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Thread: Why does pain have to be bad ?

  1. #1 Why does pain have to be bad ? 
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    Given how inflammation is one fo the processes involved in healing I wonder why there has been no attempt to try and promote or use this as means of sub setting the choice of 2 evils i.e. having temporary pain at the expense of long term relief , instead of vice vesa.

    I know this doesnt apply as general rule but for sports related injuires like damaged ligaments I would of thought this would of been very useful.

    Has there ever been attempt to do anthing like this through medication ?( I dont mean things like muscle rubs for aching muscles ) but something that addresses more serious / harder to heal components such tendon, ligaments.

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    Inflammation damages nearby tissues, the chemicals involved in an inflammatory response helps repair the area but damages the tissues forming scar tissue which isnt a great response, especially for muscle.


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  4. #3 Re: Why does pain have to be bad ? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33
    Given how inflammation is one fo the processes involved in healing I wonder why there has been no attempt to try and promote or use this as means of sub setting the choice of 2 evils i.e. having temporary pain at the expense of long term relief , instead of vice vesa.

    I know this doesnt apply as general rule but for sports related injuires like damaged ligaments I would of thought this would of been very useful.

    Has there ever been attempt to do anthing like this through medication ?( I dont mean things like muscle rubs for aching muscles ) but something that addresses more serious / harder to heal components such tendon, ligaments.
    Recently whacked yourself on something?

    Medically induced swelling...well there's an avenue I haven't thought about before! Nifty idea, but yer right, there are consequences.

    I should probably call up my doctor friend and have her inform me, but I'm lazy so I'll use my own reasoning for this.

    I assume there's three basic types of swelling in this regard:

    1. Swelling with pain
    2. Swelling without pain because of reactions
    3. Swelling without pain because of nerve damage

    I'm not sure what causes pain in swelling. Perhaps it's the stress on the tissues and nerves. I know that the body can induce swelling without pain, such as in cases of allergies or infections, but I can't rule out that the body isn't doping its own senses to do so; much in the same way poisons from a mosquito numb the flesh so we don't feel the bite.

    Interestingly enough, it would seem that the pain from swelling could also be a function caused by the body as a whole, and not the injury itself. This could explain why the pain usually begins to go away once the injury begins healing.

    I think that if you used a method to cause swelling as a way of treating injuries, you'd have to also incorporate some form of pain suppressant. There's probably biological reasons against this, though. I'm sure causing unnatural swelling could have serious side effects, such as blocked blood-vessels.

    In the end, external solutions to immobilization are probably more economical, safer, and easier, than induced swelling techniques.
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    Hold on, swelling (inflammation) is characterised medically by five symptoms, kalor, dolor, rubor, tumor, functio lasae
    (heat, pain, redness, swelling, loss of function.

    If you're going to talk about inflammation you must accept that pain is an integral part of it.
    Also, I should have pointed out inflammation is not always a form of healing. for example in rheumatoid arthritis inflammation at the joints is activvely destryoing the joints due to the immune system turning on itself.
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    To Robbie;

    What do you think about the implications that 33 is suggesting, though? The use of medically-induced swelling to guard injuries?
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    Pain helps strengthen us, without it we would be weaklings.
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    If we couldn't feel pain, we wouldn't realize that something was hurting ourselves. For instance, you wouldn't think of stabbing your hand with a knife, but if you couldn't feel pain, you wouldn't realize it was hurting you.

    I actually heard an article about someone born with something wrong with his nervous system and he couldn't feel pain, the result was that he was hurting himself without realizing it.
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    This is an interesting question. Traditionally inflammation has always been considered a bad thing. We have entire procedures to stop it. Lets think about it. If you google inflammation all you get is how to rid yoursel of it. But to induce swelling to stimulate a healing response is virtually new idea, as least as far as my knowledge goes. It makes sense for joint injuries and muscle injuries, though I doubt i would use it for a brain injury. =) It would be a very interesting study to do, if you find anything please send me a private message. I love to learn new things. Allows me to show off to my friends. j/k =D
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    If i'm not mistaken, inflamation is an increase in bloodflow to an area. The increase in bloodflow brings extra white blood cells to defend against foreign material (bacteria, virusses) if the skin is broken. That much makes sense as far as the reason behind the bodies response. But why inflamation of damage under the skin? Maybe to persuade the animal to take it easy with the joint for it to be able to heal?
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    Inflammation is a razor thin and razor sharp double edged sword. It is important in healing and simultaneously can cause huge amounts of damage to the body. While sometimes its about pain, people largely try to decrease the amount of swelling because the damage that would be done to the body. Inflammation is thought to be an important component of many cancers, preceding the development of the malignant tumor. Inflammation is thought to be one of the preceding steps in the development of prostate cancer, for example.
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    hello ,

    There is actual a treamtent you can call it " alternative " if you like that has been reported to help heal injuries through this method , its called Prolotherapy .

    This isnt new but a concept they even used as far as back as ancient Greece apparently.

    That as far as I know is the only method that utilises this sort of approach , other than thermal shrinkage for surgery.

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    In Australia there was one a very controversial practice of using electrical burns on race horses to assist in healing of joint injury. The theory being the inflamation would lead to scar tissue will help stabilize the joint. There was never any emperical evidence to support this painful practice and it is now illegal.
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  14. #13 Re: Why does pain have to be bad ? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33
    Given how inflammation is one fo the processes involved in healing I wonder why there has been no attempt to try and promote or use this as means of sub setting the choice of 2 evils i.e. having temporary pain at the expense of long term relief , instead of vice vesa.
    Love it. We have a saying: "Remember; Pain is weakness leaving the body."

    It really is quite true in most cases. Pain is often a sign of healing. When you work out real hard the muscles get painful and grow stronger. In martial arts we train bone packing by (basically) hitting things really hard and very often. It hurts when your new at it; but as that body heals the bones grow stronger and the nerves more tolerant. Pain is there for a reason and there are few reasons why it should be taken away.

    Just say no to ice packs and pain killers. "Embrace the pain and you will win this game." -Avi (film: Revolver)
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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  15. #14 Re: Why does pain have to be bad ? 
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    [quote="DaBOB"]
    Quote Originally Posted by 33
    but as that body heals the bones grow stronger and the nerves more tolerant. Pain is there for a reason and there are few reasons why it should be taken away.

    Just say no to ice packs and pain killers. "Embrace the pain and you will win this game." -Avi (film: Revolver)


    I used to do pressups (pre Karate workout) on a concrete floor on my knuckles. Instructor told us same thing re bearing the pain, to avoid future pain in that area in future.
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  16. #15 Re: Why does pain have to be bad ? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaBOB
    Quote Originally Posted by 33
    Given how inflammation is one fo the processes involved in healing I wonder why there has been no attempt to try and promote or use this as means of sub setting the choice of 2 evils i.e. having temporary pain at the expense of long term relief , instead of vice vesa.
    Love it. We have a saying: "Remember; Pain is weakness leaving the body."

    It really is quite true in most cases. Pain is often a sign of healing. When you work out real hard the muscles get painful and grow stronger. In martial arts we train bone packing by (basically) hitting things really hard and very often. It hurts when your new at it; but as that body heals the bones grow stronger and the nerves more tolerant. Pain is there for a reason and there are few reasons why it should be taken away.

    Just say no to ice packs and pain killers. "Embrace the pain and you will win this game." -Avi (film: Revolver)
    Well the only trouble with that is your already in a good enough state to put your body through that in the first place i.e. you can control the pain by stopping unless less you get lucky and do something inbetween.

    If you have shoulder instability, scapular wining , rsi , or perhaps all 3 I think youd find that exercise would not stop pain because although you can blot it out or transcend it as you describe you can not stop or reverse bad mechanics that result from an inherent weakness in the systems scaffolding i.e. tissue.

    I agree though pain is there for a reason , but then pain can take on different forms too , titnitus is nothing like a cut but i vouch if you get it you'd trade.

    Pain that attacks the sense or the foundations that support functions is far worse than just cut or some simple bruising and not easy to forget i.e because you depend on it to survive .
    "When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift
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    Quote Originally Posted by Massage Therapist
    In Australia there was one a very controversial practice of using electrical burns on race horses to assist in healing of joint injury. The theory being the inflamation would lead to scar tissue will help stabilize the joint. There was never any emperical evidence to support this painful practice and it is now illegal.
    Theres plenty of evidence , the concept is known as Prolotherapy and usually done by injection , it goes as far back as greece and yes it does work.

    It is not cure , but then surgery which is far more expensive and more evasive , isnt either.

    Theres a guy in Kansas who has some reports about it on rabbits joints etc.

    Muscoskeletal problems are invisible , misunderstood and seemingly almost never addressed since their not considered a threat and more importantly keep medical and drug companies in work.

    A monoply of the people for the people .

    democracy as its best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 33
    I think youd find that exercise would not stop pain because although you can blot it out or transcend it as you describe you can not stop or reverse bad mechanics that result from an inherent weakness in the systems scaffolding i.e. tissue.
    Often time you will experience pain just before reaching the limit of flexibility as well as exertion. Especially with an injured joint. I remember my father mashed his shoulder pretty bad once and for years he couldn't lift his arm above a certain level without pain and, even when he did it would get to a point where it would go no further. This kind of pain is less tolerable in the sense that it's actually warning you of a limit as opposed to simple damage or healing. Thankfully for him he went in for some acupuncture and physical therapy and his shoulder is as good as new.

    In response to your thought on inflammation being a good thing I thought I should bring something up. I have heard that in TCM ice is not used, at least not in the way we might think to use it (for reducing swelling). I don't know have a great knowledge base on TCM but maybe there is some reason behind this.
    I think heated needles are also used in acupuncture, although I don't think it has anything to do with inducing inflammation.

    I remember when I was younger and always crashing on my bike or skateboard and it was almost more entertaining to feel the pain and watch the sizzling of the hydrogen peroxide on the wound than it was to do the activity. Now it seems like everyone I know thinks their going to die from a little cut. I think too many people have a highly superficial idea of what pain is. It's like they've never stopped to think about it.
    "hmmm... I wonder what this pain is I feel... why is it that it makes me uncomfortable... maybe because society has taught me so... maybe because I will get more attention from it..." *sigh*.
    Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then you'll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself. -Spoon Boy
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    If only to reiterate: pain is "bad" simply because it is not "good" in the context of those labels that we use. You could simply say that pain is good and pleasure is bad. Also, if there is no context for the experience, then neither pain nor pleasure can be good nor bad. "Good" and "bad" are simply ways in which we differentiate two things. More-often we associate pain as being bad, so it has become a socially natural concept that pain = bad.
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