Thread: Pfizer vaccine for Covid-19.

Being in 2 high risk groups I was privileged to have had the 1st dose of this vaccine a few days ago. I'll need the second one in 2-3 weeks.
Only side effect was a sore arm overnight.
1st dose gives about 52% immunity.
2nd about 95%.
Potential for more severe side effects after 2nd in the form of chills, headaches, joint pains.

Next time I'm in Gloucester Cathedral I'll pay my respects to Edward Jenner.
He is the man credited with saving more lives that any other through the invention of vaccination.
He came from nearby Berkeley and there's a statue of him just inside the main entrance.

https://jennermuseum.com/

Medicine has saved the lives of untold numbers of people over the last few centuries, when quackery slowly gave way to real medical treatments that helped people survive.

It has been estimated that just in its last 100 years of rampaging through human populations around the globe, smallpox killed upwards of 500 million people. Jenner was of course instrumental in the eradication of this scourge, using cowpox as a vaccine, particularly after noting that milkmaids were generally immune to smallpox.

But the issue now is what do we do about all the people which have resulted from the wonders of modern medicine?

In 1940, at the start of World War II, there were about 2.3 billion people on the planet. That war claimed only ca. 3% of these, despite the enormous battle casualties and related events.

Today, with the help of modern medicine, the global population has reached about 7.8 billion (U.N. estimate).

Sadly, this enormous rise in humans trampling the planet has led to a mass extinction event that now threatens the existence of ca. 1 million species, according to some estimates.

While modern medicine has saved so many lives, some would conclude that it may end up taking many more than it ever saved, based on the current course of events. Those lives, spared by medicine to breed into many billions, have resulted in an overpopulation which is now clearly driving the demise of earth's biosphere, and with it many humans. Billions could perish from many causes (war not the least of them this time), most of which modern medicine will be helpless to prevent.

How do we curtail these on-going calamities? There is no vaccine for humans pushing and amplifying their own demise. It could be said that this is the ultimate example of "The Rule of Unintended Consequences."

Ironically, modern medicine appears to be a double-edged sword. And for all those humans, who rule over all the earth, that sword might very well be that of Dr. Damocles.

Originally Posted by Double Helix

Medicine has saved the lives of untold numbers of people over the last few centuries, when quackery slowly gave way to real medical treatments that helped people survive.

It has been estimated that just in its last 100 years of rampaging through human populations around the globe, smallpox killed upwards of 500 million people. Jenner was of course instrumental in the eradication of this scourge, using cowpox as a vaccine, particularly after noting that milkmaids were generally immune to smallpox.

But the issue now is what do we do about all the people which have resulted from the wonders of modern medicine?

In 1940, at the start of World War II, there were about 2.3 billion people on the planet. That war claimed only ca. 3% of these, despite the enormous battle casualties and related events.

Today, with the help of modern medicine, the global population has reached about 7.8 billion (U.N. estimate).

Sadly, this enormous rise in humans trampling the planet has led to a mass extinction event that now threatens the existence of ca. 1 million species, according to some estimates.

While modern medicine has saved so many lives, some would conclude that it may end up taking many more than it ever saved, based on the current course of events. Those lives, spared by medicine to breed into many billions, have resulted in an overpopulation which is now clearly driving the demise of earth's biosphere, and with it many humans. Billions could perish from many causes (war not the least of them this time), most of which modern medicine will be helpless to prevent.

How do we curtail these on-going calamities? There is no vaccine for humans pushing and amplifying their own demise. It could be said that this is the ultimate example of "The Rule of Unintended Consequences."

Ironically, modern medicine appears to be a double-edged sword. And for all those humans, who rule over all the earth, that sword might very well be that of Dr. Damocles.

Who was Dr. Damocles? I've never heard of him.

"The Sword of Damocles" is an ancient anecdote about the perils of those in power.

It is used here to denote the potentially fatal aspects of the use, or the abuse, of that power by humans.

The "Dr." is an honorary title bestowed by this author to dramatize the issue.

Originally Posted by Double Helix

How do we curtail these on-going calamities? There is no vaccine for humans pushing and amplifying their own demise. It could be said that this is the ultimate example of "The Rule of Unintended Consequences."

Ironically, modern medicine appears to be a double-edged sword. And for all those humans, who rule over all the earth, that sword might very well be that of Dr. Damocles.

An inconvenient truth is that humans have overpopulated the earth. But by the end of this century the population might be halved.
Right now viruses have plenty to feed on. I think we have to limit air travel in particular. What took years now takes hours to spread around the world.

The price for overpopulation has to be paid in some way.
Modern medicine does not help to limit population and is a barrier to evolution by natural selection which is based on cruelty and suffering.
Except that for the last few thousand years of their history humans have wanted an antidote to suffering. I can't see that changing.

Originally Posted by ox

An inconvenient truth is that humans have overpopulated the earth. But by the end of this century the population might be halved.
Right now viruses have plenty to feed on. I think we have to limit air travel in particular. What took years now takes hours to spread around the world.

The price for overpopulation has to be paid in some way.
Modern medicine does not help to limit population and is a barrier to evolution by natural selection which is based on cruelty and suffering.
Except that for the last few thousand years of their history humans have wanted an antidote to suffering. I can't see that changing.

This is so very true. One can only wonder how humans would have evolved without modern medicine.

Considering our penchant for waging wars and conquests of others, we might have ended up looking (and acting) like Klingons, at best. (Some of us have the acting part down already!)

And it is also very true the "price for overpopulation has to be paid in some way." That will almost certainly be the demise of billions of humans, joining all the other species we are driving to their demise. Quite appropriate, some might think......

The availability of potable water and sufficient nutrition will likely be the biggest problem (excepting a global nuclear exchange). Actually, it already is in many areas of high population density.

Viruses, as we can see, could also get into the act, as might antibiotic-resistant super bacteria, also brought to us by modern medicine.

It is likely someone wrote a book about all this, or needs to.

Just had my delayed 2nd dose of Pfizer vaccine.
After a slow and uncertain start it now seems the UK has done extremely well.
Why has the rest of Europe not done so well, I don't know.
I'll blame it on the bureaucracy of the EU.

Originally Posted by exchemist

Originally Posted by Double Helix

Medicine has saved the lives of untold numbers of people over the last few centuries, when quackery slowly gave way to real medical treatments that helped people survive.

It has been estimated that just in its last 100 years of rampaging through human populations around the globe, smallpox killed upwards of 500 million people. Jenner was of course instrumental in the eradication of this scourge, using cowpox as a vaccine, particularly after noting that milkmaids were generally immune to smallpox.

But the issue now is what do we do about all the people which have resulted from the wonders of modern medicine?

In 1940, at the start of World War II, there were about 2.3 billion people on the planet. That war claimed only ca. 3% of these, despite the enormous battle casualties and related events.

Today, with the help of modern medicine, the global population has reached about 7.8 billion (U.N. estimate).

Sadly, this enormous rise in humans trampling the planet has led to a mass extinction event that now threatens the existence of ca. 1 million species, according to some estimates.

While modern medicine has saved so many lives, some would conclude that it may end up taking many more than it ever saved, based on the current course of events. Those lives, spared by medicine to breed into many billions, have resulted in an overpopulation which is now clearly driving the demise of earth's biosphere, and with it many humans. Billions could perish from many causes (war not the least of them this time), most of which modern medicine will be helpless to prevent.

How do we curtail these on-going calamities? There is no vaccine for humans pushing and amplifying their own demise. It could be said that this is the ultimate example of "The Rule of Unintended Consequences."

Ironically, modern medicine appears to be a double-edged sword. And for all those humans, who rule over all the earth, that sword might very well be that of Dr. Damocles.

Who was Dr. Damocles? I've never heard of him.

A likely reference to the "Sword of Damocles"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damocles

A confusion between Damocles and Hippocrates(one of the first doctors after whom the Hippocratic Oath is named)

There is also the Rod of Asclepius which looks a bit like a sword

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_of_Asclepius

Just had my 3rd Pfizer jab (a booster) at Edgbaston Cricket Ground, only 2 weeks after I was watching Warwickshire win the County Championship there.
I can now get a vaccine passport if I want to go travelling.
It feels great, but I still can't help feeling that all this jabbing is counter Darwinian, and it is only a matter of time before something far more serious hits us.
There is always a price to pay and human evolution could potentially go backwards.

OX!!!! Aloha!

There will always be something else.

Waiting to get our BOOSTER of Moderna. Hey, polio, small pox, whooping cought, MM&R so many in the past, lets get this one out of our every day lives of fatality once and for all!

Viruses rule the world, don't they?
Naked apes are just one of their food sources.

How many have an extraterrestrial origin?
Like arriving by way of rocks hitting the Earth.
When intelligent life is extinguished on this planet there will still be viruses.

Originally Posted by ox

Viruses rule the world, don't they?
Naked apes are just one of their food sources.

How many have an extraterrestrial origin?
Like arriving by way of rocks hitting the Earth.
When intelligent life is extinguished on this planet there will still be viruses.

Not food sources. Viruses have no metabolism.

To them, we are manufacturing facilities for more viruses.

Correction: should have said we are just one of their prey.

How far would they stretch if you put them end to end?

https://theconversation.com/what-is-...us-sick-133437

Anti-darwinian? (First question why "darwinian", given that THAT particular theory is outdated by the current modern synthesis)

And second. Its not at all, humans as a species are reacting to a change in nature by adaptation

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

Anti-darwinian?

Where did I say that?

Its not at all, humans as a species are reacting to a change in nature by adaptation

Going forwards or backwards?

Originally Posted by ox

Just had my delayed 2nd dose of Pfizer vaccine.

FYI most recent research indicates that the more delay, the better. 12 weeks delay is looking to be close to ideal in terms of reducing hospitalizations.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/35/e2104640118

That was an issue with autocorrect. I meant to ask Why "darwinism".

There is no "backwards" in modern synthesis, so the question you attempt to pose is a non-sequitur

Originally Posted by billvon

Originally Posted by ox

Just had my delayed 2nd dose of Pfizer vaccine.

FYI most recent research indicates that the more delay, the better. 12 weeks delay is looking to be close to ideal in terms of reducing hospitalizations.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/35/e2104640118

Looking at the article, it was first received by PNAS for review March 12, 2021 (and published August 31, 2021).

The PNAS paper assumes a first dose efficacy ≥50%, which is significantly greater than that against the Delta variant, for which it is much lower: ca. 30.7% using the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine *.

It would seem there are some significant variables in all this, making an optimal lag between doses difficult to assess. It is likely these may vary depending on the variant, and the vaccine being used, among other variables.


"Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccines against the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant"

* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8314739/

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

That was an issue with autocorrect. I meant to ask Why "darwinism".

Nice try.

There is no "backwards" in modern synthesis, so the question you attempt to pose is a non-sequitur

Is it a bird or a snake?

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...snakes-science

Nice try at what? Asking why you specifically use an outdated term for evolution?


You tell me, what does the paper you linked say? I know what phylogentics says on the subject, and I know news outlets are atrocious at science reporting. I also know that national geographic is far from the pinnacle of science reporting (case and point the chimeara dinosaur from china they hopped on before the official description was even published. )

Originally Posted by Paleoichneum

You tell me, what does the paper you linked say? I know what phylogentics says on the subject, and I know news outlets are atrocious at science reporting. I also know that national geographic is far from the pinnacle of science reporting (case and point the chimeara dinosaur from china they hopped on before the official description was even published. )

Phylo what?
Chim what?

Phylogenetics, interrelatedness based on phylogeny

Chimera ( in the paleontology meaning)

I do not intend to do the vaccine. What is the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated? Can vaccinated and unvaccinated get covid? -Yes. Can vaccinated and unvaccinated transmit covid?- Yes. Can vaccinated and unvaccinated end up in hospital? -Yes. End up on respirator? -Yes. The manufacturer of the vaccine do not guarantee, seeks disclaimer. The importer of the vaccine seeks disclaimer. The Drug Agency is seeking a disclaimer. Doctors are asked to sign the responsibility and recommend vaccination. I think organisation of the murder or Space Center is something from finance and banking.

Originally Posted by Ansha

What is the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated?

It is a probability issue. Without vaccination, the risk of infection and a bad result is much higher.

Learning things can often require direct experience. What happens to people who avoid the best medical advice is often an example of a learning experience. Based on all of your "notions", it seems likely you have already met the virus, and nothing bad happened, like most people. That means you are "vaccinated", whether you want to be or not.

Herd immunity is obtained by both vaccinated and unvaccinated people. Sooner or later, you will be part of the herd, or already are. This virus is relentless.

Originally Posted by Ansha

I do not intend to do the vaccine. What is the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated? Can vaccinated and unvaccinated get covid? -Yes. Can vaccinated and unvaccinated transmit covid?- Yes. Can vaccinated and unvaccinated end up in hospital? -Yes. End up on respirator? -Yes. The manufacturer of the vaccine do not guarantee, seeks disclaimer. The importer of the vaccine seeks disclaimer. The Drug Agency is seeking a disclaimer. Doctors are asked to sign the responsibility and recommend vaccination. I think organisation of the murder or Space Center is something from finance and banking.

Then you are an idiot.

Just for the record here.
1st jab left me with a sore arm overnight.
2nd - less of a sore arm.
3rd - I didn't feel a thing and no sore arm.

As I can't report any symptoms of Covid-19, might the above be a clue?

Originally Posted by ox

Just for the record here.
1st jab left me with a sore arm overnight.
2nd - less of a sore arm.
3rd - I didn't feel a thing and no sore arm.

As I can't report any symptoms of Covid-19, might the above be a clue?

Adverse reactions to the original shots or the boosters in all populations range from zero to a number of symptoms. Would not make anything out of this result.

Your symptoms seem to decline after each shot. For you, that could simply indicate a tolerance to the vaccine rather than anything else.

I don't recall seeing a long needle with the booster shot so I assumed the technology had improved.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/21/pfiz...ge-study-.html