    [classical] reference materials pertaining to size and location

    priscus==========================
    http://www29.homepage.villanova.edu/...as/embassy.htm

    P.fr .9 Having crossed rivers mighty indeed—namely the Tisia, Tibisia, and Dricca—we came to the place where long ago Vidigoia, the bravest of the Goths, perished by the treachery of the Sarmatians. Not far from there we reached the village where king Attila was staying, a village, I say, like a very large city, in which we found wooden walls made with smooth planks, their jointure imitating solidity to such an extent that the union of the boards could scarcely be seen by close scrutiny. You might see there dining rooms extended to a liberal circumference and porticoes laid out in all splendor. The area of the courtyard was bounded by a huge circuit wall so that its very size might show it to be the royal palace. This was the house of Attila, the king who held the whole barbarian world, and he preferred this dwelling to the cities captured by him.


    from DEATH OF BUDA A Hun Legend [note in this bit that the city was a good distance east of the tisza and astonishingly large]
    ===============================================
    http://www.mek.iif.hu/porta/szint/hu...tml/epics1.htm


    As from the distance one approaches a hive of bees,
    he sees a few insects flitting here and there - a
    thickening swarm, a darting dance, and then a buzz
    and zoom.

    The hive booms; in and out the door a thousand
    shining bees are crawling back on back. So teem
    the swarms of busy men as Attila's town looms up
    ahead.

    Buda's camp, I think, is nothing compared to these
    crowds that come and go and these palaces of Attila
    that stretch for miles into the fields, towering
    into the heavens.

    This is a great range where unbroken stallions run;
    a vast field betwixt where warriors train; palace on
    corral and palace on corral - it would be hard, indeed,
    indeed, to count them all.

    At the camp's outer edge stood the servants' tents
    with poles of plain fir notched. Farther in, the
    tents were finer, the joints fitted smoothly with
    a plane.

    The palaces of the chieftains are clustered here and
    there - so many proud, so many royal homes. Town
    within town passes into fields, with green stretches
    of distance between.

    Women dwell in their secluded towns and rule over
    their courts. Krimhilda passes swiftly, if she desires,
    over a hanging corridor to her lord Attila's tent.

    All this is work of marvellous craft. The awl argues
    dead trees into blossoms and new leaves, unlike before,
    painted in oil and unfamiliar colors.

    The leaves are blood-red, the blossoms gold; branches
    twist into hissing dragons where green birds perch
    silently, birdlike bells tinkling in their stead.

    In the center on a high hill is Attila's tent, the
    topmost point shaded by the ancient Turul, tremendous
    wings spreading for a flight, and wrought of solid
    gold by its maker.

    The columns flow to the ceiling, coiling like tendrils
    now this way now that, the wood plated with gleaming
    gold, and velvet tapestries swelling between.


    from gibbon [note the bit where he mentions deceit on huns part leading to confusion over the location]
    ========================================
    he was admitted to the royal presence; but, instead of obtaining a decisive answer, he was compelled to undertake a remote journey towards the North, that Attila might enjoy the proud satisfaction of receiving in the same camp the ambassadors of the Eastern and Western empires. His journey was regulated by the guides, who obliged him to halt, to hasten his march, or to deviate from the common road, as it best suited the convenience of the king. The Romans who traversed the plains of Hungary suppose that they passed several navigable rivers, either in canoes or portable boats; but there is reason to suspect that the winding stream of the Theiss, or Tibiscus, might present itself in different places under different names.

    http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume1/chap34.htm




    Bulgarian epic of Djagfar [in this bit, they speak of 2 cities, madja & bilsaga {seems to be a near twin of this feature near sagu} as well as his burial]
    ================================
    http://sophistikatedkids.com/turkic/...rihiV3P5En.htm




    some points not in these references
    at about 5000acres, according to the maidencastle standard, this should have been a city of 500,000

    [seems to be a necropolis http://maps.google.com/local?f=q&hl=...5,0.048409&t=k ]

    the city was called 5waters in one source and cooincidently the damming of the stream by the wall features would have created 5 lakes

    the walls of this city cross over the roman wall/road
    http://maps.google.com/local?f=q&hl=...5,0.024204&t=k


    its not in these official references

    cultural memory romania=====================

    timis county______________________________________
    http://www.cimec.ro/Monumente/ListaM...istaMonIst.htm

    see cornesti_______________________________________
    http://www.cimec.ro/scripts/mapserv....=309&img.y=234

    cultural memory hungary====================
    http://mars.elte.hu/varak/terkep+lista2.php

    you can see the roman walls noted===========
    http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/digkonyv/topo/200e/39-46.jpg

    i'm mystified
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  5. #4  
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    response from RO

    ============================================
    Cornesti (comuna Ortisoara, judetul Timis)

    1. Vestigii preistorice.

    a) Într-o cariera de nisip de la marginea satului s-au descoperit „oase de mamut”. Astfel de fosile s-au descoperit si mai târziu de secolul XIX.

    b) Punctul Jadani-Jugosloveni.

    Statiunea neolitica din acest punct se afla la marginea vestica a localitatii, de o parte si de alta a drumului unde s-au asezat refugiatii veniti din Iugoslavia în perioada interbelica. Situl a fost locuit în vremea culturii Bucovat, Vinca C si Tiszapolgár.

    Tot aici se semnaleaza si materiale ceramice Cotofeni.

    c) Punctul Ferma Reiter.

    Materialele arheologice de aici apartin culturii Vinca, faza C.

    d) Punctul Pusta sau Râtu cu Peri.

    Aici s-a semnalat ceramica apartinând culturii Vatina.

    e) Se mentioneaza descoperirea, în hotarul satului (Jadani), a unui depozit format din opt bratari de aur dintre care sase din placa si doua din sârma rasucita, datat în seria Cincu-Suseni (Br D-Ha A1).

    f) Punctul Valea Lacului.

    La vest de acest punct si de Dealul Cornet s-au descoperit, la aratura, fragmente ceramice.

    g) La Jadani s-a descoperit un depozit de bronzuri din seria Cincu-Suseni (Ha A1).

    2. Situri arheologice cu stratigrafie complexa.

    a) Punctul Dealul Cornet.

    În acest punct se afla o mare asezare fortificata, numita de localnici si Iarc, de foarte mari dimensiuni cu mai multe niveluri de folosire în epoca bronzului si cea a fierului. Fortificatia are mai multe valuri (trei incinte concentrice, dupa unii autori patru) intersectate de valea Pistrui (Pistruia), spre sud, care la est de sat îsi schimba numele în Valea Luciului, Lacului sau Vâna Nerat. Spre nord, fortificatia este marginita de Valea Caraniului. Suprafata III si cea mai mare are 578 ha.

    Între alte materiale arheologice s-a descoperit si o dalta de cupru, dar si materiale ceramice reprezentând epoca de trecere de la cultura Tiszapolgár la Bodrogkeresztúr.

    Materialele arheologice de epoca bronzului de aici se încadreaza în partea timpurie si mijlocie a perioadei.

    Tot aici s-au descoperit materiale ceramice care pot duce datarea fortificatiei pâna la sfârsitul epocii bronzului si, poate, chiar în perioada hallstattiana.

    Dintr-o descoperire întâmplatoare provine un topor de fier care poate fi încadrat în Hallstatt.

    În incinta s-au descoperit si fragmente ceramice dacice.

    Unii cercetatori considera fortificatia un ring avar.

    Ortansa Radu aminteste aici si ceramica medievala târzie.

    3. Vestigii dacice.

    a) În hotarul localitatii sunt amintite fragmente ceramice dacice.

    4. Vestigii daco-romane.

    a) La N de localitate, în imediata apropiere a fortificatiei preistorice (Iarcurilor) se afla o asezare de secolele IV-V d.Chr.

    5. Movile de pamânt.

    a) Pe traseul exterior al fortificatiei de pamânt din punctul Dealul Cornet este semnalata o movila de pamânt, plasata la 1,1 km nord de sat, cu dimensiunile de 15 m diametru si 1,5-2 m înaltime. Este posibil sa fie construita dupa terminarea ridicarii incintei deoarece se afla pe coama acesteia.

    6. Descoperiri monetare.

    a) La sfârsitul secolului XIX s-a descoperit trei denari, dintre care doi imperiali si unul republican.

    b) Cam tot în acelasi timp s-au descoperit doua monede de secolul XVII care pot face parte dintr-un tezaur.

    c) Catre sfârsitul secolului XX s-a descoperit la Cornesti un tezaur monetar format din taleri austrieci de argint.
    =========================================

    i think that pretty much sums it up. sorta missed the 4th wall and 1400hectares. could be an avar ring? would be the grandaddy avar ring. avar capital ring? avar capital ring = attilas capital.
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