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Thread: An ultimate diet?

  1. #1 An ultimate diet? 
    Forum Freshman Modern_Hero's Avatar
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    Is there, or has there been rumors of an ultimate diet?

    I understand the basics of diets and exercise (i.e, intake - expenditure = net gain and loss).

    But I was wondering if there was a definitive diet that would work for everyone, regardless of body type, metabolism, etc, etc?

    EDIT: Oh, and what is the shortest amount of time you can loose weight? say a stone?


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  3. #2  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    I think the unfortunate truth is no, there is no ultimate diet that will work for everyone. People vary so much in their metabolisms (due to genetics, environment, disease, lifestyle, etc etc), that there is no one formula besides a very general one: Excersize, don't eat tons of fat, get your fruits and vegetables. The september issue of scientific american (i think it was september...) had several articles on weight and weight loss issues.

    Also, losing too much weight too fast can be unhealthy. But I don't know too many details about it other than that.


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  4. #3  
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    The shortest time would depend on one's basic body functions and activity level. Most calories are expended to maintaining your bodies functions (mostly heat regulation). Also, one needs to exclude weight loss due to moisture loss. Just to take the actually fat off the butt then an active average size male adult should be able to lose 2 to 3lbs a week without fasting or impacting blood sugar levels, etc. Anything beyond that is probably water loss due to dehydation, changes in salt levels and so on. I'd guess a female about about 1.5 to 2 lbs.

    A heavyweight boxer can lose 7 lbs over the couse of one fight but it's almost all water. As soon as he eats eats or drinks the body retains the moisture and the weight returns to previous levels.

    No great mystery. A pound of fat is 3500 calories of energy. If you use 2500 cal a day and consume 1500 then you've lost 1000 calories of fat a day. That's 2 pounds of loss a week or 7 weeks to lose a stone. One can start factoring muscle to fat ratio, etc. but it muddles the bigger picture. Variables other than 'calories in' and 'calories out' might be valid but onlyon the margins. Bottom line: in the course of a day eat a carrot instead of a cookie, drink a glass of water instead of soda pop and that might be all the necesary change in consumption. A healthy weight is just a side bonus to a healthy lifestyle.
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    The ultimate diet would, obviously, be what we are evolved to eat. So yes there is one. It's called the paleolithic diet. I was on it for a while to test it out, and I can vouch for its health effect.

    Do a lot of research on the subject. Google is your friend.
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    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    The ultimate diet would, obviously, be what we are evolved to eat. So yes there is one. It's called the paleolithic diet. I was on it for a while to test it out, and I can vouch for its health effect.

    Do a lot of research on the subject. Google is your friend.
    Yes, but we don't live a paleolithic lifestyle anymore. The environment that our appetites evolved in has since changed, so they are not optimal anymore.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    The ultimate diet would, obviously, be what we are evolved to eat. So yes there is one. It's called the paleolithic diet. I was on it for a while to test it out, and I can vouch for its health effect.

    Do a lot of research on the subject. Google is your friend.
    Yes, but we don't live a paleolithic lifestyle anymore. The environment that our appetites evolved in has since changed, so they are not optimal anymore.
    And you, Paralith, aren't getting it. Evolution takes millions of years, civilization has only been around for ten thousand. Furthermore, despite basic cultural differences in ancient hunter-gatherer societies, we did essentially eat the same types of foods.

    What we eat now? Mostly foods that are BAD for us. Potatos, wheat-based foods, a metric fuckton of processed foods, etc.

    Looking at it from just about any standpoint, what we eat isn't what we are meant to it. You can't just say "oh we don't live THAT WAY anymore" and change it. We get EVERYTHING WE NEED from it regardless of culture.
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  8. #7  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    The ultimate diet would, obviously, be what we are evolved to eat. So yes there is one. It's called the paleolithic diet. I was on it for a while to test it out, and I can vouch for its health effect.

    Do a lot of research on the subject. Google is your friend.
    Yes, but we don't live a paleolithic lifestyle anymore. The environment that our appetites evolved in has since changed, so they are not optimal anymore.
    And you, Paralith, aren't getting it. Evolution takes millions of years, civilization has only been around for ten thousand. Furthermore, despite basic cultural differences in ancient hunter-gatherer societies, we did essentially eat the same types of foods.

    What we eat now? Mostly foods that are BAD for us. Potatos, wheat-based foods, a metric fuckton of processed foods, etc.

    Looking at it from just about any standpoint, what we eat isn't what we are meant to it. You can't just say "oh we don't live THAT WAY anymore" and change it. We get EVERYTHING WE NEED from it regardless of culture.
    I wasn't talking about what we eat. I mean our lifestyle. A hunter-gatherer had to expend a lot more energy and time getting their food, and they also had to go through periods of drought and hunger. Now, the poor in less developed countries probably do have a more similar lifestyle, but for the average person in an industrialized country, we don't expend that much energy (much less physical activity on average), and it's pretty reasonable to expect that we're not going to go through several periods with very little food in our lifetimes. Our appetites make us enjoy food that is "bad" for us today - sugary and fatty foods, mostly. Because as hunter gatherers, we needed to stock up for those days when we wouldn't eat, and for all the effort it would take to get food in the first place. But we don't have those energy needs today, so we tend to consume more than we need.

    Secondly, I'm not sure what your point is about civilization only being around for ten thousand years. I would think that kind of supports my position. We've only been out of the hunter gatherer lifestyle for a very short time evolutionarily speaking, and been in an industrialized lifestyle for a virtual blink of the eye. So of course, our appetites haven't had time to adapt to these new ways of life.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    Paralith, well said. We also don't have a life expectancy that lasts only as long as our second set of teeth without care (the mid 30's). Early man wasn't concerned about retirement. . Eat all the blubber and fat you want...and don't worry about wearing down your teeth eating nuts , roots and other natural hard food. Eat this diet and live to the ripe old age of 35 or 40.

    According to Richard Leaky human remains show the leading causes of death of early man were predation by animals, starvation and tooth abscess and its resulting infection.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralith
    Our appetites make us enjoy food that is "bad" for us today - sugary and fatty foods, mostly. Because as hunter gatherers, we needed to stock up for those days when we wouldn't eat, and for all the effort it would take to get food in the first place. But we don't have those energy needs today, so we tend to consume more than we need.
    The beauty of the paleolithic diet is that you aren't consuming those foods. If you think that somehow hunter-gatherers found ANY food that was "bad" for them, I'd like you to prove how they did so. I doubt you've even looked up what the diet contains.

    As I've said before, I've personally looked over what the diet is, and I can say with certainty it's perfectly healthy for any era. Unless the animals and other foodstuffs are radioactive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jellyologist
    Paralith, well said. We also don't have a life expectancy that lasts only as long as our second set of teeth without care (the mid 30's). Early man wasn't concerned about retirement. . Eat all the blubber and fat you want...and don't worry about wearing down your teeth eating nuts , roots and other natural hard food. Eat this diet and live to the ripe old age of 35 or 40.
    What. Okay. Now I want to hunt you down and kill you by beating you with your own SPINE. I hate you. You're stupid. End of story. You didn't even look up the diet, you just blindly agreed with the most rational ASSUMPTION in your mind. You didn't even cross-check reasons for such a limited lifespan!

    This diet doesn't contain "blubber and fat". The point was that paleolithic humans didn't HAVE blubber/fat to find. I'm not going to spoon-feed you the multitude of reasons for limited lifespans, nor am I going to intellectually debate with someone that didn't even research it (if you did, your response would have been more educated).

    According to Richard Leaky human remains show the leading causes of death of early man were predation by animals, starvation and tooth abscess and its resulting infection.
    ...and? That's the main thing about the paleolithic diet. It makes you feel extremely energetic, healthy, etc. The only thing you have to do, is eat crazy amounts to keep up your body weight.

    As for dental care, I think it should be obvious. If you don't brush your teeth for 40-50 years, you're going to lose them. There are a variety of reasons for our dental health improving since civilization began, and they do partly have to do with a change in diet.

    However, since we've largely "tamed" all of the foods required in said diet, trust me that you'll live longer than 40 years.
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  11. #10  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard paralith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremyhfht
    What. Okay. Now I want to hunt you down and kill you by beating you with your own SPINE. I hate you. You're stupid. End of story.
    Jeremy, chill out. Acting like a two year old every time someone disagrees with you is getting really old. Sheesh.

    Anyway, I looked up the diet, and you're right, it's not what I thought. There is a difference between the foods a paleolithic human would have wanted to eat and the foods a paleolithic human would have been able to get. And the diet consists of the latter, not the former. I know we are at fault for not looking it up like you said, but it also would have been very easy for you to throw a wikipedia link at us instead of threatening to tear out people's spines. And your victory over us would probably have been the better for it.
    Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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    Except that's what they got to eat, or we wouldn't have evolved to eat it. Wild fruits and other such things were VERY available in paleolithic eras.
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    I think the ultimate diet is one that suits your lifestyle. I don't really do much hard grafting, sometimes I go out and sometimes I stay in. I don't do a lot of work usually unless I have to. I think a lot and am always keeping my brain stimulated. I can eat fatty foods, carbohydrated food, etc and still look and feel fine. I think the ultimate diet is to eat a bit of everything, but don't do so on purpose. Eat what you want, but don't overdo it. Have 3 square meals a day and the odd snac (but not a lot, maybe a few buscuits) and you'll be fine given your lifestyle.

    One very lucky trait is to have a high metaoblism, if thats how you spell it . If thats the case your able to eat more. I apparently have very high metabolism, so thats probably why I can eat the way I do. I guess the easy answer is don't eat trash, I hardly eat McDonalds or fast food, HARDLY. In my opinion that and fast food is the biggest way to lose health and fitness.

    PS Excercising for me is the usual daily things, if you know what I mean.
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    I have just read the wikipedia article about Paleolithic diet and have been left with this thought:

    Why do they assume that we have not adapted civilized diets to suit our needs?

    As a Mediterranean, it all looks like a clear case of overkill, from the deadly fat and sugar-saturated diet of anglo-saxon culture to a diet apt for people not living in a civilized world...

    The problem is not civilization, the problem is the lack of a thousands years old dietetic culture.

    I am not sugesting northerners to go Mediterranean diet. That would be impossible to accomplish. All in all we're running out of fish... But, dudes, refusing to eat grain just because you still haven't figured how to do so without rotting your teeth with sugar coated corn flakes is a bit of an overkill...
    “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” -Charles Darwin
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