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Thread: Doctors just power hungry?

  1. #1 Doctors just power hungry? 
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    If doctors want to save lives then why don't they just become drug researchers.

    Curing major diseases would save milions more lives than any doctor could. So doctors saying they want to save lives are talking rubbish.

    They just want the money and hero worship that comes with being a doctor.


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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    i'll pass my son + daughter your comments - they're studying medicine + i'm sure they could do with a good laugh 8)


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    ah ok they're probably just responding to parental pressure.
    or there money grabbing with god complexes.
    either way you must be a proud parent


    I don't see why it's funny, my point is perfectly valid
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    no parental pressure in this case, it was their own personal choice

    the line that will raise a rather hollow black-humoured laugh is the following :

    They just want the money and hero worship that comes with being a doctor

    money - while it's true that most doctors nowadays are well off, recent changes in the recruiting and training practices in the UK have made it anything but a foregone conclusion that the system will look after you + with current university fees you'll be lucky to come out of your studies with a debt of less than £35,000

    hero worship - you're thinking of a century ago when the 4 types of people of note in the village were the doctor, the vicar, the lawyer and the school teacher; those days are long gone and as a doctor you're now more likely to get sued rather than venerated
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    Unfortunately it all seems about the money as studies show.

    In a recent issue of the British Medical Journal a harsh accusation was leveled at German doctors.

    Health experts and patients feel that German doctors order unnecessary diagnostic tests and unproven treatments to boost their income! Although this probably comes to no surprise to anyone who was spend time with medical personnel, it is considered to be unethical.

    Patients with higher incomes were offered unnecessary procedures more often than poor patients. Many patients felt uneasy with the relationship with their doctor after such experiences.

    source:
    http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/335/7611/114-a

    On a personal note:
    I work a lot with dentists and I asked several if they do unnecessary treatments to boost their income. So far all of them have said yes.

    source:
    http://www.spuriousmonkey.com/forums...opic.php?t=348
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    Quote Originally Posted by spuriousmonkey
    Unfortunately it all seems about the money as studies show.
    any indication on how widespread this state of affairs is ?
    i'm sure that some people have less idealistic motives for studying medicine than others, i'm just not quite sure whether they're the exception or not
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  8. #7  
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    well...

    let me tell you a short story.

    I was on a scientific retreat. All researchers. There was a party in the evening.

    Some guy I don't know came to talk to me. He was drunk and doing the typical arrogant stuff.

    I asked him: "you must be a medical doctor"
    He responded: "How did you know?"

    Some of them might start off with ideals, but they end up in a culture that is very typical, a culture which will influence them.

    And to be honest, I've never met a doctor (or dentist) who became a doctor out of idealistic principles.

    One of the few jobs where you will still find idealistic people is research scientist, although things are rapidly changing.

    That is because you must be fucking stupid to study for a decade or more just to end up in a job that might only last for three years and is paid crap.

    All the medical doctors in research that I asked why they do research on the other hand usually replied with that they were bored with poking patients or drilling teeth. That's not idealistic, that is selfish behaviour. Since many of them just pop right back into the medical profession when things go pearshaped.

    The real researcher has no such option.

    So, forgive me that I have no sympathy for medical doctors whatsoever. I just have seen too many as friends and I know how they are.
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    "hero worship - you're thinking of a century ago when the 4 types of people of note in the village were the doctor, the vicar, the lawyer and the school teacher; those days are long gone and as a doctor you're now more likely to get sued rather than venerated"

    although it may have been a century ago, the hero worship/god complex that comes with being a doctor still exists today, in my opinion.

    However i can accept that some doctors can go into medicine with good intentions even if it isn't the only motive, however no one wants to do a job they don't get paid for.
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    I don't think many doctors do it for the money, i read a comment a few months ago where asomeone said 'as a doctor you will always be comfortable, not rich but comfortable, if you want to be rich go study business' my point is like many other people have said in this topic why would some one study for years and years to just be earning a descent amount when you can study something like economics at uni for four years and be earning much more almost straight after you finish your course.
    I guess the god complex is a good point to look at with people studying medicine but I think, and hope that most of the doctors today are doctors because they want to help people????
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  11. #10  
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    What's wrong with somebody making money? Ya bunch of commies.
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  12. #11 Re: Doctors just power hungry? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    If doctors want to save lives then why don't they just become drug researchers.
    Well first off, you don't cure disease with a pill.

    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    Curing major diseases would save milions more lives than any doctor could. So doctors saying they want to save lives are talking rubbish.
    Secondly, you don't cure disease with a pill.

    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    They just want the money and hero worship that comes with being a doctor.
    My original intention for college was a doctor of some sort. However, I did not lie to people; my goals were strictly selfish. I often thought it would be cool to be this modern day healer but I was in it for my own health.

    Now, a couple years later I've understood the secret to health and thus have discontinued my interest in being a doctor. I don't want to treat people and it is impossible to cure people. Doctors have a role in health but not one that I am interested in.

    That being said I would like to point out that most doctors are highly intelligent and the good ones are very in tune with how the human works. Now I'm not speaking for all doctors but I would think that is the greatest part of being a doctor.

    You are right however, many people just want the money. The funny thing is many people also love to give away money. Like they're paying for someone to listen to them and take away their pain. Just to have it come back again the next year.

    I say: "Embrace the pain, and you will win this game." -Avi (film: Revolver)
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    Yeah lets keep in ind the pharmaceutical companies who want to sell the pills your on about at top price; which option is really more selfish, working in the hospital or for the pharmaceutical company!

    Doctors are really just the final line of scientists. Scientists research the drugs, doctors do the administration of the drugs (to put it crudely!). Also many doctors DO their own research as well as just treating their patients. If all the doctors researched new drugs who would give it to the patients!?

    finally what do motives have to do with anything, even if a doctor is in it for money, they will want to be good at their job to make it to the top of the salary scale, I dont care why my surgeon went to medical school as long as he's competent to cure me.

    If this is just you having a go at people who earn good money I dont see why you pick on doctors, I think you've missed out on what healthcare systems actually do & saving lives in terms of numbers has little to do with indiidual doctors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    What's wrong with somebody making money? Ya bunch of commies.
    What is arguably wrong (and you know this) is to allow system that discourages those best suited to practicing medicine, from practicing.

    It is presumably discouraging to drill teeth every day, or to run the risk of frivolent litigation, or to be held to unrealistic expectations, or to allow your values and ideals to erode because of a fat paycheck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by free radical
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    What's wrong with somebody making money? Ya bunch of commies.
    What is arguably wrong (and you know this) is to allow system that discourages those best suited to practicing medicine, from practicing.

    It is presumably discouraging to drill teeth every day, or to run the risk of frivolent litigation, or to be held to unrealistic expectations, or to allow your values and ideals to erode because of a fat paycheck.
    Huh?
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    The discussion starts with "If doctors want to save lives then why don't they just become drug researchers" and then proceeds to discuss a variety of occurences within the medical profession. Although money enters into it, I don't believe anyone here has said that doctors should not earn (loads of) money; the general sentiment (here) is that the medical profession does not live up to its potential.

    I suggest that part of the reason that this might be the case is because of those aspects of practicing medicine that are simply discouraging or disheartening. This probably applies to almost any field.

    I don't mind being called a commie, of course .
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    So all doctors who want to save lives should become drug researchers. Thus the only doctors we'll have are the ones who don't want to save lives. That sounds ideal... Who's up for surgery?
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    To be honest, i couldn't care less about my doctor's ideologies. I pay him to do a job. His job is to give me the right medication, an accurate diagnosis etc. If you want to be my saviour, by all means. If you just want money, be my guest. I'm more concerned with whether you do your job well.
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    "Well first off, you don't cure disease with a pill. "


    Maybe rather than a pharmeucitical researcher i should have been more precise such as medical researcher or similair

    this could be a crazy statement but medical research does cause diseases.
    Hopefully this will mean the topic is more about ethics now rather than a smart arse making stupid and pointless comments
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  20. #19  
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    Jacketate... You're in critical condition and you need immediate surgery. You've got two surgeons to choose from. One is second-rate, but has a great moral system. The other is first-class, but only cares about money. Who do you choose?
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    If someone becomes a doctor because they want a well paid job, so be it. if they do it to save lives/make a difference, then fair play to them.

    Its a profession that requires some skill, and also a great deal of wit. to get through med school is no small thing.

    as for god ego hero charm? perhaps they do, but that doesn't stop emergency medical staff from saving some mothers son who has drank himself silly, or resuscitating some dads pride and joy daughter after she has had heart failure because she had a little too much cocaine.

    Research is a very rewarding job where you can go to your grave saying (and it being somewhat true) that you have made a difference. THAT doesn't mean that the others are pointless, money grabbing shells of existence because they didn't invent a wonder drug.

    that was a bit of a rant.
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    I agree. And I think we should rather be worrying about suicide bombers who want to be heroes, than doctors who want to be heroes.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie
    I dont care why my surgeon went to medical school as long as he's competent to cure me.
    I would rethink that if I were you. Say the doctor's had a long day. You come in and they knock you out. You come too and everything is good to go. Just to die a day later because the doctor was a little sleepy and messed something up inside.

    Your point would make sense in many professions but in the case of doctors, or especially surgeons, the reason for which the doctor has their job is important. Because when the doctor finishes arguing with your family about how he accidentally let you die he'll then go home (to his mansion) and kick back on the sofa for a nice nap.

    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    this could be a crazy statement but medical research does cause diseases.
    You're right!

    In my opinion we should end the whole thing. No matter what the technology there will always be those who suffer. As Sun Tzu would say, put them on fatal ground and they will survive. We are lazy. We drink to much, do to many drugs, we don't care if we get fat. Because our technology makes us feel secure.

    I remember when pharmaceuticals were just the pill you might take for a headache. Then the brain washing began. It starts off with just one, than two, than three.... hey look at Betty she's 350y/o and still looks young. Right, just keep telling yourself that. We are overpopulated and useless.

    Stop the medical research. Let those who will die, die and those who survive, survive. Think of something like HIV. If left untreated and undiagnosed it would become a big issue very fast. Maybe then the teenagers would think twice about doing it in the high school bathroom when their best friend just died of AIDS.

    Progress doesn't come from the technology, only from individual thought.
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    "Jacketate... You're in critical condition and you need immediate surgery. You've got two surgeons to choose from. One is second-rate, but has a great moral system. The other is first-class, but only cares about money. Who do you choose?"

    thats not really the point i was discussing sorry if you misunderstood me.


    "Stop the medical research"

    I don't agree with this statement. Yes it could scare people into not having unprotected sex and stop the spread of HIV.
    But i don't think people can be scared enough into not getting cancer or other diseases that aren't there fault.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    I don't agree with this statement. Yes it could scare people into not having unprotected sex and stop the spread of HIV.
    But i don't think people can be scared enough into not getting cancer or other diseases that aren't there fault.
    It's all our fault. The best way to improve our health is through gene alteration, AKA having a baby. We die because we are obsolete. Death is inevitable and intentional for the survival of the species.
    Sorry if I'm going off topic.

    I believe that about 90% (I may be exaggerating) of the people in the world are driven by ego (pleasure instincts, acceptance, individuality, etc.). I have no doubt that many doctors fall in this category.

    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    If doctors want to save lives then why don't they just become drug researchers.

    Curing major diseases would save milions more lives than any doctor could. So doctors saying they want to save lives are talking rubbish.

    They just want the money and hero worship that comes with being a doctor.
    I'm not sure doctor's want to save lives. I go to a naturopathic doctor, who is also a family friend, and I can assure you that, while I'm sure he is capable of saving lives, that's not why he's a doctor. In my opinion the greatest thing a doctor can do is listen and give life changing advice. The problem is that most people do not want this advice; or in most cases some simple advice to help a small ailment. They just want the pain to go away.

    I don't think medical research would result in saved lives.
    "On a long enough time line the life expectancy of everyone drops to zero." -Narrator (film: Fight Club)
    I think it only prolongs their suffering.

    However, I already disagree that doctors claim to save lives. Most, I'm sure, are very happy about their salary and, I'm also sure, most entered the profession with that in mind.

    P.S.
    F.Y.I. to the mods...
    "Naturopathic" is not in the system's dictionary.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie
    I dont care why my surgeon went to medical school as long as he's competent to cure me.
    I would rethink that if I were you. Say the doctor's had a long day. You come in and they knock you out. You come too and everything is good to go. Just to die a day later because the doctor was a little sleepy and messed something up inside.

    Your point would make sense in many professions but in the case of doctors, or especially surgeons, the reason for which the doctor has their job is important. Because when the doctor finishes arguing with your family about how he accidentally let you die he'll then go home (to his mansion) and kick back on the sofa for a nice nap.
    ok fine! You know what my point is!

    Jacketate

    I don't agree with this statement. Yes it could scare people into not having unprotected sex and stop the spread of HIV.
    But i don't think people can be scared enough into not getting cancer or other diseases that aren't there fault.
    ok fine, whatever, you're missing the point, scientists do most medical research, doctor's generally (although not entirely) do clinical research involving their patient's as part of their day to day job, don't blame doctors if you think theres insufficient medial research, instead go give out to whatever government/pharmaceutical companies are funding it & tell them you want more! You're missing the issue that most people, even researchers want to be employed to carry out research & theres no shortage of people (even doctors) trying to find such jobs. If anything theres only a shortage of funding.
    Doctor's jobs are mostly with patients.
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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    If doctors want to save lives then why don't they just become drug researchers.

    Curing major diseases would save milions more lives than any doctor could. So doctors saying they want to save lives are talking rubbish.

    They just want the money and hero worship that comes with being a doctor.
    Quote Originally Posted by jacketate
    ah ok they're probably just responding to parental pressure.
    or there money grabbing with god complexes.
    either way you must be a proud parent


    I don't see why it's funny, my point is perfectly valid
    Being a medical student myself, I think I should have a say in this. :P

    You should know that student doctors receive a medical, mostly clinical, formation so they'd be able to recognise and treat diseases, and of course emergencies. How you expect them, with their basic chemical & pharmocologic knowledge to go for advanced drug reseach, is beyond any validity. lol
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  28. #27  
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    75% of the doctors have no clue what they're doing
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  29. #28  
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    Love the arbitrary random statistics!
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie
    Love the arbitrary random statistics!
    Same!

    Something tells me he is bored. :wink:

    hmmm... those sneaky subliminal messages
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