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Thread: Ebola Virus - What should you do?

  1. #1 Ebola Virus - What should you do? 
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    Ebola Virus - What should you do? Seems such a hard disease to treat, can it be stopped? To treat a patient the staff have to touch them and that is how it spreads.

    Any ideas on how to contain this virus?


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    1. Seek medical attention
    2. Mortality rates for Ebola are somewhere between 50% and 90% (it's hard to pin down as only severe cases get reported and it starts off as flu-like)
    3. The disease gets spread via direct fluid contact - so limiting that is the best way of containment.


    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
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    Ebola and related diseases like lasha fever are virus diseases that are infectious by a variety of different paths. They are generally tropical and infect animals as well as humans. The amimal vectors are believed to be tropical rats, mice and similar rodents. The disease is classed as a hemerragic fever and bleeding from various orifices is a primary symptom. Mortality is very high. My understanding is that the disease can be transmited by direct contact with the body or body fluids of an infected person but also that there can be air borne droplet infection and that an aerosol of the dried virus can also be infectious. Regardless of the exact route of infection ebola and related diseases are extremely contagious. My data may be out of date but I would consider that it can be passed by all possible routes and take precautions based on that assumption.
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    If you catch Ebola, and survive, is there still a high risk of catching it again shortly after recovering? I’m thinking your body’s defences will be immune until a new strain of Ebola? Maybe someone can clarify?
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    World Health Organization has a factsheet on it with some suggestions.
    WHO | Ebola virus disease
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapples View Post
    If you catch Ebola, and survive, is there still a high risk of catching it again shortly after recovering? I’m thinking your body’s defenses will be immune until a new strain of Ebola? Maybe someone can clarify?
    There was some preclinical work done by the US army using Morpholino antisense oligos to inhibit replication of Ebola. As I recall, they found that once simians were treated with Morpholinos and infected, their survival rate greatly improved and subsequent exposure to Ebola did not produce disease. Likely this was due to adaptive immunity gained during the first infection. Here are some of the citations (I don't have time now to dig out just which addressed immunity, sorry).

    Iversen PL, Warren TK, Wells JB, Garza NL, Mourich DV, Welch LS, Panchal RG, Bavari S. Discovery and Early Development of AVI-7537 and AVI-7288 for the Treatment of Ebola Virus and Marburg Virus Infections. Viruses. 2012;4(11):2806-2830. doi:10.3390/v4112806.

    Swenson DL, Warfield KL, Warren TK, Lovejoy C, Hassinger JN, Ruthel G, Blouch RE, Moulton HM, Weller DD, Iversen PL, Bavari S. Chemical modifications of antisense morpholino oligomers enhance their efficacy against ebolavirus infection. Antimicrob Agents Chemother. 2009 Feb 17. [Epub ahead of print].

    Vander-Linden CL. Gene-Specific Ebola Therapies Protect Nonhuman Primates from Lethal Diseases. Chem-Bio Defense Quarterly. 2006 3(2):8-9.

    Warfield KL, Swenson DL, Olinger GG, Nichols DK, Pratt WD, Blouch R, Stein DA, Aman MJ, Iversen PL, Bavari S. Gene-Specific Countermeasures against Ebola Virus Based on Antisense Phosphorodiamidate Morpholino Oligomers. PLoS Pathog. 2006 Jan;2(1):e1. Epub 2006 Jan 13.

    Enterlein S, Warfield KL, Swenson DL, Stein DA, Smith JL, Gamble CS, Kroeker AD, Iversen PL, Bavari S, Muhlberger E. VP35 Knockdown Inhibits Ebola Virus Amplification and Protects against Lethal Infection in Mice. Antimicrob Agents Chemother. 2006 Mar;50(3):984-93.
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    This article is worth reading for it seems to be a plea for help.
    Ebola may expand its deadly reach beyond Africa
    Ebola may expand its deadly reach beyond Africa
    DAKAR, Senegal — The deadly Ebola virus outbreak sweeping West Africa would likely expand farther because it's killing key medical professionals who are treating patients sick with the disease, health experts say."This outbreak is not showing any signs of slowing down," said Unni Krishnan, a doctor with the British relief agency Plan International, which is active throughout West Africa. "It is gaining more speed in some locations and killing even more people and now is affecting even more countries. It is all quite worrying."
    The Ebola outbreak that started in February has spread across Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria and Sierra Leone, killing more than 670 people and infecting more than 1,200 others, including two American doctors and prominent African specialists.
    "We need more money, more materials, because we are talking about countries which already have some of the weakest health systems and a lack of resources," Krishnan said. "They were already stretched to their limits. With this Ebola outbreak, their health systems have been crippled, making it hard for them to contain the spread."
    Doctors have strict measures to protect clinicians from the deadly virus, in addition to wearing hazmat-style protective gear that can slow down a doctor while treating a patient in the hot African summer, said Julie Diamond, a Senegal-based spokeswoman for Doctors Without Borders.
    "There is sufficient space in between patients, clear separation between high-risk and low-risk areas, sufficient lighting, secure waste management and regular cleaning and disinfection of the wards," she said.
    Still despite precautions, two American health workers have fallen ill. One of them, Nancy Writebol, a mother of two, was treating Ebola patients for the past year in the Liberian capital of Monrovia with the overseas Christian aid group Serving in Mission, before she contracted the deadly virus ... .
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    Last edited by Jon Moulton; July 29th, 2014 at 01:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Moulton View Post
    The sentence in that article that made me cringe: " “It would be great to have a vaccine, but it’s not easy to do and not clear who you’d test it on.” Boko Haram springs to mind.
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    What should we do? Nothing, other than perhaps continue to follow the news and make sure our representative/politicians don't get in the way of supporting the CDC and UN which tends to be the leads on help the inflicted nations cope with the disease.

    --
    I was wondering if the incubation period is slowing down....it's a pretty common evolutionary change in diseases that kill the host so fast it inhibits its ability to spread--killing slower is a reproductive advantage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    What should we do? Nothing, other than perhaps continue to follow the news and make sure our representative/politicians don't get in the way of supporting the CDC and UN which tends to be the leads on help the inflicted nations cope with the disease.

    --
    I was wondering if the incubation period is slowing down....it's a pretty common evolutionary change in diseases that kill the host so fast it inhibits its ability to spread--killing slower is a reproductive advantage.
    I haven't got the actual figures but I was saying recently that in those countries with Ebola the population growth rate will be still much higher than the death rate even with rampant ebola. The population might have gone up by 3,000 in the time Ebola has killed 1000. But it is the loss of medical staff. The doctors and nurses might be killed off faster than their replacement rate.
    So I couldn't agree that Ebola needs to slow down its infection rate just yet.
    As a later thought an incubation period does not slow down. A period in my mind lengthens or shortens. So are you saying the incubation period is getting longer? A longer incubation makes it an even trickier disease for there will be more contacts in the longer period. Not only that the contacts will have to suffer longer wondering if they will come down with it.
    Last edited by Robittybob1; August 2nd, 2014 at 10:45 PM.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Why didn't they treat these people over there where they contracted it along with all the others who are sick?
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    Assessing death rates versus birth rates is not simply addition and subtraction.

    Almost half of the people of sub-Saharan Africa are age 14 or under. Medical conditions are deplorable, with high infant and child mortality rates. When a disease kills a parent or both parents, what social welfare system cares for the children? Who would want a child of Ebola parents? Would they end up in orphanages and spread the disease there? Do the governments have the facilities to quarantine the children? Health ignorance and stigma runs high in sub-Saharan Africa. Consider the virgin cleansing myth.

    When I think of "rampant" Ebola, a nuclear chain reaction comes to mind ... as in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    What should we do? Nothing, other than perhaps continue to follow the news and make sure our representative/politicians don't get in the way of supporting the CDC and UN which tends to be the leads on help the inflicted nations cope with the disease.

    --
    I was wondering if the incubation period is slowing down....it's a pretty common evolutionary change in diseases that kill the host so fast it inhibits its ability to spread--killing slower is a reproductive advantage.
    So is a reduction in virulence (mortality rate). If the virus mutates to a form that is transmissable without killing most of the hosts it means more long term carriers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Why didn't they treat these people over there where they contracted it along with all the others who are sick?
    Easier said than done!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    Assessing death rates versus birth rates is not simply addition and subtraction.

    Almost half of the people of sub-Saharan Africa are age 14 or under. Medical conditions are deplorable, with high infant and child mortality rates. When a disease kills a parent or both parents, what social welfare system cares for the children? Who would want a child of Ebola parents? Would they end up in orphanages and spread the disease there? Do the governments have the facilities to quarantine the children? Health ignorance and stigma runs high in sub-Saharan Africa. Consider the virgin cleansing myth.

    When I think of "rampant" Ebola, a nuclear chain reaction comes to mind ... as in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
    My rates were looking at the issue from the viruses point view (if there is such a thing). I was just trying to suggest the total population count is still rising despite of the disease.
    I agree with what you say entirely otherwise.
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    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Why didn't they treat these people over there where they contracted it along with all the others who are sick?
    Easier said than done!

    I don't understand. Why would keeping them over there be so difficult for there are doctors there that know more about this disease than most doctors here in the USA. You could be bringing a very deadly disease to America and might have problems in controlling it which could lead to the virus getting out into the general public. Where does the bodily fluids go to? Where are all the things that come into contact put? If these two people were already taking the precautions that they needed to take over there then how did they contract this disease?
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    You could be bringing a very deadly disease to America and might have problems in controlling it which could lead to the virus getting out into the general public.
    Remember that this has already happened - there was an Ebola Reston outbreak in Virginia in 1990. The virus had been imported in monkeys, in which it caused a disease very similar to human Ebola, called SHF ( simian hemorrhagic fever ). Several people who were in close contact with the monkeys became infected; it is probably fortunate that Ebola Reston has a very low pathogenicity in humans, and everyone infected remained asymptomatic. Ebola Reston belongs to the same family filoviridae as Ebola Zaire, which is what the current outbreak in West Africa is caused by.

    To be honest, I don't see how Ebola Zaire could possibly take hold and spread in a first world country such as the US or any country in Europe. None of the risk factors ( lack of sanitation, lack of isolation units, cultural mistrust in modern medicine, traditional burial practices ) are present here, so a handful of patients being repatriated using the appropriate containment protocols presents a negligible danger to the wider public. Not that I am an expert on any of this, but this is how I see things.

    Where does the bodily fluids go to?
    They are being treated or safely destroyed, just like any other hospital waste.

    Where are all the things that come into contact put?
    They are safely incinerated.

    If these two people were already taking the precautions that they needed to take over there then how did they contract this disease?
    For any number of reasons - it is not really possible to speculate on this. The most likely reason is either by accident ( e.g. needle stick injury ), or by being unknowingly exposed to someone who has the disease. Perhaps they just didn't have the means to take appropriate precautions. We don't know.

    Why didn't they treat these people over there
    Would you be asking this if it was your wife/daughter/son ?
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    I don´t understand this. 500 people die somewhere in Africa and people go bananas. Guess what, 500 people die in 5 minutes on average. Also I don´t understand medias obsession with Ebola. It´s fairly weak disease that does not spread through air. It´s mortality rates are low compared to other dangenrous diseases and probability of spreading to developed world are next to nothing. I don´t mean to be blunt or disrespectful to victims of ebola but these are just facts. While it is somewhat good that media likes these ebola incidents (because it attracts attention to the third world and Doctors without borders) the Ebola "outbreak" just cannot compare to real killers like malaria or rabbies (100% mortality rate, yes) which noone cares about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gere View Post
    .... Also I don´t understand medias obsession with Ebola. It´s fairly weak disease that does not spread through air. ....
    Ah, but it is a gory horror movie kind of disease, and as they say about media stories, "If it bleeds, it leads."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    You could be bringing a very deadly disease to America and might have problems in controlling it which could lead to the virus getting out into the general public.
    Remember that this has already happened - there was an Ebola Reston outbreak in Virginia in 1990. The virus had been imported in monkeys, in which it caused a disease very similar to human Ebola, called SHF ( simian hemorrhagic fever ). Several people who were in close contact with the monkeys became infected; it is probably fortunate that Ebola Reston has a very low pathogenicity in humans, and everyone infected remained asymptomatic. Ebola Reston belongs to the same family filoviridae as Ebola Zaire, which is what the current outbreak in West Africa is caused by.

    To be honest, I don't see how Ebola Zaire could possibly take hold and spread in a first world country such as the US or any country in Europe. None of the risk factors ( lack of sanitation, lack of isolation units, cultural mistrust in modern medicine, traditional burial practices ) are present here, so a handful of patients being repatriated using the appropriate containment protocols presents a negligible danger to the wider public. Not that I am an expert on any of this, but this is how I see things.

    Where does the bodily fluids go to?
    They are being treated or safely destroyed, just like any other hospital waste.

    Where are all the things that come into contact put?
    They are safely incinerated.

    If these two people were already taking the precautions that they needed to take over there then how did they contract this disease?
    For any number of reasons - it is not really possible to speculate on this. The most likely reason is either by accident ( e.g. needle stick injury ), or by being unknowingly exposed to someone who has the disease. Perhaps they just didn't have the means to take appropriate precautions. We don't know.

    Why didn't they treat these people over there
    Would you be asking this if it was your wife/daughter/son ?
    Spot on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gere View Post
    I don´t understand this. 500 people die somewhere in Africa and people go bananas. Guess what, 500 people die in 5 minutes on average. Also I don´t understand medias obsession with Ebola. It´s fairly weak disease that does not spread through air. It´s mortality rates are low compared to other dangenrous diseases and probability of spreading to developed world are next to nothing. I don´t mean to be blunt or disrespectful to victims of ebola but these are just facts. While it is somewhat good that media likes these ebola incidents (because it attracts attention to the third world and Doctors without borders) the Ebola "outbreak" just cannot compare to real killers like malaria or rabbies (100% mortality rate, yes) which noone cares about.
    Well, there are obvious differences between Ebola and malaria/rabies, but I agree that the media is certainly overreacting (surprise).
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    I don't understand. Why would keeping them over there be so difficult for there are doctors there that know more about this disease than most doctors here in the USA.
    It wouldn't be hard. But you need a very good reason to exile US citizens from the US - and having a controllable disease is insufficient reason.
    You could be bringing a very deadly disease to America and might have problems in controlling it which could lead to the virus getting out into the general public.
    True. However the odds of that are low. Your odds of being killed by sunlight are far, far higher than being killed by Ebola - but I have a feeling you will still go outside.
    Where does the bodily fluids go to? Where are all the things that come into contact put?
    Incinerated, generally. Hospitals have been doing this for decades.
    If these two people were already taking the precautions that they needed to take over there then how did they contract this disease?
    In general, infectious disease prevention practices in the US are far more competent than such practices in Liberia.
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    People know better now, but in the day, Ebola was one of those diseases known to run rampant (sorry, Robbitybob) among African tribes due to the people not understanding germ theory along with their hands-on practice of cleansing dead bodies in preparation for burial. Someone in a village would die from Ebola, and relatives in the village and from surrounding villages would prepare the body and become infected. After the funeral, they would take the disease inside them back to their villages, and it would be this horrific nuclear-chain-reaction catastrophic disaster, relatively speaking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrmonroe View Post
    People know better now, but in the day, Ebola was one of those diseases known to run rampant (sorry, Robbitybob) among African tribes due to the people not understanding germ theory along with their hands-on practice of cleansing dead bodies in preparation for burial. Someone in a village would die from Ebola, and relatives in the village and from surrounding villages would prepare the body and become infected. After the funeral, they would take the disease inside them back to their villages, and it would be this horrific nuclear-chain-reaction catastrophic disaster, relatively speaking.
    I'm not sure why you said you're sorry for I totally agree with you, for it aligns with what I been hearing of the burial practices in Africa.

    This is a change: "Liberia orders Ebola victims' bodies to be cremated" BBC News - Liberia orders Ebola victims' bodies to be cremated

    What I am afraid of is when the countries start imposing curfews to try and limit interpersonal contact the towns folk will start to panic and spread out across the country or to other countries in vast numbers spreading the disease as they go. I had heard there was a curfew in one country already but there is no easy-to-find news article about it.
    Last edited by Robittybob1; August 4th, 2014 at 11:23 PM.
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    Gere, the reason you don't see what is scary is that you have some incorrect beliefs. Ebola's motality rate is 60 to 90 precent. If you get it you have a 1 to 4 in ten chance of survival. There is no vaccine, there is no effective treatment. Ebola is spead by ALL possible routes. It most cerainly is air borne. I'm a nurse and the pictures on the news show workers treating the Ebola patients are wearing air borne disease protective gear. Dead bodies of Ebola victims are actively infectious, generally speaking a dead person is not a threat to the living since without respirations and excreation they do not spread germs, but this is not the case with Ebola where the dead body's surface sheds virus.
    Rabies has a 100% death rate once you start showing symptoms, but the incubation period is months long and there is an effective vaccine that can be taken after exposure, also infection only happens from body fluid to blood contact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    ...
    What I am afraid of is when the countries start imposing curfews to try and limit interpersonal contact the towns folk will start to panic and spread out across the country or to other countries in vast numbers spreading the disease as they go. I had heard there was a curfew in one country already but there is no easy-to-find news article about it.
    It seems that some areas are so infected the army has surrounded the quarantined areas. Does this mean that the ones within the areas have been given a virtual death sentence?
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    Maybe someone here can shed a light on something I - a hobby physics enthusiast with little knowledge about medicine - have been wondering about. A lot of sources I see around the Internet say that Ebola Zaire is not airborne, yet at the same time the saliva ( just like all other bodily fluids ) of infected persons is literally loaded with virus. This seems to be a contradiction to me - is it possible for saliva to be infectious, yet for the disease itself not to be airborne ?

    Whatever the answer is, I most certainly would not fancy getting sneezed on by someone who has tested positive for Ebola Zaire...
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    The people treating it, are treating it as if it were airborne. That's enough for me. That said, "airborne" means you can catch it from droplets in the air near the patient, not on the breeze from the next town. Other hemmoragic fevers have been traced to virus shed from rat urine carried as dried virus in airborne dust during a particularly dry season. I don't know if this is true of Ebola Zaire, but the health care workers I have seem pictured seem to be wearing full coverage protective gear which indicates protecting themselves against an airborne threat.
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    The main difference from what I read is the distance and time that the droplets can remain infectious from.
    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/741245_3

    ....Droplet vs Airborne Transmission

    The 2007 updated CDC Healthcare Infection Control Practices Advisory Committee (HICPAC) infection control guidance defines droplet transmission as a form of contact transmission in which respiratory droplets carrying infectious pathogens transmit infection when they travel directly from the respiratory tract of the infectious individual to susceptible mucosal surfaces (nasal mucosa, conjunctivae, and less frequently, the mouth) of a recipient, "generally over short distances, necessitating facial protection."[34]
    For diseases classified as being transmitted by the droplet route, surgical masks are recommended to protect the mouth and nose. The guidance also states that although 5 µm has traditionally been defined as the particle size break point distinguishing between larger particles (droplet transmission) and smaller particles (airborne transmission), observations of particle dynamics have demonstrated that a range of droplet sizes, including those with diameters of 30 μm or greater, can remain suspended in the air. Influenza virus is an example of a pathogen transmitted by the droplet route.
    The HICPAC guidance defines airborne transmission as dissemination of either airborne droplet nuclei or small particles in the respirable size range containing infectious agents that remain infective over time and distance. It states that microorganisms carried in this manner may be dispersed over long distances by air currents and may be inhaled by susceptible individuals who have not had face-to-face contact with (or been in the same room with) the infectious individual.
    Furthermore, preventing the spread of pathogens by the airborne route requires the use of special air handling and ventilation systems, such as airborne infection isolation rooms (AIIRs) to contain and then safely remove the infectious agents. In addition to AIIRs, respiratory protection with a NIOSH-certified N95 or higher level respirator is recommended for HCP entering the AIIR to prevent acquisition of airborne infectious agents. Mycobacterium tuberculosis is cited as an example of a pathogen transmitted by the airborne route.
    In spite of the distinction made between droplet and airborne transmission, current knowledge of aerosols indicates that there is no clear line differentiating droplet and airborne transmission, as currently defined, on the basis of particle size. ....
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    The main difference from what I read is the distance and time that the droplets can remain infectious from.
    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/741245_3

    ....Droplet vs Airborne Transmission

    The 2007 updated CDC Healthcare Infection Control Practices Advisory Committee (HICPAC) infection control guidance defines droplet transmission as a form of contact transmission in which respiratory droplets carrying infectious pathogens transmit infection when they travel directly from the respiratory tract of the infectious individual to susceptible mucosal surfaces (nasal mucosa, conjunctivae, and less frequently, the mouth) of a recipient, "generally over short distances, necessitating facial protection."[34]
    For diseases classified as being transmitted by the droplet route, surgical masks are recommended to protect the mouth and nose. The guidance also states that although 5 µm has traditionally been defined as the particle size break point distinguishing between larger particles (droplet transmission) and smaller particles (airborne transmission), observations of particle dynamics have demonstrated that a range of droplet sizes, including those with diameters of 30 μm or greater, can remain suspended in the air. Influenza virus is an example of a pathogen transmitted by the droplet route.
    The HICPAC guidance defines airborne transmission as dissemination of either airborne droplet nuclei or small particles in the respirable size range containing infectious agents that remain infective over time and distance. It states that microorganisms carried in this manner may be dispersed over long distances by air currents and may be inhaled by susceptible individuals who have not had face-to-face contact with (or been in the same room with) the infectious individual.
    Furthermore, preventing the spread of pathogens by the airborne route requires the use of special air handling and ventilation systems, such as airborne infection isolation rooms (AIIRs) to contain and then safely remove the infectious agents. In addition to AIIRs, respiratory protection with a NIOSH-certified N95 or higher level respirator is recommended for HCP entering the AIIR to prevent acquisition of airborne infectious agents. Mycobacterium tuberculosis is cited as an example of a pathogen transmitted by the airborne route.
    In spite of the distinction made between droplet and airborne transmission, current knowledge of aerosols indicates that there is no clear line differentiating droplet and airborne transmission, as currently defined, on the basis of particle size. ....
    That sentence sets the standard for airborne for me "... may be inhaled by susceptible individuals who have not had face-to-face contact with (or been in the same room with) the infectious individual."
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    Ebola Reston has a very low pathogenicity in humans. Hmm. Pull the old switch-a-roo?

    You know that I don't have information that inoculating patients or the general population with a lower (rate of spread or pathogenic strength -- if these are regarded mutually exclusive) virus would stop the spread the disease or overtake the other virus.

    It would kill immunodeficient susceptible population before they are infected and spread the deadly disease.


    It would limit the number of people killed by the deadly disease. Because they were already dead.

    What was the prevalence of the deadly Ebola virus (or other communicable diseases) before the inoculations started? Have deadly diseases spread more or less?


    There are way to stop these diseases in part, to some extent on the greater population. Unfortunately I can't tell you what they are because I have to kill you.

    Ethically speaking I choose to not break laws. I feel better about myself. When you choose to break laws you must be punished. You should also feel very bad about yourself.
    Last edited by vampares; August 8th, 2014 at 01:38 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vampares View Post
    .....
    There are way to stop these diseases in part, to some extent on the greater population. Unfortunately I can't tell you what they are because I have to kill you.

    Ethically speaking I choose to not break laws. I feel better about myself. When you choose to break laws you must be punished. You should also feel very bad about yourself.
    Are you having second thoughts?
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    I expect you to die Mister Bond.
    Its the way nature is!
    If you dont like it, go somewhere else....
    To another universe, where the rules are simpler
    Philosophically more pleasing, more psychologically easy
    Prof Richard Feynman (1979) .....

    Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by vampares View Post
    Ebola Reston has a very low pathogenicity in humans. Hmm. Pull the old switch-a-roo?
    Just an observation based on the fact that in total seven humans tested positive for it during the 1990 outbreak, yet none of them developed any symptoms of disease. Is this not the definition of pathogenicity ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by vampares View Post
    Ebola Reston has a very low pathogenicity in humans. Hmm. Pull the old switch-a-roo?
    Just an observation based on the fact that in total seven humans tested positive for it during the 1990 outbreak, yet none of them developed any symptoms of disease. Is this not the definition of pathogenicity ?
    Google definition.
    [*]Pathogenicity
    Pathogenicity refers to the ability of an organism to cause disease (ie, harm the host). This ability represents a genetic component of the pathogen and the overt damage done to the host is a property of the host-pathogen interactions.
    For an organism to have pathogenicity it has to to be able to do harm. Otherwise it will be called non-pathogenic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    For an organism to have pathogenicity it has to to be able to do harm. Otherwise it will be called non-pathogenic.
    Fits Ebola Reston just fine.
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    Last edited by Cogito Ergo Sum; August 9th, 2014 at 05:59 AM.
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    The CDC must stop re-using Q-tips in public facilities.
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    The CDC spreads diseases. Such as ebola. If you treat these patients they will increase the amounts of ebola being spread until the numbers reach an epidemic. See the "SIR" equation. There is a SIR graphing webpage. I forgot to bookmark it/save it however. Sorry.

    When you stop the disease, they start it back up.
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    vampares, this is the science part of a science forum--so either engage with credible evidence for your claims, ask intelligent questions, or don't bother to post here. Consider this a warning.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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    Find it remarkable we still know so little about the virus. For example there's still mostly speculation about what's the host species... though some variety of the fruit bat seems the most common thought.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
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    I've read some studies on colloidal silver and it's anti-viral and bacterial properties. What are your thoughts on the use of colloidal silver for prevention and possibly treatment of ebola?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliya View Post
    I've read some studies on colloidal silver and it's anti-viral and bacterial properties. What are your thoughts on the use of colloidal silver for prevention and possibly treatment of ebola?
    Mostly quackery. The FDA has initiated actions against several colloidal silver companies who claimed their products protected against bacterial and viral infections. There simply isn't any clinical evidence that it does so, and the risks of silver (argyria and allergic reactions) are significant.

    The best protection against Ebola? Avoid direct contact with people who have Ebola, avoid unprotected sex with strangers, don't share needles and wash your hands. Do all those things and it is effectively a non-issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    ..... wash your hands. ....
    Can it be effectively washed off your skin. I heard it has the ability to penetrate skin. I must find out. For if it can penetrate the skin, it could have got in before you can wash it off your skin.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    ..... wash your hands. ....
    Can it be effectively washed off your skin. I heard it has the ability to penetrate skin. I must find out. For if it can penetrate the skin, it could have got in before you can wash it off your skin.
    Sure it can be washed off, just like any other microbe. And I'm going to go with no, it won't penetrate your skin. It's a virus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mat5592 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    ..... wash your hands. ....
    Can it be effectively washed off your skin. I heard it has the ability to penetrate skin. I must find out. For if it can penetrate the skin, it could have got in before you can wash it off your skin.
    Sure it can be washed off, just like any other microbe. And I'm going to go with no, it won't penetrate your skin. It's a virus.
    Now this is what a medical doctor has said:
    12 Things You Must Know About Ebola «
    1. Ebola does not penetrate intact skin. Certainly, you don’t want to get any fluids on you, but technically, the only way they’re going to infect you is if they come in contact with mucous membranes (like in your mouth, nose, vagina, rectum) or enter through a crack in your skin.
    So how would you be sure there wasn't a crack in your skin? I've got cracks in the skin of my hands everyday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Can it be effectively washed off your skin.
    Sure; it's just a virus. From UNC/Chapel Hill:
    =========================
    Public release date: 10-Mar-2005

    Study: Soap and water work best in ridding hands of disease viruses

    CHAPEL HILL – The largest, most comprehensive study ever done comparing the effectiveness of hand hygiene products shows that nothing works better in getting rid of disease-causing viruses than simply washing one's hands with good old-fashioned soap and water.
    ============================

    I heard it has the ability to penetrate skin. I must find out. For if it can penetrate the skin, it could have got in before you can wash it off your skin.
    Viruses are dead outside of a cell. They can't actively "penetrate" anything. They have to make it to an ingress point (a wound, a mucus membrane etc) to become active at all.

    So how would you be sure there wasn't a crack in your skin? I've got cracks in the skin of my hands everyday.
    If you regularly have bloody wounds in your hands, it would be wise to not come into contact with an Ebola patient.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post

    Study: Soap and water work best in ridding hands of disease viruses

    CHAPEL HILL – The largest, most comprehensive study ever done comparing the effectiveness of hand hygiene products shows that nothing works better in getting rid of disease-causing viruses than simply washing one's hands with good old-fashioned soap and water.
    ============================

    I heard it has the ability to penetrate skin. I must find out. For if it can penetrate the skin, it could have got in before you can wash it off your skin.
    Viruses are dead outside of a cell. They can't actively "penetrate" anything. They have to make it to an ingress point (a wound, a mucus membrane etc) to become active at all. ...
    Even though a virus is dead outside of a cell it is still active in a way. I recall seeing a video on how a virus attaches to a cell surface and makes proteins mechanically move about once the contact is made. I wouldn't put it past a virus being able to make skin pull it through to the inside. I saw how filamentous this virus was and I thought maybe it has found a way through pores in the skin, sweat pores or hair follicles etc. But cracks and scratches would be very common too in working people.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlxMikKh7Jw fusion of virus coat and cell membranes.
    Last edited by Robittybob1; August 11th, 2014 at 12:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I recall seeing a video on how a virus attaches to a cell surface and makes proteins mechanically move about once the contact is made. I wouldn't put it past a virus being able to make skin pull it through to the inside.
    I think you've been watching too many science fiction movies. Nothing like that has ever been seen in medical research.
    I saw how filamentous this virus was and I thought maybe it has found a way through pores in the skin, sweat pores or hair follicles etc. But cracks and scratches would be very common too in working people.
    This sounds like the "I can get HIV from toilet seats" phobia.

    I gotta say I don't get the ebola hysteria. It's just not that much of a risk to anyone in the US. You want something to worry about? Fret over these:

    Naegleria Fowleri. A brain-eating amoeba that lives in our water; it kills 95% of its victims, and there is no cure.
    Heart disease. #1 killer in the US, and often there is no good treatment - but plenty of ways to avoid this outcome, ways that most people ignore.
    Diabetes. Again a big killer with no cure.
    HIV. It can be transferred by many of the same mechanisms as Ebola, there is no cure - AND someone you work with or see regularly probably has it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    I recall seeing a video on how a virus attaches to a cell surface and makes proteins mechanically move about once the contact is made. I wouldn't put it past a virus being able to make skin pull it through to the inside.
    I think you've been watching too many science fiction movies. Nothing like that has ever been seen in medical research.
    I saw how filamentous this virus was and I thought maybe it has found a way through pores in the skin, sweat pores or hair follicles etc. But cracks and scratches would be very common too in working people.
    Doing a bit more research on the topic of viruses penetrating intact skin and came across this article: HIV penetrates genital skin of healthy women, scientists find - Technology & Science - CBC News
    HIV penetrates genital skin of healthy women, scientists find
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    New development:
    "Ebola virus: Ethical to use untested drugs, says WHO" BBC News - Ebola virus: Ethical to use untested drugs, says WHO It has helped the two Americans but the Spanish priest has died.

    Amazing images in this composition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY1Col2ZgAI
    Last edited by Robittybob1; August 12th, 2014 at 03:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    New development:
    "Ebola virus: Ethical to use untested drugs, says WHO" BBC News - Ebola virus: Ethical to use untested drugs, says WHO It has helped the two Americans but the Spanish priest has died.

    Amazing images in this composition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY1Col2ZgAI
    Later followed by this:
    "Canada offers experimental Ebola vaccine VSV-EBOV to West Africa"
    Canada offers experimental Ebola vaccine VSV-EBOV to West Africa - Health - CBC News

    Untested vaccine to be tested on possibly frontline health workers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Oliya View Post
    I've read some studies on colloidal silver and it's anti-viral and bacterial properties. What are your thoughts on the use of colloidal silver for prevention and possibly treatment of ebola?
    Mostly quackery. The FDA has initiated actions against several colloidal silver companies who claimed their products protected against bacterial and viral infections. There simply isn't any clinical evidence that it does so, and the risks of silver (argyria and allergic reactions) are significant.

    Is this an example of what you mean: Swallowing Silver
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
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    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/wo...ws-harder.html

    Things do seem to be getting more and more desperate over there.
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    This is just about the worst thing that could happen.

    Patients reported missing after Ebola clinic attacked in Liberia

    Read more: Patients reported missing after Ebola clinic attacked in Liberia

    Initial reports suggest that upto 17 patients disappeared during the upheaval. Patients began to "mingle" with the crowd and some didn't return, Frank Sainworla, who runs Catholic radio station Veritas in Monrovia, said by phone.The Associated Press reported that bloodied mattresses were stolen by armed men at the centre in the West Point neighbourhood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    This is just about the worst thing that could happen.

    Patients reported missing after Ebola clinic attacked in Liberia

    Read more: Patients reported missing after Ebola clinic attacked in Liberia

    Initial reports suggest that upto 17 patients disappeared during the upheaval. Patients began to "mingle" with the crowd and some didn't return, Frank Sainworla, who runs Catholic radio station Veritas in Monrovia, said by phone.The Associated Press reported that bloodied mattresses were stolen by armed men at the centre in the West Point neighbourhood.
    I am guessing ebola will be weaponized now. I should buy myself a big plastic bubble, a HEPA filter, solar panel, and a pump.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    This is just about the worst thing that could happen.

    Patients reported missing after Ebola clinic attacked in Liberia

    Read more: Patients reported missing after Ebola clinic attacked in Liberia

    Initial reports suggest that upto 17 patients disappeared during the upheaval. Patients began to "mingle" with the crowd and some didn't return, Frank Sainworla, who runs Catholic radio station Veritas in Monrovia, said by phone.The Associated Press reported that bloodied mattresses were stolen by armed men at the centre in the West Point neighbourhood.
    I am guessing ebola will be weaponized now. I should buy myself a big plastic bubble, a HEPA filter, solar panel, and a pump.
    Ebola doesn't seem like such a good weapon as the incubation period can be up to 20 days. You enemy could do lots of damage to you in 20 days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    This is just about the worst thing that could happen.

    Patients reported missing after Ebola clinic attacked in Liberia

    Read more: Patients reported missing after Ebola clinic attacked in Liberia

    Initial reports suggest that upto 17 patients disappeared during the upheaval. Patients began to "mingle" with the crowd and some didn't return, Frank Sainworla, who runs Catholic radio station Veritas in Monrovia, said by phone.The Associated Press reported that bloodied mattresses were stolen by armed men at the centre in the West Point neighbourhood.
    I am guessing ebola will be weaponized now. I should buy myself a big plastic bubble, a HEPA filter, solar panel, and a pump.
    Ebola doesn't seem like such a good weapon as the incubation period can be up to 20 days. You enemy could do lots of damage to you in 20 days.
    An Ebola outbreak in almost any large city would be damaging economically. The point would be to weaken the enemy enough that they might not be able to wage a proper war.
    Usually the time to do things like that is before war is declared.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Ebola doesn't seem like such a good weapon as the incubation period can be up to 20 days. You enemy could do lots of damage to you in 20 days.
    That's a feature, not a bug, in many biological attack scenarios. You infect a population through infecting (say) 1000 people at various airports. Then wait 20 days. When the symptoms first appear the attacker seems innocent, since any assets he used are long since gone. Wait another 10 days and then attack - or better yet, just wait them out.

    However, if you were going to do that, you would almost certainly use a pathogen that had an airborne vector.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Ebola doesn't seem like such a good weapon as the incubation period can be up to 20 days. You enemy could do lots of damage to you in 20 days.
    That's a feature, not a bug, in many biological attack scenarios. You infect a population through infecting (say) 1000 people at various airports. Then wait 20 days. When the symptoms first appear the attacker seems innocent, since any assets he used are long since gone. Wait another 10 days and then attack - or better yet, just wait them out.

    However, if you were going to do that, you would almost certainly use a pathogen that had an airborne vector.
    Ebola is 19000 basepairs long. Which sounds short, but it is one of the biggest viruses out there.

    Furthermore, ebola is a slow mutation virus. It barely changes during several generations.

    Also, ebola is one of the least specific viruses out there. It simply targets every cell. This is unique about this type of virus.

    If this could be made aquatic (airborne seems worse, but is not). Every human being in the world would be at risk, almost instantly. Airborne viruses have a range of about 50 meters indoors (dehydration), and 10 meters outdoors in the sun (uv light). In water, this range is extended to about 1000 kilometers. Just saying.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    In water, this range is extended to about 1000 kilometers. Just saying.
    But wouldn't it require an awful lot of viral material to be effective after being dispersed that far?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    In water, this range is extended to about 1000 kilometers. Just saying.
    But wouldn't it require an awful lot of viral material to be effective after being dispersed that far?
    Through pipes and pumps, it just requires a little blood, or a bit of poop, a dead body, etc..

    Ebola had a pretty low infection rate, about 50-200 virus particles are needed in average to infect a person. But in 1000 kilometers it needs some very bad luck for a person to infect, yes, and the virus probably die because of the time it will take for this (weeks). However there are sea mammals who can be a temporary carrier to the disease, won't get sick, but just make us sick. Not sure if any are there now, but i believe ebola could find a host in dolphins and orca's, as they have a comparable body temperature to us. Even though they have no symptoms, they will increase the amount of ebola in the water.

    This would be worse than tiberium... Hmm
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    In water, this range is extended to about 1000 kilometers. Just saying.
    But wouldn't it require an awful lot of viral material to be effective after being dispersed that far?
    ...Ebola had a pretty low infection rate, about 50-200 virus particles are needed in average to infect a person.

    ... Hmm
    What happens if a person was only given 1 virus particle? (Well less than the infective dose.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    In water, this range is extended to about 1000 kilometers. Just saying.
    But wouldn't it require an awful lot of viral material to be effective after being dispersed that far?
    ...Ebola had a pretty low infection rate, about 50-200 virus particles are needed in average to infect a person.

    ... Hmm
    What happens if a person was only given 1 virus particle? (Well less than the infective dose.)
    I couldn't find any references that tell me what happens other than no infection will ensue. I wonder why that is? what happens to just a single virus (or is it really just a chance thing or do they they need the support?)
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    The situation in Liberia seems like Hell on Earth. What can be done? In animals we'd quarantine an area and maybe kill all the animals in that zone, but I have never heard of that being done in humans before. Over there they quarantine areas and just let the people live or die from the sound of it.
    That must be hard on the soldiers too for there would be those pleading to be let out or there would be those with money offering bribes. It won't work! It will only make it spread faster for the people will escape and they will be incubating the disease, but they aren't going to stick around.
    Last Ebola-free region of Liberia falls Last Ebola-free region of Liberia falls
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    In water, this range is extended to about 1000 kilometers. Just saying.
    But wouldn't it require an awful lot of viral material to be effective after being dispersed that far?
    ...Ebola had a pretty low infection rate, about 50-200 virus particles are needed in average to infect a person.

    ... Hmm
    What happens if a person was only given 1 virus particle? (Well less than the infective dose.)
    I couldn't find any references that tell me what happens other than no infection will ensue. I wonder why that is? what happens to just a single virus (or is it really just a chance thing or do they they need the support?)
    This is all about odds. 50-200 viruses are needed for 50% odds on infection. With less particles there will be a lower chance of infection. However, never zero odds when at least one particle enters the body.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    ...This is all about odds. 50-200 viruses are needed for 50% odds on infection. With less particles there will be a lower chance of infection. However, never zero odds when at least one particle enters the body.
    That makes sense, thanks Zwolver.
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    They are expecting up to 20,000 cases! Ebola virus could infect 20,000 before outbreak is over, World Health Organization says - The Washington Post
    The World Health Organization said on Thursday that the outbreak that has ravaged West Africa could infect 20,000 people before it is over. With 1,552 deaths recorded so far, the virus is certain to claim more lives than all of the previous Ebola outbreaks combined.
    That is serious for a high proportion of those cases will be the medical staff.
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    I would also like to correct my statement about the mutation, because it doesn't mutate slowly. Nor very fast, it mutates averagely. About 55 mutations in a month.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver View Post
    I would also like to correct my statement about the mutation, because it doesn't mutate slowly. Nor very fast, it mutates averagely. About 55 mutations in a month.
    What does that mean? There are million of viruses in any infected person. Do each of them get the same mutation? Or is that each virus changes by 55 base pairs on average each month?
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    I think they cover the normal incubation time of 2 - 21 days, with a median at 7 days. 4,5 generations of viruses each month, 55 mutations in this time, which would be about 12 - 13 mutations per generation. And each generation would consist out of at least 20 multiplication periods (infecting a cell, then multiplying, then bursting out). Which would mean it is less than 1 mutation per cycle.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    This is mainly a concern for health care workers. However, if for some reason you must interact with someone with a highly infectious disease then there are a couple key elements to your protection. Hospitals caring for these patients likely would research what is required and have a "space suit" for workers in contact with these patients. However, a "poor man's space suit" can be quickly assembled with a few items that are readily available, but often forgotten, when health care workers encounter patients that may have something infectious, before a diagnosis is made.

    Key elements in protection include:

    1. A surgical mask specifically designed to protect the wearer from inhaling an infectious agent. The standard mask is called and "N95 mask" made by 3 M. The mask comes in different sizes and should be fitted to the wearer. A standard surgical mask is not sufficient.

    2. Goggles that seal and cover the eyes and the nose. When I work in a hospital, I keep a pair with me at all times.

    3. Gloves. In general, sterile gloves are less permeable to infectious agents than non-sterile gloves. Some brands of non-sterile gloves can be penetrated by viruses. depending on the brand. I have not reviewed all these studies. If it were me, I would ask for sterile gloves since in general sterile gloves are better.

    4. A "bunny suit". These suits are available in modern hospitals and are designed to be worn over street clothes for people entering an operating room who for some reason don't want to change in to scrubs. A bunny suit covers your arms, legs, and has a hood.

    5. Shoe covers.

    The above items are easily found in most hospitals with the exception of sealing goggles that are hard to find in the middle of the night. The protection may not be as good as a "space suit"; it is way better than walking in the room with a standard surgical mask and a face shield.

    Hopefully, no one reading this will ever need to dress for this sort of interaction.
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    The Ebola compound reported here has finished a phase I safety trial and the Marburg compound has finished a few phase I studies. These are safety trials so efficacy was not studied (these were healthy human subjects participating in the trial). I have previously posted citations in this thread for studies in non-human primates that show efficacy. Sarepta Therapeutics Inc. reports they have some compound on the shelf, but it is not FDA approved so it will not be used unless the government decides to act.

    Heald AE, Iversen PL, Saoud JB, Sazani P, Charleston JS, Axtelle T, Wong M, Smith WB, Vutikullird A, Kaye E. Safety and Pharmacokinetic Profiles of Phosphorodiamidate Morpholino Oligomers with Activity against Ebola Virus and Marburg Virus: Results of Two Single Ascending Dose Studies. Antimicrob Agents Chemother. 2014 Aug 25. pii: AAC.03442-14. [Epub ahead of print]
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    The words used on CNN today "The Ebola epidemic is spiraling out of control." There was an appeal that more is done to stop this spiral getting larger.
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    Another approach: target human proteins needed by the virus for its replication. This is farther in the future; it's early research rather than an immediately deployable drug.

    Patrick Reid S, Shurtleff AC, Costantino JA, Tritsch SR, Retterer C, Spurgers KB, Bavari S. HSPA5 is an essential host factor for Ebola virus infection. Antiviral Res. 2014 Sep;109:171-4. doi: 10.1016/j.antiviral.2014.07.004. Epub 2014 Jul 11.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Moulton View Post
    Another approach: target human proteins needed by the virus for its replication. This is farther in the future; it's early research rather than an immediately deployable drug.

    Patrick Reid S, Shurtleff AC, Costantino JA, Tritsch SR, Retterer C, Spurgers KB, Bavari S. HSPA5 is an essential host factor for Ebola virus infection. Antiviral Res. 2014 Sep;109:171-4. doi: 10.1016/j.antiviral.2014.07.004. Epub 2014 Jul 11.
    Targeting our proteins sounds dangerous to me. It might kill you!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Targeting our proteins sounds dangerous to me. It might kill you!
    Studying host factors to prevent viral infection is an area of ongoing research for many viruses; my wife is working on host factor knockdown to inhibit influenza replication. Messing with some human proteins could indeed kill you, while knocking down others is tolerated. If knockdown of a particular human protein is easily survivable but infection with the virus is often not, then you have a potential therapeutic strategy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Moulton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Targeting our proteins sounds dangerous to me. It might kill you!
    Studying host factors to prevent viral infection is an area of ongoing research for many viruses; my wife is working on host factor knockdown to inhibit influenza replication. Messing with some human proteins could indeed kill you, while knocking down others is tolerated. If knockdown of a particular human protein is easily survivable but infection with the virus is often not, then you have a potential therapeutic strategy.
    Thanks It occurred to me those with a variant in that protein might have a natural immunity to Ebola.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aadhirasharma9 View Post
    Thanks for share this information with us.
    Working out ways of keeping records of contacts seems the most difficult in these crowded countries. Contact must be equivalent to physical contact not just speaking to a certain person. Remember one missed contact and the epidemic keeps going.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    What should we do? Nothing, other than perhaps continue to follow the news and make sure our representative/politicians don't get in the way of supporting the CDC and UN which tends to be the leads on help the inflicted nations cope with the disease.

    --
    I was wondering if the incubation period is slowing down....it's a pretty common evolutionary change in diseases that kill the host so fast it inhibits its ability to spread--killing slower is a reproductive advantage.
    So is a reduction in virulence (mortality rate). If the virus mutates to a form that is transmissable without killing most of the hosts it means more long term carriers.

    So, should samples be getting taken from patients before they die, and then the samples from those who survive get kept? To try and get a strain that doesn't kill? If it is mutating then there should be various mutated versions of it already out there.

    Then if we could find a strain that doesn't (usually) kill, and if there is a quarantined area that looks like it's going to be a real dying zone, maybe go into that area and preemptively infect everyone with the survivable strain?
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dan hunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    What should we do? Nothing, other than perhaps continue to follow the news and make sure our representative/politicians don't get in the way of supporting the CDC and UN which tends to be the leads on help the inflicted nations cope with the disease.

    --
    I was wondering if the incubation period is slowing down....it's a pretty common evolutionary change in diseases that kill the host so fast it inhibits its ability to spread--killing slower is a reproductive advantage.
    So is a reduction in virulence (mortality rate). If the virus mutates to a form that is transmissable without killing most of the hosts it means more long term carriers.

    So, should samples be getting taken from patients before they die, and then the samples from those who survive get kept? To try and get a strain that doesn't kill? If it is mutating then there should be various mutated versions of it already out there.

    Then if we could find a strain that doesn't (usually) kill, and if there is a quarantined area that looks like it's going to be a real dying zone, maybe go into that area and preemptively infect everyone with the survivable strain?
    The WHO would never give you permission to run this experiment. It is just too risky.
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    Obama has declared war on Ebola!
    Obama To Send 3,000 Military Forces To Fight Ebola In West Africa

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/16/obama-military-ebola-africa_n_5826864.html

    That is good news but scary news.
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    More on the US response, this from the White House.

    FACT SHEET: U.S. Response to the Ebola Epidemic in West Africa | The White House
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Moulton View Post
    All right steps , except the most obvious one that needs to be done but is missing: stop the travelers from the infected countries from entering other countries.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Moulton View Post
    All right steps , except the most obvious one that needs to be done but is missing: stop the travelers from the infected countries from entering other countries.
    With a 2 -21 day incubation period that isn't as easy as you think. You could be going down with any number of diseases when the fever first starts.
    1. Ebola virus was isolated from semen 61 days after onset of illness in a man who was infected in a laboratory. The incubation period, that is, the time interval from infection with the virus to onset of symptoms, is 2 to 21 days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Moulton View Post
    All right steps , except the most obvious one that needs to be done but is missing: stop the travelers from the infected countries from entering other countries.
    With a 2 -21 day incubation period that isn't as easy as you think. You could be going down with any number of diseases when the fever first starts.
    1. Ebola virus was isolated from semen 61 days after onset of illness in a man who was infected in a laboratory. The incubation period, that is, the time interval from infection with the virus to onset of symptoms, is 2 to 21 days.
    It is very easy, stop issuing entry visas for people originating from the infected countries.
    If there is an absolute need to travel, quarantine the entrants for 30 days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    It is very easy, stop issuing entry visas for people originating from the infected countries.
    If there is an absolute need to travel, quarantine the entrants for 30 days.
    But then there are the people visiting there from the US (including medical workers) and people who pass through those airports/cities on their way home. Short of a military quarantine you aren't going to stop people from traveling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    It is very easy, stop issuing entry visas for people originating from the infected countries.
    If there is an absolute need to travel, quarantine the entrants for 30 days.
    But then there are the people visiting there from the US (including medical workers) and people who pass through those airports/cities on their way home. Short of a military quarantine you aren't going to stop people from traveling.
    The airlines themselves have stopped flying to the worst of these countries (that was on the CNN today). But there will be other ways of leaving as you could imagine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    It is very easy, stop issuing entry visas for people originating from the infected countries.
    If there is an absolute need to travel, quarantine the entrants for 30 days.
    But then there are the people visiting there from the US (including medical workers) and people who pass through those airports/cities on their way home. Short of a military quarantine you aren't going to stop people from traveling.
    The point was that the administration "forgot" the obvious step of closing the border. As usual.
    It "compensated" by sending 3000 of our soldiers to risk their lives.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robittybob1 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    It is very easy, stop issuing entry visas for people originating from the infected countries.
    If there is an absolute need to travel, quarantine the entrants for 30 days.
    But then there are the people visiting there from the US (including medical workers) and people who pass through those airports/cities on their way home. Short of a military quarantine you aren't going to stop people from traveling.
    The airlines themselves have stopped flying to the worst of these countries (that was on the CNN today). But there will be other ways of leaving as you could imagine.
    This is a good step, the airlines showed more sense and caring than the administration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    This is a good step, the airlines showed more sense and caring than the administration.
    Which administration?

    Also "we will leave you to die" is a funny definition of caring.
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    This is a good step, the airlines showed more sense and caring than the administration.
    Which administration?

    Also "we will leave you to die" is a funny definition of caring.
    Obama, didn't you see the link announcing the measures?

    Also "we will leave you to die" is a funny definition of caring.
    Who claimed that? Are you making up stuff again?
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    >Obama, didn't you see the link announcing the measures?

    ?? Yes -

    ==================================
    Obama To Send 3,000 Military Forces To Fight Ebola In West Africa


    | By LAURAN NEERGAARD and JIM KUHNHENN

    WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama declared Tuesday that the Ebola epidemic in West Africa could threaten security around the world, and he ordered 3,000 U.S. military personnel to the region in emergency aid muscle for a crisis spiraling out of control.
    The question was whether the aid would be enough and was coming in time. An ominous World Health Organization forecast said that with so many people now spreading the virus, the number of Ebola cases could start doubling every three weeks.
    "If the outbreak is not stopped now, we could be looking at hundreds of thousands of people affected, with profound economic, political and security implications for all of us," Obama said Tuesday after briefings in Atlanta with doctors and officials from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and Emory University.

    Obama called on other countries to join in quickly supplying more health workers, equipment and money. By day's end the administration asked Congress to shift another $500 million in Pentagon money to the effort, meaning the U.S. could end up devoting $1 billion to contain the outbreak. . . . .

    White House press secretary Josh Earnest said the 3,000 troops would not provide direct care to Ebola patients. In addition to delivering the 17 treatment facilities, they will help train as many as 500 local health care workers a week. Among the other initiatives, the military will:
    —Set up a headquarters in Monrovia, Liberia, led by Maj. Gen. Darryl Williams, head of U.S. Army Africa.
    —Build a regional transportation and staging base in Senegal where the U.S. will help coordinate the contributions of other allies and partners.
    —Provide home health care kits to hundreds of thousands of households, designed to help healthy people caring for Ebola-stricken family members. That includes 50,000 that the U.S. Agency for International Development will deliver to Liberia this week.
    —Carry out a home- and community-based campaign to train local populations on how to handle exposed patients.
    ================================================== ============

    $1 billion seems to be a fair amount of caring. Indeed, it seems to be a lot more caring than "just stop flying there and let them die."
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    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post

    $1 billion seems to be a fair amount of caring. Indeed, it seems to be a lot more caring than "just stop flying there and let them die."
    I never said that, do you have difficulty comprehending the English language or you just feel compelled to make up outright lies? I said "don't let them come here, or, if they come, quarantine them until we are sure that they are disease-free".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post

    $1 billion seems to be a fair amount of caring. Indeed, it seems to be a lot more caring than "just stop flying there and let them die."
    I never said that, do you have difficulty comprehending the English language or you just feel compelled to make up outright lies? I said "don't let them come here, or, if they come, quarantine them until we are sure that they are disease-free".
    I only went back through page 2 of this thread, but I see nowhere that you express concern for the victims in West Africa. I may have missed it. If it is not there, or not obvious, then billvon's interpretation of your posts is not unreasonable.

    That would tend to suggest the difficulty lies more with your skill at writing unambiguous prose, than in billvon's ability to understand it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by billvon View Post

    $1 billion seems to be a fair amount of caring. Indeed, it seems to be a lot more caring than "just stop flying there and let them die."
    I never said that, do you have difficulty comprehending the English language or you just feel compelled to make up outright lies? I said "don't let them come here, or, if they come, quarantine them until we are sure that they are disease-free".
    I only went back through page 2 of this thread, but I see nowhere that you express concern for the victims in West Africa.
    Not expressing concern about the victims of West Africa doesn't mean that I said "just don't fly there and let them die". I am quite sure you understand the difference.
    My posts are a criticism directed at the Obama administration for not do the most basic thing to protect the US population from spreading the virus: quarantine the incoming travelers.

    That would tend to suggest the difficulty lies more with your skill at writing unambiguous prose, than in billvon's ability to understand it.
    I suggest that you re-read my posts in light of the above explanation. I do not see anything ambiguous in my writing, I do see twisting of my words. Could this be because I dared to criticize the obama administration for being inept and missing the most basic step in case of an epidemic in order to protect the US citizens?
    Let me be crystal clear, such there is no possibility of further twisting my words: the administration took a lot of very good steps in helping contain the epidemic and helping the victims. I applaud this. The administration did not do enough to protect the people of the US.
    Last edited by Howard Roark; September 17th, 2014 at 09:53 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    I suggest that you re-read my posts in light of the above explanation. I do not see anything ambiguous in my writing, I do see twisting of my words. Could this be because I dared to criticize the obama administration for being inept and missing the most basic step in case of an epidemic in order to protect the US citizens?
    No, it's because you posted nonsensical claims.

    The administration is spending up to $1 billion to care for victims and stop the disease - and that directly benefits US citizens. That equates to caring by any sane definition of the word.

    The airlines decided to just not deal with the problem and hope it goes away. That's their right (they are, after all, only airlines, and not experts in infectious disease) but also is indicative of NOT caring, by any sane definition of the word.

    Is this just the standard "I hate Obama" thing? If so, wrong forum.

    Let me be crystal clear, such there is no possibility of further twisting my words: the administration took a lot of very good steps in helping contain the epidemic and helping the victims. I applaud this. The administration did not do enough to protect the people of the US.
    If you are now changing your claim to "they did not do enough to protect the people of the US" OK. What should they have done?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Roark View Post
    [I suggest that you re-read my posts in light of the above explanation. I do not see anything ambiguous in my writing, I do see twisting of my words. Could this be because I dared to criticize the obama administration for being inept and missing the most basic step in case of an epidemic in order to protect the US citizens?
    Let me be crystal clear, such there is no possibility of further twisting my words: the administration took a lot of very good steps in helping contain the epidemic and helping the victims. I applaud this. The administration did not do enough to protect the people of the US.
    I have reread them. Here they are:

    All right steps , except the most obvious one that needs to be done but is missing: stop the travelers from the infected countries from entering other countries.

    It is very easy, stop issuing entry visas for people originating from the infected countries.

    If there is an absolute need to travel, quarantine the entrants for 30 days

    The point was that the administration "forgot" the obvious step of closing the border. As usual.
    It "compensated" by sending 3000 of our soldiers to risk their lives.

    This is a good step, the airlines showed more sense and caring than the administration

    Obama, didn't you see the link announcing the measures?
    Also "we will leave you to die" is a funny definition of caring.
    Who claimed that? Are you making up stuff again?

    I never said that, do you have difficulty comprehending the English language or you just feel compelled to make up outright lies? I said "don't let them come here, or, if they come, quarantine them until we are sure that they are disease-free".


    Combined with your last emphatic statement all I see is concern for the welfare of the people of the US. I see no evidence of any concern, at all, for the plight of the peoples of West Africa. I think that is what billvon was picking up on. I actually thought it was a misunderstanding on my part. Now, having read everything again, I repeat - I find no evidence in any of your posts that you give a damn about the current victims. If you do give a damn, then you actually do need to improve your writing skills.
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